2025 NBA Draft Thread

[B Sox]

I saw some dude on youtube calm he is hearing the Wiz want to draft Lamelo Ball .

I'm sure there are a bunch of teams that likely won't be in the top 3 that want to draft him

 

[B Sox]

Hollinger wrote this about Precious and Paul Reed last month:

Hollinger: Five takes on NBA Draft prospects where I’m against the consensus

In comparing his evaluation of prospects to where they are ranked by the most prominent draftologists, Hollinger noticed some differences.

theathletic.com

So this basically sounds like the Cole Anthony vs Kira Lewis conundrum. Similar skill sets, one has actually posted better numbers but seems to be getting dinged on mocks for being a class ahead, even though he's almost a full year younger age-wise.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Prototypical PFs def the big busts lately.

Probably just the nature of being a pure PF.

Being a pure PF it usually means you aren't good enough offensively to play 3 and you aren't good enough defensively to play C.

High bust potential cause you might not be good enough to play any position.

 

[Platinum State]

I dont want Lamelo's bum *** anywhere near my Warriors

 

[Arthur Shelby]

Isaiah Stewart projected in the 20's & Vernon Carey Jr 2nd round


Jahlil Okafor hit the finally lick

 

[pmatic]

I thought Thomas Robinson was going to be the goods. I was rooting for him after his family situation.

 

[buc em]

I thought Thomas Robinson was going to be the goods. I was rooting for him after his family situation.

“Throb” had be one of the worst nicknames in the history of sports

 

[pmatic]

I don't know anyone that called him that besides the Kings fans on here back then and they did it in jest.

 

[ballinsam23]

Tyrese is gonna be a solid long term pro. Gives me Andre Miller, Jarret Jack, Jeff Teague type vibes. In terms of long term starting point guards that aren’t necessarily all star level talent but get the job done and stick around the league.

 

[jayt1202]

Isaiah Stewart projected in the 20's & Vernon Carey Jr 2nd round


Jahlil Okafor hit the finally lick

Watching Stewart during his time with UW he'll definitely have to turn into a stretch 4 if he wants long term success in the league. As has been said earlier, the PF's/C's who dominated in the 90's-00's are all but nonexistent in today's game. If Stewart develops a decent 3pt shot he could have a lengthy career though, he has a high bball IQ.

 

[pmatic]

Ethan Strauss on James Wiseman:

2020 NBA Draft: A word of warning on James Wiseman

Below is a yearly list of the top big men entering college ball, as determined by the Recruiting Services Consensus Index (the overall ranking is listed in parenthesis).

2006: Greg Oden (1)
2007: J.J. Hickson (9)
2008: Samardo Samuels (4)
2009: Derrick Favors (1)
2010: Enes Kanter (7)
2011: Anthony Davis (1)
2012: Nerlens Noel (1)
2013: Dakari Johnson (9)
2014: Jahlil Okafor (1)
2015: Skal Labissiere (2)
2016: Harry Giles (1)
2017: Marvin Bagley (1)
2018: Bol Bol (6)
2019: James Wiseman (1)

I stopped at Greg Oden’s year, mostly because a) I have to stop somewhere and b) “Oden over Kevin Durant” represents a different era, draft-wise. Whatever the merits of both prospects back then, I doubt that, if such a draft happened today, overwhelming consensus would have favored the elite big over the elite wing. In the last 10 years or so we’ve seen big men get marginalized, relative to wings, who’ve been elevated.

And yet, bigs still have a way of sailing to the very top of high school prospect rankings, eight of the last 14 classes to be specific. Perhaps this phenomenon can be chalked up to how big-man dominance is more easily achieved and thus more obvious at the lower levels. Somehow, we have maintained this incongruity where centers have mattered less and less in the NBA but remain top-ranked coming out of high school. Bigs, theoretically easy to project because “you can’t teach size,” aren’t such sure bets in the modern league, apparently. On our list, only Anthony Davis stands out as the true franchise-changing impact player. That probably has a lot to do with Davis coming up as a point guard who happened to have a late growth spurt. Traditional big men who came up as traditional big men haven’t been setting the league on fire.

This recent track record cuts against a popular notion in NBA circles that James Wisemen is the “safest” choice of the 2020 NBA Draft. Sure, it might seem safe to go with the most-touted prospect with the most impressive physical profile. This is probably why the (briefly) Memphis big man is probably the name most commonly linked to the Warriors, though their draft board is far from set, no matter what you might read. It makes some sense. In the absence of certainty, go with the athletic 7-footer who can crush Steph Curry lobs with his 7-6 wingspan, or so the thinking goes.

You have to wonder whether, if we had more of a track record, Wiseman would seem as safe a bet. I’m quoting the RSCI ranking on Wiseman because we don’t have much else. He played three college games this season and only one was against a real team. In that game, against Oregon, he presented a confusing assessment for scouts. Wiseman was mostly a nonfactor for 28 minutes of action, getting benched due to foul trouble after being continually bullied by 6-8 defenders. Then he turned it on after scoring his first field goal with 11:14 to go in the second half.



Wiseman would finish that game with 14 points and 12 rebounds, a respectable stat line. Defensively, he was a factor. Though he only finished with one block, his length caused problems for Oregon throughout.



Memphis likes to switch screens and Wiseman flashed some capability there. This isn’t the best technique, but his mobility at this size is impressive.



When Wiseman got rolling, he showed some shooting touch as well. While his high school free-throw stats don’t presage high-level shooting, he can flash a nice little Patrick Ewing fadeaway from midrange.



Though he missed his 3-point attempt, it was a fairly fluid take, albeit off balance.



Wiseman’s best quality on offense came to the fore in that second half as well. He enjoys and excels at crashing the rim on offensive rebounds. Rare is the big who can cover so much ground at his size.

https://youtu.be/GQjxi1fGjs4

And yet, despite these positives, it was still a troubling performance for a “high floor” prospect. Even with the caveat that he’s a teenager who was playing under considerable scrutiny, his offensive game was disappointingly muted. Again and again, he got outfought by smaller players for possession of passes.

https://youtu.be/Iow7L-O0-TY

You see it on inbounds passes.

https://youtu.be/IBkDrtwOa0c

And you see it on basic entry passes.

https://youtu.be/vnvjv2hXnXI

Wiseman doesn’t get cited for turnovers on these possessions, but his aversion to contact surely factored into how they happened. It’s definitely what you don’t want to see if you’re counting on a prospect to assert himself against bigger, stronger and more skilled defenders at the next level. While Wiseman has this incredible size/athleticism advantage, it’s so rarely leveraged. You see these bizarre instances where Wiseman has an advantageous position against a smaller guy, but fades away for no reason.

https://youtu.be/cBsTIa4nbTs

This up-and-down turnover was perhaps the worst instance.

https://youtu.be/m8G8Tg-Tyzs

The concerning plays might be easy to dismiss if Wiseman was an outright killer in high school. Instead, he was far less productive on the Nike EYBL circuit than, say, Sacramento Kings’ big man Marvin Bagley.

• Bagley’s 2017 EYBL stats: 15 games played, 25.8 points per game, 14.9 boards, 3.1 blocks, 54.6 percent from the field.

• Wiseman’s 2018 Nike EYBL stats: 16 games played, 15.0 points per game, 6.8 boards, 1.8 blocks, 48.7 percent from the field.

This is a tricky draft, without a clear consensus No. 1 and every 2020 prospect has flaws worth nothing. Also, Wiseman has reportedly gotten into better shape over the last year and he may well be a late bloomer. I’m certainly not writing off a prospect whose physical profile evokes comparisons to a young David Robinson.

But I’m also not buying the “safe” pick thesis. The idea that physically dominant bigs are easy to project “safe” selections seems fit for another era. In this one, where big men are played off the floor more than ever before, bigs might present less upside and more downside. If James Wiseman completely fulfills his potential, forget I said anything. Those are big “ifs” going forward though, maybe even bigger than the young center’s massive frame.

2020 NBA Draft: A word of warning on James Wiseman

In a league that is trending away from true centers, taking Wiseman with a high pick has high risk and not as much upside as in the past.

theathletic.com

 

[pums]

Thoughts on Jay Scrub?

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Ethan Strauss on James Wiseman:

2020 NBA Draft: A word of warning on James Wiseman

In a league that is trending away from true centers, taking Wiseman with a high pick has high risk and not as much upside as in the past.

theathletic.com

lol 6.8 boards as a 7 foot monster in EYBL is so bonkers.

I wouldn't draft him on that alone.


Reminds me or Perry Jones, if you are a future NBA star no way no how you shouldn't hit high school and AAU circuits like a nuclear bomb.

it should be pure domination, anything less is a giant red flag.

 

[pmatic]

Quarantine Randomness: Saddiq Bey might be the sleeper to watch for the Warriors

We know the Warriors like Villanova guys. Jay Wright’s program tends to produce players who are used to operating in a system. Obviously, the Warriors have Eric Paschall as the star of their draft crop last year. They also liked Omari Spellman, though he became a casualty of trade-deadline maneuvering.

From what I’m hearing, they also have an eye on this year’s top Villanova product, Saddiq Bey.

Bey isn’t getting much hype, so selecting him in the top five would feel pretty high. But the Warriors could surprise everyone by taking him there or trading down, depending on where they land in the draft lottery, and taking Bey a little lower.

It makes sense why they’d want Bey. He is a 20-year-old, 6-foot-8, 216-pound forward who shot 45 percent from 3 this past season and is still expected to make his biggest impact on the defensive end. He sounds like a Warrior dream: a wing player with good size who can shoot it and play strong defense.

Bey’s shooting took a noticeable jump from year to year. As a freshman, he shot 37.4 percent from 3 — which is good — and 64.4 percent from the free-throw line. As a sophomore, he made 79 of 175 3-pointers and improved to 76.9 percent from the free-throw line. He leaves Villanova with a 59.4 true shooting percentage. For comparison, Jordan Poole had a 57.6 true shooting percentage at Michigan. Stephen Curry, for the other end of the spectrum, left Davidson with a 62.0 true shooting percentage.

That he hasn’t been linked with the Warriors, who, if the season ended today, would be guaranteed a top-five pick, is a matter of how much 3-and-D players are valued. Bey doesn’t seem to have the upside that makes draft people lose their minds. The star-power aura may not be there like it is for Georgia’s Anthony Edwards or LaMelo Ball, who played in Australia this season. But Bey has the tools the Warriors covet. And who knows? Nobody thought Paschall had star power in the 2019 draft.

The shooting is important because it makes Bey a two-way player. He’s got a lot of potential on defense. It’s not just his size but his understanding of it. He’s got good instincts and reads plays well. He’s got a good pedigree. An example of his defensive versatility came against Marquette. Bey started the game on Markus Howard — a 5-11 guard and one of the nation’s top scorers — and defended Howard for several stretches.

Losing Kevin Durant, Andre Iguodala and Shaun Livingston last offseason left the Warriors light on defensive stoppers at the wing. Klay Thompson will be back next season and maybe they’ll re-sign Glenn Robinson III. But neither of them are as big as Bey. He has the potential to give the Warriors even more defensive versatility.

Right now, the Warriors’ best power forwards are better at playing center than small forward (Draymond Green, Kevon Looney, Paschall), and their small forwards don’t do too well going big (Damion Lee, Poole). Andrew Wiggins is probably the most capable, actually, but it’s not his strength defensively. So even though the Warriors have a lot of forwards, Bey would give them something they don’t have.

Is that worth taking him in the top five? The best value move is getting down further in the top 10 to take him. That would be an incredible value as Bey is largely slept on. But if the Warriors they love him, why not?

Quarantine Randomness: Saddiq Bey might be the sleeper to watch for the Warriors

We have a new star in Justin Gaethje, who put on the performance of his life in UFC 249; plus a Mother's Day to remember.

theathletic.com

 

[pmatic]

 

[B Sox]

Said Cole Anthony is the Shabazz Muhammad of this draft. Yikes.

 

[pmatic]

 

[B Sox]

I think Hollinger has sold me on Paul Reed. Feel like his profile is very similar to Okongwu's, but he's a year and a half older.

 

[pmatic]

I used to student-teach sixth grade years ago and one of my kids was really good at basketball. Got good enough to get recruited and he was a freshman this past season on DePaul with Reed. I feel old.

 

[pmatic]

 

[pmatic]

1. LaMelo Ball
2. Anthony Edwards
3. Killian Hayes
4. Onyeka Okongwu
5. Obi Toppin
6. Tyrese Haliburton
7. Devin Vassell
8. James Wiseman
9. Isaac Okoro
10. Kira Lewis
11. Aaron Nesmith
12. Paul Reed
13. Aleksej Pokusevski
14. Patrick Williams
15. Devon Dotson
16. Deni Avdija
17. Saddiq Bey
18. Cole Anthony
19. Theo Maledon
20. Precious Achiuwa

Three sleepers
21. Elijah Hughes
22. Malachi Flynn
23. Desmond Bane

 

[pmatic]

Strauss:

2020 NBA Draft: Buying stock in USC big Onyeka Okongwu

I like USC’s Onyeka Okongwu. He’s on my top-five prospects list, despite my aversion to taking a center with a high pick. At the very least, he fits the drafting criteria I’ve laid out in which efficient production is respected over other considerations. He’s been impressively productive (16.21 points on 10.14 shots, 2.71 blocks, 1.21 steals) and is still a teenager.

He’s also a confusing mix of qualities. The more I look, the trickier Okongwu is to completely figure out. Is he a throwback post-up center? Or is he a rim runner who guards positions 1 through 5? Is he a future 3-point threat, as his form and free-throw percentage might indicate? Or is he simply not going to hoist, given that he attempted a mere three shots from deep in the halfcourt in 2019-20?

One thing about Okongwu is certain: He plays hard. Even this comes with a caveat, though. In talks I’ve had with bored, quarantined NBA coaches who’ve done the scouting, questions of conditioning are raised. In their view, Okongwu tends to go all out until he burns out, like a marathoner who starts a race sprinting. Maybe this is indicative of some untapped potential. If Okongwu can work out in an NBA setting, then perhaps he’ll be more capable of sustaining his fire. Speaking of workouts and NBA settings, I’ve heard coaches lament how they wish they could work out the young USC big as part of the draft process. He shot 72 percent from the foul line and flashed a respectable set shot. Teams would like to see Okongwu toss up a few 3-pointers in person to gauge if he legitimately could expand his range. Of course, this can’t happen, at least for now.

Without that desired piece of information, teams will rely on comparisons, such as the oft-made one to Bam Adebayo, another undersized center who’s made a quick star turn in the NBA. There’s merit to that comp, but Bam was a sleeker athlete. Adebayo could handle and move like a guard; Okongwu killed college teams while looking a little like a 1990s big. So without further ado, here are some clips that capture the kind of player Okongwu is, in all his paradoxical upside glory.

Perhaps you’ve heard of Okongwu’s “motor.” Here’s what people mean by that.



And here.



And here.



Now, what you might notice about these last two offensive rebounds is how clever Okongwu is about getting them. More of his offensive boards than I would have expected come below the rim. Rather than attempting to soar above the fray, Okongwu waits a bit and pokes the ball up to himself like a volleyball set up.

From those clips, you would think that Okongwu, at 6-foot-9 and with a listed wingspan of 7-foot-1, has a shuffling Zach Randolph-style game, where he’s learned skills to overcome a lack of athleticism. Except, Okongwu often looks really athletic, especially when executing a speedy pick-and-roll for a high-flying lob.

He might not be Adebayo at the rim, but it’s clear this guy has some physical gifts of his own.



When the lob doesn’t quite work, that’s when you see Okongwu’s finesse quickly rectify the situation. Here, he quickly converts an underthrown pass into an off-hand layup.



One reason I have faith in how Okongwu’s game will translate is his extreme comfort with that left hand. You can watch entire games of this kid and not know which hand he favors. While post-ups have fallen out of fashion in the pros, I can see Okongwu getting NBA buckets with his. He gets to his shot so quickly and can’t be played in either direction. This is a representative example: catch, one dribble, smooth off-hand hook finish.

https://youtu.be/o5MXboZOtqI

On the film, you will not find much in the way of playmaking from Okongwu. Sure, you’ll see him make the smart kick-out pass; he doesn’t play with blinders. He just lacks the handle to do more than that, in most situations. This clip is illustrative of Okongwu, perimeter playmaker. The possession is a mess and his dribbling doesn’t quite work, but Okongwu powers through the chaos and finishes, yet again, with his left.

https://youtu.be/kdEkjWoHOxw

Of course, offense might not be the main reason for drafting Okongwu. Teams are intrigued by his ability to be a rangy, switching defender. He switches well and can deftly get around traffic to recover a block at the rim.

He’s also a demon in passing lanes, playing them with a perimeter player’s instincts.

https://youtu.be/IdDqaWEx5Ug

Plays like that have NBA teams speculating on whether Okongwu can operate as a power forward, turbocharging a defense alongside a bigger center. That possibility will likely be determined by what Okongwu does on offense, from the perimeter. If you’re, say, the Warriors, you’d like to know whether Okongwu can stretch the floor when paired with Draymond Green. According to Okongwu, he could always shoot but deferred to USC’s system wherein he operated as a classic big. That deference appeared to be pretty intense. Okongwu looked most natural on his shots when he absolutely had to take them, contested, under shot-clock pressure.

https://youtu.be/XIchcp_6-c0

It’s a set shot, something of a hybrid between Charles Oakley and Joel Embiid, but it looks pretty pure here.

https://youtu.be/b4E-Rif1c3w

Shooting is Okongwu’s big swing skill, and there’s a lot of reason to bet on optimism here. He already displays uncommon touch in the paint, and his shot doesn’t look broken from outside. He shoots 72 percent from the line, which is good for a big man.

All in all, I just don’t think Okongwu’s productivity can be dismissed as something that’s only possible within the college game. Yes, he’s a post-up killer in a world that increasingly doesn’t need post-ups, but he gets his baskets quickly enough to keep a 24-second shot clock at bay. Also, he runs a beautiful pick-and-roll and shows promise as a shooter. Teams will rank him lower than James Wiseman because Wiseman has an obvious role as a center with archetypal size. Okongwu is something different, something a bit harder to project, but I’m buying the possibility. The combination of efficiency, motor and skill cannot be denied in a draft with so many question marks. Okongwu might be a hard prospect to figure out right now, but in due time, it could be NBA opponents that are bedeviled by the young big man.

2020 NBA Draft: Buying stock in USC big Onyeka Okongwu

He can look at times like a throwback post-up center, but the USC big shows a promise with his uncommon shooting touch in the paint.

theathletic.com

 

[pmatic]

 

[VARNELL HILL]

Strauss:

2020 NBA Draft: Buying stock in USC big Onyeka Okongwu

He can look at times like a throwback post-up center, but the USC big shows a promise with his uncommon shooting touch in the paint.

theathletic.com

Him and Rui gon be a problem in DC

 

[B Sox]

They threw out the name Glen Rice when making a comp for Aaron Nesmith. Thought that was interesting. While I definitely don't see him reaching Glen Rice's peak, I do see a world where he could potentially be a really high level role guy like Lakers Glen Rice.

Ideally playing alongside multiple playmakers where his role is to run around off screens, catch and shoot, and help team spacing. Like 75% of his attempts would be 3s.

Issue with him is that I don't think any of us really know how "real" his shooting actually is. Like, if he's not actually a 40+ percent 3pt shooter, he's not really bringing much else to the table. If he's closer to a slightly above average shooter, I think you're taking guys like Okoro/Vassell/Bey all before him quite easily.