dacomeup
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Was shocked when you were saying you didn’t think he could stick because he couldn’t defend a week ago. This kid is a clear NBA player
2025 NBA Draft Thread
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by addict4sneakers,
- Start date
Was shocked when you were saying you didn’t think he could stick because he couldn’t defend a week ago. This kid is a clear NBA player
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I mean Im.just being upfront about the risk factors. it's possible he just can't defend well enough, we won't know for sure until he plays NBA games.
But I'm a big fan of his.
I had him pre draft as my favorite later round sleeper.
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Yeah Kenny Lofton right now is probably better than 2/3 of the players drafted
Sheesh, for some reason I thought he was 22, just checked dudes 19
Just gotta stay away from sugar
Sheesh, for some reason I thought he was 22, just checked dudes 19
Just gotta stay away from sugar
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When you’re 300 you can lose a lb a day easily, they gotta put him on keto for 2 months, literally might be the difference bte lifr changing money and opportunity in the nba or getting a passport. Need you to lose 30 lbs
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elpablo21
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Over the course of SL Wiseman's hands seem better...I think?
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Aldi Chet
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Hope the Kings actually hit with Keegan, they drafted too many 4s that busted
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If Chet and Jabari can't score, ROY is def in Murray's sights
Dude is composed, patient and crafty as hell. His dribble package is better than I thought too, albeit it was SL
Mathurin seem like a pro scorer already too, just like Duarte looked like too
Dude is composed, patient and crafty as hell. His dribble package is better than I thought too, albeit it was SL
Mathurin seem like a pro scorer already too, just like Duarte looked like too
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Should be a seamless fit with Sabonis too, not sure about the defense though
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2022 NBA summer league superlatives: MVP, best rookie and others who stood out in Las Vegas
With the Portland Trail Blazers winning the 2022 Las Vegas summer league title over the New York Knicks on Sunday, 85-77, another showcase for rookies, developing young players and free agents is in the books. Who stood out during the NBA's three summer leagues across California, Utah and Nevada?
This year's summer games, the first played in the typical July time slot since 2019, featured a number of matchups between the top picks of last month's NBA draft. Because the top four picks were all big men, they defended each other head-to-head, giving us a good first look at how their games will translate to the NBA.
In addition to the rookies, this year's summer action saw former No. 2 pick James Wiseman of the Golden State Warriors make his return to the court after recovery from a meniscus repair limited him to a brief rehab stint in the G League during the 2021-22 season.
And, as always, former college stars who haven't yet found a home in the NBA made their bid for a roster spot with their performances in front of strong crowds in San Francisco, Salt Lake City and Las Vegas. Let's take a look at some of the highlights.
Best game: Orlando Magic-Sacramento Kings
In a matchup between two of the teams with top-four picks, the Magic and Kings played a thriller on the first Saturday of summer league. Down 18 midway through the fourth quarter, Sacramento still appeared hopelessly behind down six with 6.7 seconds remaining before chaos struck. Center Neemias Queta made a 3, one of two all summer, and the Kings stole the ensuing inbound pass. Murray dribbled behind the 3-point line to make a tying 3 and force overtime.
After Devin Cannady made three pressure free throws in the final seconds of OT to tie it again, the two-minute extra session ended with Cannady just missing a heave from beyond half court that would have won it. That sent us to sudden death, where Orlando successfully challenged a shooting foul called on Paolo Banchero and got the ball back. Banchero then found Emanuel Terry for the walk-off layup to the crowd's delight.
MVP: Keegan Murray, Sacramento Kings
Honorable mention: Chet Holmgren, Oklahoma City Thunder
Although we saw exciting moments from all of the top picks in this year's draft, as I broke down on YouTube last week, Holmgren and Murray stood out as two of the four most valuable rookies this summer by my wins above replacement player (WARP) metric. Both played an extended schedule, with Murray's Kings in the California Classic and Holmgren's Thunder at the Salt Lake City summer league before arriving in Vegas. That separated them from No. 1 pick Banchero, who played well but was shut down after two games.
Murray (.649) and Holmgren (.631) both scored efficiently. Murray managed that while also finishing plays at a high rate (26.5% usage; Holmgren was at 21%) thanks to 41% 3-point shooting on seven-plus attempts per game. Holmgren hit 42% of his 3s while dominating the paint defensively. An impressive summer debut doesn't always translate to the regular season, but it's an encouraging sign for Murray and Holmgren, as well as Banchero.
Most surprising rookie: Jalen Williams, Oklahoma City Thunder
Honorable mention: Keon Ellis, Sacramento Kings; Jabari Walker, Portland Trail Blazers
Williams, the No. 12 overall pick, proved a nice wing complement to Holmgren and 2021 lottery pick Josh Giddey, doing a little of everything. The bouncy Williams finished strong above the rim but also knocked down five 3-pointers in 13 attempts and looked advanced defensively.
The next-to-last pick by the Blazers, Walker earned a guaranteed contract for this season (per ESPN's Bobby Marks) by shooting 63% from the field, including 6-of-14 beyond the arc. Walker pulled down an impressive 16.4 rebounds per 40 minutes as Portland won the inaugural summer league championship rings. Ellis, who signed a two-way deal with the Sacramento Kings after going undrafted, went 15-of-34 on 3s and averaged two steals per game.
Most disappointing injury: E.J. Liddell, New Orleans Pelicans
Honorable mention: Dyson Daniels, New Orleans Pelicans; Jaden Ivey, Detroit Pistons; Shaedon Sharpe, Portland Trail Blazers
From a scouting standpoint, it was a bummer to see three lottery picks sidelined by injuries early in the schedule. Sharpe suffered a small labral tear in his left shoulder six minutes into his first game action in a year after sitting out at Kentucky, while Daniels and Ivey both dealt with ankle sprains. Ivey's came after he dominated the first five minutes of his second game following a strong debut.
Still, none of those injuries should affect players for training camp. Unfortunately, that's not the case for Liddell, the No. 41 pick out of Ohio State. An ACL tear sustained in the Pelicans' second game will likely cost Liddell, who was unsigned, his first professional campaign. Here's hoping he's able to return to the court in time for next year's summer league.
Slowest-starting rookie: Johnny Davis, Washington Wizards
At Wisconsin, Davis averaged nearly 20 PPG with strong shot-making on a difficult diet of attempts. That skill set hasn't always carried over well to the NBA and we saw Davis struggle to create easy opportunities in three games in Las Vegas while playing through back tightness. He shot 5-of-20 (25%) on 2-pointers and generated just six total free throws after averaging 6.3 per game in college. Davis may have to prepare to play more of an off-ball role early in his NBA career. Hopefully Davis can get to 100% in time for training camp.
Best veteran: Trey Murphy III, New Orleans Pelicans
Honorable mention: Quentin Grimes, New York Knicks; Isaiah Joe, Philadelphia 76ers; Cam Thomas, Brooklyn Nets
Murphy played just two games after totaling 53 points on 17-of-34 shooting in two games. By comparison to the other high-usage second-year players, including Grimes and Thomas, Murphy was more efficient and did it without exceptional 3-point accuracy. In fact, he went 1-of-9 from beyond the arc in his first game but compensated with 8-of-8 foul shooting and four steals. When Murphy knocked down the 3 in his second game, he rang up 30 points.
Thomas finished summer league averaging 20 points per game, scoring effortlessly, and showed improved playmaking by handing out 3.8 APG. Grimes excelled at both ends as the leader of a veteran-laden group (including Myles McBride and Jericho Sims) that reached the title game. And Joe, heading into his third year with the Sixers, shot better than 50% from 3-point range (20-of-3
.
Most intriguing veteran: James Wiseman, Golden State Warriors
All eyes were on Wiseman's return to the court for the Warriors' second game in Las Vegas. He came out looking like a player eager for game action after playing sparingly in the last 15 months. Wiseman had a dunk, a 3 and a block within the first two minutes he played. After that burst, Wiseman's inevitable lack of game conditioning played a factor in his up-and-down play. Still, he had 42 points, 22 rebounds and 8 blocks in just 80 minutes, getting valuable development time after so long away from the court.
Best free agent: Jeff Dowtin, Toronto Raptors
Honorable mention: Darius Days, San Antonio Spurs; Mfiondu Kabengele, Boston Celtics; Tommy Kuhse, Orlando Magic
Dowtin, who saw action with three teams last season, was impressive playing for the summer Raptors. He averaged 16 PPG and 4.3 APG while shooting 57% from the field. If Dowtin can become a more consistent 3-point threat (he went 4-of-11), there's a place for him in the league.
Days earned a reported two-way deal with the Miami Heat by starring for the Spurs after going undrafted, putting up 41 points and 30 rebounds in just 66 minutes and making six 3s. Miami's development program could be ideal for Days. Former first-round pick Kabengele picked up a two-way contract with the Celtics, averaging 14.8 PPG, 8.2 RPG and 2.2 BPG for them. Undrafted Saint Mary's star Kuhse didn't play until Orlando's third game but used his old-school craft to excel thereafter, including a 25-point effort on 11-of-15 shooting against the Knicks.
Most fun to watch: Kenny Lofton Jr., Memphis Grizzlies
Honorable mention: Mac McClung, Los Angeles Lakers; Josh Minott, Minnesota Timberwolves
Akin to 1990s center Oliver Miller, Lofton has more skill and creativity than the typical player of his size. Signed to a two-way contract by the Grizzlies after going undrafted, Lofton didn't back down against friend and former USA Basketball teammate Holmgren in a head-to-head matchup. Playing into Holmgren's body, Lofton found room to score 19 points.
After finishing last season on a two-way contract with the Lakers and playing for them in the California Classic, McClung joined the Warriors in Las Vegas and dazzled fans with his playmaking and finishing. Minott's above-the-rim finishes and blocks made him a must-watch and earned him a full NBA deal as a second-round pick.
Biggest fan favorite (tie): Tacko Fall, Utah Jazz; Zavier Simpson, Orlando Magic
The Jazz supplemented a home team light on NBA players with the ever-popular 7-foot-6 Fall, which led to disappointment when he was in street clothes for Utah's second game in Salt Lake City. Hoping to see him play, fans chanted Fall's name to no avail.
As part of a timeout competition during the opening game in Las Vegas, which featured top-three picks Banchero and Jabari Smith Jr., a fan said he was most excited to see "hook shot guy" -- that being the 6-foot Simpson, who actually goes by the nickname "Captain Hook" by virtue of his unorthodox finishing style. Beyond the hooks, Simpson also came up with 10 steals, including multiple times picking Holmgren clean.
With the Portland Trail Blazers winning the 2022 Las Vegas summer league title over the New York Knicks on Sunday, 85-77, another showcase for rookies, developing young players and free agents is in the books. Who stood out during the NBA's three summer leagues across California, Utah and Nevada?
This year's summer games, the first played in the typical July time slot since 2019, featured a number of matchups between the top picks of last month's NBA draft. Because the top four picks were all big men, they defended each other head-to-head, giving us a good first look at how their games will translate to the NBA.
In addition to the rookies, this year's summer action saw former No. 2 pick James Wiseman of the Golden State Warriors make his return to the court after recovery from a meniscus repair limited him to a brief rehab stint in the G League during the 2021-22 season.
And, as always, former college stars who haven't yet found a home in the NBA made their bid for a roster spot with their performances in front of strong crowds in San Francisco, Salt Lake City and Las Vegas. Let's take a look at some of the highlights.
Best game: Orlando Magic-Sacramento Kings
In a matchup between two of the teams with top-four picks, the Magic and Kings played a thriller on the first Saturday of summer league. Down 18 midway through the fourth quarter, Sacramento still appeared hopelessly behind down six with 6.7 seconds remaining before chaos struck. Center Neemias Queta made a 3, one of two all summer, and the Kings stole the ensuing inbound pass. Murray dribbled behind the 3-point line to make a tying 3 and force overtime.
After Devin Cannady made three pressure free throws in the final seconds of OT to tie it again, the two-minute extra session ended with Cannady just missing a heave from beyond half court that would have won it. That sent us to sudden death, where Orlando successfully challenged a shooting foul called on Paolo Banchero and got the ball back. Banchero then found Emanuel Terry for the walk-off layup to the crowd's delight.
MVP: Keegan Murray, Sacramento Kings
Honorable mention: Chet Holmgren, Oklahoma City Thunder
Although we saw exciting moments from all of the top picks in this year's draft, as I broke down on YouTube last week, Holmgren and Murray stood out as two of the four most valuable rookies this summer by my wins above replacement player (WARP) metric. Both played an extended schedule, with Murray's Kings in the California Classic and Holmgren's Thunder at the Salt Lake City summer league before arriving in Vegas. That separated them from No. 1 pick Banchero, who played well but was shut down after two games.
Murray (.649) and Holmgren (.631) both scored efficiently. Murray managed that while also finishing plays at a high rate (26.5% usage; Holmgren was at 21%) thanks to 41% 3-point shooting on seven-plus attempts per game. Holmgren hit 42% of his 3s while dominating the paint defensively. An impressive summer debut doesn't always translate to the regular season, but it's an encouraging sign for Murray and Holmgren, as well as Banchero.
Most surprising rookie: Jalen Williams, Oklahoma City Thunder
Honorable mention: Keon Ellis, Sacramento Kings; Jabari Walker, Portland Trail Blazers
Williams, the No. 12 overall pick, proved a nice wing complement to Holmgren and 2021 lottery pick Josh Giddey, doing a little of everything. The bouncy Williams finished strong above the rim but also knocked down five 3-pointers in 13 attempts and looked advanced defensively.
The next-to-last pick by the Blazers, Walker earned a guaranteed contract for this season (per ESPN's Bobby Marks) by shooting 63% from the field, including 6-of-14 beyond the arc. Walker pulled down an impressive 16.4 rebounds per 40 minutes as Portland won the inaugural summer league championship rings. Ellis, who signed a two-way deal with the Sacramento Kings after going undrafted, went 15-of-34 on 3s and averaged two steals per game.
Most disappointing injury: E.J. Liddell, New Orleans Pelicans
Honorable mention: Dyson Daniels, New Orleans Pelicans; Jaden Ivey, Detroit Pistons; Shaedon Sharpe, Portland Trail Blazers
From a scouting standpoint, it was a bummer to see three lottery picks sidelined by injuries early in the schedule. Sharpe suffered a small labral tear in his left shoulder six minutes into his first game action in a year after sitting out at Kentucky, while Daniels and Ivey both dealt with ankle sprains. Ivey's came after he dominated the first five minutes of his second game following a strong debut.
Still, none of those injuries should affect players for training camp. Unfortunately, that's not the case for Liddell, the No. 41 pick out of Ohio State. An ACL tear sustained in the Pelicans' second game will likely cost Liddell, who was unsigned, his first professional campaign. Here's hoping he's able to return to the court in time for next year's summer league.
Slowest-starting rookie: Johnny Davis, Washington Wizards
At Wisconsin, Davis averaged nearly 20 PPG with strong shot-making on a difficult diet of attempts. That skill set hasn't always carried over well to the NBA and we saw Davis struggle to create easy opportunities in three games in Las Vegas while playing through back tightness. He shot 5-of-20 (25%) on 2-pointers and generated just six total free throws after averaging 6.3 per game in college. Davis may have to prepare to play more of an off-ball role early in his NBA career. Hopefully Davis can get to 100% in time for training camp.
Best veteran: Trey Murphy III, New Orleans Pelicans
Honorable mention: Quentin Grimes, New York Knicks; Isaiah Joe, Philadelphia 76ers; Cam Thomas, Brooklyn Nets
Murphy played just two games after totaling 53 points on 17-of-34 shooting in two games. By comparison to the other high-usage second-year players, including Grimes and Thomas, Murphy was more efficient and did it without exceptional 3-point accuracy. In fact, he went 1-of-9 from beyond the arc in his first game but compensated with 8-of-8 foul shooting and four steals. When Murphy knocked down the 3 in his second game, he rang up 30 points.
Thomas finished summer league averaging 20 points per game, scoring effortlessly, and showed improved playmaking by handing out 3.8 APG. Grimes excelled at both ends as the leader of a veteran-laden group (including Myles McBride and Jericho Sims) that reached the title game. And Joe, heading into his third year with the Sixers, shot better than 50% from 3-point range (20-of-3
.Most intriguing veteran: James Wiseman, Golden State Warriors
All eyes were on Wiseman's return to the court for the Warriors' second game in Las Vegas. He came out looking like a player eager for game action after playing sparingly in the last 15 months. Wiseman had a dunk, a 3 and a block within the first two minutes he played. After that burst, Wiseman's inevitable lack of game conditioning played a factor in his up-and-down play. Still, he had 42 points, 22 rebounds and 8 blocks in just 80 minutes, getting valuable development time after so long away from the court.
Best free agent: Jeff Dowtin, Toronto Raptors
Honorable mention: Darius Days, San Antonio Spurs; Mfiondu Kabengele, Boston Celtics; Tommy Kuhse, Orlando Magic
Dowtin, who saw action with three teams last season, was impressive playing for the summer Raptors. He averaged 16 PPG and 4.3 APG while shooting 57% from the field. If Dowtin can become a more consistent 3-point threat (he went 4-of-11), there's a place for him in the league.
Days earned a reported two-way deal with the Miami Heat by starring for the Spurs after going undrafted, putting up 41 points and 30 rebounds in just 66 minutes and making six 3s. Miami's development program could be ideal for Days. Former first-round pick Kabengele picked up a two-way contract with the Celtics, averaging 14.8 PPG, 8.2 RPG and 2.2 BPG for them. Undrafted Saint Mary's star Kuhse didn't play until Orlando's third game but used his old-school craft to excel thereafter, including a 25-point effort on 11-of-15 shooting against the Knicks.
Most fun to watch: Kenny Lofton Jr., Memphis Grizzlies
Honorable mention: Mac McClung, Los Angeles Lakers; Josh Minott, Minnesota Timberwolves
Akin to 1990s center Oliver Miller, Lofton has more skill and creativity than the typical player of his size. Signed to a two-way contract by the Grizzlies after going undrafted, Lofton didn't back down against friend and former USA Basketball teammate Holmgren in a head-to-head matchup. Playing into Holmgren's body, Lofton found room to score 19 points.
After finishing last season on a two-way contract with the Lakers and playing for them in the California Classic, McClung joined the Warriors in Las Vegas and dazzled fans with his playmaking and finishing. Minott's above-the-rim finishes and blocks made him a must-watch and earned him a full NBA deal as a second-round pick.
Biggest fan favorite (tie): Tacko Fall, Utah Jazz; Zavier Simpson, Orlando Magic
The Jazz supplemented a home team light on NBA players with the ever-popular 7-foot-6 Fall, which led to disappointment when he was in street clothes for Utah's second game in Salt Lake City. Hoping to see him play, fans chanted Fall's name to no avail.
As part of a timeout competition during the opening game in Las Vegas, which featured top-three picks Banchero and Jabari Smith Jr., a fan said he was most excited to see "hook shot guy" -- that being the 6-foot Simpson, who actually goes by the nickname "Captain Hook" by virtue of his unorthodox finishing style. Beyond the hooks, Simpson also came up with 10 steals, including multiple times picking Holmgren clean.
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Good **** P
However this is the first time I seen you go on Freeze Time with Ware
However this is the first time I seen you go on Freeze Time with Ware
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Sheesh, you already know OKC is shutting Shai and Giddey down by game 20
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Ivey for ROY. Going to have the ball A LOT.
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Wow. They make these 7 footers different today
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If I had to lay down something on ROY right now, it would be Banchero…He’ll have every opportunity to put up 15+ a game in Orlando
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same time, not to be that guy, but I dont need all my 7 footers shooting crossovers and step back 3s. Somebody protect the paint, guard Embiids and Giannis's and Adebayos and Jokics of the world, and give me 13 boards, and shoot upwards of 50% from the field.
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The Embiid and Giannis are generational players. I dont think anyone can guard them.
The 7 footers today are blocking shots and shooting 3s and now have handle. They're all like KG lite its insane.
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Granite, but those guys particularly the first 2 are going to get multiple dunks and jump hooks a game and shot double digit ft's. If Whataburger is on the perimeter dribbling behind his back and shooting 3s, even if he's great at it, it's such a high variance shot he's going to have nights where it's not on and will badly lose his matchup, not get anyone in foul trouble, not drawing a double team, probably gonna be a 7rpg'er, but IDK I'm into a 48 hour fast and probably just hangry. **** is impressive.
HOU$TON
formerly convertibleburt
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Jalen Duren is what you described but y’all didn’t seem too high on him in here like I was.
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I was, certainly over French Kevin Knox. A rim run/lob threat, next to Chet especially with his ability to pass. Gonna have to watch Ooz Man slow 1-2 cadence euro step wrong foot off hand his way into the paint and kick it out.
You can see what Presti is trying to build tho, even in the summer league team. A team where anyone who grabs it off the board can push it and everyone can attack a closeout, get 2 feet into the paint off a dribble drive and kick out. Problem is, aside from Muscula and Williams, everybody is a so so shooter at best so they just drive and kick out to someone who is open and he drives and kick out to another ***** who drives and kicks and now the clock is at 6, hopefully SGA is the last one to catch because he can quickly get himself something but we need some snipers to finish those plays. It's ok to have a 1 dimensional cat who can just shoot open 3s, and another who just is athletic and dunks, catches lob, blocks shots, dunk tips vs these kind of good at everything but dominant at 0 types.
You can see what Presti is trying to build tho, even in the summer league team. A team where anyone who grabs it off the board can push it and everyone can attack a closeout, get 2 feet into the paint off a dribble drive and kick out. Problem is, aside from Muscula and Williams, everybody is a so so shooter at best so they just drive and kick out to someone who is open and he drives and kick out to another ***** who drives and kicks and now the clock is at 6, hopefully SGA is the last one to catch because he can quickly get himself something but we need some snipers to finish those plays. It's ok to have a 1 dimensional cat who can just shoot open 3s, and another who just is athletic and dunks, catches lob, blocks shots, dunk tips vs these kind of good at everything but dominant at 0 types.
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Think the distinction is how high of a pick are you willing to spend on that type of big as well as considering which other prospects are available at that pick
I’m not low on him personally but to pick him say even in the top 10 of this class would be tough
Nobody is going to stop Jokic, embiid etc anyway but I get what y’all are saying
I’m not mad at bigs developing a perimeter game at all. I seen Kai Jones kind of struggling with that but I’m in favor of having a contrast of bigs
