$7k Air Jordan Scam?

[scoop0625]

Originally Posted by lolblackpeople


Worst SN in the history of NT.

That's one man's opinion, others have told me its the best in the history of NT.

A story of public interest isn't evidence of anything.

Obviously, and I'm not making that claim.  I am simply stating a reason for posting the sordid details and making it public.

Consensus among the inner circle....

Trust me, I don't need the permission of the "inner circle" to post or to comment on anything here on NT.  

Post is simply about making a name for myself.

Laughable that you've gone this far off topic and have chosen to attack and engage the OP instead of commenting/examining the the situation involving MrMar.

To be honest, in my own opinion, your user name is offensive. If anyone said that his user name is the best name on NT is really out of their minds. Seriously.

 

[scoop0625]

Originally Posted by BIP Roberts

That's great, he of the worst SN in the history of Niketalk.

None of it actually addresses my points though. Who cares that this gets 5+ pages of views, that doesn't mean it's of public interest any more than the ratings of Kim and Kourtney Take Manhattan mean that the activities of the Kardashians are in national interest. People will always flock to see prurient details of celebrity culture and rumor - that isn't evidence of anything.

And, Mr. Mar was public, but his identity was. You showing me those websites is like me showing you pics of Banksy's street art or JA's Videograff appearance in order to justify dry snitching - like, see, they're public... Not the same. You outed his government. He was not public like that. Don't pretend you're too obtuse to understand the difference.

Finally, re: the list, like I said the who's who of the sneaker collecting hobby is a pretty small and incestuous group. You could have accomplished the "warning" by PM-ing those who "need to know." So, is this a public service? In a very broad sense, but you're also using a chainsaw when a scalpel would suffice.

ALL THAT SAID, if there is consensus among the "inner circle," then this man deserves all the public shaming coming his way. But, until that matter is decided, you're posting rumors and doing the non-criminal equivalent of dry snitching. I'm not trying to protect Mr. Mar, I don't know him from a hole in the wall and don't move in his circle. I just think that posting somebody's real identity on the internet, especially when you are accusing him of being a thief and putting his personal finances on blast is no small matter, so you better be damned sure it's "deserved" before doing so. From the reactions of the others in the group, it doesn't seem like you fully vetted your decision.

You want to know how you probably sound to a lot of the board? You're a dude who may have been in the exclusive PE game for a minute, but you're not known here, at least by this name. Then, you drop a bomb like this without the support of the network of other exclusive PE collectors - claiming it's in the public interest when it doesn't apply to more than 99% of the NT community. So, it looks like you're trying to high post for e-props. Basically, just broadcasting to as many people as possible that you are "somebody" in the sneaker hobby. Well, congrats, NT knows you have Mr. Mar's phone number and that you're willing throw big money around on sneakers. But, the people you are trying to appeal to don't respect the way you behaved, so what have you gained?

I understand you are in a tough spot, and if your position is screw everybody and massacre all the sacred cows - hey, get yours. Iconoclasts don't make a lot of friends though, so if you don't care about stepping on toes, be prepared for others to stomp back right on yours. If you're just merely trying to be constructive, then perhaps you should try to be more measured.

That's all. I'm not involved and already said too much. I'll leave the rest of this discussion to those more directly involved. 

QFT for everything stated.
Mr. Mar's government name should have been protected the very least.

 

[space doodoo pistols]

Bip Roberts was the man back in the day. hell of a player from 86-95.

 

[bip roberts]

Originally Posted by Space DooDoo Pistols

Bip Roberts was the man back in the day. hell of a player from 86-95.

...And, he probably would have been offended at OP's SN too!

 

[nickfairclough]

Originally Posted by BIP Roberts

That's great, he of the worst SN in the history of Niketalk.

None of it actually addresses my points though. Who cares that this gets 5+ pages of views, that doesn't mean it's of public interest any more than the ratings of Kim and Kourtney Take Manhattan mean that the activities of the Kardashians are in national interest. People will always flock to see prurient details of celebrity culture and rumor - that isn't evidence of anything.

And, Mr. Mar was public, but his identity was. You showing me those websites is like me showing you pics of Banksy's street art or JA's Videograff appearance in order to justify dry snitching - like, see, they're public... Not the same. You outed his government. He was not public like that. Don't pretend you're too obtuse to understand the difference.

Finally, re: the list, like I said the who's who of the sneaker collecting hobby is a pretty small and incestuous group. You could have accomplished the "warning" by PM-ing those who "need to know." So, is this a public service? In a very broad sense, but you're also using a chainsaw when a scalpel would suffice.

ALL THAT SAID, if there is consensus among the "inner circle," then this man deserves all the public shaming coming his way. But, until that matter is decided, you're posting rumors and doing the non-criminal equivalent of dry snitching. I'm not trying to protect Mr. Mar, I don't know him from a hole in the wall and don't move in his circle. I just think that posting somebody's real identity on the internet, especially when you are accusing him of being a thief and putting his personal finances on blast is no small matter, so you better be damned sure it's "deserved" before doing so. From the reactions of the others in the group, it doesn't seem like you fully vetted your decision.

You want to know how you probably sound to a lot of the board? You're a dude who may have been in the exclusive PE game for a minute, but you're not known here, at least by this name. Then, you drop a bomb like this without the support of the network of other exclusive PE collectors - claiming it's in the public interest when it doesn't apply to more than 99% of the NT community. So, it looks like you're trying to high post for e-props. Basically, just broadcasting to as many people as possible that you are "somebody" in the sneaker hobby. Well, congrats, NT knows you have Mr. Mar's phone number and that you're willing throw big money around on sneakers. But, the people you are trying to appeal to don't respect the way you behaved, so what have you gained?

I understand you are in a tough spot, and if your position is screw everybody and massacre all the sacred cows - hey, get yours. Iconoclasts don't make a lot of friends though, so if you don't care about stepping on toes, be prepared for others to stomp back right on yours. If you're just merely trying to be constructive, then perhaps you should try to be more measured.

That's all. I'm not involved and already said too much. I'll leave the rest of this discussion to those more directly involved. 

 

[nickfairclough]

I appreciate "LOLBLACKPEOPLE" bringing this subject/topic/issue to the attention of the NikeTalk community.  If the Chicago Bulls / Charitibulls Letter of Authenticity was fabricated the packaged deal was misrepresented.

"MRMAR23" has established an ICONIC collection which is the envy of many, if not all, collectors on Niketalk (myself included).
He has gained a reputation as being a Premier Collector, attempting to have a collection consisting of at least ONE pair of MJ Game Used/Worn shoes from the Air Jordan NUMBERED Series. 

"BIP ROBERTS" has suggested the information "doesn't apply to more than 99% of the NT community".  I disagree!  Although 99.9% of the NikeTalk community may not
be in the market to purchase a pair of Michael Jordan Game Used/Worn shoes, the information is relevant to the 1% who are, and entertaining to other 99%.

If the issue was NOT made public, how would the 1% of collectors in the market for a pair of Michael Jordan Game Used/Worn shoes (or any other High Net-Worth Item) be made aware of the situation?  "BIP ROBERTS" has suggested this be accomplished by "warning" those individuals who "need to know".  I am not part of any Serious Collector "Need-To-Know" distribution list.  Is there such a list, or club, I should be made aware of?  I have done business with a few people on NikeTalk because of their reputation.  If there is a flaw in their business transactions and conduct I am going to questions their character, integrity, and reputation.  NOBODY wants to be a victim! 

"MRMAR23" approached me about a deal involving cash or trade for my MJ Game Used/Worn White/Red XII's.  I gave the offer the consideration it deserved and decided to not move forward.  However, if I had known that LOA's in his collection were questionable I would NOT have given the deal any consideration. 

"MRMAR23" is innocent until proven guilty.  The NikeTalk community will be the Judge, Jury, and Executioner.  "LOLBLACKPEOPLE" has done me a service by suggesting the LOA from the collection of "MRMAR23" is questionable.  If the LOA is legitimate than the package deal would result in a higher premium.  If the LOA is doctored/tailored/fabricated than the reputation of "MRMAR" is at stake.





It will be interesting to see how this all unfolds.  Where is "MRMAR23" and his side of the story?

 

[lolblackpeople]

Originally Posted by nickfairclough

It will be interesting to see how this all unfolds.  Where is "MRMAR23" and his side of the story?

He's right here:

 

[bip roberts]

^ I'm not sure that means what you think/want it to mean. You want everybody to read that to imply, screw NT, I got over on all of you and you're a bunch of idiots, watch me laugh to the bank. That's one interpretation. Another would be that it's like when somebody asks me how I feel about Bill O'Reilly's opinion global warming - I don't care, it's irrelevant. An accusation that is not yet provable is only as credible as the accuser. So, he might just be saying, you can't defame me because you have no influence. By your logic, anybody who dissed Jay-Z but didn't get a response "won" the battle, or that Jay-Z's "side of the story" is yes, you are right, I'm a herb.

I get Nick's point. It's hard to know everybody who this might affect, so in that respect this is kind of a public service, even if it only serves a very small percentage of the NT public. ...I don't care that it is entertainment to NT. A naked pic of any of our wives would be entertainment to NT too - that doesn't mean it's appropriate to post.

But, let me reiterate my point. If the accusations are unproven, you are crossing the line WHEN YOU IDENTIFY MR. MAR'S REAL LIFE IDENTITY. If you protected his identity - nobody needs to know his real name or home town - then I wouldn't really have any problem with what "LBP" did. If "LBP" spent 5 more minutes with photoshop, I wouldn't have said anything. If the accusations were proven, I wouldn't be so adamant that Mr. Mar is entitled to privacy protection. The public service goal of the post could have been accomplished without outing anybody. That's my main beef here.

 

[tree4twenty]

I agree 100% w/ BIP.

The MODs should have edited that out immediately.

If you had nothing to do with the transaction and you started asking me questions, I would have gave you the same reply as he did in the text.

And Nick, you're so annoying with those corny #++ pics. You have been posting the same ones for at least 7 years now and I can't take it anymore. I am blocking you just for that reason. Every time I see one of those corny #++ pics you post, I want to punch you in the face. Good day.

 

[dankenstien88]

Originally Posted by tree4twenty

I agree 100% w/ BIP.

The MODs should have edited that out immediately.

If you had nothing to do with the transaction and you started asking me questions, I would have gave you the same reply as he did in the text.

And Nick, you're so annoying with those corny #++ pics. You have been posting the same ones for at least 7 years now and I can't take it anymore. I am blocking you just for that reason. Every time I see one of those corny #++ pics you post, I want to punch you in the face. Good day.

   
  

 

[430AM]

If this item was paid through PAYPAL then how come the claim hasn't been filed yet??? Buyers have 100% protection especially on misrepresented items. Buyer needs to get his 8 or 9 racks back and chalk this up as a lesson learned.

/THREAD

 

[Fadess_Kicks]

Crazy stuff

 

[lolblackpeople]

Originally Posted by 430AM

If this item was paid through PAYPAL then how come the claim hasn't been filed yet??? Buyers have 100% protection especially on misrepresented items. Buyer needs to get his 8 or 9 racks back and chalk this up as a lesson learned.

/THREAD

The item was paid for in-person.  The collector that purchased the shoes is not the same person that won the ebay auction and left positive feedback.  Very odd.

 

[lolblackpeople]

Originally Posted by BIP Roberts

^ I'm not sure that means what you think/want it to mean. You want everybody to read that to imply, screw NT, I got over on all of you and you're a bunch of idiots, watch me laugh to the bank. That's one interpretation. Another would be that it's like when somebody asks me how I feel about Bill O'Reilly's opinion global warming - I don't care, it's irrelevant. An accusation that is not yet provable is only as credible as the accuser. So, he might just be saying, you can't defame me because you have no influence. By your logic, anybody who dissed Jay-Z but didn't get a response "won" the battle, or that Jay-Z's "side of the story" is yes, you are right, I'm a herb.

I get Nick's point. It's hard to know everybody who this might affect, so in that respect this is kind of a public service, even if it only serves a very small percentage of the NT public. ...I don't care that it is entertainment to NT. A naked pic of any of our wives would be entertainment to NT too - that doesn't mean it's appropriate to post.

But, let me reiterate my point. If the accusations are unproven, you are crossing the line WHEN YOU IDENTIFY MR. MAR'S REAL LIFE IDENTITY. If you protected his identity - nobody needs to know his real name or home town - then I wouldn't really have any problem with what "LBP" did. If "LBP" spent 5 more minutes with photoshop, I wouldn't have said anything. If the accusations were proven, I wouldn't be so adamant that Mr. Mar is entitled to privacy protection. The public service goal of the post could have been accomplished without outing anybody. That's my main beef here.

Here you go again being presumptuous.  The txt msg screen shot speaks for itself and NT users can interpret it however they wish - as does MrMar's letter, the two authentic letters, and the Chicago Bulls response to MrMar's letter.
You imply that MrMar's identity should not be exposed under any circumstance.  I disagree.  One of the keys to identifying the Bulls letter as counterfeit is the showing that the letter is addressed to MrMar himself and not the original owner of the shoes (who purchased them directly from the Bulls).  

 

[bip roberts]

Originally Posted by lolblackpeople


Here you go again being presumptuous.  The txt msg screen shot speaks for itself and NT users can interpret it however they wish - as does MrMar's letter, the two authentic letters, and the Chicago Bulls response to MrMar's letter.
You imply that MrMar's identity should not be exposed under any circumstance.  I disagree.  One of the keys to identifying the Bulls letter as counterfeit is the showing that the letter is addressed to MrMar himself and not the original owner of the shoes (who purchased them directly from the Bulls).  

I'm not being presumptuous. The gist of all my posts has been "I don't know." That's the antithesis of being presumptuous.

The text message doesn't imply anything unequivocally. He didn't say, "Yup, I scammed all you idiot and know I'm going swimming in my Scrooge McDuck money bin" He basically just says, "eff off." The motivation behind that response is not clear, but there are many reasonable options other than the one you seem to have anointed as clear and definitive.

Again, I'm not sure you really HAD to out him to accomplish your goal. You could have just as easily attempted to explain the situation at first. This letter is addressed to Mr. Mar - though I've redacted his name for privacy sake - even though he purchased them second hand, etc. At least wait for the community to really force your hand before proactively and voluntarily. offering up his persona info I'm sure you would want the same courtesy, even in the context of you being accused of wrongdoing. In fact, we know you do because you took the effort to keep your personal details private but didn't extend the courtesy to the other party.

I'm done now, for real this time because each time I post and give this thread more attention, it gives your outing of somebody else more "reach." So, we'll agree to disagree here. I don't think what you did was horrible, just that I think you could have been a bit more tactful in doing so.

 

[430AM]

Originally Posted by lolblackpeople

Originally Posted by 430AM

If this item was paid through PAYPAL then how come the claim hasn't been filed yet??? Buyers have 100% protection especially on misrepresented items. Buyer needs to get his 8 or 9 racks back and chalk this up as a lesson learned.

/THREAD

The item was paid for in-person.  The collector that purchased the shoes is not the same person that won the ebay auction and left positive feedback.  Very odd.

OUCH. Dead serious bro... Good luck to the buyer. Dude got burnt for real.

 

[c hanna]

everyone going at lolblackpeople sound like idiots to me.
this guy's trying to help another dude out by bringing it to light. doesnt matter if he is new to the pe collecting, or is a "veteran", or if he has any at all
if i'm buying shoes from a well-known collector and he says something is the real deal im expecting to be getting the real deal

 

[160jordansdeep]

Originally Posted by lolblackpeople

Originally Posted by nickfairclough

It will be interesting to see how this all unfolds.  Where is "MRMAR23" and his side of the story?

He's right here:

dont you guys get it 
the seller dont care 
its not your 7K so why should you 

 

[cdunk]

Originally Posted by Hanacheezy

everyone going at lolblackpeople sound like idiots to me.
this guy's trying to help another dude out by bringing it to light. doesnt matter if he is new to the pe collecting, or is a "veteran", or if he has any at all
if i'm buying shoes from a well-known collector and he says something is the real deal im expecting to be getting the real deal

Most people's point is that we didn't need to know MrMar's real name.  lolblackpeople wants to inform the public that MrMar is involved in something shady, and people buying collector PEs should be aware.   I applaud his effort for informing the community, no matter how small the % of potential buyers, but to put out someone's government name is pointless, especially if MrMar hasn't been guilty of anything yet.  If I'm in the market for PEs, all I need to know is that there are fake LOAs out there, and if I want to confirm the person I'm dealing with isn't MrMar, I can just PM lolblackpeople for his name.  

 

[just4kix]

Originally Posted by CDUNK

Originally Posted by Hanacheezy

everyone going at lolblackpeople sound like idiots to me.
this guy's trying to help another dude out by bringing it to light. doesnt matter if he is new to the pe collecting, or is a "veteran", or if he has any at all
if i'm buying shoes from a well-known collector and he says something is the real deal im expecting to be getting the real deal

Most people's point is that we didn't need to know MrMar's real name.  lolblackpeople wants to inform the public that MrMar is involved in something shady, and people buying collector PEs should be aware.   I applaud his effort for informing the community, no matter how small the % of potential buyers, but to put out someone's government name is pointless, especially if MrMar hasn't been guilty of anything yet.  If I'm in the market for PEs, all I need to know is that there are fake LOAs out there, and if I want to confirm the person I'm dealing with isn't MrMar, I can just PM lolblackpeople for his name.  

I AGREE w/ CDUNK. That was a lot of intel for something that hasn't been proven w/o a shadow of a doubt but it helps other collectors be on the lookout for things like this 

 

[vood99]

Originally Posted by Just4Kix

Originally Posted by CDUNK

Originally Posted by Hanacheezy

everyone going at lolblackpeople sound like idiots to me.
this guy's trying to help another dude out by bringing it to light. doesnt matter if he is new to the pe collecting, or is a "veteran", or if he has any at all
if i'm buying shoes from a well-known collector and he says something is the real deal im expecting to be getting the real deal

Most people's point is that we didn't need to know MrMar's real name.  lolblackpeople wants to inform the public that MrMar is involved in something shady, and people buying collector PEs should be aware.   I applaud his effort for informing the community, no matter how small the % of potential buyers, but to put out someone's government name is pointless, especially if MrMar hasn't been guilty of anything yet.  If I'm in the market for PEs, all I need to know is that there are fake LOAs out there, and if I want to confirm the person I'm dealing with isn't MrMar, I can just PM lolblackpeople for his name.  

I AGREE w/ CDUNK. That was a lot of intel for something that hasn't been proven w/o a shadow of a doubt but it helps other collectors be on the lookout for things like this 

I beg to differ. There are few people who will drop $3K for game worn PEs and a handful who will drop $7K for an 'authenticated' game worn PE. I see the names of NTers who run scams for $100 posted, why should MrMar be exempt?    

 

[nickfairclough]

Originally Posted by tree4twenty

I agree 100% w/ BIP.

The MODs should have edited that out immediately.

If you had nothing to do with the transaction and you started asking me questions, I would have gave you the same reply as he did in the text.

And Nick, you're so annoying with those corny #++ pics. You have been posting the same ones for at least 7 years now and I can't take it anymore. I am blocking you just for that reason. Every time I see one of those corny #++ pics you post, I want to punch you in the face. Good day.

That's the 2nd time this week somebody has said they want to punch me. 

"You are quite the Saucy Dude (If I can call you that?

. At first, when we began conversing again I seriously wanted to PUNCH YOU or at least slap you hard. I felt you were just always trying to push buttons and I did NOT appreciate that. However, I see you in a totally different light these days. I know you are a good father, and I’ve grown to appreciate your Saucy Dude Attitude because I see the value in it. I like how vocal you are, that you are unafraid to express your opinion or stand up for it at any given time. I like your sarcasm/sense of humor (it’s similar to mine actually) and how passionate you are about things you love/enjoy, namely your sons and amaaaazing shoe collection.

" - Shannon Egan

 

[bip roberts]

Originally Posted by Just4Kix

I AGREE w/ CDUNK. That was a lot of intel for something that hasn't been proven w/o a shadow of a doubt but it helps other collectors be on the lookout for things like this 

Fake LOAs/COAs are rampant - and not just in sneaker collecting. If it takes this post to inform somebody that's the documents are forged all the time, then that somebody is just not really ready to be dealing in type of commerce he/she is about to engage. OP may have given you a fish to eat today, but if fake LOAs are a surprised to you, you better start teaching yourself how to fish, because that somebody getting scammed is inevitable and this post has simply postponed it.

 

[bip roberts]

Originally Posted by vood99

I beg to differ. There are few people who will drop $3K for game worn PEs and a handful who will drop $7K for an 'authenticated' game worn PE. I see the names of NTers who run scams for $100 posted, why should MrMar be exempt?    

Their real identities?

That's pretty foul too then. Less foul if the scam has been completely confirmed though.

 

[nickfairclough]

Originally Posted by BIP Roberts

Originally Posted by vood99

I beg to differ. There are few people who will drop $3K for game worn PEs and a handful who will drop $7K for an 'authenticated' game worn PE. I see the names of NTers who run scams for $100 posted, why should MrMar be exempt?    

Their real identities?

That's pretty foul too then. Less foul if the scam has been completely confirmed though.

I like the idea of FULL DISCLOSURE from the beginning.  To me, this minimizes the guessing game and the slow process of piecing the puzzle together as relevant material is revealed.  "LOLBLACKPEOPLE" displayed all of the Facts (as he views them) from the start.  He presented a compelling argument in regards to the nature of the LOA (it's suggested flaws and fabrication), and the nature of how the shoes were obtained (second hand by "MRMAR23").