A "Takeover" To Young Money Would Shut Down The Game Right Now...

[|A-Man|]

Originally Posted by ILL LEGAL OPERATION

Originally Posted by ATGD7154xBBxMZ

True but who would do it though?

You can't be seriously suggesting Ol Man Jigga.

Honestly my dude, I am...
...lemme clarify a couple things at the outset though:

- this would be a good ol' fashioned battle on wax. WWE publicity stunt? Of course, but we'd all listen and watch

- I said a "Takeover" for a reason - there was nothing subliminal about those disses in that song - he said names, repeatedly. 

- I think it would lengthen Jay's career because if he attacked Wayne, Baby, and Drake it would be the biggest battle since him and Nas; more music to make, more %$* to be argued about in the barbershop/blogs/forums/magazines, more songs to perform live, more food for his stans to eat and more ammo for his haters, etc.

As far as me picking Jay as the one to do it - who else could it be?

Pusha? Didn't work

Luda? If a tree falls in the forest, and there's no one there to hear it...

In my opinion he's the only artist that could do it and demand a response - well maybe Em too, but YMCMB hasn't been throwing shots at him the way they've been throwing them to Jay - so if Jay blazed a snappy retort, no one could say that it isn't justified...

...as far as the whole "does he still have the skill to do it" issue, that's where it'd get fun IMO - like, is this Jordan on the Bulls or Jordan on the Wizards?

As amazing of a talent as Drake is, pound for pound, bar for bar, and line for line - I still think a "Shiny Suit Theory" Shawn Corey would body him...

...and isn't Jay working on another album? Man that %*$% would sell itself.

I see your reasoning but I don't agree with it lengthening Jay's career if anything more of his stans deluding themselves to give another reason why he's the GOAT. "Pusha couldn't do it. Luda couldn't. Curtis couldn't but Jay finished Wayne's career!! blah blah"

Honestly, I don't see this scenario as the biggest thing since Jay and Nas. The reasonable Wayne fans already know he's not untouchable. Plenty of rappers have dissed, exposed, made fun of him and as already mentioned Wayne stans will ignore or just say Wayne won anyway. Nas and Jay was special cuz in a way it was Nas against the whole Roc. Not to say Jay needs anybody on Rocnation but more than anything I could see him trying to flip the situation to benefit Cole or whoever else is signed on his label.

Also, it's not even a guarantee specifically Wayne and Drake respond. Nobody wants to hear Baby respond or those other bums on the label. In an ironic twist they could pull the same shh Jay has been pulling on other rappers who've went at him for years now. Just drop subliminals in their songs for the next few years, tell him to worry about his child, call him a senile old man and claim they don't fight senior citizens.

The diss itself might be extremely dope but I'd find Jay pretty lame to attack a few popular whack rappers unprovoked (and when I say unprovoked I'm not talking about these is he or isn't he rhymes these dudes have spitting for a while now where the fans speculate whose being talked about).

You right about that situation helping Jay though as (more) album sales and what not since I don't really think all this experimentation he's been doing has improved his catalog.

 

[lukethejediknight]

^Disagree with your last point. Some people on this board might not like the "experimentation" but that's one of the main things that's kept him relevant to the mainstream, not disses to other rappers. He was throwing shots all over Kingdom Come (and it was clear where some of those shots were going to) but while KC sold records he didn't get that commercial buzz that he saw with the experimetal BP3. That helped to open up his fanbase to alot of people who didn't really listen to Jay before then.

Fact is, rap beef ain't the same as some of us might remember it as being during the 90s and even part of the 00s. Especially with the merging of the rap-pop music world, most mainstream listeners aren't into beef like that. YM caters to that audience more than anything else.

 

[shaze804]

man ymcmb is really at the forefront of hiphop...

 

[Peep Game]

Originally Posted by Shaze804

man ymcmb is really at the forefront of hiphop...

Sadly that speaks volumes.
  

 

[dathbgboy]

Originally Posted by Peep Game

Honestly Luke, it wouldn't do anything for Jay at all, unless he just feels like getting another notch under his belt. You're
definitely right about the way Jay probably views YM, especially as solo artists. I mean, regardless of the way people have
Drake on a pedestal, as a pure rapper, a Drake vs Jay battle would be a joke. Drake would be "goin in" and break out in
a serenading sonnet. You can just go down the YM and it wouldn't make a difference who to pick out. Jay would be wasting
his time and effort, and YM doesn't have the pure skill to do anything like that.

I could hear it now.
But honestly, yall wanna see a battle, just let somebody from YM throw an obvious shot at Shady 2.0

 

[|A-Man|]

Originally Posted by LuketheJediKnight

^Disagree with your last point. Some people on this board might not like the "experimentation" but that's one of the main things that's kept him relevant to the mainstream, not disses to other rappers. He was throwing shots all over Kingdom Come (and it was clear where some of those shots were going to) but while KC sold records he didn't get that commercial buzz that he saw with the experimetal BP3. That helped to open up his fanbase to alot of people who didn't really listen to Jay before then.

@ experimentation is keeping him relevant. At this point in his career Jay doesn't need much other than a hot song to get his fans paying attention to his next album. He partially proved that when he went back to his old subject matter on AG. He didn't name names on KC, more of that I'm dissing you but I'm not dissing you stuff. not to mention KC was whack all around.

I aint buying none of that experimentation gave him a bigger fanbase nonsense.

Originally Posted by Dathbgboy

Originally Posted by Peep Game

Honestly Luke, it wouldn't do anything for Jay at all, unless he just feels like getting another notch under his belt. You're
definitely right about the way Jay probably views YM, especially as solo artists. I mean, regardless of the way people have
Drake on a pedestal, as a pure rapper, a Drake vs Jay battle would be a joke. Drake would be "goin in" and break out in
a serenading sonnet. You can just go down the YM and it wouldn't make a difference who to pick out. Jay would be wasting
his time and effort, and YM doesn't have the pure skill to do anything like that.

I could hear it now.
But honestly, yall wanna see a battle, just let somebody from YM throw an obvious shot at Shady 2.0

Now that's what I'm talking about Joey, Joell, and Royce lyrically raping those dudes would be entertaining for us and a whole lot more beneficial for them.

 

[Peep Game]

Originally Posted by Dathbgboy

Peep Game wrote:

I could hear it now.

But honestly, yall wanna see a battle, just let somebody from YM throw an obvious shot at Shady 2.0

...

Yelawolf vs Tyga, Eminem vs Birdman

  

 

[M. Fresh]

rap fans are so fickle. If 50 went at young money everybody would say "oh 50 up to his tricks, he needs attention". Imo a few people in this thread only want someone who is bigger or on the same level as wayne to go at young money. Only two people are jay and em and i dont see them doing anything. Nobody is going to go at them bc they either want a feature or fear they will burn a bridge since wayne works with so many people.

 

[back1ntheday]

rap beef lost its luster years ago. i dont think any one person could knock down young money right now - they're too established in the game. if we're talking putting careers on hold type "takeover", i dont see the average fan really caring too much nowadays about diss tracks.

 

[gllahone84]

This ain't 01...last time a battle really meant something for hip-hop.

Two real MC's going head to head. You could feel it happening right before Summer Jam...The subliminal shotsNas and Jay were throwing at each other were noticeable by all hip hop heads at the time.

If Jay bodies em who would care? They cater to a completely different audience...and that audience doesn't even understand the significance of battling and what it means for the genre of hip hop. Jay would have to go all out with it...and he's in a different place than he was in 01.

 

[lukethejediknight]

Originally Posted by ATGD7154xBBxMZ

Originally Posted by LuketheJediKnight

^Disagree with your last point. Some people on this board might not like the "experimentation" but that's one of the main things that's kept him relevant to the mainstream, not disses to other rappers. He was throwing shots all over Kingdom Come (and it was clear where some of those shots were going to) but while KC sold records he didn't get that commercial buzz that he saw with the experimetal BP3. That helped to open up his fanbase to alot of people who didn't really listen to Jay before then.

@ experimentation is keeping him relevant. At this point in his career Jay doesn't need much other than a hot song to get his fans paying attention to his next album. He partially proved that when he went back to his old subject matter on AG. He didn't name names on KC, more of that I'm dissing you but I'm not dissing you stuff. not to mention KC was whack all around.

I aint buying none of that experimentation gave him a bigger fanbase nonsense.

Don't be stupid. Look at Jay's numbers and singles POP (not urban) charts performances worldwide before and after BP3/WTT.

You actually been around, talk to, and play tunes for music listeners outside of the hip-hop world? Of course the hardcore Jay fans will look out for his singles regardless but that's not what I'm talking about.

There's a reason why BP3 was the commercial hit that Jay's other two albums post-retirement were not, even though KC/AG sold records. And it isn't simply because of his namesake. It's pretty damn clear with the sounds and features on the record who he was marketing BP3 to, to attract the more casual pop audience (the same audience that YM also appeals to). There are alot of people out there who wouldn't own a single Jay-Z song in their ITunes before BP3, but ask them if they got that "Run This Town", "ESOM", or "Young Forever".

Ever think about what makes a mainstream radio hit in 2011? It ain't soul samples and boom-bap lyricism. Jay ain't merely a rap star anymore, and part of his current sound reflects that. It shouldn't be hard to comprehend.

 

[sohi 23]

Busta just signed to YM...

 

[510hayward]

Originally Posted by SoHi 23

Busta just signed to YM...

wat

 

[|A-Man|]

Originally Posted by The Fresh Sole

rap fans are so fickle. If 50 went at young money everybody would say "oh 50 up to his tricks, he needs attention". Imo a few people in this thread only want someone who is bigger or on the same level as wayne to go at young money. Only two people are jay and em and i dont see them doing anything. Nobody is going to go at them bc they either want a feature or fear they will burn a bridge since wayne works with so many people.

Curtis did go at Wayne and by extension Baby though. Thing is as usual with all of his diss songs, they weren't lyrical. Just him making fun of them.

 

[finallyfamous]

Yeah but if Eminem dissed anyone it'd be a wrap.



You can't respond to a diss from Marshall. 

 

[stopcappin]

Wayne has always been my favorite rapper with that being said................................................................... JAY NEEDS TO TAKEOVER THIS $%%$!. Dude is too�comfortable right now and I know a blatant diss from Hov would knock some sense into him. I mean there's no way Wayne would win but he knows he can't get away with saying wack !+%$ against Hov. Just give me a verse like this�
plus Wayne has already said Hov name dude needs to respond and stop letting dude slide.

 

[Remy LeBeau]

Originally Posted by 510hayward

Originally Posted by SoHi 23

Busta just signed to YM...

wat

he signed with cash money

 

[theshoe1010]

Originally Posted by jc619er

Originally Posted by 7Jordan7

i wanna see someone like J.cole get into a beef

I wouldn't. J. Cole might actually start crying on record if he had to beef.

I wanna see Cam go at someone again. Imagine  "You Gotta Love It" directed at these cats. 

I understand that theres probably no motivation there aside from a struggle for relevance, but it's still funny to think about. 

 

[|A-Man|]

Originally Posted by LuketheJediKnight

Originally Posted by ATGD7154xBBxMZ

Originally Posted by LuketheJediKnight

^Disagree with your last point. Some people on this board might not like the "experimentation" but that's one of the main things that's kept him relevant to the mainstream, not disses to other rappers. He was throwing shots all over Kingdom Come (and it was clear where some of those shots were going to) but while KC sold records he didn't get that commercial buzz that he saw with the experimetal BP3. That helped to open up his fanbase to alot of people who didn't really listen to Jay before then.

@ experimentation is keeping him relevant. At this point in his career Jay doesn't need much other than a hot song to get his fans paying attention to his next album. He partially proved that when he went back to his old subject matter on AG. He didn't name names on KC, more of that I'm dissing you but I'm not dissing you stuff. not to mention KC was whack all around.

I aint buying none of that experimentation gave him a bigger fanbase nonsense.

Don't be stupid. Look at Jay's numbers and singles POP (not urban) charts performances worldwide before and after BP3/WTT.

You actually been around, talk to, and play tunes for music listeners outside of the hip-hop world? Of course the hardcore Jay fans will look out for his singles regardless but that's not what I'm talking about.

There's a reason why BP3 was the commercial hit that Jay's other two albums post-retirement were not, even though KC/AG sold records. And it isn't simply because of his namesake. It's pretty damn clear with the sounds and features on the record who he was marketing BP3 to, to attract the more casual pop audience (the same audience that YM also appeals to). There are alot of people out there who wouldn't own a single Jay-Z song in their ITunes before BP3, but ask them if they got that "Run This Town", "ESOM", or "Young Forever".

Ever think about what makes a mainstream radio hit in 2011? It ain't soul samples and boom-bap lyricism. Jay ain't merely a rap star anymore, and part of his current sound reflects that. It shouldn't be hard to comprehend.

You talking about album sales and the slight increase worldwide.

Experimentation is not keeping Jay-Z relevant. Maybe you don't know what the word means or you're using your own definition of the word but that statement is false, just go back to my last response.

 

[lukethejediknight]

Originally Posted by ATGD7154xBBxMZ

Originally Posted by LuketheJediKnight

Originally Posted by ATGD7154xBBxMZ

@ experimentation is keeping him relevant. At this point in his career Jay doesn't need much other than a hot song to get his fans paying attention to his next album. He partially proved that when he went back to his old subject matter on AG. He didn't name names on KC, more of that I'm dissing you but I'm not dissing you stuff. not to mention KC was whack all around.

I aint buying none of that experimentation gave him a bigger fanbase nonsense.

Don't be stupid. Look at Jay's numbers and singles POP (not urban) charts performances worldwide before and after BP3/WTT.

You actually been around, talk to, and play tunes for music listeners outside of the hip-hop world? Of course the hardcore Jay fans will look out for his singles regardless but that's not what I'm talking about.

There's a reason why BP3 was the commercial hit that Jay's other two albums post-retirement were not, even though KC/AG sold records. And it isn't simply because of his namesake. It's pretty damn clear with the sounds and features on the record who he was marketing BP3 to, to attract the more casual pop audience (the same audience that YM also appeals to). There are alot of people out there who wouldn't own a single Jay-Z song in their ITunes before BP3, but ask them if they got that "Run This Town", "ESOM", or "Young Forever".

Ever think about what makes a mainstream radio hit in 2011? It ain't soul samples and boom-bap lyricism. Jay ain't merely a rap star anymore, and part of his current sound reflects that. It shouldn't be hard to comprehend.

You talking about album sales and the slight increase worldwide.

Experimentation is not keeping Jay-Z relevant. Maybe you don't know what the word means or you're using your own definition of the word but that statement is false, just go back to my last response.

Yes I'm talking about the sales, that's a part of relevancy isn't it? Especially from the pop music (not just hip-hop) standpoint. And it's not a slight increase when your album nearly sells a mill more copies in the US in half the time of AG and a 1/4 of the time of KC, never mind the higher-charting singles and higher sales and certifications worldwide.

If you can't even attribute some of that to the more techno/hook pop-friendly elements of BP3 that was lacking from Jay's previous albums, then I don't know what else to tell you. We'll just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

 

[|A-Man|]

You keep arguing other topics. If Jay-Z did not experiment on those two albums would he be irrelevant? Yes or No. It's not one of the main things that have kept him relevant. For you to say his namesake doesn't matter is stupid, almost as if you think we're talking about some other artist at this point. Sales is ONLY A PART of being relevant. Not the entirety of it.

A slight increase in worldwide sales is in fact irrelevant to the statement of "experimentation is keeping Jay-Z relevant"

None of this the singles chartered higher or the albums sold more worldwide is going to justify that statement. It's not even support for it.

 

[Peep Game]

Yea the change in Jay-Z's sound wasn't really a factor in anything. From The Black Album to BP3,
Jay was nearly on every chart. So the change in sound was just that...a change in sound.

 

[lukethejediknight]

Originally Posted by Peep Game

Yea the change in Jay-Z's sound wasn't really a factor in anything. From The Black Album to BP3,
Jay was nearly on every chart.

I'm not even arguing this though. I'm merely pointing to the change in sound as the main reason he saw the jump in his chart performances, instead of the decline in sales and singles (from TBA) in the overall mainstream sector that you saw with KC/AG. That's what I mean when I posted about experimentation keeping him relevant. Namesake only takes you so far (didn't say anywhere that it didn't matter either, dunno where he was getting that from), if the music doesn't appeal to the crowd that YM is currently popular with, than over time you slide into irrevelancy. This applies to every artist who caters to the casuals.

 

[buc em]

All of the new mainstream rappers are like 6'0 140 pounds and high all the time. Not a damn one of these dudes have probably ever been in a real fight in their life. Beefing is done.

 

[sirtalkalot718]

This could be a great marketing ploy for Jays next album. Drop a buzz single on some "Im still the king. Dont mess with me." steez. Kinda like Drake's The Ride but better. Heavy subliminals over a Kanye or Just Blaze beat. Then if they take the bait kill em with Takeover 2.0 on the album. I would buy the album 10x if this happened. I could see Jay on Angie Martinez now talking like "Them cats was just feeling themselves too much." Lol.