Abolish the Welfare System in America Vol. Mature Discussion

[solarius49]

I dont see how getting pregnant has anything to do with abusing the system? Explain please? Everybody's family dont got it bro, but I can tell you havent ever been a part of that demographic. And I know people on welfare with ZERO kids...but please, help me understand

i posted my upbringing a while back on how my mom supported me.

i came here from hong kong when i was 3. i saw my mom work 60 hour weeks trying to support me. (not sure if it was below the minimum wage at the time cause we just got here and she didnt know much about ny) my dad had a gambling addiction that really didnt help pay the bills. MY MOM NEVER TOOK GOVERNMENT ASSISTANCE OF ANY KIND. the reason could be because didnt know english and of government assistance programs that couldve helped. but she still has more saved up than the average american and her salary never past 25k (nominal). im 22 and i have more saved up than her because i invested what i earned into the market (its insanely rigged now). most of my clothes on average is like 3-5 years old. its like the other thread say about financial literacy. its desperately needed in america.

but your situation isnt everybody's situation though. everybody isnt going to be successful, and there will always be a class of people who arent as financially capable of other segments of society. Just because your mom didnt use it doesnt mean that it cant be used very positively to help alot of other families.

I was kickin it with my friend last night who grew up on welfare, got pregnant at a young age, was on it for 2 years, then got off it because the $300 a month that its capped at wont reasonably help anybody raise a child. So she got a better job, moved out the pj's, got off welfare and is a great parent.

I know alot more people who live that story than people who are living it up taking advantage of the system




in fact, your statement isnt even logical:

If every American took your route, and invested in the stock market, logically some (most) of those people are going to lose big instead of winning big. So there would be alot more poor people in this country. Remember when everybody wanted to invest in real estate in the 80s? Man that turned out great for our economy

 

[andycrazn]

but your situation isnt everybody's situation though. everybody isnt going to be successful, and there will always be a class of people who arent as financially capable of other segments of society. Just because your mom didnt use it doesnt mean that it cant be used very positively to help alot of other families.

I was kickin it with my friend last night who grew up on welfare, got pregnant at a young age, was on it for 2 years, then got off it because the $300 a month that its capped at wont reasonably help anybody raise a child. So she got a better job, moved out the pj's, got off welfare and is a great parent.

I know alot more people who live that story than people who are living it up taking advantage of the system




in fact, your statement isnt even logical:

If every American took your route, and invested in the stock market, logically some (most) of those people are going to lose big instead of winning big. So there would be alot more poor people in this country. Remember when everybody wanted to invest in real estate in the 80s? Man that turned out great for our economy

i started investing in 08.

i dont think i can say struggling to support a child is a sign of success. even now when my moms better of she still has this crazy work ethic of working 40 hour shifts in 2 days working 2 different jobs. she also saved alot of it because she knows that her savings is THE SAFETY NET. not some third party entity.

good for her. she didnt want to stay close to the safety net as possible i applaud her.

 

[solarius49]

but your situation isnt everybody's situation though. everybody isnt going to be successful, and there will always be a class of people who arent as financially capable of other segments of society. Just because your mom didnt use it doesnt mean that it cant be used very positively to help alot of other families.

I was kickin it with my friend last night who grew up on welfare, got pregnant at a young age, was on it for 2 years, then got off it because the $300 a month that its capped at wont reasonably help anybody raise a child. So she got a better job, moved out the pj's, got off welfare and is a great parent.

I know alot more people who live that story than people who are living it up taking advantage of the system




in fact, your statement isnt even logical:

If every American took your route, and invested in the stock market, logically some (most) of those people are going to lose big instead of winning big. So there would be alot more poor people in this country. Remember when everybody wanted to invest in real estate in the 80s? Man that turned out great for our economy

i started investing in 08.

i dont think i can say struggling to support a child is a sign of success. even now when my moms better of she still has this crazy work ethic of working 40 hour shifts in 2 days working 2 different jobs. she also saved alot of it because she knows that her savings is THE SAFETY NET. not some third party entity.

good for her. she didnt want to stay close to the safety net as possible i applaud her.

thats cool, but does that still mean that some other people dont need any help? If you look back at your native China, theres NOBODY there who could use the aid of the government?

and also, you dont have to have kids to be on welfare.

People have this notion that folks on welfare are lazy. I dont know on what planet you can work 2 jobs and be a parent, but be lazy because you receive food stamps. I'm assuming all you guys turn down grant money for college because you would rather repay those loans too?

 

[rillo561]

I think it needs to be tweaked some but not abolished. Samething with SSI disability... way too many young able body people getting a "crazy check". However this isn't bankrupting America. Corporate welfare is a much better problem IMO. Its just easier to kick the "little people" also the government isn't gonna give you back your money, they'll find another way to get it. Don't even get me stared on wars and what a drain that has been.

 

[fade on you]

IMO, if you arent financially stable enough to have children, don't.

 

[andycrazn]

thats cool, but does that still mean that some other people dont need any help? If you look back at your native China, theres NOBODY there who could use the aid of the government?

and also, you dont have to have kids to be on welfare.

People have this notion that folks on welfare are lazy. I dont know on what planet you can work 2 jobs and be a parent, but be lazy because you receive food stamps. I'm assuming all you guys turn down grant money for college because you would rather repay those loans too?

theres no government aid there. all im saying is that government aid should be the VERY LAST RESORT. exhaust your family/friends help, local charity, etc etc before you hit up government aid.

 

[solarius49]

thats cool, but does that still mean that some other people dont need any help? If you look back at your native China, theres NOBODY there who could use the aid of the government?

and also, you dont have to have kids to be on welfare.

People have this notion that folks on welfare are lazy. I dont know on what planet you can work 2 jobs and be a parent, but be lazy because you receive food stamps. I'm assuming all you guys turn down grant money for college because you would rather repay those loans too?

theres no government aid there. all im saying is that government aid should be the VERY LAST RESORT. exhaust your family/friends help, local charity, etc etc before you hit up government aid.

alot of these people dont have family who can help that much. thats just reality. And local charity.....you would rather sleep in a shelter than ask for help?

and I know theres no gov't aid there, but I bet theres billions of people who could use it.

 

[solarius49]

IMO, if you arent financially stable enough to have children, don't.

I'm assuming you're under the age of 18, but while this is ideal, this isn't even a little bit realistic. Alot of people dont think in those terms unfortunately...but once again, what does having children have to do with receiving welfare? You can get welfare without having kids

 

[andycrazn]

alot of these people dont have family who can help that much. thats just reality. And local charity.....you would rather sleep in a shelter than ask for help?

and I know theres no gov't aid there, but I bet theres billions of people who could use it.

that doesnt mean its right. back then receiving government aid was frowned upon. now we got people bragging like its going out of style.

 

[solarius49]

alot of these people dont have family who can help that much. thats just reality. And local charity.....you would rather sleep in a shelter than ask for help?

and I know theres no gov't aid there, but I bet theres billions of people who could use it.

that doesnt mean its right. back then receiving government aid was frowned upon. now we got people bragging like its going out of style.

ok, but is that the majority, or a few boisterous ********? There are elderly people who depend on welfare to survive, as well as just plain hard working americans. The face of welfare in America is middle age white midwestern women...but I'm assuming thats not who you were referring to when you say "bragging like its going out of style"

 

[andycrazn]

ok, but is that the majority, or a few boisterous ********? There are elderly people who depend on welfare to survive, as well as just plain hard working americans. The face of welfare in America is middle age white midwestern women...but I'm assuming thats not who you were referring to when you say "bragging like its going out of style"

http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/

i just googled welfare demographics and pulled the first link that came up.

 

[andycrazn]

http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/

i just googled welfare demographics and pulled the first link that came up.

 

[rillo561]

IMO, if you arent financially stable enough to have children, don't.

QFT, I can't believe how people are so careless when it comes to this.

 

[solarius49]

ok, but is that the majority, or a few boisterous ********? There are elderly people who depend on welfare to survive, as well as just plain hard working americans. The face of welfare in America is middle age white midwestern women...but I'm assuming thats not who you were referring to when you say "bragging like its going out of style"

http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/

i just googled welfare demographics and pulled the first link that came up.

ok, this doesnt really disprove anything. I actually referenced, I meant "the face of poverty in the country is midwestern white women". But one way or another, you're basically judging 4 million people based on some people that you apparently heard "bragging" about being on welfare. Everybody I know thats on welfare (and damn do I know alot) hates it, and wont even speak of it unless they are in the privacy of their own home.

I would actually love to see examples of all these welfare recipients bragging about it. Are there people abusing the system? Of course, the same way that there are corporate sharks abusing their employees, and raking in millions. But are there plenty of honest people who work every day, and need a little bit of aid from the gov't to get by? absolutely.

This fantasy that you have about "they should go ask their family or charities" for help is pretty out of touch. Usually welfare is a last resort, or a result of a poor upbringing with a lack of upward mobility (which is much easier said than done). But there are plenty of successful people who grew up on welfare as well...but you seem determined to put down people who use it as though they are all leaches or something, when that couldnt be further from the truth. I wish I could just bring you down here to talk to some of these people

I know there were plenty of nights I wouldnt have eaten if it wasnt for food stamps, and I havent missed a day of work since 2002 damn near

 

[fade on you]

I'm assuming you're under the age of 18, but while this is ideal, this isn't even a little bit realistic. Alot of people dont think in those terms unfortunately...but once again, what does having children have to do with receiving welfare? You can get welfare without having kids

I'm 26.

First thing i said was IMO. Ideal? Yes. Realistic? No. I can agree with you on that part. There are so many problems with today's society and people's views on things its whats bringing down America right before our eyes.

Its easier to get welfare with children, using the "single parent" mark on the application on the forms. If you're getting 300+ a month per kid, plus your own welfare, why would you want to work or try to "get out of the system"? 4 kids plus yourself your're making an easy 1500 a month, not including the other benefits. Have you been to the grocery store around the time welfare checks are in? You got people with 2 carts filled with t-bone steaks, filet mignon, 10 different kinds of pop, etc. Swipe that EBT card and buy their cigs on the cash side. Unfortunately, i see this WAY too much.

I have to give a drug test to work hard and EARN my money yet the government is HANDING money to people who are selling their food stamps to support their drug habits? Its all ****** up.

 

[solarius49]

I'm assuming you're under the age of 18, but while this is ideal, this isn't even a little bit realistic. Alot of people dont think in those terms unfortunately...but once again, what does having children have to do with receiving welfare? You can get welfare without having kids

I'm 26.

First thing i said was IMO. Ideal? Yes. Realistic? No. I can agree with you on that part. There are so many problems with today's society and people's views on things its whats bringing down America right before our eyes.

Its easier to get welfare with children, using the "single parent" mark on the application on the forms. If you're getting 300+ a month per kid, plus your own welfare, why would you want to work or try to "get out of the system"? 4 kids plus yourself your're making an easy 1500 a month, not including the other benefits. Have you been to the grocery store around the time welfare checks are in? You got people with 2 carts filled with t-bone steaks, filet mignon, 10 different kinds of pop, etc. Swipe that EBT card and buy their cigs on the cash side. Unfortunately, i see this WAY too much.

I have to give a drug test to work hard and EARN my money yet the government is HANDING money to people who are selling their food stamps to support their drug habits? Its all ****** up.

do you think $300 a month is enough to raise a child? One of my good friends got off welfare once her daughter turned 2 because that $300 isnt almost enough.....and can you imagine living in a 5 person household with a monthly income with $1500? Seriously? I couldnt live as a single man with a $1500 monthly income damn near. And ok, people are buying good food with their EBT cards, and thats a problem why? What would you rather them eat, ramen every day?

 

[andycrazn]

that death tax is a killer on the inheritances past a certain nominal amount anyways.

i dont care where my money is going because i personally feel that i shouldnt be taxed on my productivity. im fine with taxing on spending.
there are a lot of unintended consequences to government programs.

heres a quote from bastiat
i seriously do believe that it is an insurance policy to keep the masses from rioting. to keep them complacent and content. there was a theory that someone said that ive combined with my own regarding to that.

after the civil rights era we had the "war on poverty" this is when blacks are becoming more educated and was a "threat" to white america. they put this campaign out .

remember public housing used to be for middle and low income whites but they moved out of them.

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

taken from wiki

then theres the war on drugs that "coincidentally" had a lot of black men going to jail and crack poured into the projects. the unintended consequences to that is some whites got a hold of it which they shouldve expected. with the man out of the picture, big brother will take over as the man of the household and provide for the family that creates this dependency and white america is saved!

the safety net creates a dependency on staying near it. some of it could be of normalcy biased when theyve been on an entitlement program for so long. i dont blame the users on it for not getting off of it if they are on the right track. but theres no incentive to do so. its RATIONAL when you can be on section 8 housing paying 400 for an apt vs going to the free market and paying 1400 for the same apartment. so they stay near the safety net. its almost as bad as debt addiction. these programs are designed for people to be complacent and its almost like an insurance policy from the poor from rioting and throw votes to the policitians that benefit them the most.

 

[solarius49]

You're basically saying, how dare these people buy good food with their EBT. I know people who buy steak at the first of every month, and they put it in the back of their freezer save it for 1 sunday out of the month....how dare those kids eat steak once a month >:

and also, food stamps and welfare are not the same thing bro

 

[solarius49]

that death tax is a killer on the inheritances past a certain nominal amount anyways.

i dont care where my money is going because i personally feel that i shouldnt be taxed on my productivity. im fine with taxing on spending.
there are a lot of unintended consequences to government programs.

heres a quote from bastiat
i seriously do believe that it is an insurance policy to keep the masses from rioting. to keep them complacent and content. there was a theory that someone said that ive combined with my own regarding to that.

after the civil rights era we had the "war on poverty" this is when blacks are becoming more educated and was a "threat" to white america. they put this campaign out .

remember public housing used to be for middle and low income whites but they moved out of them.

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

taken from wiki

then theres the war on drugs that "coincidentally" had a lot of black men going to jail and crack poured into the projects. the unintended consequences to that is some whites got a hold of it which they shouldve expected. with the man out of the picture, big brother will take over as the man of the household and provide for the family that creates this dependency and white america is saved!

the safety net creates a dependency on staying near it. some of it could be of normalcy biased when theyve been on an entitlement program for so long. i dont blame the users on it for not getting off of it if they are on the right track. but theres no incentive to do so. its RATIONAL when you can be on section 8 housing paying 400 for an apt vs going to the free market and paying 1400 for the same apartment. so they stay near the safety net. its almost as bad as debt addiction. these programs are designed for people to be complacent and its almost like an insurance policy from the poor from rioting and throw votes to the policitians that benefit them the most.

but section 8, food stamps and welfare are 3 different things?

 

[andycrazn]

You're basically saying, how dare these people buy good food with their EBT. I know people who buy steak at the first of every month, and they put it in the back of their freezer save it for 1 sunday out of the month....how dare those kids eat steak once a month >:

if they didnt get any help from the government. those steaks would be out of their budget. thats like me being on welfare and buying a bunch of chips and drinks so i can throw a party or buy caviar with it.

 

[andycrazn]

but section 8, food stamps and welfare are 3 different things?

but it applies to all of em.

 

[solarius49]

You're basically saying, how dare these people buy good food with their EBT. I know people who buy steak at the first of every month, and they put it in the back of their freezer save it for 1 sunday out of the month....how dare those kids eat steak once a month >:

if they didnt get any help from the government. those steaks would be out of their budget. thats like me being on welfare and buying a bunch of chips and drinks so i can throw a party or buy caviar with it.

so.....you're mad because of what some other people get to eat once a month? Who cares? Its just so funny that you guys have these sweeping accusations, but havent mentioned any of the sort of fraud and abuse of the system that takes place on the corporate level every day. There are people who worked 40+ years and are retiring with no pension, but you think its worth abolishing a system that helps take care of Americans who need some help, because you saw some people get over on the system.

Just curious, for college, would you guys accept grant money, or only loans? Do you spend your entire refund check on books, or on some other stuff too?

 

[andycrazn]

so.....you're mad because of what some other people get to eat once a month? Who cares? Its just so funny that you guys have these sweeping accusations, but havent mentioned any of the sort of fraud and abuse of the system that takes place on the corporate level every day. There are people who worked 40+ years and are retiring with no pension, but you think its worth abolishing a system that helps take care of Americans who need some help, because you saw some people get over on the system.

Just curious, for college, would you guys accept grant money, or only loans? Do you spend your entire refund check on books, or on some other stuff too?

if i owned a small business for 40+ years where do i get my pension from? oh thats right i cant get it because i owned a business. its the companies choice to give their employees those benefits. thats why its called benefits.

i want those TBTF banks to fail. i want the whole banking system to come crashing down with their 700 TRILLION DOLLARS worth of derivatives. i want bernanke to stop printing money (that would mean he would be out of a job) so that he can keep the stock market higher. there shouldnt be any fractional reserve banking on this scale. i want those banksters that are connected to obama in jail. from JPM to GS and even BoA.

 

[andycrazn]

so.....you're mad because of what some other people get to eat once a month? Who cares? Its just so funny that you guys have these sweeping accusations, but havent mentioned any of the sort of fraud and abuse of the system that takes place on the corporate level every day. There are people who worked 40+ years and are retiring with no pension, but you think its worth abolishing a system that helps take care of Americans who need some help, because you saw some people get over on the system.

Just curious, for college, would you guys accept grant money, or only loans? Do you spend your entire refund check on books, or on some other stuff too?

i dont take any loans. my tuition is around 2k a semester so its easily affordable. i dont believe in college so im taking a break from it.
government aid has created an incentive to go to college. which dilutes the diplomas. thats why there are people with PHDs on foodstamps. one of governments unintended consequences smacking them in the face.

 

[tr1ll]

If you own your own business, I would hope you were smart enough to set up your own retirement fund.

Let ask you all a question. How do you feel about a person with a full time job, that pays their taxes, using food stamps to buy steak and shrimp??