Abolish the Welfare System in America Vol. Mature Discussion

[dro420]

I don't have a problem with "welfare". This is just a word for helping the less fortunate. However, despite Clinton's attempts at reform in 1994, it has started rearing its head back within the past 5-6 years. When unemployment pays more than taking a $10/hr. job, we have a problem. When you can get paid for not working 2 years, we have a problem. When EBT cards can be used at Pizza Hut, you have a problem. When the Department of Agriculture is actively soliciting people for food stamps, you have a problem.

How much would you like to tax them? Why not a flat tax so everyone is pulling their own weight equally?

Can you please cite an article that shows the super white wealthy people are the ones screwing us and they don't care?

YES all the politicians are white, therefore make laws that help out the rich people... I.E REGRESSIVE/PROGRESSIVE taxes... they always want to tax the poor, but why not give a higher % to the rich wealthy so it can spread the wealth evenly.... but it wont happen because if you ever talk to a rich person most of them are hateful against us people from the ghetto or not cut from the same cloth they were

 

[smangalang]

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2011...lionaires-collect-billions-in-taxpayer-money/
[h1]On The Money: Millionaires Collect Billions in Taxpayer Money[/h1][h6]December 7, 2011 12:07 AM[/h6]
You could call it welfare for the well-off. Taxpayers in America are literally giving billions to people who make millions. That’s right, millionaires are collecting welfare.

What do rock stars Bruce Springsteen, Jon Bon Jovi and basketball legend Scottie Pippen have in common? All three receive farm subsidies from the government, and they’re not the only millionaires getting a tax break.

In fact, the feds doled out $316 million in farm subsides to people with seven-figure incomes according to a report by U.S. Sen. Tom Coburn.

“Subsidies of the Rich and Famous” found the feds shelled out $74 million in unemployment checks to millionaires:

“The millionaires get them?” asked Margaret Chu as she was looking for work. “For being unemployed? You serious?”

The millionaire bailout is bitter medicine to those folks looking for work in a state with nearly 12 percent unemployment.

“Well it’s not fair,” Joseph Freeman said. “They’re millionaires. What do they need with unemployment?”

“I hear about this stuff all the time,” said another unemployed, Tyler Desart. “It’s just keeping the rich rich I guess, instead of taking care of the people who really need it.”

“That’s just wrong,” said Kevin Reich. The middle class, there’s no middle class no more. You’re either poor or you’re rich.”

Millionaires also received $89 million to preserve their ranches and estates, $75 million in residential energy tax credits and $9 billion in retirement checks, according to the report. Altogether, $30 billion in tax giveaways.

“This is the worst of crony capitalism,” said Jon Coupal of the Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association. “We see taxpayer dollars being give to those who really don’t need it. And this is something that we think the Tea Party organizations and the Occupy Wall Street people could agree on.”

Tax fighters and the Occupy Wall Street crowd are in rare agreement on this issue.

“It’s unfair,” said Occupy Sacramento protester Autumn Thomas. “Why should I have to take out a student loan and go to school? And people that already have a stable career and lifestyle are getting money handed to them.”

Nearly 1,500 millionaires paid no federal taxes in 2009, according to the report.

 

[fac3 tak30v312]

If the welfare system was abolished, only then would you see true change in this country. It is not a system based around keeping the poor fed and sheltered. Its purpose is instead to keep them numb, docile and ignorant. By the way OP less than 2cents of your paycheck goes towards the welfare system. You say you have a problem with unemployment benefits, with the lazy, lethargic ways of some minute amount of welfare recipients, yet that is exactly why the system was created. [That is not to say the truly thoughtful and well to do founders of this idea were not in the right place. Because to carry out plans like these you need the passion, empathy and arduous labor of a true believer]

There have been numerous articles posted on this site about the welfare system intended effects on minority household and about the system's widespread introduction during the civil rights movement. Educate yourself on the things you claim affect and effect your daily life. Yet you won't. Yet the path you follow is no more arduous than those you proclaim to dislike. Chess not checkers.

 

[mr marcus]

shouldn't be about race cause whites are on it more than blacks.....but for some reason welfare seems to be stereotyped as the "black" thing

 

[kote]

Welfare is essential in all modern democracys. It's a right.

 

[maliz]

Expert Level Troll

I'm almost certain this is a alternate SN. Sign into your reg account and lets discuss.

Either way, you sound idiotic There are so many holes in your logic and your argument. Maybe you should research welfare and it's many forms. Otherwise sit down and remain ignorant.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I've seen the topic of welfare come up in a lot threads on NT.


Discuss it.


I want it abolished because I'm tried of waking up every morning early to go to work, they are taking money out of my paycheck and taxing me...

to raise 5 kids from a lazy irresponsible mother

or a lazy person that is able dodied and doesn't want to work.


In order to prevent the welfare queens and welfare abuse...just end it completely. Stop it. Abolish it.

Sidenote: this has nothing to do with race. I just despise lazy people that don't want to work and want a free ride. If you are a tax paying law abiding citizen who is productive and works you feel my pain. Shell out money for lazy people who have kids and don't want to work?

So you hate paying taxes, and place the blame for you having to do so on poor lazy people that collect welfare

Please go look up how much of the budget is spent on "Welfare" for the poor, or as you view them "lazy", and see the huuuuuugggggge cuts in taxes you'll get

And I hear you brah, that single mom who can't feed her kids, screw her right? Let that bish and her kids starve. I mean no one told her to have those kids. Right!? Right!?

-Pull your shirt down B, ****** pay taxes on sheet they don't like errrday

 

[3stheluckynumbe]

Personally I think the welfare system should be overhauled. I believe there should be a time limit, give these welfare recipients time to figure out a plan sorta. Also I think instead of giving x amount of dollars, they should make that a voucher for school so these people can attain an education. Let them keep receiving food stamps for as long as they're in school. Also, it should be a requirement that you have to work or perform community service of some sort. Just my two cents.

 

[3stheluckynumbe]

Personally I think the welfare system should be overhauled. I believe there should be a time limit, give these welfare recipients time to figure out a plan sorta. Also I think instead of giving x amount of dollars, they should make that a voucher for school so these people can attain an education. Let them keep receiving food stamps for as long as they're in school. Also, it should be a requirement that you have to work or perform community service of some sort. Just my two cents.

I say this because to me, there's no greater feeling I get from going to work and knowing I can provide for my family. Welfare just gives people a crutch and breeds complacency.

 

[dipsetallday05]

abolish it? nah, i am proud to help someone who needs my help and can't help themselves
the system should be changed though in order to stop people from taking advantage of it.

Agreed.
I used to feel the same as OP till I thought more selflessly. Think about it, not all people on it are abusing it and for the ones not it really helps. Think of the people who have had parents that are struggling but that little bit of money they get is enough to feed their child and provide for them some what so their child can grow to do better.

I'm a living proof of this. If my folks, while i grew up didn't have things like food stamps or unemployment benefits, I wouldn't be in the position i'm in now. Its only money, dont let it make you have no compassion for those who actually need it.

Reform needs to be done or it needs to be more strict. I know girls who pop out kids just cause their trying to get that extra 8k a year from them. It's sickening. Or people on un-employment who go onto the website and just answer the question, collect their pay and smoke blunts all day (IS THAT NOT THE LIFE!!)

 

[smangalang]

shouldn't be about race cause whites are on it more than blacks.....but for some reason welfare seems to be stereotyped as the "black" thing

Where there is hate, there is reagan.

Spoiler: Welfare%20Queens

Definition: A "welfare queen" is a low-income woman, usually of African-American ancestry, who is accused of having children as a way of increasing her welfare payments.

The term originated among movement conservatives during the 1970s following several highly-publicized cases of welfare fraud perpetrated by women. The stereotypical welfare queen was described by Governor Ronald Reagan in 1976, during his first presidential campaign, as a woman from Chicago's South Side (i.e., a black woman) driving a Cadillac:

She has eighty names, thirty addresses, twelve Social Security cards and is collecting veteran's benefits on four non-existing deceased husbands. And she is collecting Social Security on her cards. She's got Medicaid, getting food stamps, and she is collecting welfare under each of her names. Her tax-free cash income is over $150,000.

No woman meeting this description has ever been found, and the story is generally regarded as fictional.

During the 1980s and 1990s, the term shifted from describing women who committed illegal welfare fraud to describing women who, legally, had children in order to collect social services benefits.

The term is similar in function to the term "anchor babies," which describes undocumented Latino women having children in order to avoid deportation. In both cases, low-income women of color are accused of becoming mothers under dishonest circumstances in order to exploit the U.S. government.
http://civilliberty.about.com/od/raceequalopportunity/g/Welfare-Queens.htm

Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!

http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/13127-reagans-welfare-queen-found
 
[h2]Reagan's "Welfare Queen" FOUND![/h2]Monday, 03 December 2012 16:17 By Thom Hartmann and Sam Sacks , The Daily Take | Op-Ed

Good news everyone, after more than thirty years of searching by the news media, Ronald Reagan’s infamous “Welfare Queen” has finally been found. She lives in Bentonville, Arkansas.
“She has eighty names, thirty addresses,” Reagan warned during his 1976 run for President about a nameless, Cadillac-driving woman who’s conning the social safety net. He added: “She’s got Medicaid, getting food stamps, and she is collecting welfare under each of her names.” In total, Reagan said, “Her tax-free cash income is over $150,000.”

For more than thirty years, Republicans have used the existence of this “Welfare Queen” to justify their attacks on public spending and prove that the “welfare state” has run amok. Yet, her identity has never been revealed. After decades of searching, the best and brightest minds in the field of journalism were never able to discover who’s behind the wheel of the “Welfare Queen’s” Cadillac, or if she even existed.

That is until now.

We now realize our mistake. In our search for this “Welfare Queen,” we were looking for actual people when we should have been looking for corporate people. We should have been looking at Wal-Mart.

Wal-Mart is the largest private employer and brought in more revenue in 2011 than any other company in the nation. Wal-Mart pocketed a not-too-shabby $16.4 billion in profits that same year and the six Wal-Mart heirs, the Walton family, own roughly $100 billion in wealth, which is more than 40% of Americans combined.

But, despite making all of this money, Wal-Mart’s business model hinges on mooching from the government. It hinges on being the biggest “Welfare Queen” in the United States.

Because of the “everyday low wages” that the retail giant pays its employees, our government has to step in and provide public assistance to Wal-Mart workers just so they can survive…which is why the Wal-Mart workforce represents the largest recipient of federal aid in the nation.

A Wal-Mart worker makes on average 31% less than a worker for any other large retailer, and requires 39% more in public assistance.

A recent study by UC Berkeley found that Wal-Mart’s low wages are costing the state of California alone $86 million a year to provide public assistance like food stamps and healthcare to the retailer’s 44,000 low-wage employees in the state. The state spends nearly $2,000 every single year on each Wal-Mart employee who can’t afford basic essentials like housing, food, and healthcare with their Wal-Mart paycheck.

In total, it’s estimated that Walmart stores loot more than $2.6 billion every single year from the federal government in the form of tax-payer funded public assistance to their employees. That includes more than one billion in healthcare costs associated with Medicaid, and $225 million in free or reduced-price lunches for school children of Wal-Mart employees.

And now, as reported by the Huffington Post, Wal-Mart is planning to loot even more from us taxpayers, as the giant corporation adopts a new healthcare policy that will deny insurance for any employees working fewer than 30 hours a week.

Wal-Mart routinely forces their workers into part-time schedules, working fewer than 30 hours a week, so many will lose their health insurance under this new policy. When asked for comment by the Huffington Post on how many workers will be affected, Wal-Mart declined to answer.

Make no mistake about it, while it may be individual Wal-Mart employees who are collecting government benefits, the corporation itself benefits tremendously.

If the government didn’t step in to provide food assistance, Wal-Mart couldn’t operate with a team of emaciated workers unable to lift ballets of canned foods or count back the correct change at the checkout lanes.

If the government didn’t step in to provide health insurance, then Walmart stores would be a breeding ground for infectious diseases since their employees can’t afford to see a doctor on their own.

If the government didn’t step in to provide school-lunch assistance, then parents who work at Wal-Mart may have less money to put gas in their car and may not even make it in to work.

How can a business succeed with a sickly, tired, tardy, or altogether absent workforce? It can’t.

And while most businesses understanding that a healthy, happy, productive workforce is good for business, Wal-Mart hasn’t. Instead, Wal-Mart, with its enormous fortune, has shifted this responsibility onto taxpayers like you and me. They are, indeed, among the biggest of the big welfare queens in America.

The only difference is Walmart actually exists and Reagan’s “Welfare Queen” doesn’t.

With the help of “Welfare Queen” argument, Conservatives have targeted individual Americans who rely on public assistance as irresponsible and argued that it’s time to end the “handouts.”

But in reality, it’s time we target the actual institutions of irresponsibility in America – Wal-Mart and the other corporate giants who don’t give enough of a damn about their workers to pay them a living wage stick us with the bill for their well-being.

If a corporation can’t afford to pay its employees enough that each worker can afford basic essentials like healthcare, food, and housing, then that corporation – no matter how big or small it is – shouldn’t be allowed to do business.

No more corporate Welfare Queens in America!
This piece was reprinted by Truthout with permission or license. It may not be reproduced in any form without permission or license from the source.

 

[mr brown]

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2011...lionaires-collect-billions-in-taxpayer-money/

[h1]On The Money: Millionaires Collect Billions in Taxpayer Money[/h1]

[h6]December 7, 2011 12:07 AM[/h6]


You could call it welfare for the well-off. Taxpayers in America are literally giving billions to people who make millions. That’s right, millionaires are collecting welfare.
What do rock stars Bruce Springsteen, Jon Bon Jovi and basketball legend Scottie Pippen have in common? All three receive farm subsidies from the government, and they’re not the only millionaires getting a tax break.
In fact, the feds doled out $316 million in farm subsides to people with seven-figure incomes according to a report by U.S. Sen. Tom Coburn.
“Subsidies of the Rich and Famous” found the feds shelled out $74 million in unemployment checks to millionaires:
“The millionaires get them?” asked Margaret Chu as she was looking for work. “For being unemployed? You serious?”
The millionaire bailout is bitter medicine to those folks looking for work in a state with nearly 12 percent unemployment.
“Well it’s not fair,” Joseph Freeman said. “They’re millionaires. What do they need with unemployment?”
“I hear about this stuff all the time,” said another unemployed, Tyler Desart. “It’s just keeping the rich rich I guess, instead of taking care of the people who really need it.”
“That’s just wrong,” said Kevin Reich. The middle class, there’s no middle class no more. You’re either poor or you’re rich.”
Millionaires also received $89 million to preserve their ranches and estates, $75 million in residential energy tax credits and $9 billion in retirement checks, according to the report. Altogether, $30 billion in tax giveaways.
“This is the worst of crony capitalism,” said Jon Coupal of the Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association. “We see taxpayer dollars being give to those who really don’t need it. And this is something that we think the Tea Party organizations and the Occupy Wall Street people could agree on.”
Tax fighters and the Occupy Wall Street crowd are in rare agreement on this issue.
“It’s unfair,” said Occupy Sacramento protester Autumn Thomas. “Why should I have to take out a student loan and go to school? And people that already have a stable career and lifestyle are getting money handed to them.”
Nearly 1,500 millionaires paid no federal taxes in 2009, according to the report.

this is trying to spin a story into something its not. its not welfare for the well off. aside from the rich receiving unemployment checks, i don't think anything above is fishy. farm subsidies, estate preservation, energy tax credits, and retirement checks? if you have opportunities to capitalize on these policies, why wouldn't you? the flip side is farm subsidies help keep food prices low, estate preservation leads to continued property taxes, energy tax credit help transition to sustainable energy sources, and retirement checks are the payoff for the large contributions to social security the rich were making when they were working.

the being said, tax reform and welfare reform are still very much needed

 

[reeeem0]

I've seen the topic of welfare come up in a lot threads on NT.


Discuss it.


I want it abolished because I'm tried of waking up every morning early to go to work, they are taking money out of my paycheck and taxing me...

to raise 5 kids from a lazy irresponsible mother

or a lazy person that is able dodied and doesn't want to work.


In order to prevent the welfare queens and welfare abuse...just end it completely. Stop it. Abolish it.

Sidenote: this has nothing to do with race. I just despise lazy people that don't want to work and want a free ride. If you are a tax paying law abiding citizen who is productive and works you feel my pain. Shell out money for lazy people who have kids and don't want to work?

Easy.

Sell drugs.

 

[651akathepaul]

I don't mind at all paying the system through taxes because for one, if it's broken down, I'm sure it isn't a great deal that's being taken from my paycheck. Secondly, I love helping people or those in need. I'm sure it is abused by some, but I try and think about those that truly do need it and are grateful to have it.

While it doesn't bother me that this system exists, I get the feeling that this system may be outdated. I haven't put much thought or paid much attention to this topic, but it just feels like there can be much better alternatives.

 

[mplsdunk]

I was unemployed for a few days a month ago. Then I realized I didn't have a job so I could finally fulfill my childhood dream of getting ebt. 200 a month for food now

Had to hide my number so its upside down.
View media item 163304

 

[goldenchild9]

Capitalism requires a social safety net to function.

I'm all for "workfare". Provide subsidies to the needy until you can find a job for them.

Welfare for the rich is the real problem.

 

[nationaltruckerdave]

shouldn't be about race cause whites are on it more than blacks.....but for some reason welfare seems to be stereotyped as the "black" thing

It's more whites on welfare than blacks because there are way more whites in this country..

 

[Master Zik]

Why am I being taxed and money taken out my paycheck for a being a responsible hard working productive member to society that contributes...

and the lazy, school drop outs, who dont get jobs and never work, have a bunch of kids....get a free ride?

the lazy welfare people should be kept away from the polls to vote!


how are you making decisions on my country? when you don't work?


im tired of looking after other people's snot noses....close your legs...dont work, don't have money, babydaddy not around...dont have kids

Who are you really mad at though OP? Tell us this personal story that has your jimmies rustled so thoroughly.

Did Tyrone from up the block get Keisha, his 8th baby mama pregnant again? Is Manuel celebrating his 13th son's 13th birthday? Is Buford about to get hitched with Kelly Sue despite having no job, education, or prospects? Are you seeing all this and thinking I'm working so hard yet not going anywhere in life?

Perfect SN and avy btw, Russy stay looking mad and salty.

 

[goldenchild9]

RustleWestbrook



MaybachMargiela is back.

 

[nationaltruckerdave]

RustleWestbrook



MaybachMargiela is back.

I was just in the music forum and by the way he posts, I knew it was MaybachMargiela

 

[va757va]

 Welfare just gives people a crutch and breeds complacency.

i think some of you wrongly look at ALL welfare recipients as lazy people who want to take advantage of the system....

i can tell half of yall are sheltered and never ever came close to having to need govt help....not yalls fault, i wish no one in america had to....

but ask anybody from the hood, i mean the hood hood..section 8...the bricks..the jects...whatever they call it where your from...

ask anybody from the hood and theyll tell you the people in their neighborhood that sell dope/lazy/ take advantage of the system are the minority by far....

EVERYDAY PEOPLE ON WELFARE WAKE UP AND WORK HARD JUST LIKE YOU...THEY PAY TAXES JUST LIKE YOU...HELL, IM WILLING TO BET THEY WORK MUCH HARDER FOR WAAAAY LESS THAN YOU!

people from the outside look at welfare recipients as lazy people who take advantage of the system....some of the most honest and hard working people i kknow are/were on welfare before...sometimes working hard isnt enough man...

i promise you, if yall dudes spent 1 day how i grew up...spent 1 day with literally NOTHING, yall would sing a diff tune...for sure...

 

[Grine]

Unless you struggled or been homeless, you can't really talk...

Nonetheless, I'm not struggling now nor my family, but that gov't helped my family during the times we needed it. It did what it was designed for...a temporary crutch to supplement income deprivement.

If you cut welfare, then unemployment assistance will be cut also...not a good look.

 

[3stheluckynumbe]

i think some of you wrongly look at ALL welfare recipients as lazy people who want to take advantage of the system....



i can tell half of yall are sheltered and never ever came close to having to need govt help....not yalls fault, i wish no one in america had to....




but ask anybody from the hood, i mean the hood hood..section 8...the bricks..the jects...whatever they call it where your from...


ask anybody from the hood and theyll tell you the people in their neighborhood that sell dope/lazy/ take advantage of the system are the minority by far....

EVERYDAY PEOPLE ON WELFARE WAKE UP AND WORK HARD JUST LIKE YOU...THEY PAY TAXES JUST LIKE YOU...HELL, IM WILLING TO BET THEY WORK MUCH HARDER FOR WAAAAY LESS THAN YOU!


people from the outside look at welfare recipients as lazy people who take advantage of the system....some of the most honest and hard working people i kknow are/were on welfare before...sometimes working hard isnt enough man...


i promise you, if yall dudes spent 1 day how i grew up...spent 1 day with literally NOTHING, yall would sing a diff tune...for sure...

Dude my mother was on welfare from the day I was born, so I've lived that life. All my mother wanted was to go to school and be a doctor, whenever she was in school she killed the grades. But if she can't pay for school how could she continue. I'm speaking from experience, I've seen it too much to not know if u make welfare recipients work for what you're giving for free then at least there's a chance they can advance themselves.

 

[va757va]

Dude my mother was on welfare from the day I was born, so I've lived that life. All my mother wanted was to go to school and be a doctor, whenever she was in school she killed the grades. But if she can't pay for school how could she continue. I'm speaking from experience, I've seen it too much to not know if u make welfare recipients work for what you're giving for free then at least there's a chance they can advance themselves.

so you should retract your statement that says welfare breeds complacency and gives people a crutch.

if your mom used gov assistance, and worked her ***** off during that same time, where is the comlpacency?  where is the crutch??

to me she is just another hard working mother who needed help making ends meet while trying to raise he kids..not a complacent person looking to the gov for a 'crutch'.

 

[benny bugatti]

It did what it was designed for...a temporary crutch to supplement income deprivement.
If you cut welfare, then unemployment assistance be cut also...not a good look.

Truth. The benefits of welfare far outweigh the drawbacks. My grandma was on welfare and all of her children turned out to be productive members of society.Without food stamps and other forms of social help, things would have turned out differently.

The reality is welfare is for the children moreso than the parents. Imagine if welfare was abolished. The states would either have to take in hordes of children, or let them die out on the streets because of something out of their control. You'd have to allow 9 year olds to work.

You may not like the abuses, but welfare is not going anywhere. Sorry duke.