Ask a former NIKE Basketball employee...

[vood99]

Pou Chen makes almost all Nike, adidas and Reebok shoes as well as many other brands.........It's funny that everyone argues over who's quality is better and who has less glue stains and stuff when they are all produced by the same huge factory conglomerate......
Also samples are always different in quality, because they are often made in model shops, not in the actual factory......I brought back an old brand and when you compare the initial first samples they made for me to the now final production model, there are many, many differences when you go over the shoe with a fine tooth comb....someone is literally making the samples by hand when compared to a production line final version
My stuff is not produced in Pou Chen, but from what I understand, Nike and Pou Chen have a deal where Pou Chen is guaranteed X amount profit on every shoe produced. They must show Nike a line sheet of every single material in the shoe and the cost, which Nike will closely examine since they know the prices since the materials are all being supplied as ordered by Nike from Nike suppliers.....they go back and forth and agree on the actual true cost of the shoe, and then the factory gets their guaranteed profit added on top of that.......

BigL, thanks for sharing your knowledge man! We need more cats like you on this forum. Are you resurrecting the 'Ewing' line by the way?

 

[vood99]

I dont want to sound dickish or anything but if you are on a message board asking or needing info on how to get a new account that store may not last long my man.


You need a business advisor.  Good luck though.

Same thing I thought Rock. Just what exactly is homie looking to sell? Gourmet, Greedy Genius - he'll have to shutter his store in a month or two at that rate...

 

[freakydestroyer]

Why, so the fans of DMX will not want to wear them?

People wear different brands due to the fact that they are NOT like other shoes. You may like zoom air, but I can assure you, there are many more who do not.

I like DMX , but the problem is these retros DO NOT have the actual technology in it. It's just inscribed on the shoe. Reebok lost the license to it or something like that they talk about it in the official thread.

 

[Bert.]

They need to sneak in some zoom air into those Reebok Answer IV's

Why, so the fans of DMX will not want to wear them?

People wear different brands due to the fact that they are NOT like other shoes. You may like zoom air, but I can assure you, there are many more who do not.

zoom air>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>*

its not even close

 

[longstroke]

zoom air>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>*
its not even close

You are entitled to your opinion.

But here's the thing, no other company has tried to emulate the formula, thus telling you that it's not as respected as you think it is. Wearers of running brands Asics and New Balance swear by their cushioning set up as well, and their popularity goes undaunted in the face of zoom.

I really don't understand as to why some seem to exist in this bubble where time refuses to elapse, and common sense tends to err on the side of nil. 

 

[longstroke]

Greeeeeeeeeat quality

Damned shame. That's all I can say.

Zoom Air didn't save these...

 

[nikedealer]

AKA you gotta realize people like me who like Zoom like it for their feet because its the best feeling set up provided for them. I agree Zoom aint for everyone and some people love a much firmer shoe or an Air Max but you cant say it aint that great if to me it is.

I've tried EVERY Air set up Nike has over the last 20 years and Double Stack, bottom loaded and Full Length Zoom are the best rides for me.  I think I mentioned it before... one of the things I do in my consulting business which is my actual FULL time gig, is Consulting to local AAU teams and high schools on what footwear to utilize for their players.

All too often each school settles for Nike sending them ONE type of shoe to wear for an entire team and at times, some of the players end up switching to something other than what they are sent and sometimes can lose their sponsorship if a Nike Rep attends a game and sees this.

Why do they switch out to something else and at times switching to another brand and having to black out the logo's?  Because one shoe can not possibly accomodate 12 different players playing different positions.  I do this aside from any affiliation with Nike as I also work with independent teams without Sponsorship to use different brands such as under armour.

 

[atomicnut]

What's your opinion on Under Armour in the footwear industry?

 

[longstroke]

AKA you gotta realize people like me who like Zoom like it for their feet because its the best feeling set up provided for them. I agree Zoom aint for everyone and some people love a much firmer shoe or an Air Max but you cant say it aint that great if to me it is.

I've tried EVERY Air set up Nike has over the last 20 years and Double Stack, bottom loaded and Full Length Zoom are the best rides for me.  I think I mentioned it before... one of the things I do in my consulting business which is my actual FULL time gig, is Consulting to local AAU teams and high schools on what footwear to utilize for their players.

All too often each school settles for Nike sending them ONE type of shoe to wear for an entire team and at times, some of the players end up switching to something other than what they are sent and sometimes can lose their sponsorship if a Nike Rep attends a game and sees this.

Why do they switch out to something else and at times switching to another brand and having to black out the logo's?  Because one shoe can not possibly accomodate 12 different players playing different positions.  I do this aside from any affiliation with Nike as I also work with independent teams without Sponsorship to use different brands such as under armour

Suggesting that zoom air, or any other cushioning system as best, is using a broad brush approach to its value.

 

[secretzofwar]

What's your opinion on Under Armour in the footwear industry?

One of my favorite topics. It's not necessarily that Under Armour is bad at it, it's that footwear is really hard.

Unlike Nike and adidas, which have tremendous bargaining power, UA doesn't have any, so it's important for them to do it right rather than early. They've tried many times and CEO Kevin Plank pounds the table...but the shoes sit. So you have DSG sitting on a bunch of shoes they need to clear out for $29.99 and they don't want to take another order.

As for basketball, let's be honest, we are a great target market. Very little price sensitivity and incredible demand. However, we want shoes from the stars (Rose, LeBron, Kobe) not Brandon Jennings. The products can be great (they are currently okay), but they sit it some weird part of Footlocker buried behind Nike and adidas. And Nike likes it this way -- and pays for it.

Right now there's no incentive for Footlocker or really DSG to help UA grow its footwear. UA needs a killer product (and endorser) to move it. If Cam Newton only played basketball.

 

[bryscooplaygrifhold]

I hear you on a killer endorser or someone pushing UA. I like Brandon Jennings ok- heck I am from MKE, but he isn't going to move shoes nationwide let alone regionally.

I hardly think Cam Newton could even save UA basketball just because his market is pretty limited as well with Carolina. I think Cam is great for football, but I am not sure that he is even as big as Mike Vick yet, and there is something overly arrogant, put-offish about Cam to me as an outsider looking in. Not terribly humble like say a KD or Drose.

Might be wrong, but UA would be best served looking for the next best PG prospect out there and working him hard. As much as that might bruise BJ3 ego, it would do a lot to boost their image amongst the young folks out there. Blake Griffin and Deandre Jordan ain't gonna cut it. Derrick Williams from Minnesota. Not so much. Kemba Walker might be a boost next year, but again, his market in Charlotte probably hurts. Now Lin in Houston? That might be worth a look for UA. Not sure what his deal is with Nike, but they better do what they can to keep him in play.

 

[secretzofwar]

Eh market doesn't matter as much as you think. The world is becoming smaller and smaller. What they need is a prodigy (LeBron sold shoes from Cleveland), not some run of the mill player or minor star.

I'd probably offer the world at Jabari Parker in a few years and offer him an MJ-like deal. It won't matter who he is if he can get the hype. If John Wall wasn't such a bust, Reebok would have done well for themselves.

Cam has more of a basketball player mentality i.e. Kobe, LeBron, etc. KD and D-Rose do the classic MJ --come off as humble but are really arrogant as can be. There's a reason why the Bulls got Boozer and not a bigger star.

 

[vood99]

AKA you gotta realize people like me who like Zoom like it for their feet because its the best feeling set up provided for them. I agree Zoom aint for everyone and some people love a much firmer shoe or an Air Max but you cant say it aint that great if to me it is.

I've tried EVERY Air set up Nike has over the last 20 years and Double Stack, bottom loaded and Full Length Zoom are the best rides for me.  I think I mentioned it before... one of the things I do in my consulting business which is my actual FULL time gig, is Consulting to local AAU teams and high schools on what footwear to utilize for their players.

All too often each school settles for Nike sending them ONE type of shoe to wear for an entire team and at times, some of the players end up switching to something other than what they are sent and sometimes can lose their sponsorship if a Nike Rep attends a game and sees this.


Why do they switch out to something else and at times switching to another brand and having to black out the logo's?  Because one shoe can not possibly accomodate 12 different players playing different positions.  I do this aside from any affiliation with Nike as I also work with independent teams without Sponsorship to use different brands such as under armour.

Rock hits the nail on the head here. Everyone has different biomechanics - and they SHOULD be allowed to wear whatever is comfortable for them. There should be no bias towards Zoom, MAX, DMX, etc... Just pick what works best for you.

 

[vood99]

Eh market doesn't matter as much as you think. The world is becoming smaller and smaller. What they need is a prodigy (LeBron sold shoes from Cleveland), not some run of the mill player or minor star.
I'd probably offer the world at Jabari Parker in a few years and offer him an MJ-like deal. It won't matter who he is if he can get the hype. If John Wall wasn't such a bust, Reebok would have done well for themselves.
Cam has more of a basketball player mentality i.e. Kobe, LeBron, etc. KD and D-Rose do the classic MJ --come off as humble but are really arrogant as can be. There's a reason why the Bulls got Boozer and not a bigger star.

Secretz, UA needs to hand out freebies to every 2nd or 3rd rate rapper/celebrity that they can find. Look at what the 'Ewing' brand is doing, UA needs to do that and generate some buzz and hype. Jennings in Milwaukee won't cut it and outside of the US nobody knows of this Cam Newton cat.

 

[kennyisdead911]

It's refreshing reading many posts on here from people who seem to have actually graduated college.

 

[longstroke]

I like DMX , but the problem is these retros DO NOT have the actual technology in it. It's just inscribed on the shoe. Reebok lost the license to it or something like that they talk about it in the official thread.

If they are not using DMX, I'm sure that whatever they've put in the shoe distinguishes itself from whatever that Nike is presently using. I know that I wouldn't want to put on a pair of Reebok shoes, then being reminded of something Nike while wearing them. 

 

[longstroke]

Rock hits the nail on the head here. Everyone has different biomechanics - and they SHOULD be allowed to wear whatever is comfortable for them. There should be no bias towards Zoom, MAX, DMX, etc... Just pick what works best for you.

No doubt, but Rock was alluding to something a bit different. He only mentioned Nike in his example. I read where he feels that only Nike makes good shoes, and that Zoom Air is worth an escalated price, if I am not mistaken.

Perhaps he can clarify.

Speaking of which, I remember talking to some of the cats on the U of Cincy hoops teams, back when Kenyon Martin was playing. They were putting actual steel inside of their shoes. What this does is to give you a stronger platform to jump from, allowing you to jump higher. Some players, those including myself, feel that cushioning setups like zoom, that soft and mushy feel, does not allow you maximum explosion upon sprints and jumps. While wearing it, it makes you feel slower. Then at times you can be wearing shoes that feature full length zoom, then while just standing still your feet would go numb. 

This wasn't a good thing.

 

[vood99]

No doubt, but Rock was alluding to something a bit different. He only mentioned Nike in his example. I read where he feels that only Nike makes good shoes, and that Zoom Air is worth an escalated price, if I am not mistaken.

Perhaps he can clarify.

Speaking of which, I remember talking to some of the cats on the U of Cincy hoops teams, back when Kenyon Martin was playing. They were putting actual steel inside of their shoes. What this does is to give you a stronger platform to jump from, allowing you to jump higher. Some players, those including myself, feel that cushioning setups like zoom, that soft and mushy feel, does not allow you maximum explosion upon sprints and jumps. While wearing it, it makes you feel slower. Then at times you can be wearing shoes that feature full length zoom, then while just standing still your feet would go numb.

This wasn't a good thing.

I can never wear Zoom based shoes for more than an hour for this exact reason.

The notion of using steel plates is interesting and it makes sense as you want your leaping/jumping platform to be as FIRM as possible. Wasn't the carbon fibre midfoot shank designed to do the aforementioned though?

 

[nikedealer]

No doubt, but Rock was alluding to something a bit different. He only mentioned Nike in his example. I read where he feels that only Nike makes good shoes, and that Zoom Air is worth an escalated price, if I am not mistaken.

Perhaps he can clarify.

Speaking of which, I remember talking to some of the cats on the U of Cincy hoops teams, back when Kenyon Martin was playing. They were putting actual steel inside of their shoes. What this does is to give you a stronger platform to jump from, allowing you to jump higher. Some players, those including myself, feel that cushioning setups like zoom, that soft and mushy feel, does not allow you maximum explosion upon sprints and jumps. While wearing it, it makes you feel slower. Then at times you can be wearing shoes that feature full length zoom, then while just standing still your feet would go numb. 

This wasn't a good thing.

No I wasnt saying I only suggest Nike.. I also suggest UA for non Nike schools and those not quite on a budget.

I also did not say I suggest ONLY Zoom.. I was saying FOR ME Zoom was the best set up...   in my consulting I have ONLY had experience with Nike and UA products... there fore I can only speak on those products and suggest from those standpoints.

Most schools and teams I speak with prefer Nike products, so we work around that.   I understand Reebok, Adi and others make good shoes and never believed Nike was the sole provider and only option in Basketball products.  That would be quite silly of me to think.  

However I have always stated I am brand loyal and know what I prefer. Its funny that I actually obtain more explosion and bounce from Zoom Platforms.  Also NO shoe is worth escalation of price... but for some whatever they like is worth it to THEM....

 

[longstroke]

I can never wear Zoom based shoes for more than an hour for this exact reason.
The notion of using steel plates is interesting and it makes sense as you want your leaping/jumping platform to be as FIRM as possible. Wasn't the carbon fibre midfoot shank designed to do the aforementioned though?

Yup, and that's where Nike got the inspiration from, U of Cincy players.

For years track and field athletes, both sprinters and high jumpers, understood this principle. 

 

[freakydestroyer]

Yup, and that's where Nike got the inspiration from, U of Cincy players.

For years track and field athletes, both sprinters and high jumpers, understood this principle. 

I am not a big fan of zoom air either. But I remember you saying you like the Jordan XX3, what do you find different in those?

 

[longstroke]

I am not a big fan of zoom air either. But I remember you saying you like the Jordan XX3, what do you find different in those?

I am a big fan of how the shoe was made, being worth the price, with Nike using premium materials on that shoe. Also, zoom air is incredibly, wildly inconsistent in regard to firmness and support. You may get one pair of shoes that feels incredibly supportive, then another that feels as if your are walking in quicksand. 

 

[nikedealer]

I think thats based on the Zoom set up. Like the Zoom Rookies.

They might as well have put EVA  all thru out and it would have felt better. Stick of gum zoom isnt zoom which is why I'll never say ANY Zoom is something worth getting.

The Hyperfuse Zoom... I dont dig it. For ME and for ME only.. I prefer FULL LENGTH... or DOUBLE STACK... 

As a matter of fact most of those Hyper kicks with Zoom have done nothing for me.  I actually like the Hyper Lunaer 2012.. its nice.  But still not as good as say the Zoom BB1 or 2k3 Jordan XII XIX

 

[longstroke]

I think thats based on the Zoom set up. Like the Zoom Rookies.

They might as well have put EVA  all thru out and it would have felt better. Stick of gum zoom isnt zoom which is why I'll never say ANY Zoom is something worth getting.

The Hyperfuse Zoom... I dont dig it. For ME and for ME only.. I prefer FULL LENGTH... or DOUBLE STACK... 

As a matter of fact most of those Hyper kicks with Zoom have done nothing for me.  I actually like the Hyper Lunaer 2012.. its nice.  But still not as good as say the Zoom BB1 or 2k3 Jordan XII XIX

Yes, I am certain that the placement of the air bags will dictate the feel as well, as the LBJ III has no mushy feel or bounce at all, especially after the sock liner is removed, which is what I do in all Nike shoes I've ever played in. I take out the insoles and then play in them. I've also busted the zoom air bags in a few Nike shoes, in order to get the firmness I desire. The Jordan XIX SE is one that I did that in.

However, I do remember that Nike had to use a new AIR formula in the air bags, then had issues with the bags retaining the new AIR, as there were issues with seepage. One shoe may have been firm, and the other would be soft and mushy. I heard this from many people, in person and then on the web.  

 

[nikedealer]

Actually that was well documented... but failed bags aside...All companies have defects and some even recalls... but I mean just on its basic premise of comfort to ME......

Zoom has spoiled me so much that I began trying shoes with Zoom in its name but became aware they all had different set ups and obviously learned in a much more close up manner the tech is used at times merely to be able to call it the Zoom such and such... as the tooling would not allow for Air Max or Full Max Air

This is why I've recently become obsessed with the Lebron X which uses both for a nice ride...