Blacks and Latinos in CA blamed for Prop 8 passing

[alchemiss]

Originally Posted by infamousod

Originally Posted by 718stylez

i've often heard people say that being gay is a choice.

i then ask them if being straight was a choice, and when did they decide to be straight?

straight people never question our sexuality, we just throw rocks at others.

being "straight" is what you're supposed to be. the whole point of sexual attraction is to procreate.

I restate: being gay is either a choice or a genetic defect.

sad, really sad.

 

[rko2004]

Originally Posted by JordanFiend85

I dont know if anyone saw the gay people in that church in Michigan, who interrupted it and started yelling "Its O.K. to be Gay" . Then they started throwing paper around and kissing and running around. Good job gays, this type of behavior only emboldens the opposite side. Gay people just don't get it.

SEE. And some people think once this stuff passes that gays wont try to pressure churches into marrying them. We'llsee. And then they are really screwing themselves over with doing that mess in a CHURCH!

And why do gay right supporters always resort to name calling? Ive seen a lot of it recently.

 

[peteweezy]

As always find a way to try to blame black, hispanics for every problem. Almost reminds me of the song "Blame Canada" from the South Park movie withdifferent lyrics. I'm getting as tired of this as white people are with blacks always blaming the man. Blacks and Hispanics were not the only ones notvoting for your movement but when in doubt goes racist it always seems to make people feel better. I'm starting to wonder if people are born racist or nothow stuff always seems to go when cats get angry and can't control themselves.

at people in general for their angry actions.

 

[rko2004]

Originally Posted by Peteweezy

As always find a way to try to blame black, hispanics for every problem. Almost reminds me of the song "Blame Canada" from the South Park movie with different lyrics. I'm getting as tired of this as white people are with blacks always blaming the man. Blacks and Hispanics were not the only ones not voting for your movement but when in doubt goes racist it always seems to make people feel better. I'm starting to wonder if people are born racist or not how stuff always seems to go when cats get angry and can't control themselves.

at people in general for their angry actions.

They just wanted it to go their way. THIS IS AMERICA. People can vote how they want. How are they going to say "this is America, let themlive, let them marry. Let them do what they want". But then when people vote how they WANT, they get butt hurt about it. Just like everyone doesn'tagree with us, everyone doesn't agree with you either. People aren't about go against their spiritual beliefs for anyone or at least theyshouldn't. Cry babies.

Originally Posted by Alchemiss

Originally Posted by infamousod

Originally Posted by 718stylez

i've often heard people say that being gay is a choice.

i then ask them if being straight was a choice, and when did they decide to be straight?

straight people never question our sexuality, we just throw rocks at others.

being "straight" is what you're supposed to be. the whole point of sexual attraction is to procreate.

I restate: being gay is either a choice or a genetic defect.

sad, really sad.

This guy wins the award for the single most ignorant post I've seen on NT this year, and that's quite the accomplishment believe me.

Our job is to procreate. That's one of the reasons we're here. I know some of you don't believe in God but He told us to procreate.

I really don't understand how you can argue against the fact that the penis is supposed to go into the vagina. and there's a very clear reason for a male having one organ and a female having the other.
Cosign. Its simple logic. Penis to Rear (where crap dwells) doesn't do anything for procreating.

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by Alchemiss

Originally Posted by infamousod

Originally Posted by 718stylez

i've often heard people say that being gay is a choice.

i then ask them if being straight was a choice, and when did they decide to be straight?

straight people never question our sexuality, we just throw rocks at others.

being "straight" is what you're supposed to be. the whole point of sexual attraction is to procreate.

I restate: being gay is either a choice or a genetic defect.

sad, really sad.

This guy wins the award for the single most ignorant post I've seen on NT this year, and that's quite the accomplishment believeme.

 

[infamousod]

Originally Posted by Alchemiss

Originally Posted by infamousod

Originally Posted by 718stylez

i've often heard people say that being gay is a choice.

i then ask them if being straight was a choice, and when did they decide to be straight?

straight people never question our sexuality, we just throw rocks at others.

being "straight" is what you're supposed to be. the whole point of sexual attraction is to procreate.

I restate: being gay is either a choice or a genetic defect.

sad, really sad.

I really don't understand how you can argue against the fact that the penis is supposed to go into the vagina. and there's a very clear reason for amale having one organ and a female having the other.

the sex for pleasure thing is understood, I believe dolphins are the only other mammal that shares that trait. still, it does not change the fact that thepenis and vagina have a clear purpose. and I believe there are logical reasons for higher cognitive level animals to be experiencing pleasure while lower levelanimals do not need it.

as far as other forms of sex, and the use of contraceptives etc, that's another (and a moral) discussion.

 

[alchemiss]

Okay, fam

So why did that even come up in this thread? Because we are validating the people who voted against prop 8, and people voted against it because a penis goesinto a vagina and people who get married have to procreate? Come on. The reasons people are coming up with are ridiculous. They are basically saying thatanyone who wants to get married has to prove they can or want to have children, they will never cheat on their spouse, the will never divorce, etc thusregulating all marriages until the people die. I know I'm gonna get the flames for this, look into the reasons and points yall are bringing up before yousay anything.

But if you were just saying it for a point, cool I get it. A penis is supposed to go into a vagina. I hate penises, not sexually attracted to dudes in anyway. Should I have been put in special ed or hospitalized because I have a deformity or should I join a religious camp to make me straight since hatingpenises was my "choice"?

 

[rko2004]

Originally Posted by Alchemiss

Okay, fam

So why did that even come up in this thread? Because we are validating the people who voted against prop 8, and people voted against it because a penis goes into a vagina and people who get married have to procreate? Come on. The reasons people are coming up with are ridiculous. They are basically saying that anyone who wants to get married has to prove they can or want to have children, they will never cheat on their spouse, the will never divorce, etc thus regulating all marriages until the people die. I know I'm gonna get the flames for this, look into the reasons and points yall are bringing up before you say anything.

But if you were just saying it for a point, cool I get it. A penis is supposed to go into a vagina. I hate penises, not sexually attracted to dudes in any way. Should I have been put in special ed or hospitalized because I have a deformity or should I join a religious camp to make me straight since hating penises was my "choice"?

No I think that was pointed at it being a choice. Marriage was started in the CHURCH. So let the CHURCHES decide with no state or governmentinterference. I'm sure the church leaders of around the country are able to decide is they want to allow it or not.

Do you want kids? And thats the first time I've seen that statement.

 

[infamousod]

I didn't bring religion or other moral issues into it for a reason, I also don't recall saying the shouldn't have some sort of right to marriage orsomething similar.

If you look back a lot earlier into the thread all I've said is that being is nothing special and not something to be especially proud of. if it's nota defect then it definitely is a choice, and a wrong choice as far as nature is concerned. if you want to get into a moral discussion I could do that too butI'm not entirely convinced in either direction. as Chris Rock pointed out: Michael Jackson got married, how sacred is that *(&$#?. and who wants tomarry a millionaire etc.

 

[alchemiss]

Didn't I address you saying it's a choice? It is not a choice for most people. Like I said in a previous post, there are some people who say"I'm tired of guys, lemme try girls" and vice versa, or young girls who do it because they think its fun. But the majority, DON'T have achoice. Speaking from my experiences, I'd much rather be straight and live a "normal" life, but I am who I am.

And I agree with you, it should be up to the church who they want to marry. But don't forget that people can go to court houses and get married as well. And also can get married by a pastor, priest, etc without having a wedding IN a church. I know of a lot of churches and figures in different religions whomwould marry gay couples.

*edit
Even though it's none of NTs business, I'm just posting this for my own sake, yes I do want kids. And there's more than one way to have a child.

 

[rko2004]

Originally Posted by Alchemiss

Didn't I address you saying it's a choice? It is not a choice for most people. Like I said in a previous post, there are some people who say "I'm tired of guys, lemme try girls" and vice versa, or young girls who do it because they think its fun. But the majority, DON'T have a choice. Speaking from my experiences, I'd much rather be straight and live a "normal" life, but I am who I am.

And I agree with you, it should be up to the church who they want to marry. But don't forget that people can go to court houses and get married as well. And also can get married by a pastor, priest, etc without having a wedding IN a church. I know of a lot of churches and figures in different religions whom would marry gay couples.

*edit
Even though it's none of NTs business, I'm just posting this for my own sake, yes I do want kids. And there's more than one way to have a child.

I'm not sure if the first paragraph was to me. But as far as the 2nd one. I'm not sure why whoever did it, took marriage out of the churchto begin with. Thats where it should stay. Now civil unions are another issue and I'm not sure why there wasn't something like a leveling to make themsimilar. Then I'm sure gays would take that and be happy with it but who knows.

If you wanted to you could have declined to answer. I would have respected that.

Stop bringing the God argument into whether or how people define/view homosexuality because not every religion or culture views homosexuality in a negative light.

Someone said God told us to procreate......then why do nuns/priests take vows of celibacy.

Are people who can't have children worth any less in God's eyes than those who can. Please school me on this. I thought love was the most important principle your religion was built on not procreation.

Nope. Dont care. Got my own beliefs. I'm speaking from my POV.

Don't know. I'll look into it later.

He loves all his children equally. But as for gays, its living in sin and them trying to marry isn't making himsmile.

I never said I didn't love them. I love everyone but I wont sin with anyone. And love is involved but keeping theword of God is the most important. I'm not perfect with it but I still try to better myself everyday.

 

[antonlavey]

Stop bringing the God argument into whether or how people define/view homosexuality because not every religion or culture views homosexuality in a negativelight.

Someone said God told us to procreate......then why do nuns/priests take vows of celibacy.

Are people who can't have children worth any less in God's eyes thanthose who can. Please school me on this. I thought love was the most important principle your religion was built on not procreation.

 

[alchemiss]

I get what you are saying, but what about the spiritual people who believe in God but are non-denominational? And when you say the church are you alsoreferring to institutions of Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Baha'i Faith, etc?

 

[infamousod]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Stop bringing the God argument into whether or how people define/view homosexuality because not every religion or culture views homosexuality in a negative light.

Someone said God told us to procreate......then why do nuns/priests take vows of celibacy.

Are people who can't have children worth any less in God's eyes than those who can. Please school me on this. I thought love was the most important principle your religion was built on not procreation.

as far as the Catholic church, priests and nuns take a vow of celibacy for worship purposes

as far as the Bible, it calls homosexuality a disease similar to thieving or murdering and it takes 4 generations to clear that out of the bloodline.

if it's not a genetic defect or a choice maybe it's that. but according to the Bible God has a reason for all those challenges and loves all Hischildren equally even if they don't do what He asks.

that's what the Bible says according to my memory, not necessarily what I say.

 

[infamousod]

Originally Posted by Alchemiss

I get what you are saying, but what about the spiritual people who believe in God but are non-denominational? And when you say the church are you also referring to institutions of Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Baha'i Faith, etc?

you would have to set aside a few years to answer that. which is why I stick to my original statement and say it is very much a choice or a genetic defect,probably the former.

edit: and I voted against it in my state because I don't want my future kids growing up in an environment where "it's ok to be gay" becauseit's not.

 

[rko2004]

Originally Posted by Alchemiss

I get what you are saying, but what about the spiritual people who believe in God but are non-denominational? And when you say the church are you also referring to institutions of Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Baha'i Faith, etc?

As far as non-denominational I don't really put a stamp on my head of what I am. I'm just someone who believes Jesus is my lord and savior and He isthe only way. I read the bible too. Hmmm on the second question, I'm not sure. I try not to get into other religions based off me not fully knowing aboutthem. But as for Christ followers or whatever people decide to label me or us with it supposed to be done within the church.

as far as the Catholic church, priests and nuns take a vow of celibacy for worship purposes

as far as the Bible, it calls homosexuality a disease similar to thieving or murdering and it takes 4 generations to clear that out of the bloodline.

if it's not a genetic defect or a choice maybe it's that. but according to the Bible God has a reason for all those challenges and loves all His children equally even if they don't do what He asks.

that's what the Bible says according to my memory, not necessarily what I say.
Hmmm taught me somethings.

Let me clear this up while I'm at it. I don't hate gays. Me debating here is just what it is debating. I love gays and everyone. I just don't agreewith the lifestyle.

 

[fraij da 5 11]

The same people that use Religion in this argument turn right around and start talkin bout procreation in terms of a means of furthering the species on someevolutionary trip... Hilarious.

 

[alchemiss]

I respect your views, because I believe in God and I am religious as well but my religion says homosexuality is something that people can overcome (which isone thing I don't agree with)

But my question to you is, why must people pick and choose so often but not admit it?

For example, you believe homosexuality is a sin, and validate your beliefs on homosexuality because of the Bible, like many others do as well. But what aboutother things the Bible say? About cheating, shellfish being an abomination to us, harming your children (even stoning) for disobeying, not trimming your beard,not cutting the sides of your hair, I could go on and on..

"Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, noreffeminate, nor homosexuals"1 Tim 1:9-10

Just one quote for example.. You also believe that people who are not married and have sex will go to hell, along with dudes who get manicures and theireyebrows done?

 

[infamousod]

if you're referring to me [fraij], I've been very clear in responding to questions about religion but not saying those are necessarily my beliefs. Ibelieve I've made myself clear on the two possibilities I believe to be the case.

I believe I used the word "believe" often.

 

[devildog1776]

Originally Posted by infamousod

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Stop bringing the God argument into whether or how people define/view homosexuality because not every religion or culture views homosexuality in a negative light.

Someone said God told us to procreate......then why do nuns/priests take vows of celibacy.

Are people who can't have children worth any less in God's eyes than those who can. Please school me on this. I thought love was the most important principle your religion was built on not procreation.

as far as the Catholic church, priests and nuns take a vow of celibacy for worship purposes

as far as the Bible, it calls homosexuality a disease similar to thieving or murdering and it takes 4 generations to clear that out of the bloodline.

if it's not a genetic defect or a choice maybe it's that. but according to the Bible God has a reason for all those challenges and loves all His children equally even if they don't do what He asks.

that's what the Bible says according to my memory, not necessarily what I say.

The bible also says : If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put todeath. Their blood shall be upon them


not my words

cant knock someones beliefs

 

[ago225]

this thread has a lot of diff opinion and views.

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by infamousod

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Stop bringing the God argument into whether or how people define/view homosexuality because not every religion or culture views homosexuality in a negative light.

Someone said God told us to procreate......then why do nuns/priests take vows of celibacy.

Are people who can't have children worth any less in God's eyes than those who can. Please school me on this. I thought love was the most important principle your religion was built on not procreation.

as far as the Catholic church, priests and nuns take a vow of celibacy for worship purposes

as far as the Bible, it calls homosexuality a disease similar to thieving or murdering and it takes 4 generations to clear that out of the bloodline.

if it's not a genetic defect or a choice maybe it's that. but according to the Bible God has a reason for all those challenges and loves all His children equally even if they don't do what He asks.

that's what the Bible says according to my memory, not necessarily what I say.

Ok I'm glad I've dispelled this notion that homosexuality is a defect or a choice......

So God created us the way we are, imperfections and all. In God's eyes homosexuality is a sin and a defect, yet he created us that way and forces us to goagainst our instincts. That's like creating God creating us as carnivores with all the tool equipped for hunting and killing animals and no enzymesavailable for digesting plants. yet requiring that we only abstain from meat. I guess there is no method to God's madness when it came to creation andorganization of this planet. Or maybe he's just one sick puppy.

 

[rko2004]

Originally Posted by Alchemiss

I respect your views, because I believe in God and I am religious as well but my religion says homosexuality is something that people can overcome (which is one thing I don't agree with)

But my question to you is, why must people pick and choose so often but not admit it?

For example, you believe homosexuality is a sin, and validate your beliefs on homosexuality because of the Bible, like many others do as well. But what about other things the Bible say? About cheating, shellfish being an abomination to us, harming your children (even stoning) for disobeying, not trimming your beard, not cutting the sides of your hair, I could go on and on..

"Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals"1 Tim 1:9-10

Just one quote for example.. You also believe that people who are not married and have sex will go to hell, along with dudes who get manicures and their eyebrows done?

Oh thats a good one. I don't know who will go to hell honestly. I will admit I don't follow everything thats in the bible. I'm notjudging I'm just say marriage should be left to the chuch and I don't agree with homosexuality or gay marriage. I don't really go near shellfishwhat so ever. But yeah I'm not perfect (OR ANYWHERE NEAR IT) just like every other person. I just try to help people avoid sin. But I will admit. I do havequestion some things. Because in todays world jobs like for their employees to be clean cut or no hire. So thats one I'll have to research more.

 

[infamousod]

Originally Posted by Alchemiss

I respect your views, because I believe in God and I am religious as well but my religion says homosexuality is something that people can overcome (which is one thing I don't agree with)

But my question to you is, why must people pick and choose so often but not admit it?

For example, you believe homosexuality is a sin, and validate your beliefs on homosexuality because of the Bible, like many others do as well. But what about other things the Bible say? About cheating, shellfish being an abomination to us, harming your children (even stoning) for disobeying, not trimming your beard, not cutting the sides of your hair, I could go on and on..

"Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals"1 Tim 1:9-10

Just one quote for example.. You also believe that people who are not married and have sex will go to hell, along with dudes who get manicures and their eyebrows done?

you need to be clear as to whether you're referring to me, RKO or whomever. I believe you are not referring to me but I'll play devil's advocateand say that the issues of those other "sinners" are a somewhat separate issue since we're discussing a particular one here.

not sure where the manicure thing came from but everyone sins. even still, one adulterous affair, one premarital sex act (or many), one murder in cold bloodetc COULD be seen as very different, especially when you later regret it, as oppose to getting married and happily feeling you've done good in the eyes ofGod despite constantly performing homosexual acts. COULD be...

gay people should go for some sort of health insurance exception or something and do it quietly, that's the only real chance at getting some benefits. notthat I would vote for it.

 

[fraij da 5 11]

Originally Posted by infamousod

if you're referring to me [fraij], I've been very clear in responding to questions about religion but not saying those are necessarily my beliefs. I believe I've made myself clear on the two possibilities I believe to be the case.

I believe I used the word "believe" often.

Nope wasnt talking to you, and not really anyone in particular, its just amazing to me how some people use what is convenient to them at thegiven.

Honestly, Ive seen too many of these threads and im not gonna sift through pages and pages of this stuff... Ive got my own opinions and i believe im right, noone on NT has shown me a good reason to change my mind in the last 5 years that ive been on here so im not going to argue this.

Skimming through a small bit of this and knowing what some peoples views have been on other issues and its amazing to see how some people change when it worksfor them. Thats all...

As for Prop 8... It's a damn shame that some people just cant let their fellow man live...