Breaking Bad Thread - "El Camino" - A Breaking Bad Movie on Netflix 10/11

[big j 33]

You're exaggerating to make Jesse seem worse than he really is.

Mike was a mentor to him and didn't manipulate him all the time like Walt. He obviously misses the guy.

He was distraught when Brock was poisoned. He's angry now that his partner had manipulated and lied to him AND put a kid in danger.

If that's how you feel about Jesse then I wonder your opinions on Walt

So cold blooded killers are mentors now? Mike didnt manipulate him? Mike's whole relationship w jesse was based on gus using mike to use jesse. When gus had the meet w the cartel goon, mike gives jesse a gun. But jesse wasnt being manipulated? Gus only saw something in jesse after mexico.

Everyone was manipulating jesse, only walt ever had his best interest at heart

Walt has his best interest at heart? Walt might have had moments where he cared for Jesse, but for the most part, everything Walt does serves his own end. Even that hug could be seen as Walt just adapting to a new method of manipulation.

How can you argue Mike wasn't a mentor to Jesse? Just because he's a fixer/cleaner and hired muscle, doesn't mean he's all bad. He didn't devise elaborate plans to trick Jesse into trusting him or anything like that, he was honest and straight up. How was giving him a gun manipulating him?

Jesse isn't 100% good/angel and Walt isn't entirely the devil, that's never been the argument (at least for me). But give me a break with "Walt had his best interest at heart". I know people still defend Walt, but let's not get out of control.

 

[hand2handking]

So when did walt not have jesse best interest at heart? Ill wait ( jus becuase walt benefits doesnt mean its not in jesse best interest)

Edit: like i said, gus used mike to manipulate jesse. Giving jesse the gun, the robbery setup, mexico, were all designed to give jesse confidence, bring him in, and use him and turn him against walt

 

[big j 33]

It doesn't really matter what I say, because judging by your replies, you'll twist and interpret it into "Walt only did that because he cares for Jesse" so what's the point?

 

[hand2handking]

Not at all im here for discussion jus tell me one time one walt manipulated jesse for walts sole benefit with no benefit to jesse

 

[harlemtothebronx]

What did Jesse get out of the whole ricin deception/poisoning of Brock?

 

[hand2handking]

He got out of andrea's life

 

[harlemtothebronx]

They were happy though, if I remember correctly.

Jesse was ready to step away from the meth game and move on with a family. Didn't Walt pull him back in?

I could be wrong. My memory sucks.

 

[hand2handking]

He got her hooked back on drugs too

 

[dhart48]

Not at all im here for discussion jus tell me one time one walt manipulated jesse for walts sole benefit with no benefit to jesse

when he stalled so he could hide the methlymine and he promised jesse his 5 mill but only got mike his, remember jesse "was out" at that point
everybody wins
i hope you are not taking my comments at all personal, i like the fact you said you were here to discuss and honestly everyone sees things different, so i'm open to everyone's opinions regardless if i disagree, it's a testament to how great the show is, my theory changes literally week to week

 

[hand2handking]

He still paid him tho he didnt treat him like a half measure

 

[dhart48]

yeah but he only paid him after walt decided HE was getting out...after skylar gave him the whole "how much is enough" speech, had she not done that walt would still be trying to jerk Jesse around, Walt knew what he was doing that's why he volunteered to get mike's bag, so jesse wouldn't screw up his plan to rub out mike or get the inmates

 

[CP1708]

at Walt did everything for Jesse best interest.

Jesse may not be an angel, but he is the shows "moral compass" in that at least he feels. He doesn't just go around getting everyone killed with a blank look on his face like Walt and Gus have done. The fact he feels guilty about the money and is trying to give it away, hell, he wanted to have Saul send money to people he doesn't even know, just because.

That's a helluva lot more morality than any other character has represented up to this point.

And maybe that's the point. Breaking BAD, might mean that all these folks are bad in some way, but the lesser of all the evil's is Jesse. The one who's been tossed around at every turn, but Walt, by Gus, by Tuco, even all the way back to Crazy 8. Jesse is never in control, even his own folks kicked him out, for something he didn't do. But he took the rap for that one too.

Being treated like that your whole life, how could he break "good'?

 

[bamez]

I don't know how to explain this, but before we had clocks, people used sun dials to measure time.  Shadows moving around sun dials to determine how much time was left for daylight.

In the 2nd episode of season 5B, Jesse was laying down on a spinning carousel with the shadows moving around him, much like a sun dial, signifying Jesse doing time

 amireachin?

 

[dhart48]

^^i think alittle bit...maybe if that scene took place in the daytime and the shadow on the carousel was very distinct...you might be on to something but no

 

[bamez]

I feel like Walt really does care for Jesse, but when it all comes down to it, if lives are on the line... Walt don't care about anyone else's interests...

 

[bamez]

double...

 

[bamez]

I don't know how to explain this, but before we had clocks, people used sun dials to measure time.  Shadows moving around sun dials to determine how much time was left for daylight.

In the 2nd episode of season 5B, Jesse was laying down on a spinning carousel with the shadows moving around him, much like a sun dial, signifying Jesse doing time

 amireachin?

http://blog.commarts.wisc.edu/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/jessegif.gif

 

[coldcity]

it was kinda exactly how the cam was spinning on walt when he found out sky gave ted B his $$$

 

[Maximus Meridius]

You're exaggerating to make Jesse seem worse than he really is.

Mike was a mentor to him and didn't manipulate him all the time like Walt. He obviously misses the guy.

He was distraught when Brock was poisoned. He's angry now that his partner had manipulated and lied to him AND put a kid in danger.

If that's how you feel about Jesse then I wonder your opinions on Walt

So cold blooded killers are mentors now? Mike didnt manipulate him? Mike's whole relationship w jesse was based on gus using mike to use jesse. When gus had the meet w the cartel goon, mike gives jesse a gun. But jesse wasnt being manipulated? Gus only saw something in jesse after mexico.

Everyone was manipulating jesse, only walt ever had his best interest at heart

Not at all im here for discussion jus tell me one time one walt manipulated jesse for walts sole benefit with no benefit to jesse

Is that you Flynn?



Like somebody already said, nobody on this show is "The good guy" or "The bad guy". From day 1 Walt and Jesse have done some f'ed up stuff to survive. Walt is just smarter and knows how to manipulate people.

 

[bamez]

Not at all im here for discussion jus tell me one time one walt manipulated jesse for walts sole benefit with no benefit to jesse

Told him to kill Gale.  How does that benefit Jesse?

 

[hand2handking]

at Walt did everything for Jesse best interest.

Jesse may not be an angel, but he is the shows "moral compass" in that at least he feels. He doesn't just go around getting everyone killed with a blank look on his face like Walt and Gus have done. The fact he feels guilty about the money and is trying to give it away, hell, he wanted to have Saul send money to people he doesn't even know, just because.

That's a helluva lot more morality than any other character has represented up to this point.

And maybe that's the point. Breaking BAD, might mean that all these folks are bad in some way, but the lesser of all the evil's is Jesse. The one who's been tossed around at every turn, but Walt, by Gus, by Tuco, even all the way back to Crazy 8. Jesse is never in control, even his own folks kicked him out, for something he didn't do. But he took the rap for that one too.

Being treated like that your whole life, how could he break "good'?

ok jesse can show that has feelings, thats great but im not going to forgive him or his behavior because of it. 

jesse wasnt an innocent bystander at any point, he was an active participant.  his own action and inaction led to what happens to him, im not going to entirley absolve him of responsibility for jane or andrea or gale.  like someone else said, if jesse didnt kill gale they were both dead, so it benefited him to kill gale as well.  just because jesse agonizes, im not going call it morality.  if you hooked you girlfriend back on drugs, then she died, would you turn around and decide steal meth from your boss (which he will kill you for) and sell it to recovering addicts?  this is a person who anguishes over his actions, yet he provides a pad for meth heads to binge out?  but he cares so much about how his actions affect people? 

Is that you Flynn?

Like somebody already said, nobody on this show is "The good guy" or "The bad guy". From day 1 Walt and Jesse have done some f'ed up stuff to survive. Walt is just smarter and knows how to manipulate people.

you are the 4th person to say this, once again that is not what i am discussing at all. 

Told him to kill Gale.  How does that benefit Jesse?

jesse killed gale because if he didnt he was dead too, as previously stated.

 

[coldcity]

Not at all im here for discussion jus tell me one time one walt manipulated jesse for walts sole benefit with no benefit to jesse

Told him to kill Gale.  How does that benefit Jesse?

to stay alive

 

[hand2handking]

as far as how i see walt, its like this:  walt has been the victim of peoples selfishness and greed from day one.  he has been exploited time and time again.  beginning with gray matter of course, then solely imo, his relationship w skylar to begin with (i feel as if she pushed him into a relationship, then marriage, then kids, then the teaching job), krazy 8 wanted to steal the recipe then force him into servitude, tuco wanted to kidnap him and take him to mexico, and gus wanted to steal his recipe thru gale.  even mike was trying to extort "his people's" money from him.  as soon as he got the opportunity to simply cook, and profit, he retired.

i have never said walt was a good person. all i was trying to say is jesse is not the moral compass.

 

[thatpersianguy]

I don't know how to explain this, but before we had clocks, people used sun dials to measure time.  Shadows moving around sun dials to determine how much time was left for daylight.

In the 2nd episode of season 5B, Jesse was laying down on a spinning carousel with the shadows moving around him, much like a sun dial, signifying Jesse doing time

 amireachin?

I was thinking that it was the start of him spinning out of control. That overhead camera shot shows him spinning slowly. As the episode(s) went on, little by little, he got more and more agitated. From spinning slowly on the carousel to the face-to-face with Hank, to the emotional meeting in the desert with Walt, to his grand realization, to going HAM on Saul, and then finally to break into Walt's home and act like a mad man. He's lost control.

 

[CP1708]

as far as how i see walt, its like this:  walt has been the victim of peoples selfishness and greed from day one.  he has been exploited time and time again.  beginning with gray matter of course, then solely imo, his relationship w skylar to begin with (i feel as if she pushed him into a relationship, then marriage, then kids, then the teaching job), krazy 8 wanted to steal the recipe then force him into servitude, tuco wanted to kidnap him and take him to mexico, and gus wanted to steal his recipe thru gale.  even mike was trying to extort "his people's" money from him.  as soon as he got the opportunity to simply cook, and profit, he retired.

i have never said walt was a good person. all i was trying to say is jesse is not the moral compass.

Well, I guess I feel that Jesse was neglected as a baby, and didn't get the proper care from his mother and father, and in kindergarten, he wasn't given enough attention to help him learn, and in fact, when he was in Mr. White's class, Walt abused him even further because he wrote on his paper "F, ridiculous, apply yourself" only further hurting Jesse's self esteem......


this what we're doin now? Conjecture about the first 50 years of Walt's life that explains why he is in the Empire business?