California propositions thread: Props 1,2,3,8,9,11,12 Pass, Props 4,5,6,7,10 fail

[oh you mad]

Watching from the sidelines

 

[dl2352]

I remember someone putting up a bunch of verses that were only a couple of verses away from the Old Testament verses on homosexuality. There was stuff likeyou'd be killed for slandering your parents, killed for having sex with a chick on her period, that it was wrong to eat shellfish, and etc.

Also to back up the slavery point, there were better verses that were much more explicit. Something about it being okay to enslave the surrounding nations.

All of this stuff was in the original Prop 8 thread.

edit: I don't see how it's so ridiculous to compare the gay community's fight for rights to that of the civil rights movement. Is it really thatfarfetched to compare? Both minority groups. Both denied basic rights by the majority. Both had laws passed to effectively make them second class citizens.Both told separate but equal was good enough. The only reason I can see you guys downplaying the gay community's fight for rights is because of your ownpersonal views regarding homosexuality.

 

[da xplicit one]

Man was indeed commanded to write the bible by our Lord Jesus Christ through Moses, but man is flawed by nature and strive to create themselves in theLord's image. So is the Bible perfect? Have you actually read the ENTIRE Bible and the various versions. If you answer no, then you can't talk aboutit.

As for the foundation of the United States, we were created because we wanted religious freedom in the first place. So why arewe imposing religion upon people again now if our intentions initially were to separate church and state?

Everyone does NOT worship a single God and that is what makes this country so diverse. So do not imply we all have to live by the rules of popular religionbecause that is arrogant.

Anyone who uses the bible as ammunition, can't pick and choose what they believe in, tell me, please tell me, does that mean do you not engagein premarital sex? eat meat? eat shellfish? hold a grudge on someone? moments of pride? lie? get drunk? talk about someone behind their back? use "oh mygod" in a statement? tell me, pleaaaase tell me.

if you're going to use the bible, tell me why aren't there laws to ban these things in this country? tell me!

you can't freely post your opinion without backing it up. so tell me, do you not do any of the things i listed? tell me.

 

[outacontrol music]

Originally Posted by gko2408

I don't believe that there is a definitive answer as to whether or not homosexuality is biological trait or not, so neither of you are right.
I tend to believe that homosexuality is biological in nature though. Think about it. CHOOSING to be be sexually attracted to men. Go outside right now and try that. Look at a man and tell yourself how hot he is. Imagine yourself making out with him and enjoying it.

You wayyyyy off base dude.

People can vote however they like. Most people vote on issues like this based on THEIR morals. Thats the great thing about America. Everyone can vote.

And you gotta understand that this country was founded on Christian beliefs.

If Muslims banned pork, then you got two choices, live with it, or move to another country.

The problem I have with that is that your beliefs impede upon the rights of fellow citizens in this country. What you are essentially saying when you vote for the banning of gay marriage is that homosexuals are not equal to you and, in fact, below you. The goes against everything that our Constitution and the ideals of America stand for.



For your first comment, I think it's something deeper than biology.

With my beliefs, I feel it is a spiritual/psychological issue.


For your second comment, my voice = any other Americans voice.

It's just the way this Country is. Majority wins...

Its not impeding my beliefs on anyone, it's just standing up for what I believe. That's my right as an American

 

[throwedindagame]

Can somebody explain to me why people are protesting in Cali? the majority of the population voted against gay marriage. How more democratic can you get?Majority rules...better luck next time.

 

[pj and bompton]

Originally Posted by Untitled

Originally Posted by 703 Hwy

Originally Posted by BwooDFolkGD74

older the I get , the more i think.

why would someone choose to be gay?

Accordingt to NT it's not a choice, dumbest thing i've heard in my life

it's clearly a choice, a bad one but still a choice.

it gets me mad that homosexuals would try to compare the black struggle to that of homosexuals.....i mean really....stop it.

$!!! this. i'm sick of this %$!+%@!!. IT'S NOT THAT !%%@+@% HARD TO UNDERSTAND. RIGHTS ARE BEING TAKEN AWAY FROM AMINORITY. IT'S THAT SIMPLE. IF THIS WERE A RACE ISSUE THERE IS NO WAY THAT BILL WOULD HAVE PASSED BUT BECAUSE THE ISSUE IS SOMETHING MOST PEOPLE THINK ISWRONG BECAUSE OF "FACTS" IS STRAIGHT %$!+%@!!. If you can't see the comparison between the two you are straight up a !%%@+@%MORON.

edit -

edit: I don't see how it's so ridiculous to compare the gay community's fight for rights to that of the civil rights movement. Is it really that farfetched to compare? Both minority groups. Both denied basic rights by the majority. Both had laws passed to effectively make them second class citizens. Both told separate but equal was good enough. The only reason I can see you guys downplaying the gay community's fight for rights is because of your own personal views regarding homosexuality.
there we go.

 

[in the line for viis]

I think there's a bit of a fight for semantics here. Just by reading Wikipedia, the word "marriage" is rooted in religion. When the word"marriage" first started being used, it was to describe only men and women, EVEN THOUGH SAME SEX COUPLES WERE COMMON. The first time thestate/government got involved in marriage was with John Calvin and protestant Christians, who said that marriage needed to be registered with the governmentand consecrated by the Church. Before this, "There was no state involvement in marriage and personal status, with these issues being adjudicated inecclesiastical courts." Ecclesiastical courts meaning the church.

So governments had no say over your status at all. If the church said you were married THAT meant that you were "officially" (as official as it couldget back then) married.

So the root of the word "marriage" is in the Church between man and woman. Even now, if you look up the word marriage on dictionary.com thedefinition is "the social institution under which a man and woman establish their decision to live as husband and wife by legal commitments, religiousceremonies, etc."

What if we were to put a measure where "Civil Unions" had all the tax rights, etc and just replaced the word marriage? I wonder if that would pass?

 

[jae oh en]

Originally Posted by outacontrol music

@ you putting a

next to your original comment. Racist fam....

...it's sarcasm fam. i knew the comment was ridiculous and wasn't true at all. point i'm making is that it's unfair todeny a minority group rights in 2008 because a book written two thousand years ago said that same minority group is destined for an eternity in hell.there's a ton of themes in the bible that were relevant then, but not at all now. get where i'm coming from? im not saying yall support slavery, or ami even slightly comparing slavery to homosexuality. thought that was kinda obvious

 

[mdterps4]

People aren't born gay, simple as that. It's unnatural... The main purpose of every animal on this earth is to reproduce and preserve the species andyou obviously can't do that if you're gay.

Gay marriage wouldn't affect me though, so I would probably have voted no if I lived in Cali. But some of ya'll acting like gay people can't helpbut turn down the P for some D, that's absurd in my opinion.

 

[dl2352]

Originally Posted by ThrowedInDaGame

Can somebody explain to me why people are protesting in Cali? the majority of the population voted against gay marriage. How more democratic can you get? Majority rules...better luck next time.

With that mentality, we'd get no where as a nation. California prides itself as being the most progressive state in the US. The fact that thismeasure passed by the slimmest of margins (about 4 points?) is pretty telling. Supporters of gay marriage aren't going to take this without putting up afight. There's a clear divide right now. One side feels that they can strip rights away from a minority group because it conflicts with their own personalvalues. The other side is fighting for what they feel is a basic right they as Americans, as Californians, deserve. Is there ever a good reason that one groupof Americans shouldn't have the same rights as the vast majority of citizens?

 

[bangtcg]

Originally Posted by MDterps4

People aren't born gay, simple as that. It's unnatural... The main purpose of every animal on this earth is to reproduce and preserve the species and you obviously can't do that if you're gay.

Gay marriage wouldn't affect me though, so I would probably have voted no if I lived in Cali. But some of ya'll acting like gay people can't help but turn down the P for some D, that's absurd in my opinion.

you must be stupid or thick headed. check out my posts a few posts up. and btw, it is natural because we see it in the animal kingdom from 1500species of animals

 

[mdterps4]

Originally Posted by bangtcg

Originally Posted by MDterps4

People aren't born gay, simple as that. It's unnatural... The main purpose of every animal on this earth is to reproduce and preserve the species and you obviously can't do that if you're gay.

Gay marriage wouldn't affect me though, so I would probably have voted no if I lived in Cali. But some of ya'll acting like gay people can't help but turn down the P for some D, that's absurd in my opinion.

you must be stupid or thick headed. check out my posts a few posts up. and btw, it is natural because we see it in the animal kingdom from 1500 species of animals

Do you have proof that these animals are homosexuals, or do they just hump anything in site. Because I'm sure these "gay" animalsjust want to reproduce, but they're too "stupid" or "thick headed" to know better. I have a dog that used to hump any other dog insite, male or female. It's just a sexual urge because every species is on this earth for one reason, preserving it's species and reproducing, simpleas that.

Like I said, if I lived in Cali I probably would have voted no on banning gay marriage. I could care less about gay marriage because it doesn't affect meone way or the other as long as dudes aren't tryin' to holler at me. But in no way do I think people are born gay. I think it's more of theenvironment one grows up in.

 

[bangtcg]

Originally Posted by MDterps4

Do you have proof that these animals are homosexuals, or do they just hump anything in site. Because I'm sure these "gay" animals just want to reproduce, but they're too "stupid" or "thick headed" to know better. I have a dog that used to hump any other dog in site, male or female. It's just a sexual urge because every species is on this earth for one reason, preserving it's species and reproducing, simple as that.

Like I said, if I lived in Cali I probably would have voted no on banning gay marriage. I could care less about gay marriage because it doesn't affect me one way or the other as long as dudes aren't tryin' to holler at me. But in no way do I think people are born gay. I think it's more of the environment one grows up in.

http://www.news-medical.net/?id=20718

[h2]Homosexuality is quite common in the animal kingdom, especially among herding animals. Many animals solve conflicts by practicing same gender sex.[/h2]
From the middle of October until next summer the Norwegian Natural History Museum of the University of Oslo will host the first exhibition that focuses on homosexuality in the animal kingdom.

"One fundamental premise in social debates has been that homosexuality is unnatural. This premise is wrong. Homosexuality is both common and highly essential in the lives of a number of species," explains Petter Boeckman, who is the academic advisor for the "Against Nature's Order?" exhibition.

The most well-known homosexual animal is the dwarf chimpanzee, one of humanity's closes relatives. The entire species is bisexual. Sex plays an conspicuous roll in all their activities and takes the focus away from violence, which is the most typical method of solving conflicts among primates and many other animals.

"Sex among dwarf chimpanzees is in fact the business of the whole family, and the cute little ones often lend a helping hand when they engage in oral sex with each other."

Lions are also homosexual. Male lions often band together with their brothers to lead the pride. To ensure loyalty, they strengthen the bonds by often having sex with each other.

Homosexuality is also quite common among dolphins and killer whales. The pairing of males and females is fleeting, while between males, a pair can stay together for years. Homosexual sex between different species is not unusual either. Meetings between different dolphin species can be quite violent, but the tension is often broken by a "sex orgy".

Homosexuality is a social phenomenon and is most widespread among animals with a complex herd life.

Among the apes it is the females that create the continuity within the group. The social network is maintained not only by sharing food and the child rearing, but also by having sex. Among many of the female apes the sex organs swell up. So they rub their abdomens against each other," explains Petter Bockman and points out that animals have sex because they have the desire to, just like we humans.

Homosexual behaviour has been observed in 1,500 animal species.

"We're talking about everything from mammals to crabs and worms. The actual number is of course much higher. Among some animals homosexual behaviour is rare, some having sex with the same gender only a part of their life, while other animals, such as the dwarf chimpanzee, homosexuality is practiced throughout their lives."

Animals that live a completely homosexual life can also be found. This occurs especially among birds that will pair with one partner for life, which is the case with geese and ducks. Four to five percent of the couples are homosexual. Single females will lay eggs in a homosexual pair's nest. It has been observced that the homosexual couple are often better at raising the young than heterosexual couples.

When you see a colony of black-headed gulls, you can be sure that almost every tenth pair is lesbian. The females have no problems with being impregnated, although, according to Petter Boeckman they cannot be defined as bisexual.

"If a female has sex with a male one time, but thousands of times with another female, is she bisexual or homosexual? This is the same way to have children is not unknown among homosexual people."

Indeed, there is a number of animals in which homosexual behaviour has never been observed, such as many insects, passerine birds and small mammals.

"To turn the approach on its head: No species has been found in which homosexual behaviour has not been shown to exist, with the exception of species that never have sex at all, such as sea urchins and aphis. Moreover, a part of the animal kingdom is hermaphroditic, truly bisexual. For them, homosexuality is not an issue."

Petter Bockman regrets that there is too little research about homosexuality among animals.

"The theme has long been taboo. The problem is that researchers have not seen for themselves that the phenomenon exists or they have been confused when observing homosexual behaviour or that they are fearful of being ridiculed by their colleagues. Many therefore overlook the abundance of material that is found. Many researchers have described homosexuality as something altogether different from sex. They must realise that animals can have sex with who they will, when they will and without consideration to a researcher's ethical principles."

One example of overlooking behaviour noted by Petter Bockman is a description of mating among giraffes, when nine out of ten pairings occur between males.

"Every male that sniffed a female was reported as sex, while anal intercourse with orgasm between males was only "revolving around" dominance, competition or greetings.

Masturbation is common in the animal kingdom.

"Masturbation is the simplest method of self pleasure. We have a Darwinist mentality that all animals only have sex to procreate. But there are plenty of animals who will masturbate when they have nothing better to do. Masturbation has been observed among primates, deer, killer whales and penguins, and we're talking about both males and females. They rub themselves against stones and roots. Orangutans are especially inventive. They make dildos of wood and bark," says Petter Boeckman of the Norwegian Natural History Museum.


and you still havent responded to my medical journals that i posted. what do you have to say about that?

 

[mdterps4]

^
Where's the genetic trait that determines sexual preference? The complete Human Genome has been uncovered, and scientists have no problem determining eyecolor for example given DNA, so why can't they determine sexual preference given DNA? Is it because there isn't such a gene? Probably.

 

[frankie calentino]

Originally Posted by MDterps4

^
Where's the genetic trait that determines sexual preference? The complete Human Genome has been uncovered, and scientists have no problem determining eye color for example given DNA, so why can't they determine sexual preference given DNA? Is it because there isn't such a gene? Probably.

But why would you willingly want to be ridiculed by a large part of society? Why would you try so hard to convince yourself you're straight, get marriedand have kids and still come out? Because it's fun?

 

[bangtcg]

Originally Posted by MDterps4

^
Where's the genetic trait that determines sexual preference? The complete Human Genome has been uncovered, and scientists have no problem determining eye color for example given DNA, so why can't they determine sexual preference given DNA? Is it because there isn't such a gene? Probably.

perhaps because its not through DNA? duh. i never said it was through DNA. its a combination of environment, hormones, and biological influences. studieshave overwhelming suggested that it develops. it isnt a conscious choice.

obviously you have nothing to say about how "natural" homosexuality is in the animal kingdom, so you are conceding in that premise?

listen, its really is hard to argue against studies and research when all you have is indoctrinated ideas.

 

[jae oh en]

Originally Posted by Frankie CALentino

Originally Posted by MDterps4

^
Where's the genetic trait that determines sexual preference? The complete Human Genome has been uncovered, and scientists have no problem determining eye color for example given DNA, so why can't they determine sexual preference given DNA? Is it because there isn't such a gene? Probably.

But why would you willingly want to be ridiculed by a large part of society? Why would you try so hard to convince yourself you're straight, get married and have kids and still come out? Because it's fun?

seriously. if it was indeed a choice, you'd think by now gays across the country would flip the heterosexual switch back to "ON" sothey could reap the financial and social benefits of being straight.

 

[nnarum]

I can't believe you guys didn't pass the legalization of prostitution...

 

[theyhatinonme]

Originally Posted by Untitled

i knew it wasn't gonna pass...you just can't lump the struggle of civil rights and homosexual rights together and think its gonna be hunky dory...

Truth. It is an insult to people of all races to compare gays to race equality.

 

[outacontrol music]

A friend of mine said "You can hide being gay


You cannot hide being black"

 

[throwedindagame]

Originally Posted by theyhatinonme

Originally Posted by Untitled

i knew it wasn't gonna pass...you just can't lump the struggle of civil rights and homosexual rights together and think its gonna be hunky dory...

Truth. It is an insult to people of all races to compare gays to race equality.

Word....an insult to the civil rights movement of the 60s and it's leaders....R.I.P.

 

[theyhatinonme]

Originally Posted by ThrowedInDaGame

Originally Posted by theyhatinonme

Originally Posted by Untitled

i knew it wasn't gonna pass...you just can't lump the struggle of civil rights and homosexual rights together and think its gonna be hunky dory...

Truth. It is an insult to people of all races to compare gays to race equality.

Word....an insult to the civil rights movement of the 60s and it's leaders....R.I.P.

This is why Obama won and all the gay props lost in this election. Because the American people were smart enough to know the difference here. Unlike mostNTers who are whinning like palin supports after prop 8 passed.

 

[rawsheed]

 

[illmaticsoulchild]

Really shocked that this passed in CA.

IMO, it was based on that campaign that basically made it seem that gay marriage would be taught in school.

There are two main types of people that support gay marriage.

- People who genuinely believe gays should have the right to have the same privileges as heterosexual couples
- People who say they're for equal privileges for gays, but behind closed doors, tell their kids not to be gay

The second group basically tipped the scale for the prop to pass.

 

[javier5857]

Originally Posted by theyhatinonme

Originally Posted by ThrowedInDaGame

Originally Posted by theyhatinonme

Originally Posted by Untitled

i knew it wasn't gonna pass...you just can't lump the struggle of civil rights and homosexual rights together and think its gonna be hunky dory...

Truth. It is an insult to people of all races to compare gays to race equality.

Word....an insult to the civil rights movement of the 60s and it's leaders....R.I.P.

This is why Obama won and all the gay props lost in this election. Because the American people were smart enough to know the difference here. Unlike most NTers who are whinning like palin supports after prop 8 passed.

Seriously? You have to be one of the most ignorant people i have spoken to on the internet. Just stop.

And to that picture up there

"Prop 8 = Free Speech"