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What if a white guy out on a Obama mask? Is that racist? Would you be offended?
College students protesting "racist" Halloween costumes vol. C'mon man
- Thread in 'General' Thread starter Started by celticsfan9783,
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Not fixed. If you read the rest of my post I was making a specific point about white privilege and how this issue and many of the responses and attitudes posted in this thread are one way such privilege manifests itself. I don't disagree with your point, though.
Also, I can't believe that people are in here literally defending the use of black-face. And for the sake of a %%@@!$% Halloween costume?! I literally cannot comprehend this. Privilege really is a mother #*#*$!.
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There is a rather large difference between a racist costume and a person with poor taste.
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No dude; she doesn't even half way look like lil wayne.
Where's the dreads, skinny jeans sagging down to ankles?
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at the end of the day, none of yall are gonna step to anyone wearing an "offensive" costume
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he's going as a person.. JT.Originally Posted by djuzi05
Originally Posted by Michael Kelso
Hahah forgot about Wade going as J Timberlake. What do all you offended people feel about this?
not a generic white person
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this white chick I went to college with
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Originally Posted by Dirtylicious
he's going as a person.. JT.Originally Posted by djuzi05
Originally Posted by Michael Kelso
Hahah forgot about Wade going as J Timberlake. What do all you offended people feel about this?
not a generic white person
Exactly!
Like dude said on the last page alot of yall just don't take into account the history behind Blackface and and the rest of these costumes. They were created to degrade people, and now some frat idiot want's to be funny by wearing it. They have full on parties at some colleges dedicated to mocking Minorities, so stop playing dumb like this is all fun and games....
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What do you mean, you people?
Remy LeBeau
formerly carbon16
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Originally Posted by NYC game
No dude; she doesn't even half way look like lil wayne.
Where's the dreads, skinny jeans sagging down to ankles?
Your slow she clearly has wayne's tats on her face, diamond teeth, red rag and styrofoam cup. If ol girl is wrong so is D. Wade
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OHIO UNIVERSITY
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Comparing a ninja to a geisha? Really?
Come at me proper, when you know a bit more about Asian and Asian-American history. Until then keep defending the blackface costume as if your ethnicity is the only one that was made a mockery in American society.
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Originally Posted by carbon16
Originally Posted by NYC game
No dude; she doesn't even half way look like lil wayne.
Where's the dreads, skinny jeans sagging down to ankles?
Your slow she clearly has wayne's tats on her face, diamond teeth, red rag and styrofoam cup. If ol girl is wrong so is D. Wade
Do you know what black-face is?
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But they're not going as blackface. They don't paint their face and go around singiing "I like the moona, and the joona, and the springa". They're playing characters too, rapper, actor, gang member, whatever it may be. These are characters, they're not going representing an entire race of people.
That's why I said earlier. If you feel like they're Lil Wayne costume is offensive because you believe they're representing your entire race while they're just trying to be Lil Wayne makes you racist. Double standards FTL
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Do you understand the history of black-face? Do you understand the historical dynamics of race in this country? The Lil' Wayne costume is not offensive because people think it's "representing an entire race." It's offensive because of the history of black-face as a part of the historical racial dynamics of this country. Do you understand?
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Originally Posted by GRyPR33
What do you mean, you people?
He's right though. Have any white NTer's actually ever felt racism towards them or felt offended by a racist remark/situation? The worst most of us have probably ever gotten was being called "White-boy". I couldn't even comprehend what others feel on the subject, because I haven't been through what they have.
rufiorufiorufio
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Chapter 9 White Racial Identity Development: Therapeutic Implications
From
Sue, D.W., & Sue, D. (2003). Counseling the Culturally Diverse. Wiley: New York.
What does being White mean? Have you ever asked yourself that question? If not, why haven’t you? If you have, what was your answer? The following is taken from You Are a Racist! (in progress).
What Does it Mean. to Be White?
42-year-old White businessman
Q:What does it mean to be White?
A:Frankly, I don’t know what you’re talking about!
Q:Aren’t you White?
A:Yes, but I come from Italian heritage. I’m Italian, not White.
Q:Well then, what does it mean to be Italian?
A
asta, good food, love of wine [obviously agitated]. This is getting ridiculous!
OBSERVATIONS
enial and/or conflicted about being White. Claims Italian heritage, but unable to indicate more than superficial understanding of ethnic meaning. Expresses annoyance at the question.
26-year-old White female college student
Q:What does it mean to be White?
A:Is this a trick question? [pause] I’ve never thought about it. Well, 1 know that lots of Black people see us as being prejudiced and all that stuff I wish people would just forget about race differences and see one another as human beings. People are people and we should all be proud to be Americans.
OBSERVATIONS: Seldom thinks about being White. Defensive about prejudicial associations with Whiteness. Desires to eliminate or dilute race differences.
236Worldviews in Multicultural counseling/Therapy
65-year-old White male retired construction worker
Q:What does it mean to be White?
A:That’s a stupid question [sounds irritated]!
Q:Why?
A:Look, what are you... Oriental? You people are always blaming us for stereotyping, and here you are doing the same to us.
Q:When you say “us, “ to whom are you referring?
A:I’m referring to Americans who aren’t colored. We are all different from one another. I’m Irish but there are Germans, Italians, and those Jews. I get an¬gry at the colored people foralways blaming us. When my grandparents came over to this country, they worked 24 hours a day to provide a good living for their kids. My wife and I raised five kids, and I worked every day of my life to provide for them. No one gave me nothing! I get angry at the Black people for always whining. They just have to get off their butts and work rather than go¬ing on welfare. At least you people [reference to Asian Americans] work hard. The Black ones could learn from your people.
OBSERVATIONS: Believes question stereotypes Whites and expresses resentment with being categorized. Views White people as ethnic group. Expresses belief that anyone can be successful if they work hard. Believes African Americans are lazy and that Asian Americans are successful. Strong anger directed toward minority groups.
34-year-old White female stockbroker
Q:What does it mean to be White?
A:I don’t know [laughing]. I’ve never thought about it.
Q:Are you White?
A: Yes, I suppose so [seems very amused].
Q:Why haven’t you thought about it?
A:Because it’s not important to me.
Q:Why not?
A:It doesn’t enter into my mind because it doesn’t affect my life. Besides, we are all unique. Color isn’t important.
OBSERVATIONS: Never thought about being White because it’s unimportant. People are individuals, and color isn’t important.
These are not atypical responses given by White Euro-Americans when posed with this question. When people of color are asked the same question, their answers tended to be more specific:
White Racial Identity Development: Therapeutic implications237
29-year-old Latina administrative assistant
Q:What does it mean to be White?
A:I’m not White; I’m Latina!
Q:Are you upset with me?
A:No. . . . Its just that I’m light, so people always think I’m White. Its only when I speak that they realize I’m Hispanic.
Q:Well, what does it mean to be White?
Ao you really want to know?. . . Okay, it means you’re always right. It means you never have to explain yourself or apologize.... You know that movie /Love Story, which features the line, “Love is never having to say you’re sorry]? Well, being White is never having to say you’re sorry. It means they think they’re better than us.
OBSERVATIONS: Strong reaction to being mistaken for being White. Claims that be¬ing White makes people feel superior and is reflected in their disinclination to admit be¬ing wrong.
39 year-old Black male salesman
Q:What does it mean to be White?
A:Is this a school exercise or something? Never expected someone to ask me that question in the middle of the city. Do you want the politically correct answer or what I really think?
Q:Can you tell me what you really think?
A:You won’t quit, will you [laughing]? If you‘re White, you’re right. If you‘re Black, step back.
Q:What does that mean?
A:White folks are always thinking they know all the answers. A Black man’s word is worth less than a White man’s. When White customers come into our dealership and see me standing next to the cars, I become invisible to them. Ac¬tually, they may see me as a well-dressed janitor [laughs], or actively avoid me. They will search out a White salesman. Or when I explain something to a customer, they always check out the information with my White colleagues. They don’t trust me. When I mention this to our manager, who is White, he tells me I’m oversensitive and being paranoid. That’s what being White means. It means having the authority or power to tell me what’s really hap¬pening even though I know it’s not. Being White means you can fool yourself into thinking that you’re not prejudiced, when you are. That’s what it means to be White.
OBSERVATIONS: Being White means you view minorities as less competent and ca¬pable. You have the power to define reality. You can deceive yourself into believing you’re not prejudiced.
238Worldviews in Multicultural Counseling/Therapy
21-year-old Chinese American male college student (majoring in ethnic studies)
Q:What does it mean to be White?
A: My cultural heritage class was just discussing that question
this week.
Q:What was your conclusion?
A:Well, it has to do with White privilege. I read an article by a professor at Wellesley. It made a lot of sense to me. Being White in this society automati¬cally guarantees you better treatment and unearned benefits and privileges than minorities. Having white skin means you have the freedom to choose the neighborhood you live in. You won’t be discriminated against. When you en¬ter a store, security guards won’t assume you will steal something. You can flag down a cab without the thought they won’t pick you up because you’re a minority. You can study in school and be assured your group will be portrayed positively. You don’t have to deal with race or think about it.
Q:Are White folks aware of their White privilege?
A:Hell no! They’re oblivious to it.
OBSERVATIONS:Being White means having unearned privileges in our society. It means you are oblivious to the advantages of being White.
The Invisible Whiteness of Being
The responses given by White Euro-Americans and persons of color are rad¬ically different from one another. Yet the answers given by both groups are quite common and representative of the range of responses students give in our diversity and multicultural classes. White respondents would rather not think about their Whiteness, are uncomfortable or react negatively to being labeled “White,
From
Sue, D.W., & Sue, D. (2003). Counseling the Culturally Diverse. Wiley: New York.
What does being White mean? Have you ever asked yourself that question? If not, why haven’t you? If you have, what was your answer? The following is taken from You Are a Racist! (in progress).
What Does it Mean. to Be White?
42-year-old White businessman
Q:What does it mean to be White?
A:Frankly, I don’t know what you’re talking about!
Q:Aren’t you White?
A:Yes, but I come from Italian heritage. I’m Italian, not White.
Q:Well then, what does it mean to be Italian?
A
asta, good food, love of wine [obviously agitated]. This is getting ridiculous!OBSERVATIONS
enial and/or conflicted about being White. Claims Italian heritage, but unable to indicate more than superficial understanding of ethnic meaning. Expresses annoyance at the question.26-year-old White female college student
Q:What does it mean to be White?
A:Is this a trick question? [pause] I’ve never thought about it. Well, 1 know that lots of Black people see us as being prejudiced and all that stuff I wish people would just forget about race differences and see one another as human beings. People are people and we should all be proud to be Americans.
OBSERVATIONS: Seldom thinks about being White. Defensive about prejudicial associations with Whiteness. Desires to eliminate or dilute race differences.
236Worldviews in Multicultural counseling/Therapy
65-year-old White male retired construction worker
Q:What does it mean to be White?
A:That’s a stupid question [sounds irritated]!
Q:Why?
A:Look, what are you... Oriental? You people are always blaming us for stereotyping, and here you are doing the same to us.
Q:When you say “us, “ to whom are you referring?
A:I’m referring to Americans who aren’t colored. We are all different from one another. I’m Irish but there are Germans, Italians, and those Jews. I get an¬gry at the colored people foralways blaming us. When my grandparents came over to this country, they worked 24 hours a day to provide a good living for their kids. My wife and I raised five kids, and I worked every day of my life to provide for them. No one gave me nothing! I get angry at the Black people for always whining. They just have to get off their butts and work rather than go¬ing on welfare. At least you people [reference to Asian Americans] work hard. The Black ones could learn from your people.
OBSERVATIONS: Believes question stereotypes Whites and expresses resentment with being categorized. Views White people as ethnic group. Expresses belief that anyone can be successful if they work hard. Believes African Americans are lazy and that Asian Americans are successful. Strong anger directed toward minority groups.
34-year-old White female stockbroker
Q:What does it mean to be White?
A:I don’t know [laughing]. I’ve never thought about it.
Q:Are you White?
A: Yes, I suppose so [seems very amused].
Q:Why haven’t you thought about it?
A:Because it’s not important to me.
Q:Why not?
A:It doesn’t enter into my mind because it doesn’t affect my life. Besides, we are all unique. Color isn’t important.
OBSERVATIONS: Never thought about being White because it’s unimportant. People are individuals, and color isn’t important.
These are not atypical responses given by White Euro-Americans when posed with this question. When people of color are asked the same question, their answers tended to be more specific:
White Racial Identity Development: Therapeutic implications237
29-year-old Latina administrative assistant
Q:What does it mean to be White?
A:I’m not White; I’m Latina!
Q:Are you upset with me?
A:No. . . . Its just that I’m light, so people always think I’m White. Its only when I speak that they realize I’m Hispanic.
Q:Well, what does it mean to be White?
A
o you really want to know?. . . Okay, it means you’re always right. It means you never have to explain yourself or apologize.... You know that movie /Love Story, which features the line, “Love is never having to say you’re sorry]? Well, being White is never having to say you’re sorry. It means they think they’re better than us.OBSERVATIONS: Strong reaction to being mistaken for being White. Claims that be¬ing White makes people feel superior and is reflected in their disinclination to admit be¬ing wrong.
39 year-old Black male salesman
Q:What does it mean to be White?
A:Is this a school exercise or something? Never expected someone to ask me that question in the middle of the city. Do you want the politically correct answer or what I really think?
Q:Can you tell me what you really think?
A:You won’t quit, will you [laughing]? If you‘re White, you’re right. If you‘re Black, step back.
Q:What does that mean?
A:White folks are always thinking they know all the answers. A Black man’s word is worth less than a White man’s. When White customers come into our dealership and see me standing next to the cars, I become invisible to them. Ac¬tually, they may see me as a well-dressed janitor [laughs], or actively avoid me. They will search out a White salesman. Or when I explain something to a customer, they always check out the information with my White colleagues. They don’t trust me. When I mention this to our manager, who is White, he tells me I’m oversensitive and being paranoid. That’s what being White means. It means having the authority or power to tell me what’s really hap¬pening even though I know it’s not. Being White means you can fool yourself into thinking that you’re not prejudiced, when you are. That’s what it means to be White.
OBSERVATIONS: Being White means you view minorities as less competent and ca¬pable. You have the power to define reality. You can deceive yourself into believing you’re not prejudiced.
238Worldviews in Multicultural Counseling/Therapy
21-year-old Chinese American male college student (majoring in ethnic studies)
Q:What does it mean to be White?
A: My cultural heritage class was just discussing that question
this week.
Q:What was your conclusion?
A:Well, it has to do with White privilege. I read an article by a professor at Wellesley. It made a lot of sense to me. Being White in this society automati¬cally guarantees you better treatment and unearned benefits and privileges than minorities. Having white skin means you have the freedom to choose the neighborhood you live in. You won’t be discriminated against. When you en¬ter a store, security guards won’t assume you will steal something. You can flag down a cab without the thought they won’t pick you up because you’re a minority. You can study in school and be assured your group will be portrayed positively. You don’t have to deal with race or think about it.
Q:Are White folks aware of their White privilege?
A:Hell no! They’re oblivious to it.
OBSERVATIONS:Being White means having unearned privileges in our society. It means you are oblivious to the advantages of being White.
The Invisible Whiteness of Being
The responses given by White Euro-Americans and persons of color are rad¬ically different from one another. Yet the answers given by both groups are quite common and representative of the range of responses students give in our diversity and multicultural classes. White respondents would rather not think about their Whiteness, are uncomfortable or react negatively to being labeled “White,
MPLS612
formerly ame416
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There really people who think Black face is cool?
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That article by mr.Sue was very good and its well written like Tim WIse's workshops.Alot of truth is in it.America and our whole planet has a long way to go with race relations.Efforts like that book and Tim Wise's workshops are a good step forward.I think the anonymity of the internet is holding the flame of prejudice high.Alot of people hide their racism behind memes,shops and various other internet phenonama.
curbyourenthusiasm
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You basically just regurgitated what I said. Dressing up like a certain character is one thing. Dressing in an attempt to stereotype a culture is another. One is okay, one is in poor taste. That's what I just posted. You quoted it.
So the Lebron jersey hypothetical does work in the 1st situation. If I can't dress up like Michael Jackson or Eazy-E, I shouldn't be able to dress like my favorite basketball player if you want to keep the reasoning consistent.
and to be easy e or ice cube you need to have on blackface?
the whole NWA hat with jheri curls is too ambiguous?
gotta have blackface for us to say "OHHHHHH, THAT WHITE KID IS EASY E, NOT A WHITE BOY WITH A JHERI CURL, OHHH"
stop it.
wearing a lebron jersey and saying youre lebron is different from painting your face black, a symbol of racism in this country...
its plain english, how are you not understanding it?
curbyourenthusiasm
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Originally Posted by thekryptonite
Just out of interest, was this film racist to anyone?
just out of interest, have you ever even watched the movie?
also, can you give us some context in which black people in whiteface has been used to systematically oppress on a widespread scale?
im interested.
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read through a bunch of this thread. My 2 cents
I understand that the costume's can be found offensive (black-face and such). But 99% of the people dressed up like this do not have the intent of degrading an entire race. I think intent should be taken into consideration. By dressing like lil wayne i don't think the person wants african american's to remember the times of when black face was used to publicly embarrass them. I know that this may be what happens to some and why they are so upset. But when you stop and think about the intent.....I think they just like lil wayne.
I can understand being upset but to hate them and feel disrespected...that should be based on intent.
I understand that the costume's can be found offensive (black-face and such). But 99% of the people dressed up like this do not have the intent of degrading an entire race. I think intent should be taken into consideration. By dressing like lil wayne i don't think the person wants african american's to remember the times of when black face was used to publicly embarrass them. I know that this may be what happens to some and why they are so upset. But when you stop and think about the intent.....I think they just like lil wayne.
I can understand being upset but to hate them and feel disrespected...that should be based on intent.
curbyourenthusiasm
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intent doesnt matter.
blackface is offensive.
it has history behind it and the history is offensive.
intent is irrelevant.
besides, alot of this is unspoken intent.
you think these white kids putting on blackface are completely oblivious to the history of the blackface? they're completely oblivious that putting on blackface is offensive to black people? really?
its not funny to make fun of black people? you can put brown paint on your body and act like a rapper in a rap video or like dave chappelle when he was lil jon? there's not an unspoken understanding when these white kids put this stuff on?
only unspoken in the presence of any other minority, of course....
so, when, inevitably, some minority gets bent out of shape and claims they are offended they can say
"BUT THAT WASNT MY INTENT"
right?
oh.
blackface is offensive.
it has history behind it and the history is offensive.
intent is irrelevant.
besides, alot of this is unspoken intent.
you think these white kids putting on blackface are completely oblivious to the history of the blackface? they're completely oblivious that putting on blackface is offensive to black people? really?
its not funny to make fun of black people? you can put brown paint on your body and act like a rapper in a rap video or like dave chappelle when he was lil jon? there's not an unspoken understanding when these white kids put this stuff on?
only unspoken in the presence of any other minority, of course....
so, when, inevitably, some minority gets bent out of shape and claims they are offended they can say
"BUT THAT WASNT MY INTENT"
right?
oh.
