College students protesting "racist" Halloween costumes vol. C'mon man

[beh235]

Method Man couldn't have said it better. It's sad how so many young people think that these stereotypes are cool and funny, but have no context to it. I think what gets lost is that there is a very fine line between satire and flat out being offensive. I guess the best example would be how Dave Chappelle explained why he decided to end his show while doing the racist pixie sketch. According to his explanation, it was how people laughed at the joke. He felt they were laughing at the act without the context, instead just laughing at the stereotype. I got what he was saying when he said it, and I feel a lot of that goes on here. People laugh at the satire but lack the context of the comedy of it. Smh.

 

[jking0821]

Originally Posted by CurbYourEnthusiasm

intent doesnt matter.

blackface is offensive.

it has history behind it and the history is offensive.

intent is irrelevant.

besides, alot of this is unspoken intent.

you think these white kids putting on blackface are completely oblivious to the history of the blackface? (a lot are)  they're completely oblivious that putting on blackface is offensive to black people? really? (its offensive to some black people)

its not funny to make fun of black people? (huh?) you can put brown paint on your body and act like a rapper in a rap video or like dave chappelle when he was lil jon? there's not an unspoken understanding when these white kids put this stuff on? (huh?)

only unspoken in the presence of any other minority, of course....

so, when, inevitably, some minority gets bent out of shape and claims they are offended they can say

"BUT THAT WASNT MY INTENT"

right?

oh.

Ya exactly lol

Just as many black people don't know the history behind black face as white people with the intent to mock them by dressing black.   Inevitably some one is offended by everything.  I don't think saying don't do it because it will offend some one is a very good excuse.  People should be rational and understand if there is no intent to mock them then its cool.  If you dress up like the olden day plays in an actual black face esque costume then yeah you are probably intending to offend some one.   

It's halloween people just want to have fun not make subliminal statements about white privilege and superiority

 

[curbyourenthusiasm]

no.

read this five thousand times before you respond.

THE IMAGE OF BLACKFACE CARRIES A RACIST STIGMA

period.

end of story.

there is no "lets talk about it"

or "well, what do they REALLY mean"

its racist, period.

 

[celticsfan9783]

Originally Posted by CurbYourEnthusiasm

no.

read this five thousand times before you respond.

THE IMAGE OF BLACKFACE CARRIES A RACIST STIGMA

period.

end of story.

there is no "lets talk about it"

or "well, what do they REALLY mean"

its racist, period.

So answer me this. Should people of Italian descent be screaming for the Italian American Anti Defamation League to do something about all these rappers calling themselves Gotti, Capone, Bulger, Luciano, Godfather; and dressing up like the Mob, recreating scenes from gangster movies in their music videos? They are using a dark piece of Italian culture for entertainment purposes. Should they be held accountable for  the Italian stereotypes they are driving into the heads of those who listen to the music? Think about it.

 

[-Red-]

Originally Posted by Jking0821

Originally Posted by CurbYourEnthusiasm

intent doesnt matter.

blackface is offensive.

it has history behind it and the history is offensive.

intent is irrelevant.

besides, alot of this is unspoken intent.

you think these white kids putting on blackface are completely oblivious to the history of the blackface? (a lot are)  they're completely oblivious that putting on blackface is offensive to black people? really? (its offensive to some black people)

its not funny to make fun of black people? (huh?) you can put brown paint on your body and act like a rapper in a rap video or like dave chappelle when he was lil jon? there's not an unspoken understanding when these white kids put this stuff on? (huh?)

only unspoken in the presence of any other minority, of course....

so, when, inevitably, some minority gets bent out of shape and claims they are offended they can say

"BUT THAT WASNT MY INTENT"

right?

oh.

Ya exactly lol

Just as many black people don't know the history behind black face as white people with the intent to mock them by dressing black.   Inevitably some one is offended by everything.  I don't think saying don't do it because it will offend some one is a very good excuse.  People should be rational and understand if there is no intent to mock them then its cool.  If you dress up like the olden day plays in an actual black face esque costume then yeah you are probably intending to offend some one.   

It's halloween people just want to have fun not make subliminal statements about white privilege and superiority

This can't be real life.

Originally Posted by CelticsFan9783

Originally Posted by CurbYourEnthusiasm

no.

read this five thousand times before you respond.

THE IMAGE OF BLACKFACE CARRIES A RACIST STIGMA

period.

end of story.

there is no "lets talk about it"

or "well, what do they REALLY mean"

its racist, period.

So answer me this. Should people of Italian descent be screaming for the Italian American Anti Defamation League to do something about all these rappers calling themselves Gotti, Capone, Bulger, Luciano, Godfather; and dressing up like the Mob, recreating scenes from gangster movies in their music videos? They are using a dark piece of Italian culture for entertainment purposes. Should they be held accountable for  the Italian stereotypes they are driving into the heads of those who listen to the music? Think about it.

If they felt strongly enough about it to protest it then no one from outside of that ethnic group could tell them they're wrong.

 

[joe cool]

RufioRufioRufio made an excellent post. Honestley its a great read and every1 should read it when they have alot of spare time.  But this thing is way too long to be appriciated by the niketalk famb. If its not the Harlem Shake story story, the niketalk famb is not readin a post this long

the article does make strong valid points so ill just quote the ones that apply to this case:

Originally Posted by RufioRufioRufio

Ifyou want to understand oppression, should you ask the oppressor or theoppressed? If you want to learn about sexism, do you ask men or women? If youwant to understand homophobia, do you ask straights or gays? If you want tolearn about racism, do you ask Whites or persons of color? It appears that themost accurate assessment of bias comes not from those who enjoy the privilegeof power, but from those who are most disempowered.



Taking this position, the followingassumptions are made about the dynamics of Whiteness:

First, it is clear that most Whitefolks perceive themselves as unbiased individuals who do not harbor racistthoughts and feelings; they see themselves as working toward social justice andpossess a conscious desire to better the life circumstances of those lessfortunate than they. While admirable qualities, this self-image serves as amajor barrier to recognizing and taking responsibility for admitting anddealing with one’s own prejudices and biases. To admit to being racist, sexist,or homophobic requires people to recognize that the self-images that they holdso dear are based on false notions of the self.

 

Second, being a White person in thissociety means chronic exposure to ethnocentric monoculturalism as manifested inWhite supremacy (D. W Sue et a!., 199. It is difficult, if not impossible,for anyone to avoid inheriting the racial biases, prejudices, misinformation,deficit portrayals, and stereotypes of their forebears. To believe that theyare somehow immune from inheriting such aspects of White supremacy is to benaive or to engage in self-deception. Such a statement is not intended toassail the integrity of White folks, but to suggest that they also have beenvictimized. It is clear to us that no one was born wanting to be racist,sexist, or homophobic. Misinformation is not acquired by free choice, but isimposed upon White folks through a painful process of cultural conditioning




Because White culture is thedominant cultural norm in the United States, it acts as an invisible veil thatlimits many people from seeing it as a cultural system.... Often, it is easierfor many Whites to identify and acknowledge the different cultures ofminorities than accept their own racial identity.... The difficulty of acceptingsuch a view is that White culture is omnipresent. It is so interwoven in thefabric of everyday living that Whites cannot step outside and see their beliefs,values, and behaviors as creating a distinct cultural group.

Unintentional behavior is perhaps the most insidious form ofracism. Unintentional racists are unaware of the harmful consequences of theirbehavior. They may be well-intentioned, and on the surface, their behavior mayappear to be responsible. Because individuals, groups, or institutions thatengage in unintentional racism do not wish to do harm, it is difficult to getthem to see themselves as racists. They are more likely to deny their racism

hope that clarifies things a little bit

 

[jd214]

Originally Posted by CWrite78

Apparently white people seem to be the problem.

Sort of agree, Since they're the ones wearing them.

Originally Posted by Checks McGee

%!#% is comedy.

some of yall need to pull ya skirt down, b.  gettin extra sensitive.

This!

Really don't find the Mexican costume offensive at all, don't see why other people find them offensive, I actually find them funny.

Black face and Terrorist costumes, I would wear them.

 

[galvelocity]

Originally Posted by CWrite78

Apparently white people seem to be the problem.

Where's the white person holding up a photo of all the things we could be getting up in arms about? I get that we don't really have the history of persecution that a lot of other races do, but I think we get a raw deal in terms of always being the first ones to be called racist. I would never even consider a blackface costume. But what if someone wants to be Obama for Halloween because they genuinely admire him? Can they wear a mask? Or is that racist too? To want to look like someone who you think is awesome?
So often, if any other race does something, it's all good. But as soon as a white person does/says it, the race card is pulled AT ONCE. 

The movie white chicks, for example. Could it have been construed as offensive? Hell yes. Am I offended? No. Because I know that those characters aren't indicative of my race as a whole. I understand the idea behind being self deprecating. Are white girls total douches a lot of the time? Hell yes. Does that mean I'm a douche because I'm a white girl? No. 

I agree that some of the costumes were offensive, but I don't understand why as Caucasians we're allowed to dress up as anyone we admire as long as they're white. We wanted to be the recess crew this year but couldn't because we're all white and didn't have anyone to play vince and we knew that if anyone dressed up as Vince, even if we left him white, people would freak out, and I think that's stupid. 

 

[kingjamesvehs]

Originally Posted by GTEK

I can honestly say I'm offended by the black face costume. So I could see where the others may be hurtful as well.

i have a problem with black people having a problem with this... and then TROLOLING at anyone in that dave chapelle white faced anchorman costume...or laughing at the skit in general

people are too sensitive... youre black.. if it requires a white person to makethemselve black to create a COSTUME then whats the big deal... its a costume
its not like theyre doooing drive bys and saying "its cuz im black"

 

[frostythepoptart]

i wish you guys stop referring to it as black face it has a connotation thats why everyone wants to jump down each others throats about it. that white guy that dressed up like j. cole had on "brown face" it wasn't pitch black nor did he have on any racist intent.

the racism is clear with black face of the past it was basically tar and lipstick with ignorant talking thats nothing like how stuff is today.

someone post that pic of some white dude dressing up likej. cole for halloween i guess its cool cause he's light skin so he can be that kinda black just not any darker or its racist. its a joke and I'm black saying this.

 

[celticsfan9783]

Good point. Blackface was more than just a painted face.

 

[SHERLOCK87]

this wont ever end.. One side will never say "ok, your right", to the other side..


but i digress..

 

[oakridegonee]

http://s1186.photobucket.com/albums/z365/frankinfante21/?action=view&current=6dca872d.jpg
My boy on the left me on right

 

[definition of dopeness]

 

[frostythepoptart]

perfect point this will be considered racist and everyone will get up in arms because he chose a dark complexion. but this is funny

 

 

[everysingletime]

Skimmed through the thread, so here's my 2 cents. 

I'm going to have to agree that a white person dressed as a generic black person is being racist but a white person dressed as Lil Wayne is not automatically racist.  Otherwise we'd have to say that Dwyane Wade was being racist for dressing as JT.

And please don't come at me with the Lil Wayne costume is racist because of blackface history.  I can almost guarantee you a white teenager/college student in 2011 is not going to know about the history. 

There is a fine line between ignorance and racism ( one can lead to the other ), but ignorance does not always equal racism.  Maybe that girl just wanted to dress up.

Again.  I'm agreeing that a white person dressed as a generic black person is being racist.  I'm just speaking on the picture on page 1. 

 

[galvelocity]

Originally Posted by amel223


I'm going to have to agree that a white person dressed as a generic black person is being racist but a white person dressed as Lil Wayne is not automatically racist.  Otherwise we'd have to say that Dwyane Wade was being racist for dressing as JT.

This.

 

[je ne sais quoi]

Originally Posted by mholmes87

this wont ever end.. One side White people will never say "ok, your right", to the other side minorities..


but i digress..

 

[curbyourenthusiasm]

IT DOESNT MATTER IF THEY KNOW THE HISTORY

that's honestly the weakest cop out available.

"i didnt know"

im 10000000% sure none of these blackface costumes would be wore to the inner-city nor a mostly black neighborhood...

they keep it in the suburbs and the white frat houses.....and get real awkward infront of black people.

ive seen it with my own two eyes since 2001 on the campus of The Ohio State University.


its a weak cop out and its irrelevant either way.

the USA didnt know what was going to happen when invading middle eastern countries,

no way you can criticize them for invading countries, they simply didnt know it was going to be a huge embarassing failure.

%!!! outta here.

they know.



heres a wild idea

how about they just dont do it because people say its offensive

why are people arguing "nah, you're not really offended."

or "nah, this isnt offensive"

PEOPLE ARE OFFENDED BY BLACKFACE

HOW ARE YOU GOING TO TELL THEM THEY ARENT OFFENDED OR ITS NOT OFFENSIVE WHEN THEY ARE OFFENDED?

WHY ARE YOU ARGUING?

STOP OFFENDING PEOPLE

dont argue once you offend someone, just apologize and gain perspective as to not offend them again.



ive literally typed the same thing 3 times and people arent even reading it...just posting "i dont think its racist because they dont know the history"

when i told yall 6 pages ago intent is irrelevant.

but keep flapping them ignorant gums....er...flicking them ignorant fingers.

 

[curbyourenthusiasm]

Originally Posted by kingjamesvehs

Originally Posted by GTEK

I can honestly say I'm offended by the black face costume. So I could see where the others may be hurtful as well.

i have a problem with black people having a problem with this... and then TROLOLING at anyone in that dave chapelle white faced anchorman costume...or laughing at the skit in general

people are too sensitive... youre black.. if it requires a white person to makethemselve black to create a COSTUME then whats the big deal... its a costume
its not like theyre doooing drive bys and saying "its cuz im black"

so what racist connotations does whiteface have in this country?

im totally interested....

  

Originally Posted by CelticsFan9783

Originally Posted by CurbYourEnthusiasm

no.

read this five thousand times before you respond.

THE IMAGE OF BLACKFACE CARRIES A RACIST STIGMA

period.

end of story.

there is no "lets talk about it"

or "well, what do they REALLY mean"

its racist, period.

So answer me this. Should people of Italian descent be screaming for the Italian American Anti Defamation League to do something about all these rappers calling themselves Gotti, Capone, Bulger, Luciano, Godfather; and dressing up like the Mob, recreating scenes from gangster movies in their music videos? They are using a dark piece of Italian culture for entertainment purposes. Should they be held accountable for  the Italian stereotypes they are driving into the heads of those who listen to the music? Think about it.

outside of the jersey guido stereotype thats recently been applied

gangsters, specifically italian gangsters have been GLORIFIED in this country

yeah, for the sake of this argument you're comparing them, only to try and contradict me

sorry, that doesnt work, sir.

italians are glorified in american culture, even with gross stereotypes of "tony, the plumber" who wears windbreakers 24/7 and drives a black caddy.....he's not looked at as subhuman or weak, at all...hes a "boss"

regardless, there isnt history, in this country, of the racial identity of italian americans being lampooned to white american audiences, many times, that interaction being the ONLY interaction with italians.

i.e. many white audiences had never seen a black person, once these blackface movies became widely available, it was LITERALLY documentary-level education for a majority of white america.

regardless of if you know that or not, its true...its reality....

blackface carries connotations, whether you acknowledge them or not...period.

its not the same as the "cool, rich boss" italian gangster in his own movie......

nor is it the same as "whiteface" which has just become a "phenomena" recently (past decade)

many instances of which arent .....

a.) .....ONLY viewed/seen by a majority of black americans, who view it as TRUTHFUL (i.e. they dont believe thats really a white guy, and white people are actually like that. also, its not ONLY taken in by a black audience and black audience only, everyone sees it an comments on it)

b.) ......even negative. the examples of whiteface most people pull in these types of arguments arent even negative portrayals.

c.) ....carrying negative connotation of systematic opreassion and racism simply with the sight of the very image

so nah, its not the same, at all....

thanks, tho.

 

[jking0821]

Originally Posted by frostythepoptart

i wish you guys stop referring to it as black face it has a connotation thats why everyone wants to jump down each others throats about it. that white guy that dressed up like j. cole had on "brown face" it wasn't pitch black nor did he have on any racist intent.

the racism is clear with black face of the past it was basically tar and lipstick with ignorant talking thats nothing like how stuff is today.

someone post that pic of some white dude dressing up likej. cole for halloween i guess its cool cause he's light skin so he can be that kinda black just not any darker or its racist. its a joke and I'm black saying this.

If you wore actual black face costume that is racists.  What I have been saying all along about intent.  If dressing up as an individual of another race was so insidiously racist it should infuriate every person of the mocked race.....which this thread proves it doesn't. 

PEOPLE ARE OFFENDED BY BLACKFACE

HOW ARE YOU GOING TO TELL THEM THEY ARENT OFFENDED OR ITS NOT OFFENSIVE WHEN THEY ARE OFFENDED?

WHY ARE YOU ARGUING?

STOP OFFENDING PEOPLE

dont argue once you offend someone, just apologize and gain perspective as to not offend them again.



ive literally typed the same thing 3 times and people arent even reading it...just posting "i dont think its racist because they dont know the history"

when i told yall 6 pages ago intent is irrelevant.

but keep flapping them ignorant gums....er...flicking them ignorant fingers.



It seems you sir are super offended by black face.  That doesn't mean everyone is.  My friend was barak obama 4 years ago and lives with 3 other black kids at college.  They thought it was hilarious.....

You saying intent is irrelevant is your 100% opinion.  That is no where near fact.

 

[curbyourenthusiasm]

Originally Posted by Jking0821

Originally Posted by frostythepoptart

i wish you guys stop referring to it as black face it has a connotation thats why everyone wants to jump down each others throats about it. that white guy that dressed up like j. cole had on "brown face" it wasn't pitch black nor did he have on any racist intent.

the racism is clear with black face of the past it was basically tar and lipstick with ignorant talking thats nothing like how stuff is today.

someone post that pic of some white dude dressing up likej. cole for halloween i guess its cool cause he's light skin so he can be that kinda black just not any darker or its racist. its a joke and I'm black saying this.

If you wore actual black face costume that is racists.  What I have been saying all along about intent.  If dressing up as an individual of another race was so insidiously racist it should infuriate every person of the mocked race.....which this thread proves it doesn't. 

son painting your face black to impersonate a black person invokes the image of blackface, which is racist.

yes, its ONLY black people....why?

THERE WAS ONLY BLACKFACE

no redface, no yellowface, no orangeface, no whiteface....

that's like saying the warner bros. stereotypical cartoons of asians, as long as the intent wasnt to be racist, arent offensive...


just like the white boys in jena bringing nooses to school wasnt racist.

just like KKK rallys arent promoting race hate, just pride in their own race...

yall cant be reading my posts...cant be...no way.

 

[curbyourenthusiasm]

Originally Posted by Jking0821

Originally Posted by frostythepoptart

i wish you guys stop referring to it as black face it has a connotation thats why everyone wants to jump down each others throats about it. that white guy that dressed up like j. cole had on "brown face" it wasn't pitch black nor did he have on any racist intent.

the racism is clear with black face of the past it was basically tar and lipstick with ignorant talking thats nothing like how stuff is today.

someone post that pic of some white dude dressing up likej. cole for halloween i guess its cool cause he's light skin so he can be that kinda black just not any darker or its racist. its a joke and I'm black saying this.

If you wore actual black face costume that is racists.  What I have been saying all along about intent.  If dressing up as an individual of another race was so insidiously racist it should infuriate every person of the mocked race.....which this thread proves it doesn't. 

PEOPLE ARE OFFENDED BY BLACKFACE

HOW ARE YOU GOING TO TELL THEM THEY ARENT OFFENDED OR ITS NOT OFFENSIVE WHEN THEY ARE OFFENDED?

WHY ARE YOU ARGUING?

STOP OFFENDING PEOPLE

dont argue once you offend someone, just apologize and gain perspective as to not offend them again.



ive literally typed the same thing 3 times and people arent even reading it...just posting "i dont think its racist because they dont know the history"

when i told yall 6 pages ago intent is irrelevant.

but keep flapping them ignorant gums....er...flicking them ignorant fingers.

It seems you sir are super offended by black face.  That doesn't mean everyone is.  My friend was barak obama 4 years ago and lives with 3 other black kids at college.  They thought it was hilarious.....

You saying intent is irrelevant is your 100% opinion.  That is no where near fact.






i know black dudes that are okay with white people using the N word around them too....whats your point?

what if youre driving and someone hits you head on at 85 mph....paralyzes you

when they say "it wasnt my intent to paralyze you"

what then?


(i find it hilarious you seriously said "if someone wears a blackface costume (whatever the +#+$ that is) its racist, but dressing IN BLACKFACE to be a specific black person isnt".......you literally think that. and that's funny to me.)

 

[jking0821]

Black face costume.  As stated before this is not what people are wearing.  Completely black face and big red lips.  This is racist.

You are comparing getting paralyzed to you getting offended by a costume....come on fam.  If my friend punches me in the face by accident I forget about it and move on.  If he punches me in the face on purpose we have a problem.  I feel bad for you if you walk around are are easily this offended by every little thing.  You must spend a lot of time being angry. 

 

[celticsfan9783]

Originally Posted by CurbYourEnthusiasm

Originally Posted by Jking0821

Originally Posted by frostythepoptart

i wish you guys stop referring to it as black face it has a connotation thats why everyone wants to jump down each others throats about it. that white guy that dressed up like j. cole had on "brown face" it wasn't pitch black nor did he have on any racist intent.

the racism is clear with black face of the past it was basically tar and lipstick with ignorant talking thats nothing like how stuff is today.

someone post that pic of some white dude dressing up likej. cole for halloween i guess its cool cause he's light skin so he can be that kinda black just not any darker or its racist. its a joke and I'm black saying this.

If you wore actual black face costume that is racists.  What I have been saying all along about intent.  If dressing up as an individual of another race was so insidiously racist it should infuriate every person of the mocked race.....which this thread proves it doesn't. 

PEOPLE ARE OFFENDED BY BLACKFACE

HOW ARE YOU GOING TO TELL THEM THEY ARENT OFFENDED OR ITS NOT OFFENSIVE WHEN THEY ARE OFFENDED?

WHY ARE YOU ARGUING?

STOP OFFENDING PEOPLE

dont argue once you offend someone, just apologize and gain perspective as to not offend them again.



ive literally typed the same thing 3 times and people arent even reading it...just posting "i dont think its racist because they dont know the history"

when i told yall 6 pages ago intent is irrelevant.

but keep flapping them ignorant gums....er...flicking them ignorant fingers.

It seems you sir are super offended by black face.  That doesn't mean everyone is.  My friend was barak obama 4 years ago and lives with 3 other black kids at college.  They thought it was hilarious.....

You saying intent is irrelevant is your 100% opinion.  That is no where near fact.

i know black dudes that are okay with white people using the N word around them too....whats your point?

what if youre driving and someone hits you head on at 85 mph....paralyzes you

when they say "it wasnt my intent to paralyze you"

what then?


(i find it hilarious you seriously said "if someone wears a blackface costume (whatever the +#+$ that is) its racist, but dressing IN BLACKFACE to be a specific black person isnt".......you literally think that. and that's funny to me.)
It's because the original Blackface was more than just a costume. It was literally an attempt to degrade a mass of people. I see your point that some peoples' nerves can be touched when a non-black person paints their face brown. Sure, it can invoke that piece of history. But I also believe that the intent truly does matter.

If a guy is walking down the street with a black mustache that looks a bit like that of Hitler's, should Jewish people be offended? Maybe, but you have to consider the mustached guy's point of view. If you have a problem with someone's actions, you should try communicating with them for you label them and walk around the rest of the day with your panties in a bunch.