Communism isn't such a bad idea if you think about it

[bwoodfolkgd74]

Originally Posted by NYVictory45

Humans are naturally selfish and greedy and I have no problem with that. What I do have a problem with are these theories that tell humans not be be human. Why would a theory like this ever work? Why even waste time trying to implement or defend it?

Communism ftl

word

 

[ninjahood]

Originally Posted by damnitzvin

Originally Posted by Rjbrooks

the idea behind it sounds great. but once you add the human element only corruption and greed are left in the end

thats sounds more like capitalism

a mixture of both is crucial...

 

[will068]

Originally Posted by 40inchBoost

why would i hit the grindstone extra hard so some guy doing nothing has just as much as i do?

no motivation

That's the idea. No Corruption in Government and no one takes advantage of the system ( e.g. like you said, no one sitting around on their *%!while you're on the grind ). Unfortunately, that's not the way the world works.

 

[airmaxpenny1]

Originally Posted by Lunatic 809

tell that to a cuban here in miami

And I would ask them to tell me about Batista...

 

[sputnik]

Avy check

 

[sputnik]

You guys are trippin saying that it doesn't work because there are lazy people. Perfect communism is only an idea, it is impossible to achieve.
The way it works is people still work various jobs, earning a corresponding income based on the complexity and difficulty of your job. If a person is lazy anddoesnt have a job, then they go to jail. There are many positive qualities such as free healthcare, schooling, retirement, etc. It actually turns out to workpretty well. The biggest problem is see is a common aspect of the "tragedy of the commons." since no one owns anything, everybody exploits and iscareless about their surroundings. I believe that it will never work in the US, but a country such as Russia; it is the only successful form of government.

 

[los yankees]

Sad. Very sad.

Capitalism and individual liberty and freedom is still a very new thing to this world. People have to understand that the history of the world is tyranny andoppression. Capitalism and the thought of individual liberty is something most people cant deal with. That's what makes this country is so great andunique, we have a document that promotes our inalienable rights based on Natural Law and prevents our government from intervening on our lives. Unfortunatly,these political elites walk around taking away rights everyday thinking they know what is best for the "masses". Using the "masses" toidentify citizens of this country is a shame and is a form of demagogery. Our government is corrupt because its too big and has an over expanded role, it'ssuppose to be limited.


From seeing people in previous threads bash Capitalism the way they do, they really have zero clue what it Capitalism really is. What's sad is that whenthey do they are really talking about Fascism, not Capitalism. Every subsudized, socialized, buerocratic program in this country has failed and is alwaysrunning in red.

You guys are trippin saying that it doesn't work because there are lazy people. Perfect communism is only an idea, it is impossible to achieve. The way it works is people still work various jobs, earning a corresponding income based on the complexity and difficulty of your job. If a person is lazy and doesnt have a job, then they go to jail. There are many positive qualities such as free healthcare, schooling, retirement, etc. It actually turns out to work pretty well. The biggest problem is see is a common aspect of the "tragedy of the commons." since no one owns anything, everybody exploits and is careless about their surroundings. I believe that it will never work in the US, but a country such as Russia; it is the only successful form of government.

If Coummunism was so great in Russia why were the Soviets importing food and oil with the amount of rich natural resources they had?

 

[xtapolapacetl]

Originally Posted by Sputnik

Avy check

That bum is the biggest reason communism has a bad rep. Mao is #2 and Pol Pot #3. They are the reasons why the word communism is synonymous with massexecutions and forced labor camps everywhere in the west. Democratic socialism > capitalism.

 

[airgerald23]

it sounds good but once it happens, our country falls apart.

 

[wildcard]

it sounds good on paper. but is impossible to actually come up with REAL communism and execute it like it's supposed to be

 

[salbah3]

It isn't its execution so far says so otherwise.

 

[salbah3]

It isn't its execution so far says so otherwise.

 

[sputnik]

Los Yankees. Why Do you go to the restaurant or get fast food. This is the reason they imported certain resources; it's more efficient and possiblycheaper. It wasn't Stalin that made "communism" look bad. It's the US that associates the word with evil. Stalin shaped Russia into a worldpower, he was a good leader. Sure there were sacrifices in the process, but aren't there always?

 

[essential1]

Originally Posted by Los Yankees

You guys are trippin saying that it doesn't work because there are lazy people. Perfect communism is only an idea, it is impossible to achieve. The way it works is people still work various jobs, earning a corresponding income based on the complexity and difficulty of your job. If a person is lazy and doesnt have a job, then they go to jail. There are many positive qualities such as free healthcare, schooling, retirement, etc. It actually turns out to work pretty well. The biggest problem is see is a common aspect of the "tragedy of the commons." since no one owns anything, everybody exploits and is careless about their surroundings. I believe that it will never work in the US, but a country such as Russia; it is the only successful form of government.

If Coummunism was so great in Russia why were the Soviets importing food and oil with the amount of rich natural resources they had?





I've had many convos with a professor who has studied Russian History for decades on this matter, and while he disagrees with Communism, he doesn'tconsider the Soviet's true communists, it was a dictatorship...

I am not arguing for or against communism here.

 

[the north west]

Originally Posted by Sputnik

Los Yankees. Why Do you go to the restaurant or get fast food. This is the reason they imported certain resources; it's more efficient and possibly cheaper. It wasn't Stalin that made "communism" look bad. It's the US that associates the word with evil. Stalin shaped Russia into a world power, he was a good leader. Sure there were sacrifices in the process, but aren't there always?

How old are you?

you sound like you don't know anything about communism or even communism in Russia

and "Sure there were sacrifices in the process" has to be the biggest understatement I have ever heard

central planning does not work

but I do agree with you about the US view of communism

 

[man e]

From the Capitalist side:

- Capitalism is better than communism.

- A capitalist society rewards both the individual's intelligence and greed, and greed CAN be a good thing, it's a trickle down effect where the moremoney someone wants the harder they'll try, and when you make more money in a capitalist society it's usually because you have been beneficial tosociety itself, in the form of an idea, product or service.

- Greed can lead to better products, it creates a Marketplace, or, competition. More competition is good for the consumer (You);because it lowers prices andmakes the product or service better at the same time.

- Capitalism allows a market place to work and grow, the more profitable an economies' businesses become the more the Government can collect in taxes.

- The more taxes a government collects (when profits are up, not the tax RATE) the countries citizens also benefit because the living standard grows as well:
- SAFETY: A stronger military in the form of technology, not just how many people it employes. More advanced police force...
- Construction: Good roads, bridges, and building projects.
- Regulation: Protects the consumers from harmful products and foods...

DO NOT confuse this with America's capitalism, although somewhere in the middle of the 20th century America had something very similar to this, today thatis long gone. Our "capitalist" society is burdened with large corporations that have TOO much power, unions which hurt businesses, and the list goeson.

If it were up to me, i would make a LARGE gap between the private sector (businesses) and the public sector (Government) I won't allow the private sectorto influence the public sector. And the public sector should ONLY be able to control the private sector, or regulate, when it's essential to protect thepeople. It's a complicated and dynamic balance that we've been trying to get since this country was created.

 

[Master Zik]

Power corrupts.

Only perfect people can make communism work.

 

[callhimar]

Originally Posted by Master Zik

Power corrupts.

Only perfect people can make communism work.

Very true.

However the only reason we are not perfect, in what would most likely be Marx's opinion, is because we have been living in a Capitalist society for so longwe think it is "natural."

 

[kash55]

No, the idea isn't bad. It just doesn't work in this world of ours. It has worked in small isolated villages. But at a Country in this Globalized worldthat we live in, it just don't work.

 

[penofski]

Originally Posted by shabooyah1124

True communism will never work. Ever.

Well....No pure system will work, hence there is no such thing as a Pure system in any country

 

[Master Zik]

Originally Posted by CallHimAR

Originally Posted by Master Zik

Power corrupts.

Only perfect people can make communism work.

Very true.

However the only reason we are not perfect, in what would most likely be Marx's opinion, is because we have been living in a Capitalist society for so long we think it is "natural."

Well that was his few on us and some other Western European countries. When you look at places like Cuba and Russia the corruption is clear.Although like someone said you could just call those dictatorships (but they did start off communist). China happens to be a special case.

I can understand both sides of the argument in capatalism vs. communism and both have their pros and cons. Communism leaves no room for fantasies of one dayliving in the lap of luxury where you're rich and don't have to work where as capatilism leaves plenty of room of the fear of hitting rock bottomliving on the street not knowing where you're next meal is gonna come from.

As people a lot of us are irrational when it comes to that and that's why most favor capitalism since communism in some ways takes away hope of a betterlife so to speak.

At the end of the day both have some form of a caste system but maybe that's cuz no country has really succeeded with either on a permanent basis.

 

[los yankees]

Originally Posted by Essential1

Originally Posted by Los Yankees

You guys are trippin saying that it doesn't work because there are lazy people. Perfect communism is only an idea, it is impossible to achieve. The way it works is people still work various jobs, earning a corresponding income based on the complexity and difficulty of your job. If a person is lazy and doesnt have a job, then they go to jail. There are many positive qualities such as free healthcare, schooling, retirement, etc. It actually turns out to work pretty well. The biggest problem is see is a common aspect of the "tragedy of the commons." since no one owns anything, everybody exploits and is careless about their surroundings. I believe that it will never work in the US, but a country such as Russia; it is the only successful form of government.

If Coummunism was so great in Russia why were the Soviets importing food and oil with the amount of rich natural resources they had?

I've had many convos with a professor who has studied Russian History for decades on this matter, and while he disagrees with Communism, he doesn't consider the Soviet's true communists, it was a dictatorship...

I am not arguing for or against communism here.



Of course they weren't a true Communism. Lenin started using Capitalist policies when he figured out all the BS he was saying before he controlled thecountry really wasn't realistic. After a few years in power he wrote of a "fuel crisis" in Russia and admitted that as a result of them not beingable to get the oil from their own country that it disrupted all Soviet work and his country could see "starvation and devastation". In a address toa Communist Party congress he said "there is nowhere we can turn to for such people except the old class." he was referring to the Capitalistbusinessmen he either killed or threw out of the country. After all the bickering he did before he was into power claiming how "easy" it was tocontrol an economy now seemed to require real businessmen. At the end of the day, they promoted a classless society, they had an egalitarian view, they wereauthoritative, and coercive. Karl Marx's definition of Communism was one that was "oppressive free", but it is impossible to have an oppressivefree society with the government controlling the means of production and not allowing private ownership.

If you look up Lenin's "New Economic Policy" you will see he used a Capitalist means of opening up the market in allowing private business tomake profit, he had no choice. As a result, the agriculture sector flourished with allowing the farmers to keep their profits from their surplus

Los Yankees. Why Do you go to the restaurant or get fast food. This is the reason they imported certain resources; it's more efficient and possibly cheaper. It wasn't Stalin that made "communism" look bad. It's the US that associates the word with evil. Stalin shaped Russia into a world power, he was a good leader. Sure there were sacrifices in the process, but aren't there always?

You have got to be kidding me.

 

[airmaxpenny1]

Originally Posted by Master Zik

Originally Posted by CallHimAR

Originally Posted by Master Zik

Power corrupts.

Only perfect people can make communism work.

Very true.

However the only reason we are not perfect, in what would most likely be Marx's opinion, is because we have been living in a Capitalist society for so long we think it is "natural."

Well that was his few on us and some other Western European countries. When you look at places like Cuba and Russia the corruption is clear. Although like someone said you could just call those dictatorships (but they did start off communist). China happens to be a special case.

I can understand both sides of the argument in capatalism vs. communism and both have their pros and cons. Communism leaves no room for fantasies of one day living in the lap of luxury where you're rich and don't have to work where as capatilism leaves plenty of room of the fear of hitting rock bottom living on the street not knowing where you're next meal is gonna come from.

As people a lot of us are irrational when it comes to that and that's why most favor capitalism since communism in some ways takes away hope of a better life so to speak.

At the end of the day both have some form of a caste system but maybe that's cuz no country has really succeeded with either on a permanent basis.

You think there is any less corrpution here than there is in Cuba??? There is far more here, we just don't even realize it. The past 8 years of the Bushadministration is rife with every type of societal ill and human rights violation one could imagine. And for you that act like the USSR failed, they are aboutto become a world power once again, while our star is fading. Within 40 years ago Russia will prolly be a more powerful country than us.

 

[jchambers]

Originally Posted by damnitzvin

everything is shared, thus everybody wins

Actually, it is a terrible idea invented to help the weak, lazy and stupid and it would never work in a real world scenario.

 

[jchambers]

Originally Posted by Sputnik

Los Yankees. Why Do you go to the restaurant or get fast food. This is the reason they imported certain resources; it's more efficient and possibly cheaper. It wasn't Stalin that made "communism" look bad. It's the US that associates the word with evil. Stalin shaped Russia into a world power, he was a good leader. Sure there were sacrifices in the process, but aren't there always?

You could also say "Hitler shaped Germany into a world power, he was a good leader."