Communism isn't such a bad idea if you think about it

[suckafree85]

Everything shared. But you can never be a better person though. Never have to strive for anything.

at Communism working in Cuba. Thats why people eat @#@# there and come to the US everyday.

I bet most of you dudes have never lived in a communist country. Yall should just stop..

 

[callhimar]

Originally Posted by Rjbrooks

On top of everything else. What would give anyone any incentive to strive to be the best if all I will receive for my hard work is the same for everyone else? It just doesn't work if we were all robots then maybe.

You strive to do your best because you know everyone else will as well. Also because everyone else is relying on you to do your job as efficientlyand as well as possible because your job is just as important as theirs.

Communism hasn't worked in Cuba, hence all the people coming to Florida on rafts. When Castro took power, he nationalized all tobacco farms (meaning he took the land from the rightful owners, and deemed it property of the Cuban government, because thats how communism works, the government owns EVERYTHING). In turn, the tobacco farmers and Cigar makers left Cuba, and went to the Dominican Republic, Mexico, El Salvador, Nicaragua, etc...and now all the best Cigars actually come from those countries. Regardless of whether or not the US allowed Cuba to export Cigars to us, the cigar industry in Cuba would have still all but died, because all the major players left and started all over in countries where they were free to run their business. Which is what happens when you take away the incentive for people to do business, they just take their business elsewhere.

See this is where you are wrong. The government, under true Communism, is not supposed to own everything. The people are supposed to get their share ofeverything. What you and I have seen take place in the world under the guise of Communism has really been a few selfish dictators who only want to do good forthemselves and not the people.

Logic like "everyone would just be lazy" and "no one would do as much as they could because they wouldn't have to" is exactly why Marxsaid that people in a Capitalist society would never be able to understand Communism because the ideas of Capitalism are basically a part of them and only whenthe "Revolution" happened and things actually changed would they truly see what would happen.

 

[sneakerlover88]

It's an idea that's better on paper than it is in practice.

 

[essential1]

Originally Posted by J Burner

Originally Posted by ScottiePimpin33

but then everyone would be lazy and nothing would get done because everyone knew they didnt have to do squat and still make the same amount of money as a doctor who is saving someones life on the daily

QFT. I don't know why this is a hard concept for people to grasp. If you tell me I can sit on my $*@ all day, and make the same living as someone who works 15 hour days, why the hell would anyone do anything? People have this ******ed view of communism and socialism, thinking that it will elevate the lower class up to the same level as the upper class, which is in truth $*@ backwards, as all historical evidence, and common sense, shows that the opposite occurs: the upper class is brought down to the lower class. So instead of having a mixture of rich, poor, and people in between, everyone is just poor...except, of course, for the government officials and leaders. Ask youself, if communism is so good, why has it failed everytime a country has tried it?

So when are you going to post you were wrong in here?

http://niketalk.yuku.com/reply/7324940#reply-7324940



OP I disagree with you though

 

[oidreez]

yea i always thought the idea behind it was well intentioned but in practice someone who works hard for their money has to share it with someone whodoesn't work as hard...

 

[airmaxpenny1]

Originally Posted by J Burner

Originally Posted by airmaxpenny1

Originally Posted by J Burner

Originally Posted by ScottiePimpin33

but then everyone would be lazy and nothing would get done because everyone knew they didnt have to do squat and still make the same amount of money as a doctor who is saving someones life on the daily

QFT. I don't know why this is a hard concept for people to grasp. If you tell me I can sit on my $*@ all day, and make the same living as someone who works 15 hour days, why the hell would anyone do anything? People have this ******ed view of communism and socialism, thinking that it will elevate the lower class up to the same level as the upper class, which is in truth $*@ backwards, as all historical evidence, and common sense, shows that the opposite occurs: the upper class is brought down to the lower class. So instead of having a mixture of rich, poor, and people in between, everyone is just poor...except, of course, for the government officials and leaders. Ask youself, if communism is so good, why has it failed everytime a country has tried it?

Russia failed. But Capitalism failed in America long term. Because it was a manipulated form of the actual idea in both instances. I would actually say Communism has worked very well in Cuba especially considering that the main reason they are poor is because the US has enforced a trade embargo that has severely affected there exporting.

Communism hasn't worked in Cuba, hence all the people coming to Florida on rafts. When Castro took power, he nationalized all tobacco farms (meaning he took the land from the rightful owners, and deemed it property of the Cuban government, because thats how communism works, the government owns EVERYTHING). In turn, the tobacco farmers and Cigar makers left Cuba, and went to the Dominican Republic, Mexico, El Salvador, Nicaragua, etc...and now all the best Cigars actually come from those countries. Regardless of whether or not the US allowed Cuba to export Cigars to us, the cigar industry in Cuba would have still all but died, because all the major players left and started all over in countries where they were free to run their business. Which is what happens when you take away the incentive for people to do business, they just take their business elsewhere.

You mean the people who left were all the ones who benefitted from Batista's awful reign, where racism, corruption and gangs dominated the country. AndCuba still has the best Cigars in the world, the people who left Cuba were mostly the affluent owners of the plantation, not the ones doing the work on thefields, actually growing the tobacco. Cuba under Batista was awful, he marketed himself solely to the upper class. Castro severly crippled the large gangs andmafia of Cuba, ended the racism that had dominated the country and created an education system that made every person have an equal chance. UnfortunatlyAmerica has done everything in its power to see Cuba fail, which is still hasn't, a testament to the country.

The problem you guys don't understand, is the people who are the richest don't work the hardest. Wall Street bankers fraud innocent hard-workingpeople, are as you call them "lazy" out of there money under the myth that they have some right to it.

 

[j burner]

Originally Posted by Essential1

Originally Posted by J Burner

http://niketalk.yuku.com/reply/7324940#reply-7324940



OP I disagree with you though

Because it isn't necessary to grave dig just so you can say "haha told you so." Especially when the entire thing was apparantly somebody'sidea of a joke. I didn't make it up, it was actually all over. So yea, I was wrong, but I was a victim of mis-information from credible sources, lots ofpeople thought this was the real deal.

 

[j burner]

Originally Posted by CallHimAR

See this is where you are wrong. The government, under true Communism, is not supposed to own everything. The people are supposed to get their share of everything.

Says who? Then who decides what the people's "fair share" is? How can the government give the people something it doesn't own? In other words, how can the government give people their "fair share" if the governemnt doesn' own any "fair shares" to give? WhatCastro did was take the tobacco farms, and cigar factories and tell those people "you now work for me, I will pay you what I think is your "fairshare" and I will reap the profits of your business."

Logic like "everyone would just be lazy" and "no one would do as much as they could because they wouldn't have to" is exactly why Marx said that people in a Capitalist society would never be able to understand Communism because the ideas of Capitalism are basically a part of them and only when the "Revolution" happened and things actually changed would they truly see what would happen.
See the above example about the tobacco farmers and cigar makers in Cuba. Castro took away their incentive to work, so they left and startedtheir businesses in other countries. Now the economies of those other countries get the benefits of their successful businesses. Its not a hard concept. Ifyou were running your own business, paying yourself a good wage, and doing business as you see fit, and then the government came and said "your businessis now ours, we will pay you what we think you should get paid, and the rest goes to us so we can give it to other people who aren't as successful asyou," you would shut down business, and go operate some where else that will allow you to continue running YOUR business how YOU see fit.

 

[essential1]

Originally Posted by J Burner

Originally Posted by Essential1

Originally Posted by J Burner

http://niketalk.yuku.com/reply/7324940#reply-7324940



OP I disagree with you though

Because it isn't necessary to grave dig just so you can say "haha told you so." Especially when the entire thing was apparantly somebody's idea of a joke. I didn't make it up, it was actually all over. So yea, I was wrong, but I was a victim of mis-information from credible sources, lots of people thought this was the real deal.

Dude it is a week and a half, since you posted it, that is not grave digging.. If it was a month I'd agree with you.. You're antipathy of Obama is veryrelevant to that, so much so when you are proven wrong, you are unwilling to admit it on your own, someone has to call you out. So there is never a point toargue with you because you lack intellectual curiosity..Hence when you are wrong, you just drop the subject.

 

[airmaxpenny1]

You really understand nothing about Cuba Bro.

 

[j burner]

Originally Posted by airmaxpenny1

You really understand nothing about Cuba Bro.

What am I missing? Castro didn't nationalize all industry, including tobacco farms? Castro didn't appropriate money of the wealthy? Tobacco farmersand Cigar makers didn't leave Cuba and start business in neighboring countries with similar soil and environmental conditions? Cubans didn't flock tothe US in anything that floats? Please, enlighten...

 

[rexanglorum]

In a communist system you can get people to work hard through threat of punishment and you can even get people to work diligently, for a while at least,through rewards related to prestige and special privileges.

The problem with communism, the problem that causes it to fail whenever it is tried is a lack of a price system. Without prices, it is impossible tosuccessfully coordinate the activities of millions and billions of people.

 

[RustyShackleford]

It is one of those theories that look perfect on paper but is horrible in practice.

 

[2wenty thre3]

Yup.

Very good concept, but just run horribly with the amount of dictators in the past.

 

[davidisgodly]

There is no reward in hard work. If we are working for the rest of our lives anyway, why not have a chance at success over those who did not work as hard.

The idea of communism, consumer goods would be monopolized. That means everyone is going to be rocking the same sneaker, same TV, same computer. Life is aboutindividualism.

Communism is socially detrimental to psychological growth.There would be no sense of duty in society, you'll work a dead end job producing for society ofequality.

Communism wanted to get rid of higher education, music, and art. What kind of world is that?

Leveling the playing fields is not possible. Donald trump isn't going to drop his $$$ to build furniture with regular folks.

Communism is playing with the idea that the idea of "myself" is gone. You'll be sheep to the gov't, who would still be there to regulate whatis made, what jobs are given, who eats what.

The genuinely smart people of the world would not be able to make great inventions, they'll be stuck with the rest.

It's like making the world all white, same weight, same size, same intelligence. what the hell is that?

 

[trelvis tha thrilla]

Originally Posted by CallHimAR

Originally Posted by Rjbrooks

On top of everything else. What would give anyone any incentive to strive to be the best if all I will receive for my hard work is the same for everyone else? It just doesn't work if we were all robots then maybe.

You strive to do your best because you know everyone else will as well. Also because everyone else is relying on you to do your job as efficiently and as well as possible because your job is just as important as theirs.

That is the biggest load of $$*@%@%% I have read on this forum. Are you serious? There is already slackers at every work place, what makes you think it wouldntget worse?

 

[Majorbread]

why would i hit the grindstone extra hard so some guy doing nothing has just as much as i do?

no motivation

 

[nyvictory45]

Humans are naturally selfish and greedy and I have no problem with that. What I do have a problem with are these theories that tell humans not be be human. Whywould a theory like this ever work? Why even waste time trying to implement or defend it?

Communism ftl

 

[lazyj10]

Originally Posted by J Burner

Originally Posted by ScottiePimpin33

but then everyone would be lazy and nothing would get done because everyone knew they didnt have to do squat and still make the same amount of money as a doctor who is saving someones life on the daily

QFT. I don't know why this is a hard concept for people to grasp. If you tell me I can sit on my $*@ all day, and make the same living as someone who works 15 hour days, why the hell would anyone do anything? People have this ******ed view of communism and socialism, thinking that it will elevate the lower class up to the same level as the upper class, which is in truth $*@ backwards, as all historical evidence, and common sense, shows that the opposite occurs: the upper class is brought down to the lower class. So instead of having a mixture of rich, poor, and people in between, everyone is just poor...except, of course, for the government officials and leaders. Ask youself, if communism is so good, why has it failed everytime a country has tried it?

Yeah because even in this watered down version of capitalism we currently live under, people don't bilk the system by being lazy andunmotivated, right?

 

[goldman stacks]

Originally Posted by LazyJ10

Originally Posted by J Burner

Originally Posted by ScottiePimpin33

but then everyone would be lazy and nothing would get done because everyone knew they didnt have to do squat and still make the same amount of money as a doctor who is saving someones life on the daily

QFT. I don't know why this is a hard concept for people to grasp. If you tell me I can sit on my $*@ all day, and make the same living as someone who works 15 hour days, why the hell would anyone do anything? People have this ******ed view of communism and socialism, thinking that it will elevate the lower class up to the same level as the upper class, which is in truth $*@ backwards, as all historical evidence, and common sense, shows that the opposite occurs: the upper class is brought down to the lower class. So instead of having a mixture of rich, poor, and people in between, everyone is just poor...except, of course, for the government officials and leaders. Ask youself, if communism is so good, why has it failed everytime a country has tried it?

Yeah because even in this watered down version of capitalism we currently live under, people don't bilk the system by being lazy and unmotivated, right?

You're missing the point.

It would be worse under Communism. At least Doctors are getting paid like doctors in capitalism. You can be lazy and receive welfare your whole life, but yourstandard of living will not be the same as the students who sacrificed weekends to study in law, med, and business school and who work 60+ hours at theircareer jobs.

There are lazy unmotivated useless people in every country, but at least you can work hard and make more than those ambition-less people if you have theopportunity. Communism, not so much.

Look on the bright side guys, if we implement communism: Med School will be a lot easier to get into

.

 

[airmaxpenny1]

Originally Posted by davidisgodly

There is no reward in hard work. If we are working for the rest of our lives anyway, why not have a chance at success over those who did not work as hard.

The idea of communism, consumer goods would be monopolized. That means everyone is going to be rocking the same sneaker, same TV, same computer. Life is about individualism.

Communism is socially detrimental to psychological growth.There would be no sense of duty in society, you'll work a dead end job producing for society of equality.

Communism wanted to get rid of higher education, music, and art. What kind of world is that?

Leveling the playing fields is not possible. Donald trump isn't going to drop his $$$ to build furniture with regular folks.

Communism is playing with the idea that the idea of "myself" is gone. You'll be sheep to the gov't, who would still be there to regulate what is made, what jobs are given, who eats what.

The genuinely smart people of the world would not be able to make great inventions, they'll be stuck with the rest.

It's like making the world all white, same weight, same size, same intelligence. what the hell is that?

I don't think a single thing you said here was right. Joe McCarthy still lives in the hearts of all Americans

 

[teamjordan79]

i believe it could work under the right conditions.
russia/ussr in the 70's was prosperous, better than the US in many aspects but many factors led to the fall of the soviet union, some of which wereexternal.


as for money being a motivational tool, i dont think its a very good one.

 

[teamjordan79]

Originally Posted by Rjbrooks

On top of everything else. What would give anyone any incentive to strive to be the best if all I will receive for my hard work is the same for everyone else? It just doesn't work if we were all robots then maybe.

incentive? a better society im guessing. u guys are missing the difference of benefit for the individual and society as a whole.
this is why it doesnt really work in practice though, b/c ppl and NTrs are greedy

 

[airmaxpenny1]

Originally Posted by TeamJordan79

i believe it could work under the right conditions.
russia/ussr in the 70's was prosperous, better than the US in many aspects but many factors led to the fall of the soviet union, some of which were external.


as for money being a motivational tool, i dont think its a very good one.

Thank you. This whole idea of money being a motivator is really a myth. Basically a few hands control the world's wealth and the spread ofit is very exclusive. The whole if you work hard enough you can make is a myth. Who works harder, the Mexican immigrant who works 2 jobs to put food on thetable for his family or the Wall Street exec who plays roulette with other people's cash and goes golfing during the work day. Unfortunately most peopleare view this pyramid that we live in from the bottom so they have some misconstrued idea of getting to that top which doesn't really exist in the firstplace.

 

[lunatic 809]

tell that to a cuban here in miami