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Dave Chappelle’s Not Kidding
The comedian’s proposal to defer having his name on his high school’s theater might seem conciliatory. But it’s a big bet on what he believes.
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Strange how "I'm team TERF" didn't make the cut...Dave's words;
"trans women are women"
Anti trans laws are "evil"
"My trans friend killed herself due to harrassment and it was tragic"
This is what every anti trans bigot is using to justify their their actions? Wut?
Dave Chappelle is probably more progressive than the average Americans on this subject.
At minimum he is well within the mainstream.
But the media has created this fantasy that he's like this anti trans nazi
It's absurd, and I think actually generates the anti trans backlash Dave is accused of generating.
Many in elite media have totally overreched on this subject
and are playing major part in foamenting this backlash and empowering bad actors.
Some of us actually watched the whole special, you know...
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The log cabin Republicans have been consistently banned from participating in major republican conventions, but you want the rest of us to believe that the GOP once gave up on LGBT issues.back in the hazy past.
now today
They spent all this time campaigning in the churches, away from the gaze of the general public. I don't think you have heard about the splits that have been happening in Christian circles over the question. Making these ideological splits happen take time and effort; they're not merely motivated by folks wanting to be called he/she/them.
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and the problem with this is what exactly?
this TERF hysteria is absurd, it's a term that basically means nothing at this point.
people act like he said he's team Klan and act like JK Rowling is David Duke. it crazy.
Dave didn't even describe radical feminist ideology correctly.
fundamentally he used it as a bit to say;
"while im willing to say "Trans women are women."
I also acknowledge that trans women aren't 100% exactly the same as women."
an opinion probably shared by 60% of democratic party voters. and the vast majority of americans.
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Maybe some people need to reevaluate why they're so eager to protect "under privileged" white people from a "privileged" black man
Also, hot coffee was all about fines... I guess if certain people want to pass legislation to fine Dave, they're free to try
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take it up with evangelicals quoted at the time frustrated that the republican party was retreating on lgbt issues.
take it up with the reporters at the time who quoted party strategists at the time saying they were backing away.
take it up with Trump willing to lie to appear supportive of LGBTQ rights.
it took time and effort to take gender ideology from a fringe crack potish theory to progressive dogma,
that can never be questioned.
IN 2019 Dennis Prager right wing crack pot brings up these ideas on real time.
and Bill Maher liberal audience reacts with laughter at the notion that this could ever become a thing
you want to minimize it the massive cultural change people are trying to enforce.
but its a change whether you are for it or against it.
to think that it doesn't generate backlash when you are pushing ideas out of step with the majority
i think is naive.
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Yeah but he also said a couple positive things about the trans community so we should just ignore the negative things he said
And a bunch of people agree with the negative things so it's really no big deal
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Dave Chappelle’s Not Kidding
The comedian’s proposal to defer having his name on his high school’s theater might seem conciliatory. But it’s a big bet on what he believes.www.theatlantic.com
I think the bet is going to work out for him in the long run.
We already seeing the worm turn on this gender ideology stuff.
I think there were many progressive's (including me) who were snookered into thinking
the scientific basis behind some of these medical interventions and gender concepts were strong.
but if you pull on one thread and it's clearly far far far more complicated than many activists have been painting.
I think people are going look back on this in years and be baffled
that people thought absorbing fringe queer theory into your political movement was a good idea.
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What negative thing?
you mean the scatalogical **** fart absurdist humour that he uses to create comedy
about EVERY OTHER IDENTITY GROUP ON THE PLANET EARTH?
if you think Chappelle's comedy is unacceptable
then you should say just that, don't hide behind Trans people.
i have no problem if you do not like vulgar comedy. that's fine.
but be consistent. Dave treated trans people the same way he treats every other identity group.
unless you want to assert they are some super minority that can't be the subject of comedy.
then say that. but implying that he harbours some unique bigotry towards trans people
despite explicitly stating support for their political rights.
is just bs
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This post seems detached from what is actually happened though
-Some GOP officials that were running national elections lied. That doesn't mean they retreated. The GOP was trying to pass state amendments to ban same-sex marriage, including Pence during this supposed retreat. Presidential campaign messaging can't be the totality of the GOP's position. You are asking people to be smart and stupid at the same time
The Bill Maher video you posted, it really seems like the audience is at the goofy Prager started his argument and Maher's reaction to it. Even Maher points out he is doing too much even after he states trans-gender women have an advantage over cisgender women in sports. Prager's proof of things going off the rails is Berkely putting tampon dissenters in the men's bathroom, which is pretty innocuous if given 1 minute of thought. If they give trans men the option to use the men's bathroom, I would assume most do and some trans and non-binary people still have periods, then why would you make them go into the women's bathroom to get a tampon if they need it. When you can provide a service to them at a relatively very small cost. Makes sense.
Using Maher's liberal audience as a barometer for liberal feelings on the issue. Then what about the fact they clap along to Maher's constant whing and ranting about everything involving transgender people. Even when he tries to act like some random on Twitter represents the Democratic Party's position
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It is weird to me that whatever good thing Dave said must be taken as dead serious
And the ****** stuff falls gets downplayed as just sloppy or artistic expression
Just say we should be really charitable to Dave, and uncharitable to his critics
Because really, that is all I see going on here
And the ****** stuff falls gets downplayed as just sloppy or artistic expression
Just say we should be really charitable to Dave, and uncharitable to his critics
Because really, that is all I see going on here
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Yeah, people held this view about violent video games in the 90s
Did we as a society say
"you know what, they're right"
Or did we say
"no, they're morons"
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Yash I just see this completely different.
I think there is a fundamental difference between the political stance of the 2016 GOP and George Bush GOP
And to me they very obviously retreated from LGBT issues and the few republicans that didn't paid a political price including Mike Pence.
The social consertivea perceived it as a retreat.
The reporting at the time quoting gop strategists perceived it as a retreat.
Imo they are laughing at the idea this one idiosyncratic thing in Berkley has any relevance to the broader democratic party.
But we'll never be able to mind read the crowd so putting down aside.
the concept of non binariy-ism, the idea that we need to be refering to gender identity instead of sex in conversations about reproductive biology.
You write about these things like they are just given.
These are big changes, whatever you think of them positive or negative.
If the public doesn't agree with you I think that creates a backlash that can and is being exploited by the republicans.
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Saw Dave in person on Sunday. Really good show
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It's fandom talking.
A good number of folks who criticized his latest rounds of specials (not him) acknowledged they didnt think he was motivated by xenophobia, and they made it known that they separated him from the art they were criticizing.
However, just because your actions do not have ill intent doesn't mean they can't do harm, and some people seem to be pretty selective in how they understand this pretty simple and universal concept.
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#Cancelled
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I don't know man I really think it's relatively clear.
We have explicit political statements (which are pretty rare in Dave's stand up). Trans women are women anti Trans laws are bad.
And we have stuff like "I'm gunna tenderize a woman's ******* like chicken cutlets"
To me it's really clear what is absurdist inmagery for the purpose of comedy and what is a political statement.
Like I said I have no problem if people are offended by Dave's style of comedy it's not for everyone.
But ultimately I see a lot of vague gesturing at transphobia,
when the closer fits totally within the comedic lens he applies to everything.
And is anything bends over backwards to state his explicit political positions. supporting trans people.
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That ***** still be going on and on this LGBTQ **** tho. It’s kinda annoying. Like man…talk about some other ****. It’s really nagging him. Dude comes across like a grumpy old man at times (which he now is).
But the ***** still funny as ****. His opener was funny as **** too. Local DC dude. Forgot to get his name
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Once again, we're talking about video game makers/comics and how they deal with the perception of their product, not how the general public receives it.
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This attitude elides so much, and to me stinks of elite capture.
who gets decide what words do harm?
is it the crowd?
because Dave is still popular, the special was view by bunches of people
the criticism was from a loud minority. so does that mean no harm?
Is it trans people? which trans people?
they aren't a monolith, i can find trans people, who hate it love it, are indifferent.
is it the middle management at entertainment companies?
is it twitter?
you act like it's obvious. but it isn't.
and you act like The Closer was clearly transphobic,
without any evidence other than vague gesturing at buzzwords like "TERF"
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Yeah sorry, I think observable reality, and me keeping up with state-level politics leads me to not buy your argument at all
Even in you first post, you compared a campaign message (lie) to the actual policy being passed
Like I said, just seems like bad qualitative statistics here
-Dude do you not watch Real-Time? I only recently stopped watching and I think you are reaching heavy with your take
And if you want to say we are mind-reading, ok fine. BUT YOU ARE THE ONE THAT USED IT TO ARGUE YOUR POINT, not me not
gry60
.Me?
-I write about things like they are just given? WTF are you even talking about? Dude people, actual people identify as that, that is what I am saying. I would know, I have taught them in college classrooms. I am saying that there is a category of people that are self-identified as non-binary exist. I don't need to buy into any level of progressive gender theory to say yeah "Hey there is a category that identifies as non-binary, they might use men's bathroom, and might need tampons". That is it, it is an observation. I nor Berkely building services need to buy into any progressive gender ideology to say "sure, makes sense to a dispenser in both bathrooms". We are doing it because we believe their biological sex makes them mensurate. So why should I or anyone else have a long debate about what to call them so we can rationalize don't offering the slightest bit of grace to some students?
Hey student, so to the other bathroom to get a tampoon because I feel progressive gender theory to spend a few dollars. Good grief man
That is why Prager point is so ridiculous to me and your argument unconvincing. You don't need to by into any progressive ideology to make that decision
-I swear it is reaching the point where anyone that doesn't agree with the centrsit liberal panic about trans activists must be duped. The same grace you claim is being denied to people that think like you or Dave or whatever, is being denied by people that just don't land on same side of the argument as them.
I am a progressive I am not ashamed to admit that at all. Years ago I said I don't believe transwomen don't have advantages in many sports. I remember making a comment saying that hormones to kids is gonna cause problems because of bad incentives for providers. Not just me, I saw plenty of progressive people saying this. This idea if people don't see things a certain way, they must have been duped.
But I also follow the news, read a ton on the issue, and have a girlfriend who was a social worker and now a therapist. No matter the disagreements have with some progressive activists on some issues, I think they have some very important points about how people underestimate how hostile the country is to transgender people. Because conservatives are using their undemocratic power to inflict cruelty upon people.
On aggregate, looking at the big picture I feel activists are more right than wrong. Because when you share your life with someone who drives homeless trans women and men to get rape kits, and begs state and county bureaucrats for resources to get them housing because they are targeted on the street, Dave Chappelle whining just seems to me like entitled elite nonsense on some level.
I'm am supposed to think is constant sensitive complainer is an ally to trans people, why? Because he said it during a stand-up routine. I don't think Dave is a bigot, but and I see no reason to be extra charitable to the dude. As I said a couple, my take on Dave is he is a sensitive ole head.
Most people my opinion is open to having a serious nuanced convo about the situation. And that sucks because the quality of life for trans individuals is under serious threat.
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This is my main issue
His defense force wants to pretend that his statements in no way, shape, or form could ever in a million years ever ever ever cause any degree of harm to anyone anywhere and I personally think that's disingenuous at best
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im arguing about political choices of the republican party.
the campaigning going from full throated opposition to lie to appear supportive of LGBT people is a retreat.
all the relevant stake holders perceived it that way at the time.
-Dude do you not watch Real-Time? I only recently stopped watching and I think you are reaching heavy with your take
And if you want to say we are mind-reading, ok fine. BUT YOU ARE THE ONE THAT USED IT TO ARGUE YOUR POINT, not me not
yah i brought it up i did not anticipate your interpretation, I thought it was pretty obvious what they are laughing about
but you have a different interpretation given that it's hard to prove who is right i figure we can just drop it
im saying that when you say people identify as x but their sex is y
the concept of gender is being replaced by sex and that is a big change that has lots of implications for many aspects of socitey.
whatever grace you want to offer is fine.
I'm not opposed to people using whatever bathrooms.
im not saying anyone who disagrees has been duped.
if people believe that transwoman should be included in sports despite there advantage.
that's fine, or that gender affirming care despite the limited evidence supporting it is the best way to treat adolescents with gender dysphoria cool.
or that non binary ism is a welcome change in socitey whatevs.
these matters are all up for debate. I fall on different sides of many of these questions.
but there are many people sighting faulty statistics, and obviously flawed studies that they haven't scrutinized to argue that opposition on these matters is bigotry. that's my problem.
and I think when an comedian voices opinions that are probably to the left of the general public on these matters
and is painted as an unrepentant bigot, that's where I have a problem with it.
I don't think that helps trans people.
I agree and like I said, if it is true that a dysfunctional discourse on this topic
is creating political advantages for republicans,
that imo is going to lead to more trans people harmed not less.
that's totally fair like I said, people can not like the special. ive never objected to that.
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Maybe the white men at Comedy Central are behind the movement to get Dave off Netflix Dave joked about punching a black lesbian in the face, yet the outrage is about jokes about white transgendered women.
Dave joked about punching a black lesbian in the face, yet the outrage is about jokes about white transgendered women.
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The Tyrone BIggums sketches are demeaning to a mostly black population suffering from crack addiction
and further stigmatize a vulnerable population and will lead to real world violence against addicts.
The Tyrone Biggums sketches satirical exploration of growing up during the crack epidemic
and offers incisive commentary on how drug addiction and vagrancy can become normalized when communities are ignored and starved of resources.
both legitimate interpretations, which interpretation is correct?
and who gets to decide what is harm and what is satire?
