Dave Chappelle Netflix Specials

[DCAllAfrican]

it is my view if we as a society accept a certain level of speech towards certain groups of people, then certain people then tend to feel empowered to react in unacceptable manners towards them

this pandemic has been a great example of this

we saw how reckless the former president and various people in high positions were in their words used towards Asian people, specifically Chinese people

there was a raise in violence towards those people and it’s not hard to connect the speech that was allowed to that raise

So what did DC EXPLICITLY say that CAN be used as a motivator in hate crimes vs. trans folks?

Since we are connecting speech to crime/violence towards certain groups.

 

[IATT]

So what did DC EXPLICITLY say that CAN be used as a motivator in hate crimes vs. trans folks?

Since we are connecting speech to crime/violence towards certain groups.

you can look up what those in that group called offensive, they would know better than I

and also find it concerning that when confronted by those groups and/or the young adults from that high school, he’s trying to justify and/or be dismissive

as a black person, I am glad the rest of your country is getting a first hand lesson in the lies of police and how quickly media repeats those lies with what happened in uvalde.. because we see how often the complaints of black people are dismissed unless there is painfully obvious evidence.. and that’s because certain groups don’t value our lives in the same manner as others

 

[IATT]

Only cause I literally just saw this

a us senator, 1 of the ranking members of 1 of the 2 major parties in 2022 is still using this racist term

native Americans we’re massacred.. and then they became the bad guys for John Wayne movies and caricatures for sports teams.. if you don’t have the little respect to correct these small things it’s no wonder certain folks are so vehemently against equal rights for others

 

[gry60]

we are talking about art not political speech.

What are you trying to say here? That art never crosses into politics?

How can one comment on the condition of society without ever making political statements, funny or otherwise?

that's why most normal consumers will tolerate offensive language in comedy.

To an extent.

We're not just talking about any offensive language; there's a difference between using slurs and using curse words. Your argument consistently fails to acknowledge that.

language that some may find libratory, some might find dehumanizing, it's not clear or obvious.

Freely using the n-word is liberating for the racist. Things are very clear and obvious when it comes to using slurs, which is why smart bigots generally dog-whistle. I'm not sure this is the argument you want to make.

my point is outside of more specific calls to harm, or promotion of specific ideology.
it's too difficult to sus out what is harmful and what isn't, it's rarely that clear.

At this point, I'm just curious about your position on the southern strategy, because it was a communication tool designed to paint black folks in a negative way without resorting to expletives.

subjective notions of harm

Your argument demands that you ignore all the ways in which speech can be harmful without being explicit too. That's pretty disingenuous.

imo it's just something that will be abused by bad actors and make it impossible to create good art

I just don't buy this.

If excellent and disruptive art can exist in an environments in which government entities can crack down on dissenting opinions on a whim, excellent art can exist in environments where private groups criticize the artists and the topics addressed by the art. This is a weak argument designed to protect those who want to jump on the art gravy train without having to address the controversies raised by their product. Ultimately, this can even become detrimental to the art itself because the lack of accountability tends to invite mediocrity.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

What are you trying to say here? That art never crosses into politics?

How can one comment on the condition of society without ever making political statements, funny or otherwise?

the expectations and context of political speech are different than a stand up comedy stage.

We're not just talking about any offensive language; there's a difference between using slurs and using curse words. Your argument consistently fails to acknowledge that.

Louis CK became a darling of progressive media critics, with a stand up special that liberally used the N-word.
and he continued to use it in his comedy before his me too fall.

The mention of a slur does not automatically make the content harmful.
it's not some on or off switch.

and The Closer near the end he mentions he used to call people the t slur in his bits and that he's stopped.
so what is the specific part of this that is so particularly dehumanizing that is a difference in kind than his usual approach to comedy.

and again you get left with the problem who gets to decide.
im a black person who has no problem with Louis nword bits, some black people im sure do have a problem?
minds can differ but using subjective claims of harm as a justification is too hazy a standard to operate from.

At this point, I'm just curious about your position on the southern strategy, because it was a communication tool designed to paint black folks in a negative way without resorting to expletives.

its not relevant. the southern strategy is bad because their the ideological goals were bad.
the southern strategy did not create racism.

Dave Chappelle is explicitly supportive of trans rights, so comparing it to the southern strategy doesn't make any sense.

Your argument demands that you ignore all the ways in which speech can be harmful without being explicit too. That's pretty disingenuous.

im not ignoring anything, the point, which you refuse to answer is who gets to decide?
so some speech can be intepreted as harmful, who gets to decide what interpretation is correct?

there is no good answer to this that's why using subjective interpretations of artistic speech
and treating them as actual harm is unworkable, and empowers the most cynical and hyper neurotic scolds.

If excellent and disruptive art can exist in an environments in which government entities can crack down on dissenting opinions on a whim, excellent art can exist in environments where private groups criticize the artists and the topics addressed by the art. This is a weak argument designed to protect those who want to jump on the art gravy train without having to address the controversies raised by their product. Ultimately, this can even become detrimental to the art itself because the lack of accountability tends to invite mediocrity.

fine not impossible, just way more difficult.
I do not see the purpose of making it way more difficult to do art, journalism, science ect
in pursuit of a project that has little to no material benefit to the people it claims to help.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

you can look up what those in that group called offensive, they would know better than I

and who gets to decide?

i've heard from trans people who don't have a problem with it.
I've heard from trans people whose opinion is mixed.
and ive heard from some who think it's irredeemably transphobic

all valid interpretations.
who gets to decide what is harmful?

 

[IATT]

ain’t hard for a while person to say “n word”

we all know which of the many available N words he is referring to

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Is not declaring your pronouns harmful?
are people who question the practice of pronoun declaration, or the concept of They/Them pronous
transphobic and are doing harm?

I've heard from hyper neurotic busybody scolds that this is an essential practice?
and ive heard from well meaning people that its important
but I've heard from some trans people they find it annoying and invalidating.

i've read some trans people who are openly hostile to non binary-ism
and think it trivializes the suffering that comes with gender dysphoria

who gets to decide?

this trans person seems to have mixed feelings.

this has basically my position on this pronoun stuff and they/them
is my opinion no longer harmful because a trans person said it?


it would be a lot easier if we could just outsource our thinking to members of "the group"

but its rarely that cut and dry.

 

[IATT]

and who gets to decide?

those people

im not going fully understand what they are experiencing without talking to them and trying to empathize

i don’t need to justify the continued cruelty towards a group of people.. I wouldn’t sign up for the shh

 

[osh kosh bosh]

those people

which ones?

 

[IATT]

which ones?

the people actually affected

I don’t care what Dan synder or other white people or people on their payroll think of the former team name

same goes for the logo that was used for the Cleveland baseball team.. or the use of any Native American in a sports context for majority white fan bases to play dress up

i care about the native Americans

it’s the same logic I use for anything else.. I don’t need to hear from white people on the N word or anyone else other than black people

feeling the need to be unnecessarily cruel to others is nothing new

 

[osh kosh bosh]

the people actually affected

which. ones.

you just keep going around in circles.

who gets the decide?
"The groups"

who in the group gets to decide?
"those people"

Which people?
"those affected"

the people affected have varying opinions
which of those people gets to decide?

 

[IATT]

Seems pretty simple to me

if a gay person tells me some shh is offensive, I believe them

if a Native American tells me some shh is offensive, I believe them

if a Jewish person tells me some shh is offensive, I believe them

if I’m not a member of any of those groups and I already know how unkind the world is, not sure why I would fight them on some shh that doesn’t impact my life 1 bit

 

[IATT]

Like I look at the chappelle shh in a simple manner

he’s a black man, clearly he should be aware of the f’d up shh they could say to him based just on that

his wife is Filipina, he should get some f’d up shh could be said to her based just on that

he has multiple children of mixed race, again f’d up shh could be said to them based just on that




he was told by members of a community which he isn’t a part of about some shh.. he could have just dropped it, apologized and moved on

his not Jeff foxworthy.. he has clearly demonstrated he’s capable of more than that subject matter, but he keeps addressing the shh

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Seems pretty simple to me

if a gay person tells me some shh is offensive, I believe them

if a Native American tells me some shh is offensive, I believe them

if a Jewish person tells me some shh is offensive, I believe them

if I’m not a member of any of those groups and I already know how unkind the world is, not sure why I would fight them on some shh that doesn’t impact my life 1 bit

but which....you know what nvm man.

 

[gry60]

Seems pretty simple to me

if a gay person tells me some shh is offensive, I believe them

if a Native American tells me some shh is offensive, I believe them

if a Jewish person tells me some shh is offensive, I believe them

if I’m not a member of any of those groups and I already know how unkind the world is, not sure why I would fight them on some shh that doesn’t impact my life 1 bit

osh kosh bosh this is who gets to decide.

"Who gets to decide what's offensive" is such an entitled question too. Entitled and without a hint of self-awareness, especially when we look at Black folks in the Americas, who redefine themselves every generation without anyone else questioning them or their motives.

Do onto others...

 

[IATT]

but which....you know what nvm man.

is showing a little bit of respect for people different from yourself that hard to understand?

 

[osh kosh bosh]

osh kosh bosh this is who gets to decide.

"Who gets to decide what's offensive" is such an entitled question too. Entitled and without a hint of self-awareness, especially when we look at Black folks in the Americas, who redefine themselves every generation without anyone else questioning them or their motives.

Do onto others...

You guys are going around in circles pretending like you answerd the question.

Those groups aren't monoliths, so which members of the group get to decide what is harmful?

Who gets to decide? You can't gesture vaguely at the group. You actually need an answer.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

is showing a little bit of respect for people different from yourself that hard to understand?

It's not

I have enough respect for them to acknowledge the differences of opinion within a group
and not treat them like a monolith.

I think you should try it sometime.

 

[IATT]

Not a huge problem in my life, if anyone from any group I’m not a part of corrects me on some shh I listen to them

as I said previously, if someone corrects me on how to pronounce their name i ain’t going argue with them it’s their name

Like the name Jaime.. someone corrects me and tells me it’s pronounced “HIE-me”, cool that’s what I am calling that person.. someone tells me they go by “jay-me”, again cool

it’s their name, why am I going fight them on it

 

[thehealthinspector]

I'm just glad we're past the whole phoney "Dave Chappelle doesn't care about black trans people" narrative, I'm sure he cares far more about these people than these woke clowns

Sadly we're not past the protecting white people from a black man narrative

 

[Master Zik]

History is filled with numerous examples of speech leading directly to harm

Donald trump has numerous examples of him not being bout that life and yet a whole bunch of idiots have been inspired by his words to do harm

This argument is no longer about Dave Chappelle right?

 

[1995]

Is the stars and bars motif offensive?

 

[gry60]

You guys are going around in circles pretending like you answerd the question.

Those groups aren't monoliths, so which members of the group get to decide what is harmful?

Who gets to decide? You can't gesture vaguely at the group. You actually need an answer.

You're going around pretending like you don't understand the answer.

Is the stars and bars motif offensive?

Apparently not, since Kanye West once sported it on a jacket.

Who gets to decides whether it is harmful to call women *****es and ****? Some women don't have a problem with that, they're not a monolith on the issue.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Again, just don't joke about anything LGBT related since there is no clear cut line drawn that shouldn't be crossed.