Dave Chappelle Netflix Specials

[thehealthinspector]

As with the Gruden thing, people generally exhibit a pattern in their commentary. Once he made racist comments about Mr. Smith's lips so casually and on a work email server, it was a pretty safe bet that more abhorrent commentary was coming down the pipeline. And what happened? More abhorrent commentary came down the pipeline into public view.

MMA is bafoonery to me personally, so I didn't see the comments he's referencing but if he did invoke the "Antifa Boogeyman", it wouldn't be a stretch (also wouldn't be a guarantee) that the same person would invoke those similar comically stupid talking points in another unrelated thread.

So basically we can describe one thing we think we know what we're talking about to make it seem like we know about unrelated matters, but really it's just a bunch of nonsense?

Is that a stretch or a guarantee?

 

[Kinfolk]

So basically we can describe one thing we think we know what we're talking about to make it seem like we know about unrelated matters, but really it's just a bunch of nonsense?

Is that a stretch or a guarantee?

Hey, mental gymnastics is an exercise you're going to undertake on your own.

If you need someone to explain to you how a reputation for low-effort, lazy thinking, specifically invoking the dreaded "Antifa Boogeyman", can carry over from one thread to another unrelated one, you don't need to be here.

 

[thehealthinspector]

Hey, mental gymnastics is an exercise you're going to undertake on your own.

If you need someone to explain to you how a reputation for low-effort, lazy thinking, specifically invoking the dreaded "Antifa Boogeyman", can carry over from one thread to another unrelated one, you don't need to be here.

I don't need to be here?

I've been ON TOPIC the entire time

Are you suggesting that others can simply **** post just because they "believe" in social justice?

 

[Kinfolk]

I don't need to be here?

I've been ON TOPIC the entire time

Are you suggesting that others can simply **** post just because they "believe" in social justice?

Yes. You don't need to be here as in, you are unable to comprehend something so basic, that NT may not be the place for you because simple things are beyond you. And that's not to say that NT is some bastion of highbrow commentary.

It wasn't a matter of being on or off topic.

You are having a hard time grasping a very basic concept which is- a reputation will follow you from thread to thread.

But like I said you're on your own with the mental gymnastics and now ignored, so don't waste your time replying.

 

[Present]

Surprised to see Netflix standing by Chapelle on this one (although a large portion of this is surely money motivated)

At some point the world has got to stop dismissing what was said & done & replacing it with their projections.

What in your opinion was said and done by Dave Chappelle that requires the entire World to dismiss?

Ex: Can you quote something he said (specifically)?

Not trying to be obtuse or aloof. I notice the passionate responses so please share.

I'd actually like to know in all honesty what exactly you mean.

Ex: "Gender is a fact." "Every human being on Earth had to pass through the legs of a Woman to be on Earth" - Dave Chappelle.

Are these the types of things the World should be dismissing?

Is that a projection or a fact?

 

[gry60]

I have referenced and enjoyed much of Dave Chappelle's comedy over the years, but I believe that comedy is a powerful tool that ought to be used ethically. Dave has the shown the ability to do this as well as anyone, which makes his lapses especially disappointing.
He is better than this.

This.

It's funny that you point out that he could do much better, and his hardcore fans jump at your throat.

Had this been any lower level comedian this special would have been pulled, not of actual merit or necessity but due to complaining & bad press.

And this is exactly what I'm talking about.

It's literally the opposite that is happening: because it was Chappelle, nobody in the audience booed when he implied that one of the women in his stories couldn't be raped because she was dressed in overalls and looked manly.

The funny thing is, he willingly inserted those types of "jokes" ("I'm going all the way in"), probably as a dare, and his die hard fans are too busy crying about cancel culture to realize that none of this crudeness was needed.

If you guys believe that anything goes when it's time to make people laugh, I hope we don't hear from any of in a couple of weeks. Blackface season is coming, and they're gonna call it artistic expression and make you talk out of both sides of your mouth.

 

[thehealthinspector]

Yes. You don't need to be here as in, you are unable to comprehend something so basic, that NT may not be the place for you because simple things are beyond you. And that's not to say that NT is some bastion of highbrow commentary.

It wasn't a matter of being on or off topic.

You are having a hard time grasping a very basic concept which is- a reputation will follow you from thread to thread.

But like I said you're on your own with the mental gymnastics and now ignored, so don't waste your time replying.

No, I think I will reply, read it or not, if you want me gone you're gonna have to get me banned for breaking the rules, you're not gonna force me out of here with whatever your opinion is

I'm sure I've been blocked because of failing to to understand something as opposed to whatever political beliefs you lack the power to enforce

 

[gry60]

Ex: "Gender is a fact." "Every human being on Earth had to pass through the legs of a Woman to be on Earth" - Dave Chappelle.

If you want to argue that the measure of a woman is dependent on her ability to have kids (or menstruate), does that mean that sterile and menopausal women are lower on the scale of womanhood?

 

[Present]

If you want to argue that the measure of a woman is dependent on her ability to have kids (or menstruate), does that mean that sterile and menopausal women are lower on the scale of womanhood?

I'd like you to tell me if Gender is a fact (in your opinion).

Ex: "Every human being on Earth had to pass through the legs of a Woman to be on Earth"

Is this a fact or not?

I'm only asking your opinion to better understand your position.

That's all.

No animosity here and I'm not trying to win any debates or "argue".

 

[DCAllAfrican]

I come in peace.

I am honestly asking this question and am not trying to trap you or anything.

TO YOU, What type of jokes are acceptable when it involves a straight person making a joke about anything LGBT?

If it is a hard question to answer cool, but it seems like people (not you necessarily) are indirectly saying those types of jokes are off-limits.

EYE personally think folks should stay away from it because it is a lose/lose situation, but just wondering your thoughts.

I come in Peace.

Methodical Management
gry60
IATT
RustyShackleford

 

[RustyShackleford]

I'd like you to tell me if Gender is a fact (in your opinion).

Ex: "Every human being on Earth had to pass through the legs of a Woman to be on Earth"

Is this a fact or not?

I'm only asking your opinion to better understand your position.

That's all.

No animosity here and I'm not trying to win any debates or "argue".

Is it though

c-section?

Edit: Only really saying this because it kinda shows how lazy jokes can be repurposed as social talking points (not saying you are doing this though). Like some dudes might really be thinking this is a gotcha, when it can be dismissed without even getting to a discussion regarding the transgender community.

 

[trynafeelmink]

This.

It's funny that you point out that he could do much better, and his hardcore fans jump at your throat.


And this is exactly what I'm talking about.

It's literally the opposite that is happening: because it was Chappelle, nobody in the audience booed when he implied that one of the women in his stories couldn't be raped because she was dressed in overalls and looked manly.

The funny thing is, he willingly inserted those types of "jokes" ("I'm going all the way in"), probably as a dare, and his die hard fans are too busy crying about cancel culture to realize that none of this crudeness was needed.

If you guys believe that anything goes when it's time to make people laugh, I hope we don't hear from any of in a couple of weeks. Blackface season is coming, and they're gonna call it artistic expression and make you talk out of both sides of your mouth.

Or they simply didn't deem it to be as offensive or crude as some people seem to view it. If someone inevitably does some blackface in the coming months, i'm gonna call them corny & move about my day as i do any other day.

I'm not going to sit here & Deem it violent & act as if it's a call of arms to end my life, but everyone reacts to things differently.

 

[Present]

Is it though

c-section?

Edit: Only really saying this because it kinda shows how lazy jokes can be repurposed as social talking points (not saying you are doing this though). Like some dudes might really be thinking this is a gotcha, when it can be dismissed without even getting to a discussion regarding the transgender community.

See for me its not trans vs woman vs men vs CIS vs etc.

If we cant agree that a fact is a fact then what's the point?

No good faith in that.

A “Good Faith” argument or discussion is one in which both parties agree on the terms on which they engage, are honest and respectful of the other person's dignity, follow generally-accepted norms of social interaction, and genuinely want to hear what the other person thinks and has to say.

 

[trynafeelmink]

What in your opinion was said and done by Dave Chappelle that requires the entire World to dismiss?

Ex: Can you quote something he said (specifically)?

Not trying to be obtuse or aloof. I notice the passionate responses so please share.

I'd actually like to know in all honesty what exactly you mean.

Ex: "Gender is a fact." "Every human being on Earth had to pass through the legs of a Woman to be on Earth" - Dave Chappelle.

Are these the types of things the World should be dismissing?

Is that a projection or a fact?

I'm a little confused,

I am on Dave's "side" if you want to word it like that. I simply don't believe anything said in that special was this violent hate speech people are making it out to be. Chapelle has actually touched on the trans issue several times over the years & has stated his intentions & thoughts on it clearly.

People dismiss that in order to fit him into whatever "hateful" box they anna throw him in.

 

[RustyShackleford]

See for me its not trans vs woman vs men vs CIS vs etc.

If we cant agree that a fact is a fact then what's the point?

No good faith in that.

A “Good Faith” argument or discussion is one in which both parties agree on the terms on which they engage, are honest and respectful of the other person's dignity, follow generally-accepted norms of social interaction, and genuinely want to hear what the other person thinks and has to say.

Why should someone agree if someone that is wrong

If someone asked to agree that all human beings came into this world by vaginal births. That is not a fact. It just isn't

Maybe people should stop depending on quick gotchas, using jokes as talking points, and really have a nuanced discussion

Irrelevant points inserted needlessly into a discussion doesn't seem like it would foster a good-faith debate.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

By cherry-picking one particular stat nobody here cited, as if that's the only meaningful measure of harm?

I referenced Kenneth Clark's doll study to illustrate the impacts of stereotyping and public derision beyond individual "hurt feelings." You don't want to talk about that.
You want to talk about this "straight line to mass murder" and 35 year life expectancy nobody in this thread invoked.

i don't think the closer is any where close to simple stereotyping or public derision.
Kenneth Clark's doll study was used as an argument against jim crow. I do not think The Closer bares any resemblance to that.

Ah, here we go: back on the hobby horse. That didn't take long.

Move over, trans activists of color who dare take issue with public ridicule as product, there's a liberal elite academic orthodoxy to tilt at.

ah here we go, wrapping yourself in the opinions of trans activist of color to delegitimize dissenting opinion.

yes of course im pointing this out because I think it's bad for marginalized people,
just like you think The Closer is bad for trans people.

I'd never claim to be a film buff, but we have very different taste.
I'm not of the opinion that innovative cinematography is a redeeming quality in a piece of racist propaganda.

If celebrating "Confederate values" bothers you less than being peer-pressured into using "person-first" language to avoid dehumanization, that's your prerogative.


Personally, I fail to see the value in applying a lower standard to content that has a broader reach.
If someone makes offensive jokes in a private email, it's disqualifying, but if Sam Kinison screams them into a microphone it's art?


There are more existential threats to people's lives than offensive entertainment products, but I'd argue that it is a positive that companies who produce such content are subject to public pressure and made to confront the impact of these works.
I've yet to see progress in the absence of pressure.

yea we disagree, i don't draw the line there.

i watched birth of a nation in film school, I didn't stand up and declare the teacher a racist or accuse him of "celebrating confederate values. "

again perhaps I have a blind sport for those who make art.
but you don't think it's possible you have you're own blind sports informed by your class and status?

I think it's fine if you think Birth of a Nation is inappropriate in all circumstances.
It just feels like the implication is those who disagree are bigots. or celebrating confederate values.

 

[Present]

Hopefully not oversharing but my Uncle Wesley was homosexual and suffered a great deal for it all his life since childhood.

He was born back in the 60's and was brave enough to be who he was in a time where you could be killed in the street for being openly gay and nobody would even bat an eye.

My uncle was born in Norfolk Va, and by the time the 80's hit he was a pioneer before the term LGBTQ even existed.

Went to his funeral in the early 90's as a kid and saw a TON of people show up like he was a celebrity, but I was too young to know why exactly.

All I knew was there was a ton of folks of all colors, some looked very flamboyant and others I could see working as a bank teller.

The one thing they had in common was respect for my Uncle. Some cried even more than my own family.

Saw a picture of him in a wedding dress (full make-up) when I got older and realized how strong he had to have been to stand out front, in public, wearing a dress, in Norfolk, VA, in the 1980's.

AIDS took him from us back then, but I wonder what he would have thought about the special had he lived, and would he even imagine the World today.

 

[LouBrickaSian]

I come in Peace.

any time a person says this, be on high alert

 

[Present]

Why should someone agree if someone that is wrong

If someone asked to agree that all human beings came into this world by vaginal births. That is not a fact. It just isn't

Maybe people should stop depending on quick gotchas, using jokes as talking points, and really have a nuanced discussion

Irrelevant points inserted needlessly into a discussion doesn't seem like it would foster a good-faith debate.

Bad faith Fam.

Deflection.

This is why we cant get anywhere because we are already starting off wrong.

Anyway - I guess no answer is all the answer I need.

I just don't think those Women (like my Sister who damn near died from a C-Section) would appreciate being labelled a "gotcha" or a talking point".

But that's just me.

 

[trynafeelmink]

Why does there seem to be an issue in separating women & trans women, how has that somehow begun to get spinned as disrespectful as well

 

[RustyShackleford]

Bad faith Fam.

Deflection.

This is why we cant get anywhere because we are already starting off wrong.

Anyway - I guess no answer is all the answer I need.

I just don't think those Women (like my Sister who damn near died from a C-Section) would appreciate being labelled a "gotcha" or a talking point".

But that's just me.

I thought we were talking generally? So now you weren't and you feel I'm deflecting? I really don't understand

I answered your question. Seems like it just wasn't the answer you wanted.

But anyway, I just pointed out that using the whole vaginal births thing is silly because of obvious reasons. I even said I wasn't directly talking to you when I said it.

I don't think people born through c-sections, which is about 1/3 of babies every year, would appreciate their humanity being called into question because someone tried to repurpose a lazy joke from a comedy special as some indisputable fact.

But that is just me...

 

[DCAllAfrican]

any time a person says this, be on high alert

What was your previous screen-name?

 

[osh kosh bosh]

1. Um, so what?

When Ezra Klein and Sam Harris were having their back and forth, Klein was trying to point out that Charles Murray had a bad agenda, and that his research on intelligence can't be looked at in a vacuum because of it. Harris refused to accept this. So Klein mentioned how Murray wrote articles about how he counted up contributions to the encyclopedia and attached that to a racial argument. Harris got upset because he wanted to keep the conversation within the confines of what he viewed as purely academic research.

Meth did post articles that present a good faith nuanced case about the unique difficulties facing the transgender community. He has made his own argument on the subject. Seems like he brought up the book title to show the author has general agenda, you can't just look at the article by itself if it ties back to a larger body of work, which damn sure appears to be in somewhat bad faith. Same way Klein tried to show Harris Murray wasn't just a researcher, he had a racialist agenda.

again this reads to me as the bad people are wrong because they are bad.
You want to tell me they are bad okay. but it just really seems hard for me dismiss the claims.

lots of reputable outlets were stating that the fact that trans women have a 35 year old life expectancy based on a blog post from glaad.

and the source of this statistic appears to be from a report surveying trans people in latin America.

like if Satan himself wrote this, you still wouldn't think hmmmmmm?

my point in all this is not to claim that hate crimes against trans people don't exist
im sure it does.

my point is meth and many activists want to say that level of potential harm makes The Closer dangerous transgression.

But strong claims should require pretty strong evidence.
I don't think evidence or harm as it relates to the closer is particularly strong enough. that you can question it without it being motivated by transphobia.

2. But "hate crimes is a hoax" thing refers to the article, that is the grenade. Not your general position. He is taking issue with your questioning the idea what transgender violence is as widespread as a progressive claim, and to argue this point you posted an article, which made a claim and arguments you didn't vet. I can't speak for Meth but this again seems like he is taking issue with the posting of the article, throwing that grenade, not that he is simply summarizing your argument as simply "hate crimes are a hoax"

if his intention was not to summarize my argument as such, okay fine my bad.
I don't think my interpretation of it was unreasonable. but if im wrong. my bad.

Let us look at the order of events though. Meth posted articles before you. Your articles were a response to the ones he posted. The articles acknowledged the issues with data collection, the talked about how discrimination put transgender people into vulnerable economic positions that in turn put them in greater danger. They didn't meet you criteria of proving direct and clear causation, but they presented a rather fair and nuanced argument. They did not fall into the category of progressive gone too far arguments you seem to have a major issue with.

So if your articles were a response to his, and they didn't really disprove his in many real way, which is fine. But why the onus is on him now to disprove everything presented in your articles?

And if you say you just posted them to show there is not a consensus on the issue, ok fine, but so what? That doesn't really refute any argument in any real way eiher.

Meth wants to assert his assessment of the scale of harm as undeniable.
It is not undeniable, there's more than enough play in the joints for reasonable mind to differ.[/QUOTE]

 

[Present]

I thought we were talking generally? So now you weren't and you feel I'm deflecting? I really don't understand

I answered your question. Seems like it just wasn't the answer you wanted.

But anyway, I just pointed out that using the whole vaginal births thing is silly because of obvious reasons. I even said I wasn't directly talking to you when I said it.

I don't think people born through c-sections, which is about 1/3 of babies every year, would appreciate their humanity being called into question because someone tried to repurpose a lazy joke from a comedy special as some indisputable fact.

But that is just me...

Nah - you aint alone at all Fam.

Question: Is Gender a fact? Yes or No?

Result of asking said Question in 2021:

"But anyway, I just pointed out that using the whole vaginal births thing is silly because of obvious reasons. I even said I wasn't directly talking to you when I said it."

I don't think pointing out facts is "silly" at all.

Unfortunately for some folks, reality does not conform to social constructs.

I just wanted to know where these folks were coming from and if we could find a common ground.

Oh well.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

I'm really to be concerned that stand-ups can't freely crack jokes about transgender individuals?

There are situations where a mob mentality can go too far in what they believe is social progress. And some people can get unfairly and disproportionately punished

But I worry about cases like what happened at Smith College as opposed to aspiring stand-ups having less subjects to work with

again ill repeat it's possible I have a blind spot for art and artists. ill cop to it.
so take this with the appropriate grain of salt.

but I think it's bad,
I think Donald Glover made an twitter post along the lines oh

"We're getting boring stuff and not even experimental mistakes because people are afraid of getting cancelled." as a result "artists feel like they can only experiment with aesthetic."

art is an important part of having a vibrant and free socitey.

and I think it trickles down to the rest of socitey.

it leads to a lot of Jon Grudens; people who know how to say and do the right things in public.
but hold the same toxic ideas in private and in the voting booth.