Dave Chappelle Netflix Specials

[QU!K]

Just saw this article

Dave Chappelle’s Betrayal

Poet Saeed Jones used to consider himself a longtime fan of the comedian. But Chappelle’s new Netflix special “The Closer,” which fixates on gay and trans people, feels like a stab in the back.

www.gq.com

 

[osh kosh bosh]

and Ill end with this, like I said we need to find a way to balance, liberty and fairness and inclusion.

I actually think Methodical Management does an excellent job of this moderating this forum.
and balancing that.
I am not some anti moderation, anything goes free speech absolutist.

you can look at my past posts on the subject of trans people and I would bet im probably much closer to Meth than the average NTer.

I think if you just stop with the attempts at mockery, I think my disagreement is pretty nuanced.

I really and truly hope that we can create a more open and inclusive socitey and address the issues facing the trans community.

I just also think it's okay if I disagree a little bit of where we draw the line around art.

 

[LouBrickaSian]

Just saw this article

Dave Chappelle’s Betrayal

Poet Saeed Jones used to consider himself a longtime fan of the comedian. But Chappelle’s new Netflix special “The Closer,” which fixates on gay and trans people, feels like a stab in the back.

www.gq.com

who?

 

[Brownstone]

The emails came up as part of an investigation into the Washington Football Team.

Accountability doesn’t have an expiration date.

if that upsets anyone, I’m laughing in your face.

To me the fact that the emails aren't released yet tells me its pretty damn bad
-Calls Obama and Biden *******
-Homophobic slurs
-Doesn't want players taking a knee
-Racial comment towards D smith
-Commenting on Cheerleaders


"I never meant to hurt anyone"

-Yeah we know fam, you meant to be a **** in private.Alone these comments are all bad, in context it shows the character he is. A racist, closeted bigot. Oh the irony of him hating gays.

 

[LouBrickaSian]

-Yeah we know fam, you meant to be a **** in private.Alone these comments are all bad, in context it shows the character he is. A racist, closeted bigot. Oh the irony of him hating gays.

gruden likes men? or cause he got that dude carl nasir?

urban meyer should send gruden a nice gift

chucky got axed caused he talking bad about roger

NFL wouldve kept this in house if roger wanted

 

[Brownstone]

gruden likes men? or cause he got that dude carl nasir?

urban meyer should send gruden a nice gift

chucky got axed caused he talking bad about roger

NFL wouldve kept this in house if roger wanted

Just peeped this. You 10000% right on the Goodell point. I was referencing his public remarks about Nassir he made prior to the season. Proves what we already know, what these clowns say in public means

 

[LouBrickaSian]

Just peeped this. You 10000% right on the Goodell point. I was referencing his public remarks about Nassir he made prior to the season. Proves what we already know, what these clowns say in public means

100% but do u think cancel culture is going to make them change their minds?

now racist/homo/trans/etc phobes are gonna act/talk/text/email like everyone and we won't be able tell who is who

they will go underground and still make decisions that will make decisions that will effect our lives

with these little crumbs disguised "victories" sprinkled in like "nongender" bathrooms, but never the fair share

 

[Brownstone]

100% but do u think cancel culture is going to make them change their minds?

now racist/homo/trans/etc phobes are gonna act/talk/text/email like everyone and we won't be able tell who is who

they will go underground and still make decisions that will make decisions that will effect our lives

with these "little" victories sprinkled in like "nongender" bathrooms, but never the fair share

True but I would argue they already do this **** underground just like Gruden was. It came to light by your brilliant point because he mentioned Goddell by name (or out his name lol)

I usually think Wilbon from ESPN is typically right on these issues, but he missed the ball on PTI today. He gave the idk reaction to the Smith comment and then when pressed mentioned that everyone is prejudice routine. Will be interesting to hear his comments tomm.

 

[IATT]

True but I would argue they already do this **** underground just like Gruden was. It came to light by your brilliant point because he mentioned Goddell by name (or out his name lol)

I usually think Wilbon from ESPN is typically right on these issues, but he missed the ball on PTI today. He gave the idk reaction to the Smith comment and then when pressed mentioned that everyone is prejudice routine. Will be interesting to hear his comments tomm.

this probably came out to deflect from Dan snyder and/or so the raiders could get out of that contract

the investigation started because of stuff happening with Dan snyder and washington

 

[LouBrickaSian]

tread lightly around uncle roger

 

[Brownstone]

this probably came out to deflect from Dan snyder and/or so the raiders could get out of that contract

the investigation started because of stuff happening with Dan snyder and washington

Eh, think the Goodell reason carries more weight.

The investigation just ended a month or so ago. This is a pretty quick turnaround. NFL already made an owner sell a team for behavior (Carolina) Why wouldn't they make Snyder?

I wonder what won't get leaked because he caved?

 

[IATT]

Eh, think the Goodell reason carries more weight.

The investigation just ended a month or so ago. This is a pretty quick turnaround. NFL already made an owner sell a team for behavior (Carolina) Why wouldn't they make Snyder?

I wonder what won't get leaked because he caved?

that could still end up happening with snyder.. and considering the state of Washington football which was once one of the biggest teams, it probably does eventually

but the owners run the league, goodell is there to deflect for them.. he isn’t independent, he works for the league owners

 

[LouBrickaSian]

Washington football which was once one of the biggest teams

they've been bums for a very long time

 

[Brownstone]

that could still end up happening with snyder.. and considering the state of Washington football which was once one of the biggest teams, it probably does eventually

but the owners run the league, goodell is there to deflect for them.. he isn’t independent, he works for the league owners

Now I am confused. You think this was leaked to deflect from something Goodell wants to do anyway(Oust Snyder)? Or to get the Raiders out of a contract they begged Gruden to take? After the team was 3-1? (This leaked before Sundays game)

 

[IATT]

Now I am confused. You think this was leaked to deflect from something Goodell wants to do anyway(Oust Snyder)? Or to get the Raiders out of a contract they begged Gruden to take? After the team was 3-1? (This leaked before Sundays game)

the Raiders had some serious financial issues.. and some have said that’s the real reason they traded Khalil Mack, because they didn’t have the required cash on hand for a new deal

i think attempts were made for gruden to resign and walk away before any of it became public but according to profootballtalk gruden thought he could do damage control.. But the league was intent on getting him to resign or they would continue leaking information.. if gruden didn’t resign and raiders were forced to fire him, they have to go to court over the remaining contract




I assume something similar could go down with snyder, on top of the toxic stuff dude has been a terrible owner and bad for the league.. DC was huge for the league and Washington used to be one of the biggest teams in the 90s


to contrast, jerry Jones might be a terrible team owner but he’s good for the league.. Robert Kraft had his shh, but again he has been good for the league

 

[Methodical Management]

i kind of knew but

i didn't know meth was this passionate about trans citizens

i like the passion!

did u like any of part of the special or was it just all not ur speed?

When it comes to human rights, indifference is not neutral. If I were any less passionate about this than about other forms of systemic injustice, like racism or sexism, then I could not claim to believe in equality.

I have referenced and enjoyed much of Dave Chappelle's comedy over the years, but I believe that comedy is a powerful tool that ought to be used ethically. Dave has the shown the ability to do this as well as anyone, which makes his lapses especially disappointing.
He is better than this.

but I just its important we debate these things in a good faith way

So you called trans people a "super minority" and cited the author of "Hate Crime Hoax"?

I don't think either of those things are particularly "nuanced."

it doesn't mean that black LGBTQ people don't exist.

white LGBTQ people use black trans lives as a bloody shirt to enforce their preferred speech environment.

and want to wrap it in their desire to protect black and brown trans people. to stifle dissent

One of the many problems with the binary oppositional framework commonly applied by the media is that, as Melissa Gira Grant has noted, it centers coverage around the transgressor and aggregates all those harmed into a single class of "accusers" or "critics."

Rather than actually consider Raquel Willis or Jaclyn Moore's perspectives, it seems you want to shove them off to the side so you can tether this to your favorite targets. It's disrespectful.

Black trans people aren't involved in this conversation just because White people are using them as a human shield. Black trans people are involved for because they are trans people, and included among the group mocked in these routines. When trans people are publicly ridiculed, it is trans women of color, and especially Black trans women, who are disproportionately impacted. Their perspectives are essential.

Dave attempted to claim that his issue isn't really with trans people, but White supremacism. It's then worth asking if his material really only targets White people, which is just demonstrably untrue. He's told multiple jokes in The Closer alone mocking trans women's bodies and implying that trans people receive preferential treatment. He referred to himself as trans exclusionary. He did another variation on the joke he previously told about "Black dudes in Brooklyn" who "wear high heels to feel safe." This implies that Black LGBTQ Americans are treated better, and less subject to violence, than cishet Black Americans.

If there is a focus on violence against trans people, in the greater conversation around Dave's recent specials, it is because these types of jokes dismiss or downplay that violence.

I would again encourage you to read this:

Focusing on 'Dear White People' Showrunner Ignores Black Trans Women Who Will Suffer For Dave Chappelle’s Rhetoric | Essence

It’s no coincidence this is the conversation people opted to have instead of the one about transphobia. It’s much easier to focus on the oppression we experience rather than the oppression we inflict.

www.essence.com

Remove the White liberals from the equation and think about how your points resonate. You've arguably spent most of your time here challenging the extent to which trans people suffer.

So you think that Dave's special fomented and a previously non existent transphobia in the mind of some innocent NTer.

And where, exactly, did I say that? The word I used was "emboldened."
People were directly quoting the offensive content in the special and seizing the opportunity to make offensive claims in this thread like, say, that hate crimes against trans people are a hoax, violence against them is overstated, and they're coddled by society.

It's not a reach to suggest that the special and the offensive comments about the special made in the thread about the special might be related, but you'd apparently much rather discuss things nobody in here said, like this "straight line" to "skyrocketing murder rates."

Does it really require "mind reading" to see your preoccupation with White liberal clichés? You're ranting about "trigger warnings" and the term "unhoused people."
Do you still wonder why you might come across as an "anti-woke scold?"

For years and years the college educated intelligencia told us that trigger warnings were essential interventions to reduce harm against some marginalized people.

You seriously used ninjahood's misspelling of intelligentsia? We've really gotta get you out of the politics thread.

I actually think Methodical Management Methodical Management does an excellent job of this moderating this forum.
and balancing that.

Thank you for that, though all praise regarding our community moderation should really be addressed to the team as a whole. In a lot of ways, Internet moderation is like trying to fight the tide with a spoon.
It's hard to feel "successful" by any meaningful measure.

I do appreciate it whenever someone indicates that they find the experience better for our efforts.

I think if you just stop with the attempts at mockery, I think my disagreement is pretty nuanced.

I wish you'd apply that logic internally the next time you poke at something that is an abstract curiosity for you and a matter of personal safety for others.
I find it ironic that you can see mockery as counterproductive or even harmful when you believe it affects you, but mockery on a global scale as marketed by a massive corporation doesn't matter 1) unless it directly and irrefutably leads to death and 2) if it interferes with "art."

Your sudden distaste for mockery also clashes with your tendency to continually needle those whose positions are in any way reminiscent of or adjacent to those of the liberals you seemingly hold in greater disdain than the overt bigots you consistently manage to co-sign or defend.

That you dislike a stat nobody here used hardly justifies throwing a hand grenade into the room in the form of some "hate crimes are a hoax" take you failed to vet. THAT is acting in bad faith.


Your contempt for the performative activism of many White progressives is well-justified, but you react to that in knee-jerk ways that are, in some respects, indistinguishable from reactionary backlash. In this case, it led you to quite literally "signal boost" reactionary backlash.

Want to prove you're nothing like a performative activist? Follow through. That is doing what they won't do.
Playing contrarian on questions of basic human dignity is just cutting off your nose to spite your face.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

We can go round and round on this. I don't agree obviously.
I don't think the harm is what you say it is or what activists say it is.
and I don't think my disagreement is transphobia.

I think an artist can make a specific class criticism without having triangulate it within some intersectional matrix.

and my fixation on certain liberal clichés is not some free speech absolutist position as ive said countless times.
my problem is that its used to pivot from dealing with material concerns for marginalized people
and enforce a new speech culture that narrowly benefits college educated elites.

I think that's pretty different than the anti woke hucksters who want to use liberal speech excess to radicalize the public against do anything substantive or symbolic to help marginalized people.

I've been very clear about supporting like 99% of trans struggles. but because I stop at that last 1% "im playing contrarian with basic human dignity"

the bad people are always wrong because they are bad people

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Just to be clear because meth keeps lying about it.

The articles I posted do not argue that all hate crimes are hoaxes.

the article posted that argues the trans 35 year old life expectancy rate comes from a study in Latin America (a country with a much higher murder rate) and many US publications have been extrapolating this to divine the US murder rate.

And the second article argues that when you look into the lists of dead trans people many of the hate crimes listed among trans deaths are murders over financial disputes or people being murdered as sex workers who already face a very high murder rate.

im not denying that hate crimes exist, im saying that activist make claims and in order to not be a bigot you need to accept them uncritically. and it's used as a cudgel to stifle dissent.

Meth wants you to believe that because the writers are bad people, with bad politics their arguments must be incorrect.

Or that because I posted one argument I think has merit
I then must subscribe to every single argument that author has ever made.


I encourage people to decide for themselves.

 

[Present]

I come in peace.

“Netflix has a policy that content ‘designed to incite hate or violence’ is not allowed on the platform, but we all know that anti-LGBTQ content does exactly that,” the statement reads. “While Netflix is home to groundbreaking LGBTQ stories, now is the time for Netflix execs to listen to LGBTQ employees, industry leaders, and audiences and commit to living up to their own standards.”

Netflix’s Ted Sarandos Defends Dave Chappelle Special in Staff Memo: ‘Artistic Freedom’ Is Different for Stand-Up (EXCLUSIVE)

Netflix co-CEO Ted Sarandos has addressed staff members on the streamer's controversial new Dave Chappelle stand-up special, "The Closer."

variety.com

Has GLAAD been able to articulate exactly what they mean by this?

Ex: What part of the content was "designed to incite hate / violence"?

I don't mean what the members of Niketalk think.

I mean what specifically does GLAAD point to from the special where Dave Chappelle incites hate / violence upon them?

Ex: Kaepernick pointed out the actual words in our own National Anthem and the words in the Constitution reference present day slavery.

Granted I only watched the special once and searched Twitter for GLAADS statements so maybe I missed it.

I didn't see anything from GLAAD that pointed specifically to what they characterize as hate speech from the special.

Honestly I don't think anyone who didn't feel a way about transgender folks already were motivated to feel a way now because of Dave Chappelle.

I mean its not like he came out with a tiki-torch hollering "Transgenders will not replace us" and received a "both sides" salute from Biden.

 

[wr]

More about factions of power in Hollywood battling for supremacy.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Just to be clear because meth keeps lying about it.

The articles I posted do not argue that all hate crimes are hoaxes.

the article posted that argues the trans 35 year old life expectancy rate comes from a study in Latin America (a country with a much higher murder rate) and many US publications have been extrapolating this to divine the US murder rate.

And the second article argues that when you look into the lists of dead trans people many of the hate crimes listed among trans deaths are murders over financial disputes or people being murdered as sex workers who already face a very high murder rate.

im not denying that hate crimes exist, im saying that activist make claims and in order to not be a bigot you need to accept them uncritically. and it's used as a cudgel to stifle dissent.

Meth wants you to believe that because the writers are bad people, with bad politics their arguments must be incorrect.

Or that because I posted one argument I think has merit
I then must subscribe to every single argument that author has ever made.


I encourage people to decide for themselves.

Damn shame he is doing to you famb.

Not like you would ever, ever, try to pin the arguments of someone else on the person you are engaging with on NT. Yep, no way.

 

[1995]

Even with all the disagreements, It's nice that NT is now past the point of having one's own sexuality questioned for defending gay or trans people

This forum really has progressed a lot in the last 10 years and I'm happy about that

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Damn shame he is doing to you famb.

Not like you would ever, ever, try to pin the arguments of someone else on the person you are engaging with on NT. Yep, no way.

I agree the lying is pretty shameful.

but hey maybe the lying is working and he's changing minds
and the audience is learning the Dave is wrong and the special is irredeemably transphobic.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

or maybe not.

 

[LouBrickaSian]

Now I am confused. You think this was leaked to deflect from something Goodell wants to do anyway(Oust Snyder)? Or to get the Raiders out of a contract they begged Gruden to take? After the team was 3-1? (This leaked before Sundays game)

I agree the lying is pretty shameful.

but hey maybe the lying is working and he's changing minds
and the audience is learning the Dave is wrong and the special is irredeemably transphobic.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

or maybe not.

i never seen so much passion from meth

u and meth over trading novels about trans

with that said ur fighting a battle u can't win

 

[ogbobbyjohnson773]

who?

im Saeed Jones, Saeed Jones...