jpzx
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^ I remember there was like 8 pages of "
"s on NT after the Knicks made that pick.
Delete/Lock...Draft talk over in JPZ's thread....
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by doublejs07,
- Start date
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The best part was about 30 seconds after that pick was made, there was a graphic that showed the fans giving the pick an F
.
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The entire basketball world moaned when the Knicks picked Dario,
Dario isn't bad, but he's not a #8 pick. (The Knicks had the #8 pick last year too right?)
Dario isn't bad, but he's not a #8 pick. (The Knicks had the #8 pick last year too right?)
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Danillo*
And he isn't that bad. He's a really good shooter, not sure if he'll bring much else though. Gotta hope that back heals up, not a good sign tohave back problems at 20. I thought Eric Gordon would have been awesome in New York but whatevs
.
And he isn't that bad. He's a really good shooter, not sure if he'll bring much else though. Gotta hope that back heals up, not a good sign tohave back problems at 20. I thought Eric Gordon would have been awesome in New York but whatevs
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Danillo, sorry,
Yeah, there was so many more options for NYK, and Danillo is something they could have gotten late in the first.
Yeah, there was so many more options for NYK, and Danillo is something they could have gotten late in the first.
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Wait, what??? Danillo doesn't slip out of the lottery....Originally Posted by JapanAir21
Danillo, sorry,
Yeah, there was so many more options for NYK, and Danillo is something they could have gotten late in the first.
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he's got game, health is the only issue.
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No, he probably wouldn't, but a good shooter? That's not something you can only get in the lottery.Originally Posted by DoubleJs07
Wait, what??? Danillo doesn't slip out of the lottery....Originally Posted by JapanAir21
Danillo, sorry,
Yeah, there was so many more options for NYK, and Danillo is something they could have gotten late in the first.
Point is, they could have gotten a lot more with their pick. Just pointing out the obvious.
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I believe Gallinari was getting a hard look from Jersey at 10 and other lottery teams.
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I'm still shocked that the Nets got a steal with Brook @ 10.
I was a bit curious when I saw dude crying when he was getting shafted.
I honestly thought he'd be top five easy.
jpzx
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Jefferson and Lopez could've been great
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Originally Posted by JPZx
Jefferson and Lopez could've been great
Jefferson, Lopez, and Roy
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Dream and Sampson all over again.Originally Posted by JPZx
Jefferson and Lopez could've been great
Okay not quite, but still.
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he's more than a good shooter.
Brook wasn't much of a fit. He's a half court set guy.
Augustin, Gordon and Bayless woulda gone over better though, for sure. and may end up bein where we shoulda gone
Brook wasn't much of a fit. He's a half court set guy.
Augustin, Gordon and Bayless woulda gone over better though, for sure. and may end up bein where we shoulda gone
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I'm a bit surprised Anthony Randolph didn't get as much consideration to New York.
He seems like a good fit in D'Antoni's system and a versatile forward that Walsh likes (Harrington, Bender, Williams).
He seems like a good fit in D'Antoni's system and a versatile forward that Walsh likes (Harrington, Bender, Williams).
truthgetsbusy
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J
jawnstockton
Guest
n his twitter today, he said "Visiting Arco Arena...the facilities are tremendous! Medical examination, everything OK!!!! Supper with Paul Westphal, the new Coach. Everything great!!!." Now, we all know Arco Arena isn't tremendous right now.But, I'm pretty sure he will say that about every team he visits
Arco Arena itself is pretty lame, but the practice facility next to it is nice...that came from Maloof money haha
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he made Don Nelson open his eyes to rookies.
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what about a few years ago when they picked that Renaldo Balkman dude? LOL
then they were asking Spike Lee about it in the audience
then they were asking Spike Lee about it in the audience
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Originally Posted by JapanAir21
he made Don Nelson open his eyes to rookies.
in a couple years, GS is going to have a great trade chip to shop around if they decide to get rid of Randolph or Wright. Both are essentially the same player
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Originally Posted by JapanAir21
No, he probably wouldn't, but a good shooter? That's not something you can only get in the lottery.Originally Posted by DoubleJs07
Wait, what??? Danillo doesn't slip out of the lottery....Originally Posted by JapanAir21
Danillo, sorry,
Yeah, there was so many more options for NYK, and Danillo is something they could have gotten late in the first.
Point is, they could have gotten a lot more with their pick. Just pointing out the obvious.
What were these options you speak of dude?
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Every time I put up a new mock draft (Mock Draft 5.0 came outTuesday), I get a lot of feedback from readers who wonder how I put it together and how it differs from the Top 100.
This is how it works: Both pieces are reported pieces. In other words, I talk with NBA scouts and executives to get a sense of:
A. Which teams like which players (mock draft).
B. What the consensus is among all 30 NBA teams about who the best players in the draft are (Top 100).
I use the word "consensus" lightly. Often, even GMs and scouts employed by the same team can't agree on rankings of players.
"I fight with my scouts constantly," one prominent GM told me last year. "Everyone has their own ideas, their own preferences, their ownmethodology. There really is no consensus, and, I hate to say it, I'm not sure there's even any real right or wrong."
Obviously, both pieces are imperfect because the draft is an inexact science. NBA teams do more than watch prospects play games. They work out players, givethem psychological tests, do background checks and conduct personal interviews. All of this factors into the process and can change opinions.
Factor in the ranking wars with another age-old debate -- do you draft for need or for the best player available? -- and it's no surprise the draft canbe so volatile. Many teams take into account holes at certain positions (i.e., the team has no small forward) or coaching/system preferences (i.e., the Jazzdraft players who can fit into coach Jerry Sloan's system) when making their decisions.
To make sense of disparate rankings and debates over team needs, last year I chronicled a draft ranking system employed by several teams that have been verysuccessful in the draft, what I call a tier system. Instead of developing an exact order from one to 60 of the best players in the draft, these teams groupplayers, based on overall talent, into tiers. Then, the teams rank the players in each tier based on team need.
This system allows teams to draft not only the best player available, but also the player who best fits a team's individual needs.
So what do the tiers look like this year? After talking to several GMs and scouts whose teams employ this system, I put together these tiers. (Because theteams do not want to divulge their draft rankings publicly, the teams will remain anonymous.)
Players are listed alphabetically in each tier.
[h2]Tier 1[/h2]BlakeGriffin
Note: Not only is Griffin the consensus No. 1 pick in the draft, but he seems to be a mile ahead of the next prospect in the draft. This isthe first time we've had just one person in this, or any, tier.
[h2]Tier 2[/h2]JamesHarden
Ricky Rubio
Hasheem Thabeet
Note: Virtually every team I spoke with has these three players in the top five, regardless of team needs. A few teams argued Rubio shouldhave this tier all to himself and Thabeet and Harden should be in Tier 3, but the majority saw all three in this tier.
[h2]Tier 3[/h2]Stephen Curry
DeMar DeRozan
Tyreke Evans
Jonny Flynn
Jordan Hill
Jrue Holiday
Note: It was pretty easy to get consensus for Tier 3. Virtually every team I spoke with had all these players here. A few teams had Hill inTier 2, and two teams had BrandonJennings in this tier. But for the most part, this is pretty set and why a number of GMs say this draft really goes 10 deep. The Nets' Rod Thornobviously is hoping someone from Tier 4 will creep up and push someone from Tier 3 down.
[h2]Tier 4[/h2]DeJuan Blair
Earl Clark
Austin Daye
Tyler Hansbrough
Gerald Henderson
Brandon Jennings
James Johnson
Ty Lawson
Eric Maynor
B.J. Mullens
DaJuan Summers
Jeff Teague
Terrence Williams
Sam Young
Note: This is a huge tier and shows the parity in the draft. Theoretically, teams are saying you can get the same quality player at 11 thatyou will get at 24. This is where the real depth of the draft is. A few players like Blair, Clark, Hansbrough, Henderson, Jennings, Johnson, Teague andWilliams were unanimous selections. Summers was borderline between here and Tier 5.
[h2]Tier 5[/h2]Derrick Brown
Chase Budinger
DeMarre Carroll
Omri Casspi
Darren Collison
Toney Douglas
Wayne Ellington
Taj Gibson
Patrick Mills
Jeff Pendergraph
Note: This is what I would call the first-round bubble group and where the consensus really started to break down. A number of teams hadBudinger in Tier 4, but not quite enough for him to make the cut. Carroll, Gibson and Pendergraph were borderline picks here. Every one of these playersdropped out of the top 30 on at least one NBA team's draft board.
[h2]Tier 6[/h2]JonBrockman
Victor Claver
Nando De Colo
Danny Green
Jonas Jerebko
Jermaine Taylor
Marcus Thornton
Note: If you do the math, 41 players are on the list. Why 41 guys for 30 slots? I included in Tier 6 every playera team told me was in its top 30. All of these guys got one vote, with the exception of Jerebko, who had two.
So how does the tier system work?
A team ranks players in each tier according to team need. So, in Tier 3, if swingman is the biggest need, DeMar DeRozan is ranked No. 1. If power forward isthe biggest need, Jordan Hill is ranked No. 1.
Here's an example:
The rules are pretty simple. You always draft the highest-ranked player in a given tier. Also, you never take a player from a lower tier if one from ahigher tier is available. So, for example, if the Bobcats are drafting No. 12 (Tier 4 territory) and Jrue Holiday (a Tier 3 player) is on the board, they takehim regardless of position. If they have DeJuan Blair ranked No. 1 in Tier 4, they still take Holiday, even though power forward is a more pressing need.
This system protects teams from overreaching based on team need. The Bobcats won't pass on a clearly superior player like Holiday to fill a needwith Blair. However, the system also protects a team from passing on a player who fits a need just because he might be ranked one or two spots lower overall.
Let me give you an example from one of the the worst drafting teams over the past few years, the Atlanta Hawks. Former Hawks GM Billy Knight said every yearthat he would take the best player on the board, regardless of team need. He took Marvin Williams ahead of Chris Paul and Deron Williams in 2005, and SheldenWilliams ahead of a point guard such as Rajon Rondo in 2006.
A source formerly with Atlanta's front office told me that the Hawks had Marvin Williams ranked No. 1, Andrew Bogut ranked No. 2, Deron Williams rankedNo. 3 and Paul ranked No. 4 in 2005. So on draft night, Knight took Marvin Williams with the No. 2 pick after the Bucks selected Bogut No. 1 overall.
In a tier system, however, the source conceded that all four players, in his mind at least, would have been Tier 1 players -- in other words, the Hawksthought all four had equal long-term impact potential. If the Hawks had employed a tier system, they would have ranked inside the tier based on team need andfit, rather than just ranking the prospects from one to 30.
In that case, the Hawks likely would have ranked either Bogut (they needed a center) or Deron Williams (they still need a point guard) No. 1. MarvinWilliams actually would have been ranked No. 4 under that scenario.
Like every draft system, the tier system isn't perfect. But the teams that run it have found success with it. It has allowed them to get help throughthe draft without overreaching. Compared to traditional top-30 lists or mock drafts, it seems like a much more precise tool of gauging which players a teamshould draft.
Chad Ford covers the NBA for ESPNInsider
This is how it works: Both pieces are reported pieces. In other words, I talk with NBA scouts and executives to get a sense of:
A. Which teams like which players (mock draft).
B. What the consensus is among all 30 NBA teams about who the best players in the draft are (Top 100).
I use the word "consensus" lightly. Often, even GMs and scouts employed by the same team can't agree on rankings of players.
"I fight with my scouts constantly," one prominent GM told me last year. "Everyone has their own ideas, their own preferences, their ownmethodology. There really is no consensus, and, I hate to say it, I'm not sure there's even any real right or wrong."
Obviously, both pieces are imperfect because the draft is an inexact science. NBA teams do more than watch prospects play games. They work out players, givethem psychological tests, do background checks and conduct personal interviews. All of this factors into the process and can change opinions.
Factor in the ranking wars with another age-old debate -- do you draft for need or for the best player available? -- and it's no surprise the draft canbe so volatile. Many teams take into account holes at certain positions (i.e., the team has no small forward) or coaching/system preferences (i.e., the Jazzdraft players who can fit into coach Jerry Sloan's system) when making their decisions.
To make sense of disparate rankings and debates over team needs, last year I chronicled a draft ranking system employed by several teams that have been verysuccessful in the draft, what I call a tier system. Instead of developing an exact order from one to 60 of the best players in the draft, these teams groupplayers, based on overall talent, into tiers. Then, the teams rank the players in each tier based on team need.
This system allows teams to draft not only the best player available, but also the player who best fits a team's individual needs.
So what do the tiers look like this year? After talking to several GMs and scouts whose teams employ this system, I put together these tiers. (Because theteams do not want to divulge their draft rankings publicly, the teams will remain anonymous.)
Players are listed alphabetically in each tier.
[h2]Tier 1[/h2]BlakeGriffin
Note: Not only is Griffin the consensus No. 1 pick in the draft, but he seems to be a mile ahead of the next prospect in the draft. This isthe first time we've had just one person in this, or any, tier.
[h2]Tier 2[/h2]JamesHarden
Ricky Rubio
Hasheem Thabeet
Note: Virtually every team I spoke with has these three players in the top five, regardless of team needs. A few teams argued Rubio shouldhave this tier all to himself and Thabeet and Harden should be in Tier 3, but the majority saw all three in this tier.
[h2]Tier 3[/h2]Stephen Curry
DeMar DeRozan
Tyreke Evans
Jonny Flynn
Jordan Hill
Jrue Holiday
Note: It was pretty easy to get consensus for Tier 3. Virtually every team I spoke with had all these players here. A few teams had Hill inTier 2, and two teams had BrandonJennings in this tier. But for the most part, this is pretty set and why a number of GMs say this draft really goes 10 deep. The Nets' Rod Thornobviously is hoping someone from Tier 4 will creep up and push someone from Tier 3 down.
[h2]Tier 4[/h2]DeJuan Blair
Earl Clark
Austin Daye
Tyler Hansbrough
Gerald Henderson
Brandon Jennings
James Johnson
Ty Lawson
Eric Maynor
B.J. Mullens
DaJuan Summers
Jeff Teague
Terrence Williams
Sam Young
Note: This is a huge tier and shows the parity in the draft. Theoretically, teams are saying you can get the same quality player at 11 thatyou will get at 24. This is where the real depth of the draft is. A few players like Blair, Clark, Hansbrough, Henderson, Jennings, Johnson, Teague andWilliams were unanimous selections. Summers was borderline between here and Tier 5.
[h2]Tier 5[/h2]Derrick Brown
Chase Budinger
DeMarre Carroll
Omri Casspi
Darren Collison
Toney Douglas
Wayne Ellington
Taj Gibson
Patrick Mills
Jeff Pendergraph
Note: This is what I would call the first-round bubble group and where the consensus really started to break down. A number of teams hadBudinger in Tier 4, but not quite enough for him to make the cut. Carroll, Gibson and Pendergraph were borderline picks here. Every one of these playersdropped out of the top 30 on at least one NBA team's draft board.
[h2]Tier 6[/h2]JonBrockman
Victor Claver
Nando De Colo
Danny Green
Jonas Jerebko
Jermaine Taylor
Marcus Thornton
Note: If you do the math, 41 players are on the list. Why 41 guys for 30 slots? I included in Tier 6 every playera team told me was in its top 30. All of these guys got one vote, with the exception of Jerebko, who had two.
So how does the tier system work?
A team ranks players in each tier according to team need. So, in Tier 3, if swingman is the biggest need, DeMar DeRozan is ranked No. 1. If power forward isthe biggest need, Jordan Hill is ranked No. 1.
Here's an example:
| TEAM A Needs: 1. PG 2. SG 3. PF 4. C 5. SF Tier 3 1. Stephen Curry 2. Tyreke Evans 3. Jonny Flynn 4. Jrue Holiday 5. DeMar DeRozan 6. Jordan Hill |
| TEAM B Needs: 1. PF 2. SF 3. PG 4. C 5. SG Tier 3 1. Jordan Hill 2. DeMar DeRozan 3. Jonny Flynn 4. Stephen Curry 5. Jrue Holiday 6. Tyreke Evans |
| BOBCATS Team needs 1. PF 2. PG 3. SG Tier 3 5. Tyreke Evans 6. Jrue Holiday Tier 4 1. DeJuan Blair 2. Earl Clark 3. James Johnson 4. Tyler Hansbrough |
Let me give you an example from one of the the worst drafting teams over the past few years, the Atlanta Hawks. Former Hawks GM Billy Knight said every yearthat he would take the best player on the board, regardless of team need. He took Marvin Williams ahead of Chris Paul and Deron Williams in 2005, and SheldenWilliams ahead of a point guard such as Rajon Rondo in 2006.
A source formerly with Atlanta's front office told me that the Hawks had Marvin Williams ranked No. 1, Andrew Bogut ranked No. 2, Deron Williams rankedNo. 3 and Paul ranked No. 4 in 2005. So on draft night, Knight took Marvin Williams with the No. 2 pick after the Bucks selected Bogut No. 1 overall.
In a tier system, however, the source conceded that all four players, in his mind at least, would have been Tier 1 players -- in other words, the Hawksthought all four had equal long-term impact potential. If the Hawks had employed a tier system, they would have ranked inside the tier based on team need andfit, rather than just ranking the prospects from one to 30.
In that case, the Hawks likely would have ranked either Bogut (they needed a center) or Deron Williams (they still need a point guard) No. 1. MarvinWilliams actually would have been ranked No. 4 under that scenario.
Like every draft system, the tier system isn't perfect. But the teams that run it have found success with it. It has allowed them to get help throughthe draft without overreaching. Compared to traditional top-30 lists or mock drafts, it seems like a much more precise tool of gauging which players a teamshould draft.
Chad Ford covers the NBA for ESPNInsider
truthgetsbusy
Banned
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Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh
Originally Posted by JapanAir21
No, he probably wouldn't, but a good shooter? That's not something you can only get in the lottery.Originally Posted by DoubleJs07
Wait, what??? Danillo doesn't slip out of the lottery....Originally Posted by JapanAir21
Danillo, sorry,
Yeah, there was so many more options for NYK, and Danillo is something they could have gotten late in the first.
Point is, they could have gotten a lot more with their pick. Just pointing out the obvious.Becuase super coordinated 6'9 dudes who canrun the pointdribble,reboundshoot 3's andblock shotsplay soft grow on trees, the Knicks made anexcellenthorrible selection with Gallo. He fits their style of play and if he can mange to stay healthy will donumbersnothing.
What were these options you speak of dude?
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Originally Posted by TruthGetsBusy
Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh
Originally Posted by JapanAir21
No, he probably wouldn't, but a good shooter? That's not something you can only get in the lottery.Originally Posted by DoubleJs07
Wait, what??? Danillo doesn't slip out of the lottery....Originally Posted by JapanAir21
Danillo, sorry,
Yeah, there was so many more options for NYK, and Danillo is something they could have gotten late in the first.
Point is, they could have gotten a lot more with their pick. Just pointing out the obvious.Becuase super coordinated 6'9 dudes who canrun the pointdribble,reboundshoot 3's andblock shotsplay soft grow on trees, the Knicks made anexcellenthorrible selection with Gallo. He fits their style of play and if he can mange to stay healthy will donumbersnothing.
What were these options you speak of dude?
Gordon, Augustin, Bayless (who would have been an EXCELLENT fit), Brook Lopez, Anthony Randolph.
Just a few who were all projected lottery picks. I didn't know 2 rpg and .1 bpg qualify you as being a shotblocking, rebounding stud.
Not to mention his half-an assist per game.
He just doesn't seem like a playmaker to me. He'll hit an open shot sure, but he didn't show ME much last year, NYK fans may think differently, butdude wasn't healthy.
And if you're a ROOKIE and you're not healthy? That's not a good-sign.
He's not a bust, I'm not calling him that, but he's not what the doctor ordered.
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this is long, but very interesting. Ty Lawson shining AGAIN =)
http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Just-By-the-Numbers-This-Years-Point-Guard-Crop-3262
http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Just-By-the-Numbers-This-Years-Point-Guard-Crop-3262
