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co-sign...shoo magic was better than aLL of them combined
Eddie Johnson: "Kobe is the best offensive player ever."
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by bullsrepeat3peat,
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co-sign...shoo magic was better than aLL of them combined
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Kobe is definitely up there, but to say "THE GREATEST EVER," is just ridiculous......even I (who is a huge kobe fan since day one) cannot truly agreewith that...I mean come on man Kobe's career isn't even over lol
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Lol.
no, they're not equal. no, they're not pretty close.
lets be real.
only thing kobe got over mj = 3pt shooting and dribbling but more turnovers.
everything else mj > kobe.
someone close this thing.
no, they're not equal. no, they're not pretty close.
lets be real.
only thing kobe got over mj = 3pt shooting and dribbling but more turnovers.
everything else mj > kobe.
someone close this thing.
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Well this is certainly deserving of a thread...
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That's not true. Kobe is a way better creator with the ball in his hand. People forget Mike didn't have a lot of moves when it came to penetration.He was just more athletic than most of his competition. Kobe is also a way better passer. And Kobe can run the offense more efficiently from a point forwardrole..Kobe also has better footwork than Mike(thus allowing him to be a better creator). And you also have to realize with the zone defenses in the league itmakes it harder for the guards to penetrate. People love to bring up MJ's 50% fg pt, but in his time...it was easier for him to get to the basket beingmore athletic than his comp...Then again, Kobe takes a lot of poor shots so that also explains his poor FG% numbers..
xtapolapacetl
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Kobe is a way better creator with the ball in his hand. People forget Mike didn't have a lot of moves when it came to penetration. He was just more athletic than most of his competition. Kobe is also a way better passer. And Kobe can run the offense more efficiently from a point forward role..
Wow, just wow.. Esepcially at the "WAY better" comments. Didn't have a lot of moves??I refuse to believe?that any human being whohas watched a 1 minute worth of highligts?of MJ would be serious when saying that so are you being sarcastic, or are you just trying to provoke a reaction withthis statement??Eitherway:?A "way better passer"? Canrun the offense better? If you knew anything about Michael Jordan, you would know that he played a lot of point guard in 88-89 and had a triple double aftertriple double. Kobe can't run an offense nowhere near as good as MJ. Anyway, both are scoring SGs so running an offense and that's what they should bemeasured on, when running an offense is what neither of the two does best.
ai bundy
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It's not farfetched. Kobe is a better outside shooter and has more range than MJ. When it's all said and done his name is gonna be up there in thescoring records.
ai bundy
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Xtapolapacetl wrote:
Kobe is a way better creator with the ball in his hand. People forget Mike didn't have a lot of moves when it came to penetration. He was just more athletic than most of his competition. Kobe is also a way better passer. And Kobe can run the offense more efficiently from a point forward role..
Wow, just wow.. Esepcially at the "WAY better" comments. Didn't have a lot of moves??I refuse to believe?that any human being who has watched a 1 minute worth of highligts?of MJ would be serious when saying that so are you being sarcastic, or are you just trying to provoke a reaction with this statement??Eitherway:?A "way better passer"? Can run the offense better? If you knew anything about Michael Jordan, you would know that he played a lot of point guard in 88-89 and had a triple double after triple double. Kobe can't run an offense nowhere near as good as MJ. Anyway, both are scoring SGs so running an offense and that's what they should be measured on, when running an offense is what neither of the two does best.
People love to bring up MJ's 50% fg pt, but in his time...it was easier for him to get to the basket being more athletic than his comp...
"In his time", people were allowed to play defense and there were centers who could actually block shots waiting for him near the basket. I'm sick of this "offensively" crap, that is trying to say that Kobe Bryant is better offensively, but that MJ was a better overall player when in fact both claims are almost equally untrue. Michael Jordan led the league in scoring ten times. TEN! His consistency is just amazing. Only once in his Bulls uniform had he scored under double digits - this was in his second season when he scored 8. That means he has over 1.000 straight games where he scored in double digits. You don't need to go more than a few weeks back to find a single digit scoring game by Kobe (when he scored 6 in 40 minutes). But this is just the regular season. Their playoff scoring is not even close. I know Kobe came out of highschool and comparing their career ppg averages wouldn't be fair, but even if you removed Kobe's first three playoff performances, his ppg average still doesn't come close to MJ's juggernaut 33.4 ppg playoff average over 179 games - the highest ppg average in playoff history. Wilt's career playoffs ppg: 22.5, Bird's = 23.8, Kareem's = 24.3, Shaq's = 25.5, Hakeem's 25.9. Once again, Jordan's = 33.4! And if it's not close in the playoffs, it's even less close in the finals. MJ averaged 40+ points in the 93 finals, and his worst performance in the 6 NBA finals he's played in is better than the best finals Kobe has had of the 4 times he's been in the finals. Go watch the 2004 finals if you want to see the proof of who is better. MJ would never allow that to himself.
I swear, trying to talk some sense into you people is like trying to convince a devout cult member that that cult is a bunch os @@!% and asking them to leave that cult. But you have your minds made up,immune to all rational arguments that say Kobe is not the greatest,fully converted to the cult of Kobe until the day you die. My last attempt will be to post this video, please take 5 minutes of your life to see it and try to grow a brain in your head in the process:
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�I almost feel sorry for the person that would even waste thetime editing a video like that.� Some people take sports way too personally
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Wow, just wow.. Esepcially at the "WAY better" comments. Didn't have a lot of moves??I refuse to believe?that any human being who has watched a 1 minute worth of highligts?of MJ would be serious when saying that so are you being sarcastic, or are you just trying to provoke a reaction with this statement??Eitherway:
People love to bring up MJ's 50% fg pt, but in his time...it was easier for him to get to the basket being more athletic than his comp...
"In his time", people were allowed to play defense and there were centers who could actually block shots waiting for him near the basket. I'm sick of this "offensively" crap, that is trying to say that Kobe Bryant is better offensively, but that MJ was a better overall player when in fact both claims are almost equally untrue. Michael Jordan led the league in scoring ten times. TEN! His consistency is just amazing. Only once in his Bulls uniform had he scored under double digits - this was in his second season when he scored 8. That means he has over 1.000 straight games where he scored in double digits. You don't need to go more than a few weeks back to find a single digit scoring game by Kobe (when he scored 6 in 40 minutes). But this is just the regular season. Their playoff scoring is not even close. I know Kobe came out of highschool and comparing their career ppg averages wouldn't be fair, but even if you removed Kobe's first three playoff performances, his ppg average still doesn't come close to MJ's juggernaut 33.4 ppg playoff average over 179 games - the highest ppg average in playoff history. Wilt's career playoffs ppg: 22.5, Bird's = 23.8, Kareem's = 24.3, Shaq's = 25.5, Hakeem's 25.9. Once again, Jordan's = 33.4! And if it's not close in the playoffs, it's even less close in the finals. MJ averaged 40+ points in the 93 finals, and his worst performance in the 6 NBA finals he's played in is better than the best finals Kobe has had of the 4 times he's been in the finals. Go watch the 2004 finals if you want to see the proof of who is better. MJ would never allow that to himself.
I swear, trying to talk some sense into you people is like trying to convince a devout cult member that that cult is a bunch os @@!% and asking them to leave that cult. But you have your minds made up,immune to all rational arguments that say Kobe is not the greatest,fully converted to the cult of Kobe until the day you die. My last attempt will be to post this video, please take 5 minutes of your life to see it and try to grow a brain in your head in the process:
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First of all, calm the hell down. You just way too hype. I didn't even say Kobe was better than Mike. I could really care less...honestly. People aregoing to differ on opinions. I just pointed out certain things Kobe does better. I don't need to watch a video you posted. I've been watching Mikesince 90 and been watching Kobe before most of you knew who he was. Yeah, them Lower Merion days...
1. Your stoneface means $%$*. Kobe is a way bettercreator with the ball in his hand. Footwork, handles, spinning and control, he's just better than Jordan. You couldn't post a logical sentence torefute that, so you take the whiny child route and post a stoneface.. One thing Jordan has over Kobe is his first step. He blew past alot of defenders just offhis first step when it comes to penetration, but as far as crossovers(well he got Russel...wait it was a push), handles, etc..he's not seeing Kobe.Next....
2. Who cares if running an offense is not what either of the two do best. Kobe does it better than Mike does it. Mike was never a great distributor . I'msorry...Kobe is better at creating shots for his teammates. He's also a better passer.
3. Why are you so mad?I never said Kobe is better or Mike is better.I'll take it upon myself to refute those weak points of yours. In his time, there weren't many players as athletically gifted and we didn't seezone defenses. It was pretty easy for Jordan to blow past his defender with penetration. Damn you love stats.What are all those numbers going to prove? Wow, Mike led the league in scoring10 times. That's great! Try winning a scoring title with Shaq, T-Mac, Lebron, AI, and Kobe in the L. As Scottie Pippen said, these players would have madeJordan look human. And you're wrong about the 1,000 game of over double digit. It's something like 800+ Still Impressive however, but it doesn'tchange the fact that you can't argue the points based on gameplay. Wilt's numbers blow Jordan's out of the water, some will still say MJ is better. It's a matter of opinion. You need a break from sports son.Opinions are not factual and they can't be wrong or right. Everyone has different standards...
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I just watched the video and.....
This dude is a numbers cruncher trying to talk about basketball. *****...
This dude is a numbers cruncher trying to talk about basketball. *****...
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As is 75% of the NT Sports forum
xtapolapacetl
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Originally Posted by jmoneybaggz
First of all, calm the hell down. You just way too hype. I didn't even say Kobe was better than Mike. I could really care less...honestly. People are going to differ on opinions. I just pointed out certain things Kobe does better. I don't need to watch a video you posted. I've been watching Mike since 90 and been watching Kobe before most of you knew who he was. Yeah, them Lower Merion days...
1. Your stoneface means $%$*. Kobe is a way better creator with the ball in his hand. Footwork, handles, spinning and control, he's just better than Jordan. You couldn't post a logical sentence to refute that, so you take the whiny child route and post a stoneface.. One thing Jordan has over Kobe is his first step. He blew past alot of defenders just off his first step when it comes to penetration, but as far as crossovers(well he got Russel...wait it was a push), handles, etc..he's not seeing Kobe. Next....
2. Who cares if running an offense is not what either of the two do best. Kobe does it better than Mike does it. Mike was never a great distributor . I'm sorry...Kobe is better at creating shots for his teammates. He's also a better passer.
3. Why are you so mad?I never said Kobe is better or Mike is better. I'll take it upon myself to refute those weak points of yours. In his time, there weren't many players as athletically gifted and we didn't see zone defenses. It was pretty easy for Jordan to blow past his defender with penetration. Damn you love stats.What are all those numbers going to prove? Wow, Mike led the league in scoring 10 times. That's great! Try winning a scoring title with Shaq, T-Mac, Lebron, AI, and Kobe in the L. As Scottie Pippen said, these players would have made Jordan look human. And you're wrong about the 1,000 game of over double digit. It's something like 800+ Still Impressive however, but it doesn't change the fact that you can't argue the points based on gameplay. Wilt's numbers blow Jordan's out of the water, some will still say MJ is better. It's a matter of opinion. You need a break from sports son.Opinions are not factual and they can't be wrong or right. Everyone has different standards...
I'm mad? You wish. Maybe if you had any facts whatsoever to prove your points, but right now, i just laugh. And now you say that you never said thatKobe was better, but you might want to check what you wrote in your first post, that Kobe was "way" better at several things which are flat out nottrue. Your argument against my stoneface is great considering the posting of your way more mature rolling laughing emoticons. We can talk stats, we can talkwins, we can talk honors, we can talk career achievements - whatever you want - Mike has him beat. Yet the only thing you cling on to is your weak-@!*arguments that can't be backed up by any facts whatsoever such as better footwork, more moves and other crap that can be discussed but never really proven.And if you watched MJ, you would learn that Kobe is not better at any one of these non-provable aspects of offense, except 3 point shooting. You even have theguts to say that he was a better passer, in fact a "way" better passer, ready to call me a stat maniac if I were to mention their assist numbers.Also you might want to check your facts there, Mike has 4 scoring titles in the years when Shaq was in the league - 3 of them came after 94-95 (the season Shaqled the league in scoring, he was also second in 93-94 BTW). On the other hand, let's see Kobe win some scoring titles next to MJ, Karl Malone, Larry Bird,Dominique, David Robinson and Olajuwon... and let's see Kobe drive to the basket with Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, prime Mutombo, young Shaq and Bill Laimbeerwaiting for him to end his career with an injury. When Kobe played against the two Wallaces in the 04 finals, the only frontline that could be compareddefensively to the froncourts of MJ's days, he sucked and averaged 22 points on 38% shooting with a billion turnovers that series. Oh wait, those are juststats, who can argue against Kobe's footwork and body control that series.
Had prime Mike played in 1999-00 and after, the sky would be the limit for his scoring average. Offense-friendly rules were introduced and individual scoringwent up for every star player. Your arguments are so weak, it's laughable - Mentioning all kinds of stuff that can't be proven, but if anyone mentionsanything statistical for you, you call them a number cruncher and post laughing emoticons. Class A strategy! Like I said, we can talk about other stuff thanstats: winning, individual honors..
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Originally Posted by Xtapolapacetl
Originally Posted by jmoneybaggz
First of all, calm the hell down. You just way too hype. I didn't even say Kobe was better than Mike. I could really care less...honestly. People are going to differ on opinions. I just pointed out certain things Kobe does better. I don't need to watch a video you posted. I've been watching Mike since 90 and been watching Kobe before most of you knew who he was. Yeah, them Lower Merion days...
1. Your stoneface means $%$*. Kobe is a way better creator with the ball in his hand. Footwork, handles, spinning and control, he's just better than Jordan. You couldn't post a logical sentence to refute that, so you take the whiny child route and post a stoneface.. One thing Jordan has over Kobe is his first step. He blew past alot of defenders just off his first step when it comes to penetration, but as far as crossovers(well he got Russel...wait it was a push), handles, etc..he's not seeing Kobe. Next....
2. Who cares if running an offense is not what either of the two do best. Kobe does it better than Mike does it. Mike was never a great distributor . I'm sorry...Kobe is better at creating shots for his teammates. He's also a better passer.
3. Why are you so mad?I never said Kobe is better or Mike is better. I'll take it upon myself to refute those weak points of yours. In his time, there weren't many players as athletically gifted and we didn't see zone defenses. It was pretty easy for Jordan to blow past his defender with penetration. Damn you love stats.What are all those numbers going to prove? Wow, Mike led the league in scoring 10 times. That's great! Try winning a scoring title with Shaq, T-Mac, Lebron, AI, and Kobe in the L. As Scottie Pippen said, these players would have made Jordan look human. And you're wrong about the 1,000 game of over double digit. It's something like 800+ Still Impressive however, but it doesn't change the fact that you can't argue the points based on gameplay. Wilt's numbers blow Jordan's out of the water, some will still say MJ is better. It's a matter of opinion. You need a break from sports son.Opinions are not factual and they can't be wrong or right. Everyone has different standards...
Mentioning all kinds of stuff that can't be proven
Exactly you stat geek.
And now you say that you never said that Kobe was better, but you might want to check what you wrote in your first post, that Kobe was "way" better at several things which are flat out not true.
I swear you need a break from sports.. I said Kobe was better at several things. I didn't give either the overall edge so what's yourpoint? Matter of fact, don't answer. Stop reaching... Son leave me alone. You give me a headache..
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i don't understand why people try to refute a statement like the one dude made. kobe IS the best offensive ball player that has even played the moderngame. hands down!
he may not have the same structure as other champs who've had more overall TEAM success than kobe, but as an individual offensive force in the league, kobehas way surpassed jordan or any other player in terms of ball skills, handling and explosiveness
it's ok. let jordan and others be who they are. no one's trying to re-write history here. nothing changes their accomplishments and this surelydoesn't encroach on their successes with their teams or as individuals, but to just shoot down the notion that kobe bryant isn't worthy of such greatadmiration or accolade is simply sour grapes from dudes who will forever be jocking their man-crushes. you all know that's what some of you sound like too.
he may not have the same structure as other champs who've had more overall TEAM success than kobe, but as an individual offensive force in the league, kobehas way surpassed jordan or any other player in terms of ball skills, handling and explosiveness
it's ok. let jordan and others be who they are. no one's trying to re-write history here. nothing changes their accomplishments and this surelydoesn't encroach on their successes with their teams or as individuals, but to just shoot down the notion that kobe bryant isn't worthy of such greatadmiration or accolade is simply sour grapes from dudes who will forever be jocking their man-crushes. you all know that's what some of you sound like too.
ai bundy
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Kobe's career averages are skewed because he came into the league at 18. Ripping his career averages is a piss poor argument and proves nothing. Guy wascoming off the bench as a teenager averaging like 7 points a game, of course his averages are gonna appear low.
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I swear man.....
MJ stans are the biggest $#%+ riders on the face of the earth....+@%! is sickening.....
Im gonna take the opinion of NBA Players and Coaches over any of y'all.....24/7/365
MJ is NOT the be all end all of basketball....
Rings don't have +%*% to do with Kobe being a better offensive player than MJ....
I mean......He's arguably the GOAT and all.....But y'all overrate him like $*!%.....
This +@%! is getting real old man.....
MJ stans are the biggest $#%+ riders on the face of the earth....+@%! is sickening.....
Im gonna take the opinion of NBA Players and Coaches over any of y'all.....24/7/365
MJ is NOT the be all end all of basketball....
Rings don't have +%*% to do with Kobe being a better offensive player than MJ....
I mean......He's arguably the GOAT and all.....But y'all overrate him like $*!%.....
This +@%! is getting real old man.....
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where' s the love for iverson
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Yeah lock this up...
Xtapolapacetl hate for kobe is so strong.
Xtapolapacetl hate for kobe is so strong.
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LOL any time someone doesn't think Kobe is the greatest their hating LOL.
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Wow...Great comment.
If you knew any better you would know that Xtapolapacetl hates kobe bryant. He is a big fan of lebron. There is nothing wrong with that. But anytime somebodysays something about kobe being better then jordan in any way he gets bent out of shape.
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Originally Posted by dreClark
I swear man.....
MJ stans are the biggest $#%+ riders on the face of the earth....+@%! is sickening.....
Im gonna take the opinion of NBA Players and Coaches over any of y'all.....24/7/365
MJ is NOT the be all end all of basketball....
Rings don't have +%*% to do with Kobe being a better offensive player than MJ....
I mean......He's arguably the GOAT and all.....But y'all overrate him like $*!%.....
This +@%! is getting real old man.....
Truth
xtapolapacetl
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I suppose I should agree with people who say that Kobe is better than Jordan, huh?
That's just great. In a thread that is about Kobe being better than friggin Michael Jordan, the guy who doesn't think that Kobe is better than Jordanends up looking like a Kobe hater to most of the people replying in the thread, rather than what actually is the case considering the fact that Kobe hasnothing on Michael stat-wise, winning-wise and individual award-wise: That you are in fact Jordan haters. That just shows the extent of Kobe extremism onNiketalk.
And no matter how big of a LeBron fan I am, I will never be as bad as Kobe fans because I will never say something as idiotic like that LeBron is better thanMichael Jordan.