EDIT: New Question, is LeBron the second greatest player of all time? So, has Steph Curry overtaken

[wavycrocket]

Curry is 27 and a two time MVP, bron and Kobe weren't there first go around in the finals

Bron was a 2x MVP in 2011...with a LOADED SQUAD against a Dallas team with Dirk being the only star.

You remember what Bron did in the 2011 Finals right. You do remember?

 

[Proposition Joe]

Bron was a 2x MVP in 2011...with a LOADED SQUAD against a Dallas team with Dirk being the only star.

You remember what Bron did in the 2011 Finals right. You do remember?

Yep, him and wade both choked, they kept trying to play one on one, bron melted under pressure and got exposed for not having any post moves.

 

[HIM]

I asked for numbers and got nothing


I'm not even arguing either way. I would just like to know what numbers you guys are using to grade defense. I saw a few posts saying "the numbers back this up." Which numbers?

How about numbers and video? Coach Nick took it to the extreme with "elite defense"...but these videos and numbers should give you a good picture.

I don't need you to prove me wrong or anyrhing. I'm literally just asking what metrics people are using to grade defense so I can use them

And I was speaking moreso in regards to Mamba and other people who called LeBron a bad defender and said numbers backed it up.

I can't watch these videos at the moment, but what metrics is he using?

 

[Proposition Joe]

This is so beautiful

lebron mutombo was out there taking souls

 

[wavycrocket]

Yep, him and wade both choked, they kept trying to play one on one, bron melted under pressure and got exposed for not having any post moves.

Wade played with heart. Bron didn't in 2011.

Let's kill this theme that Great players don't underperform on the biggest stage...because some of the absolute greatest have sht the bed

 

[thegrandpuba26]

SO, HAS STEPH CURRY OVERTAKEN LEBRON AS THE BEST BASKETBALL PLAYER IN THE WORLD?

 

[shoeking2102]

I don't need you to prove me wrong or anyrhing. I'm literally just asking what metrics people are using to grade defense so I can use them

And I was speaking moreso in regards to Mamba and other people who called LeBron a bad defender and said numbers backed it up.

I can't watch these videos at the moment, but what metrics is he using?

One number in particular I remember is Bron's defensive rtg, which was on par with kevin love at points this season.

Defensive rtg is a hard sell though

 

[HIM]

Was able to watch the first vid. Thanks Wavy.

Unfotunately the only metric he provided was the one I already use. I remember someone on reddit breaking down statistically why LeBron was a better (or at the very least equal) defender than Kawhi and the numbers all supported it. That's when I knew I had to find some new metrics

I was hoping y'all were gonna put me on to some new ****


-Edit-

I also remember shoeking and I trying to tell people Austin is actully a good defender and then JD or someone hit us with a bunch of stats that said otherwise I guess defense is still the one thing you truly need to trust the eyetest with.

 

[dland24]

Was able to watch the first vid. Thanks Wavy.

Unfotunately the only metric he provided was the one I already use. I remember someone on reddit breaking down statistically why LeBron was a better (or at the very least equal) defender than Kawhi and the numbers all supported it. That's when I knew I had to find some new metrics

I was hoping y'all were gonna put me on to some new ****

Not to get off topic here...but you brought his name up.  

Kawhi has become one of if not the most overrated player in basketball.  And it STARTS with his defense.  People claim he is this all world defender who can guard all 5 positions.  STOP IT.  He was guarding the #3 and #4 options THE ENTIRE Spurs Thunder series.  

But back to your point, I have no doubt that numbers supported Bron being equal or better than Kawhi defensively.  No problem believing that whatsoever.  Because the numbers dont support Kawhi being the DPOY.  Not this year.  Not last year either.

 

[Proposition Joe]

Kawhi is definitely overrated and a media darling, I remember when Barkley said he was the best player in the league

That stuff hurt me to hear as a Spurs fan because I don't want him to believe the hype. Hopefully he's working on them handles right now

 

[HIM]

Can we make a separate thread for the best defensive player in the nba? I really wanna have the discussion cuz the defense I've seen Iggy play the last couple years is something else. We all know Draymond is great but that boy Iggy ks a savage. From CP3, to KD, to Bron...that strip move he does while you're going up for your shot is my favorite defensive play. I tried to do that at the park and stayed slapping people on the forearm/wrists

 

[wavycrocket]

Kawhi is definitely overrated and a media darling, I remember when Barkley said he was the best player in the league

That stuff hurt me to hear as a Spurs fan because I don't want him to believe the hype. Hopefully he's working on them handles right now

Kawhi ain't overrated....ain't too many guys that can average 22/7 on 50/40/90 and play elite defense on a 67 win team.

He is a media darling though...and part of these outlandish statements like "he's the best player in the league" are from contrarians...and to generate discussion. Kawhi is in the 5-10 range of players in this league.

His defense isn't overrated at all. I've seen this man fold Bron and KD.

 

[dland24]

 

Kawhi is definitely overrated and a media darling, I remember when Barkley said he was the best player in the league

That stuff hurt me to hear as a Spurs fan because I don't want him to believe the hype. Hopefully he's working on them handles right now

Kawhi ain't overrated....ain't too many guys that can average 22/7 on 50/40/90 and play elite defense on a 67 win team.

He is a media darling though...and part of these outlandish statements like "he's the best player in the league" are from contrarians...and to generate discussion. Kawhi is in the 5-10 range of players in this league.

His defense isn't overrated at all. I've seen this man fold Bron and KD.

You sure didnt see it in the playoffs this year.....when he was guarding Dion Waiters and Andre Roberson basically the entire series.

 

[a55a5in11]

Was able to watch the first vid. Thanks Wavy.


Unfotunately the only metric he provided was the one I already use. I remember someone on reddit breaking down statistically why LeBron was a better (or at the very least equal) defender than Kawhi and the numbers all supported it. That's when I knew I had to find some new metrics


I was hoping y'all were gonna put me on to some new ****

Not to get off topic here...but you brought his name up.  

Kawhi has become one of if not the most overrated player in basketball.  And it STARTS with his defense.  People claim he is this all world defender who can guard all 5 positions.  STOP IT.  He was guarding the #3 and #4 options THE ENTIRE Spurs Thunder series.  

But back to your point, I have no doubt that numbers supported Bron being equal or better than Kawhi defensively.  No problem believing that whatsoever.  Because the numbers dont support Kawhi being the DPOY.  Not this year.  Not last year either.

Do you feel the same about Draymond?

 

[dland24]

 

 

Was able to watch the first vid. Thanks Wavy.


Unfotunately the only metric he provided was the one I already use. I remember someone on reddit breaking down statistically why LeBron was a better (or at the very least equal) defender than Kawhi and the numbers all supported it. That's when I knew I had to find some new metrics

I was hoping y'all were gonna put me on to some new ****

Not to get off topic here...but you brought his name up.  

Kawhi has become one of if not the most overrated player in basketball.  And it STARTS with his defense.  People claim he is this all world defender who can guard all 5 positions.  STOP IT.  He was guarding the #3 and #4 options THE ENTIRE Spurs Thunder series.  

But back to your point, I have no doubt that numbers supported Bron being equal or better than Kawhi defensively.  No problem believing that whatsoever.  Because the numbers dont support Kawhi being the DPOY.  Not this year.  Not last year either.

Do you feel the same about Draymond?

Draymond's defensive statistics have been better than Kawhi's for the past 2 seasons.  

 

[slick vitale]

Fact. If ppl use that logic to say Kawhi is overrated you have to do the same for Draymond. 

Both players maxed out their ability in their very specific roles, and if they didn't their great teams would merely be good teams. Are they the stereotypical stars that you can put on any team and get major numbers from? Probably not. But they don't choose who they play for. 

 

[dland24]

 
Fact. If ppl use that logic to say Kawhi is overrated you have to do the same for Draymond. 

Both players maxed out their ability in their very specific roles, and if they didn't their great teams would merely be good teams. Are they the stereotypical stars that you can put on any team and get major numbers from? Probably not. But they don't choose who they play for. 

People dont consider Draymond to be a top 3 player in the league, so I dont see how you would have use the same logic for him as you do for Kawhi.

 

[wavycrocket]

Draymond's defensive statistics have been better than Kawhi's for the past 2 seasons.  

I thought Draymond should've gotten it last year.

Kawhi deserved it this year though.

 

[a55a5in11]

 
Fact. If ppl use that logic to say Kawhi is overrated you have to do the same for Draymond. 

Both players maxed out their ability in their very specific roles, and if they didn't their great teams would merely be good teams. Are they the stereotypical stars that you can put on any team and get major numbers from? Probably not. But they don't choose who they play for. 

People dont consider Draymond to be a top 3 player in the league, so I dont see how you would have use the same logic for him as you do for Kawhi.

people consider Draymond a top 10 player though
Not to mention Kawhi is better than Draymond offensively

 

[oldhotdogwater]

people consider Draymond a top 10 player though

Not to mention Kawhi is better than Draymond offensively

Draymond is a great role player

 

[oldhotdogwater]

Bron was a 2x MVP in 2011...with a LOADED SQUAD against a Dallas team with Dirk being the only star.

You remember what Bron did in the 2011 Finals right. You do remember?

Loaded?

That team was only LBJ, Wade and Bosh. Be serious.

That Mav team was a better TEAM.  Like 6 all stars on the squad.

 

[dland24]

That team was ONLY Bron, Bosh and Wade.  Only.  Only 3 Hall of Famers in their primes.  No biggie. 

 

[Proposition Joe]

yea that TEAM was so great that brorn led all of them in points, assist, rebounds and assist in every finals appearance

 

[MVP]

Yep, him and wade both choked, they kept trying to play one on one, bron melted under pressure and got exposed for not having any post moves.

Lol Wade was a beast that series Bron kept going Casper in the 4th quarters of every game.

 

[Proposition Joe]

Lol Wade was a beast that series Bron kept going Casper in the 4th quarters of every game.

yep bron had a horrible series but....

bron is better than kobe in the finals in every category, including FG%