ESPN chooses their Top 10 Greatest Shooting Guards of all time

[rj240z]

Isn't it amazing that MJ got 1st place votes from all twenty voters? Best case scenario for Kobe in the next 5 years, he adds one or two more titles, MVP,and Finals MVP, fastest to 30000 pts. Even that will not be enough to get to #1. But he sure will have a lock on the #2 spot. I think AI should be higherthan Iceman. I definitely think that Mitch was better than any sg from the 90s not named Jordan - better than Dumars, Miller, Drexler. He deserves more thana one vote in this whole list. Wade should be top ten when all is said and done.

 

[boutmymoney333]

Originally Posted by presequel

Originally Posted by SHUGES

Originally Posted by WstCoastGotti

west was cleary the best sg in his era, not really the case with kobe

I dont even like KB24 that much and this statement is just dumb. Kobe is clearly the best of this decade from the 2 spot... that aint debatable brutha.

Actually, T-Mac for at least 3-4 years was looked at as superior to (or equal to) 24. Hard as it is for some of you to believe that.

AI also won an MVP award in this decade and a few scoring championships.

So no way in hell would I say that Snake is "clearly the best from this decade at the 2 spot".

NO WAY.

Well, one way to look at it is that Kobe has been in arguments of who is the best 2 guard in the game for the whole decade. He's been compared vs

AI
Vince Carter
Tmac
Ray Allen
Wade
Now, with the decade tailing off, and all of the above not in the same discussion as Kobe (tmac has come back this year, but he'll have to prove to doubters he can stay healthy) then it shows that Kobe has been a constant, while others may have been slightly better for a small period of time, but over the long term, Kobe stayed at the top while the others dropped down a bit.

So if we're talking about greatness for a full decade, I think Kobe overall has done it each year, always at the top. All the others have dropped down, and possibly peaked too high at one year.

Now the only player who can really be mentioned is Lebron, but he's not really a sg.


A.I. hasn't dropped down a bit. He still competing at the same level as he was back in 2001. He has just let go some of his offense so Melo can gethis.

 

[xcautionx]

MJ>>>>>>Kobe all day everyday....

 

[wstcoastgotti]

Actually, T-Mac for at least 3-4 years was looked at as superior to (or equal to) 24. Hard as it is for some of you to believe that.

AI also won an MVP award in this decade and a few scoring championships.

So no way in hell would I say that Snake is "clearly the best from this decade at the 2 spot".

NO WAY.
Well... you did prove to me that this matter was debatable

Presequel said what i came into say anyways... kobe has been at the top this entire decade.

I got mad love for AI and TMac also, so i dont mind you defending those dudes... all good in my book

 

[scottsauce88]

Italics: So are you saying that T-Mac has been in a "constant decline"? Or is it because he actually finally had a guy on his team who he could let take some of the scoring load from himself in Yao Ming??

To deny that Tracy McGrady was neck and neck with 24 from say 01 through 05 is absurd. Back to back scoring champ not in the conversation?
so Tmac isnt declining? He is still playing the same ball as he was in 02-03? Im not deny that Tmac was close to Kobe for about a 3-4 year span,but your argument is ridiculous because: A) a decade is 10 years not four. Someone said that Kobe was the best of this decade and he probably is. Tmac playedat a high-level for about 3-4 of those years then started to get back problems, and that isnt debatable. Playing at the same high level and increasing yourgame for 8 years> playing at a high level for 3-4 and then getting back problems and declining. If you honestly think that Tmac has been better than Kobethis DECADE then you are absolutely insane.

Please keep your arguments straight homie. This started with someone saying there's no debate that 24 is the best SG this decade. What the heck does height have to do with if AI stacks up or not??
The reason I said the six inches comment was because of AI's D. Its pretty common knowledge that AI is an absolute beast on offense. Ihave no problem saying AI is as good as Kobe or better than Kobe on offense, but he isn't on the same level as Kobe defensively. Hence the comment aboutKobe being a better all-around player. I realize AI's scoring is absolutely amazing, but there are two sides of the ball and this is one of the reasonsthe Nuggets are struggling to make the playoffs. Give AI another six inches and he would be a much better defender with his quickness.

 

[bwoodfolkgd74]

Originally Posted by WstCoastGotti

west was cleary the best sg in his era, not really the case with kobe

I dont even like KB24 that much and this statement is just dumb. Kobe is clearly the best of this decade from the 2 spot... that aint debatable brutha.

SKA dominates fools on this board daily... but Classyfreshman is bringin heat to the table, i like it. GREAT arguments on both sides.


dude ai? tmac isnt on kobe's lvl as we speak, but he was giving kobe a run for his money for a hot second. imo kobe wasnt the best sg every year thisdecade, ai got some years, tmac got his.

but i wasnt trying to discredit kobe, i will still pick him over west. just seems west dominated at sg in his era more so than kobe has in his.

 

[enlightened thought]

The players in todays NBA have way more knowledge and are way better prepared than those of Jerry West's era.
lol...i don't know about that. There are a lot of players in the league that are ridiculous dumb. There is no basketball iq at all. Especially with early entries and high school kids coming into the league within the past decade. They aren't taught the fundamentals in college. I thinkplayers today are so much dumber than players of the past.

and as far as footage goes, there are plenty of footage of old school players in the 60s. i've seen them. it's just nobody gives a damn about thembecause that crap happened like 50 some odd years ago, who cares? but it's there if anyone wants to look at it...they are stored in vaults all over thenation.

i will agree that you can't judge a player by how he will do in a different era, that again uses the "what if" argument, which is purespeculation. i also believe that stats tell a great deal of a story. if you're dominating, you're dominating. you get those stats by outplaying youropponents, no matter who that opponent was. while they don't tell the whole story, you can determine how good someone was by their stats. i justdon't understand how someone can refute that.

 

[jsindaa]

Originally Posted by BwooDFolkGD74

Originally Posted by WstCoastGotti

west was cleary the best sg in his era, not really the case with kobe

I dont even like KB24 that much and this statement is just dumb. Kobe is clearly the best of this decade from the 2 spot... that aint debatable brutha.

SKA dominates fools on this board daily... but Classyfreshman is bringin heat to the table, i like it. GREAT arguments on both sides.

dude ai? tmac isnt on kobe's lvl as we speak, but he was giving kobe a run for his money for a hot second. imo kobe wasnt the best sg every year this decade, ai got some years, tmac got his.

but i wasnt trying to discredit kobe, i will still pick him over west. just seems west dominated at sg in his era more so than kobe has in his.


Ya'll getting kinda outta hand with this Kobe not dominating thing....he's clearly been the best over the decade. AI had ONE year where he wasbetter and T-Mac had 3-4 where they were about equal but neither was ever really the most dominant SG in any year especially after 03, Kobe has gone bananas.There are still 2 years left in the decade so we probably will see him winning a chip within that time. Which would be 4 or more rings and 7 years of completedominance while the other 3 he was at least top 2. Which can not be said about either of them, nor can they claim anything close. The only advantage would beAI's MVP award...which Kobe has a pretty legit chance of winning on top of the fact that he should already have one or two. I really can't see anargument being made as far as him NOT dominating this decade at his position. AI is close but I can't say he has any claim other than that oneyear....although he did lead his team to a Finals appearance by himself. He does have that AND he is a great scorer...maybe the best. Bottom line is Kobe hasALWAYS been a top 2 SG at worst this entire decade and no other SG can really stake that claim.

 

[i nasmatic i]

all this back and forth debating is hurting my head

i'll just say espn got #1 right...plenty of time for #2 to make a run though

 

[renkxedik]

Originally Posted by SHUGES


And herrrrrrrrrrrrrre we go.

T-Mac vs Hiss, Round 1829818195181692019015

Originally Posted by Scottsauce88

Actually, T-Mac for at least 3-4 years was looked at as superior to (or equal to) 24. Hard as it is for some of you to believe that.

For one, the four years being better is debatable. Two, a decade comprises of 10 years, not 3-4 years at a high level then a constant decline from there on out. Its not like TMac is the most durable player in the league anyways.

Underline: I agree it's debatable which is why I said "T-Mac for at least 3-4 years was looked at as superior (OR EQUAL TO) 24".

Italics: So are you saying that T-Mac has been in a "constant decline"? Or is it because he actually finally had a guy on his team who he could let take some of the scoring load from himself in Yao Ming??

To deny that Tracy McGrady was neck and neck with 24 from say 01 through 05 is absurd. Back to back scoring champ not in the conversation?

Scottsauce88 wrote:

---

AI also won an MVP award in this decade and a few scoring championships
im not a Kobe fan, but he has a pretty good shot at an MVP this year, and he has a few scoring championships. Oh, and a couple of rings.

AI is the closest debatable player to Kobe this decade, but Kobe is clearly a more complete player. If AI were 6 inches talller, this would be a much different conversation.

I like how you dismiss AI by saying Snake has his own shot at MVP. To dismiss AI's FOUR scoring titles by inflating 24's is just wrong. (I saw you said he has "a few" when he actually has two. Same amount as... oh wow, T-Mac).

Rings (three actually and not two for Beanhead) are irrelevant in a discussion about a player's INDIVIDUAL dominance anyway.

I'm still trying to figure out what AI's height has to do with anything. So now there's a height requirement to determine if a player can even stack up to Beanhead?

Please keep your arguments straight homie. This started with someone saying there's no debate that 24 is the best SG this decade. What the heck does height have to do with if AI stacks up or not??



The only person this decade that matches up with kobe this decade is AI... if you look at those 3-4 yrs that T-Mac had all of those were when Shaq wasstill on the lakers and Shaq was clearly the man on that team yet during those yrs at worst kobe was 1A in the convo of best shooting guard but as soon as Shaqleft lets not forget the team of NBDL ballers that kobe took to the playoffs every yr except that first yr where he was hurt whereas T-Mac's teamsconstantly underachieved in the weak east. As soon as it was Kobe's team he murked the league and the only Iverson at least offensively you could say wasthe closest to his level at sg.

One of the main reasons Ivo gets the nod is because despite the players he had the 76ers always was in the picture in the east not to mention the team he tookthe finals with his MVP in the bank.
As far as individual titles the only one that count is the MVP and for the last couple of yrs. Kobe was clearly robbed and we all know y.
so as far as this decade its Kobe then Ivo not too far behind and T-Mac somewhere in the rearview mirror... as far as i'm concerned the only thing that hasmcgrady even sniffing this list is his scoring titles but the fact that non of his teams made it to the second round in the east should null and void everysingle one of those

 

[fyalady]

kobe was never at the top sg spot untill like 3 years ago. it was always debatable. ai was the best at one point. vc,tmac,kb all were comparable. many peoplethought tmac was better than kobe in terms of overall skill set during his magic days. so let's not act like kobe dominated the sg spot for a decade likemj or west.

 

[MVP]

Originally Posted by FYALADY

kobe was never at the top sg spot untill like 3 years ago. it was always debatable. ai was the best at one point. vc,tmac,kb all were comparable. many people thought tmac was better than kobe in terms of overall skill set during his magic days. so let's not act like kobe dominated the sg spot for a decade like mj or west.

Really, Bean was NEVER at the top?

KB's Numbers over the decade (the 1st half don't forget he was putting these up WITH the most dominant big man in NBA history consistently puttingup 28 and 12 or something like that)
[table][tr][td]00-01[/td] [td]LAL[/td] [td]68[/td] [td]68[/td] [td]40.9[/td] [td]0.464[/td] [td]0.305[/td] [td]0.853[/td] [td]1.5[/td] [td]4.3[/td] [td]5.9[/td] [td]5.0[/td] [td]1.7[/td] [td]0.6[/td] [td]3.24[/td] [td]3.30[/td] [td]28.5[/td] [/tr][tr][td]01-02[/td] [td]LAL[/td] [td]80[/td] [td]80[/td] [td]38.3[/td] [td]0.469[/td] [td]0.250[/td] [td]0.829[/td] [td]1.4[/td] [td]4.1[/td] [td]5.5[/td] [td]5.5[/td] [td]1.5[/td] [td]0.4[/td] [td]2.79[/td] [td]2.90[/td] [td]25.2[/td] [/tr][tr][td]02-03[/td] [td]LAL[/td] [td]82[/td] [td]82[/td] [td]41.5[/td] [td]0.451[/td] [td]0.383[/td] [td]0.843[/td] [td]1.3[/td] [td]5.6[/td] [td]6.9[/td] [td]5.9[/td] [td]2.2[/td] [td]0.8[/td] [td]3.51[/td] [td]2.70[/td] [td]30.0[/td] [/tr][tr][td]03-04[/td] [td]LAL[/td] [td]65[/td] [td]64[/td] [td]37.6[/td] [td]0.438[/td] [td]0.327[/td] [td]0.852[/td] [td]1.6[/td] [td]3.9[/td] [td]5.5[/td] [td]5.1[/td] [td]1.7[/td] [td]0.4[/td] [td]2.63[/td] [td]2.70[/td] [td]24.0[/td] [/tr][tr][td]04-05[/td] [td]LAL[/td] [td]66[/td] [td]66[/td] [td]40.7[/td] [td]0.433[/td] [td]0.339[/td] [td]0.816[/td] [td]1.4[/td] [td]4.5[/td] [td]5.9[/td] [td]6.0[/td] [td]1.3[/td] [td]0.8[/td] [td]4.09[/td] [td]2.60[/td] [td]27.6[/td] [/tr][tr][td]05-06[/td] [td]LAL[/td] [td]80[/td] [td]80[/td] [td]41.0[/td] [td]0.450[/td] [td]0.347[/td] [td]0.850[/td] [td]0.9[/td] [td]4.4[/td] [td]5.3[/td] [td]4.5[/td] [td]1.8[/td] [td]0.4[/td] [td]3.13[/td] [td]2.90[/td] [td]35.4[/td] [/tr][tr][td]06-07[/td] [td]LAL[/td] [td]77[/td] [td]77[/td] [td]40.8[/td] [td]0.463[/td] [td]0.344[/td] [td]0.868[/td] [td]1.0[/td] [td]4.7[/td] [td]5.7[/td] [td]5.4[/td] [td]1.4[/td] [td]0.5[/td] [td]3.31[/td] [td]2.70[/td] [td]31.6[/td] [/tr][tr][td]07-08[/td] [td]LAL[/td] [td]64[/td] [td]64[/td] [td]38.5[/td] [td]0.466[/td] [td]0.350[/td] [td]0.845[/td] [td]1.1[/td] [td]5.0[/td] [td]6.1[/td] [td]5.3[/td] [td]2.0[/td] [td]0.5[/td] [td]3.41[/td] [td]2.60[/td] [td]28.2[/td] [/tr][/table]
T-Mac's Numbers over the decade
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[/td] [/tr][tr][td]00-01[/td] [td]ORL[/td] [td]77[/td] [td]77[/td] [td]40.1[/td] [td]0.457[/td] [td]0.355[/td] [td]0.733[/td] [td]2.5[/td] [td]5.0[/td] [td]7.5[/td] [td]4.6[/td] [td]1.5[/td] [td]1.5[/td] [td]2.57[/td] [td]2.10[/td] [td]26.8[/td] [/tr][tr][td]01-02[/td] [td]ORL[/td] [td]76[/td] [td]76[/td] [td]38.3[/td] [td]0.451[/td] [td]0.364[/td] [td]0.748[/td] [td]2.0[/td] [td]5.9[/td] [td]7.9[/td] [td]5.3[/td] [td]1.6[/td] [td]1.0[/td] [td]2.49[/td] [td]1.80[/td] [td]25.6[/td] [/tr][tr][td]02-03[/td] [td]ORL[/td] [td]75[/td] [td]74[/td] [td]39.4[/td] [td]0.457[/td] [td]0.386[/td] [td]0.793[/td] [td]1.6[/td] [td]4.9[/td] [td]6.5[/td] [td]5.5[/td] [td]1.6[/td] [td]0.8[/td] [td]2.60[/td] [td]2.10[/td] [td]32.1[/td] [/tr][tr][td]03-04[/td] [td]ORL[/td] [td]67[/td] [td]67[/td] [td]39.9[/td] [td]0.417[/td] [td]0.339[/td] [td]0.796[/td] [td]1.4[/td] [td]4.6[/td] [td]6.0[/td] [td]5.5[/td] [td]1.4[/td] [td]0.6[/td] [td]2.67[/td] [td]1.90[/td] [td]28.0[/td] [/tr][tr][td]04-05[/td] [td]HOU[/td] [td]78[/td] [td]78[/td] [td]40.8[/td] [td]0.431[/td] [td]0.326[/td] [td]0.774[/td] [td]0.9[/td] [td]5.3[/td] [td]6.2[/td] [td]5.7[/td] [td]1.7[/td] [td]0.7[/td] [td]2.58[/td] [td]2.10[/td] [td]25.7[/td] [/tr][tr][td]05-06[/td] [td]HOU[/td] [td]47[/td] [td]47[/td] [td]37.1[/td] [td]0.406[/td] [td]0.312[/td] [td]0.747[/td] [td]1.0[/td] [td]5.6[/td] [td]6.5[/td] [td]4.8[/td] [td]1.3[/td] [td]0.9[/td] [td]2.55[/td] [td]1.90[/td] [td]24.4[/td] [/tr][tr][td]06-07[/td] [td]HOU[/td] [td]71[/td] [td]71[/td] [td]35.8[/td] [td]0.431[/td] [td]0.331[/td] [td]0.707[/td] [td]0.8[/td] [td]4.5[/td] [td]5.3[/td] [td]6.5[/td] [td]1.3[/td] [td]0.5[/td] [td]3.00[/td] [td]1.90[/td] [td]24.6[/td] [/tr][tr][td]07-08[/td] [td]HOU[/td] [td]48[/td] [td]44[/td] [td]36.0[/td] [td]0.444[/td] [td]0.324[/td] [td]0.698[/td] [td]0.5[/td] [td]4.4[/td] [td]4.9[/td] [td]5.7[/td] [td]1.1[/td] [td]0.5[/td] [td]2.50[/td] [td]1.40[/td] [td]22.0[/td] [/tr][/table]
AI's numbers over the decade
[table][tr][td]00-01[/td] [td]PHI[/td] [td]71[/td] [td]71[/td] [td]42.0[/td] [td]0.420[/td] [td]0.320[/td] [td]0.814[/td] [td]0.7[/td] [td]3.1[/td] [td]3.8[/td] [td]4.6[/td] [td]2.5[/td] [td]0.3[/td] [td]3.34[/td] [td]2.10[/td] [td]31.1[/td] [/tr][tr][td]01-02[/td] [td]PHI[/td] [td]60[/td] [td]59[/td] [td]43.7[/td] [td]0.398[/td] [td]0.291[/td] [td]0.812[/td] [td]0.7[/td] [td]3.8[/td] [td]4.5[/td] [td]5.5[/td] [td]2.8[/td] [td]0.2[/td] [td]3.95[/td] [td]1.70[/td] [td]31.4[/td] [/tr][tr][td]02-03[/td] [td]PHI[/td] [td]82[/td] [td]82[/td] [td]42.5[/td] [td]0.414[/td] [td]0.277[/td] [td]0.774[/td] [td]0.8[/td] [td]3.4[/td] [td]4.2[/td] [td]5.5[/td] [td]2.7[/td] [td]0.2[/td] [td]3.49[/td] [td]1.80[/td] [td]27.6[/td] [/tr][tr][td]03-04[/td] [td]PHI[/td] [td]48[/td] [td]47[/td] [td]42.5[/td] [td]0.387[/td] [td]0.286[/td] [td]0.745[/td] [td]0.7[/td] [td]3.0[/td] [td]3.7[/td] [td]6.8[/td] [td]2.4[/td] [td]0.1[/td] [td]4.35[/td] [td]1.80[/td] [td]26.4[/td] [/tr][tr][td]04-05[/td] [td]PHI[/td] [td]75[/td] [td]75[/td] [td]42.3[/td] [td]0.424[/td] [td]0.308[/td] [td]0.835[/td] [td]0.7[/td] [td]3.3[/td] [td]4.0[/td] [td]7.9[/td] [td]2.4[/td] [td]0.1[/td] [td]4.59[/td] [td]1.90[/td] [td]30.7[/td] [/tr][tr][td]05-06[/td] [td]PHI[/td] [td]72[/td] [td]72[/td] [td]43.1[/td] [td]0.447[/td] [td]0.323[/td] [td]0.814[/td] [td]0.6[/td] [td]2.6[/td] [td]3.2[/td] [td]7.4[/td] [td]1.9[/td] [td]0.1[/td] [td]3.44[/td] [td]1.70[/td] [td]33.0[/td] [/tr][tr][td]06-07[/td] [td]PHI[/td] [td]15[/td] [td]15[/td] [td]42.7[/td] [td]0.413[/td] [td]0.226[/td] [td]0.885[/td] [td]0.5[/td] [td]2.3[/td] [td]2.7[/td] [td]7.3[/td] [td]2.2[/td] [td]0.1[/td] [td]4.40[/td] [td]1.40[/td] [td]31.2[/td] [/tr][tr][td]06-07[/td] [td]DEN[/td] [td]50[/td] [td]49[/td] [td]42.4[/td] [td]0.454[/td] [td]0.347[/td] [td]0.759[/td] [td]0.3[/td] [td]2.7[/td] [td]3.0[/td] [td]7.2[/td] [td]1.8[/td] [td]0.2[/td] [td]4.04[/td] [td]1.50[/td] [td]24.8[/td] [/tr][tr][td]07-08[/td] [td]DEN[/td] [td]63[/td] [td]63[/td] [td]42.2[/td] [td]0.451[/td] [td]0.337[/td] [td]0.816[/td] [td]0.6[/td] [td]2.5[/td] [td]3.1[/td] [td]7.2[/td] [td]2.0[/td] [td]0.1[/td] [td]3.16[/td] [td]1.30[/td] [td]26.9[/td] [/tr][/table]
IF you are just talking scoring, then yes KB8/24 hasn't dominated the decade (AI-29.4, KB-28.8ppg, T-Mac-26.2ppg), but you also have to factor in hisAll-NBA Defensive team and 1st, 2nd, 3rd All-NBA team selections which I believe he has more than T-Mac and AI combined so as an overall player he HASdominated this decade. You don't think he could have 4 or 5 scoring titles if Shaq wasn't on the Lakers, I mean he averaged close to 30 points WITHShaq on the team and we've seen the past 3 years what he is truly capable of scoring wise, so if he was the No. 1 option ala AI in Philly and T-Mac inOrlando, his scoring numbers would probably be higher.

 

[the sauna]

How my man Reggie Miller has been disrespected by some nter's in this thread is beyond me.. people must have already forgot just how nasty my man was...

 

[kobekid24]

Originally Posted by THE SAUNA

How my man Reggie Miller has been disrespected by some nter's in this thread is beyond me.. people must have already forgot just how nasty my man was...

word, I will NEVER forget those bulls vs. pacers games.

he use to just catch FIRE.

 

[sdtekken]

Originally Posted by KobeKid24

Originally Posted by THE SAUNA

How my man Reggie Miller has been disrespected by some nter's in this thread is beyond me.. people must have already forgot just how nasty my man was...

word, I will NEVER forget those bulls vs. pacers games.

he use to just catch FIRE.

Very exciting games to watch. I know yall remember this one:


Dont piss Mike off. Gave Reggie the ol tiger claw of death to his eye and then lit up the entire team�

So is the thread title gonna be changed to Who Is The #2 Greatest Shooting guard of all time or what?

 

[the sauna]

at the wgn announcers.. but thats the way Reggie played.. he didn't back down from anyone.. that was his mentality, he was doubted his entire life,i still remember when he went after matt geiger lol..

 

[wstcoastgotti]

Im not gunna lie... there may be many arguments in this thread, but I have never seen such quality arguments on NT regarding the NBA.

Yall bringing ur A game into this thread

 

[ph3n0m3n0n]

Originally Posted by FYALADY

kobe was never at the top sg spot untill like 3 years ago. it was always debatable. ai was the best at one point. vc,tmac,kb all were comparable. many people thought tmac was better than kobe in terms of overall skill set during his magic days. so let's not act like kobe dominated the sg spot for a decade like mj or west.

even then AI was giving Kobe a run for his money. I'd say last 2 years he's undoubtedly but AI isn't far behind. This best player period #@$%with him and Lebron should cease too while we're at it.

 

[darthska]

JsindaA:

---

Ya'll getting kinda outta hand with this Kobe not dominating thing....he's clearly been the best over the decade. AI had ONE year where he was better and T-Mac had 3-4 where they were about equal but neither was ever really the most dominant SG in any year especially after 03
I just wanted to focus on that bolded part for a second.

"Ya'll getting kinda outta hand with this Kobe not dominating thing" = you saying that people should not be saying that Kobe isn't dominant,right?

"AI had ONE year where he was better" = you saying AI had ONE year where he was better than Kobe, right?

"T-Mac had 3-4 where they were about equal but neither was ever really the most dominant SG in any year especially after 03" = you saying that T-Machad 3-4 years where he was about equal with Kobe, right?






Alright then...





Well Kobe's only been in the league for 11 full seasons (this is his 12th).

Obviously, he wasn't a dominant SG the year that AI was better, because that wouldn't make sense. So we can scratch that year off as a possible yearfor Kobe's dominance.

And if T-Mac was equal to Kobe for 3-4 years, then we can scratch those years off as possible years for Kobe's dominance, because you're not dominatingif someone else is equal to you.

So that leaves us with 4-5 years that Kobe was NOT dominant, and he's only been in the league for 11 seasons. So we're down to 6-7 possible years whereKobe could have been called 'dominant'.

Alright, his first two seasons, he was a rookie/sophomore, and Jordan was winning championships, Finals MVPs, and a regular season MVP ('96-'97).

So we can scratch those two years off as possible years of Kobe's dominance. That leaves us with a possible 4-5 years... out of 11... where Kobe couldPOSSIBLY be called dominant.

And that's not even saying he WAS dominant those 4-5 years; those are just the only years where it was even POSSIBLE.




So those years where AI was better, T-Mac was equal, and Jordan was still locking down the Finals trophy, let's say that Kobe WAS the most dominant SGduring those years; that would mean that he dominated for 4-5 years... out of 11. I'm no math major, but that's less than half of his career.

How could you say I dominated you if I won less than half of my battles against you?

How could he be called dominant if he could have only have dominated less than half of the years he played?




Name another SG from West's day. O.K., Pete Maravich, and he came at the tail end of West's career. name another. Forget naing another star SG; justname another one at all.

You can't, and there's a reason: because it didn't matter. At SG, there was Jerry West, and some... 'other'... guys.

He's not the logo because he was the best at his position for less than half of his career. He's not called Mr. Basketball because he was... kindadecent at the time, and sorta good for his day. He's not called Mr. Clutch because he hit a shot to win a game one time back in first junior varsity game.

Respect.

 

[knightngale]

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

I would take West, Maravich, and Iverson over Kobe.

Any day.

All day.

Every time you ask me.

Give Maravich, Iverson, or West the EXACT career Kobe has had... playing with one of the league's top 5 centers ever for like 8 years ('96-'97 to '03-'04, right?) and one of the top 3 coaches of all time, and they would at LEAST do what Kobe has done; I think they would do better, though.

What do Maravich or Iverson do better than Kobe? The only thing that comes to mind is probably passing and that's it. Even if you take out all theawards the players received I don't think you can place Iverson or Maravich over kobe.




Unless you hate him

when was tmac better or equal to kobe?

 

[jville819]

^ Jerry's game will always be respected and he's is one of the best SG to ever play, but like you said he didn't have all those nicknames fornothing. In the sports era we live in the media only seems to talk about the great players now and always seem to overlook who the great ones were before Kobeand Bron.

You best believe i'll tell my kids about the West, Robertson, Maravich, Monroe etc. Even though i never saw any of them play I've read about all ofthem and love learning about bball history. My dads favorite player of all-time was the Pistol and all he ever talked about was how the Pistol could do thingsthat no other player in the world was doing at that time and how he dominated every single night at the collegiate level. That is part of the reason whyMaravich became one of my favorite players.

I know there will be a new crop of players dominating when my kids are growing up, but i will tell them how i was able to watch Kobe, Bron, AI and others atthe height of their respective careers just like my dad told me about West and Maravich

 

[three6mafia2007]

SKA, what in the name of god are u talking about? all this adding and subtracting years is confusing lol. I mean obviously I understand what you're saying,but you're basically nitpicking at the arguments of others to try to prove your own point...

You know good and well that when we people on here were discussing this decade, they were referring the year 2000 and on until 2010. So referring to yearsprior to 2000 when responding to statements about kobe being the best of this decade is irrelevant

I'm not about to say T-Mac was "equal" with kobe during that 3-4 year span during the early years of this century. Offensively, they were abouteven during those years, but kobe was still rackin up all-nba 1st team defensive honors(and maybe 1 2nd-team) during that time period...advantage kobe

The year Iverson won the mvp is the only year in this decade where I would say that a shooting guard might have been better than kobe. AI was bananas thatyear, and I will gladly give him credit where credit is due

So that means that since 2000, which is obviously the beginning of this decade that we are referring to, kobe has been widely regarded as the best shootingguard in the league for 7 out of those 8 years. Thats dominance in my eyes

 

[jville819]

I would give AI at least 2 years of being the best SG in the L this decade

 

[wstcoastgotti]

So that means that since 2000, which is obviously the beginning of this decade that we are referring to, kobe has been widely regarded as the best shooting guard in the league for 7 out of those 8 years. Thats dominance in my eyes
WORD... I even had to call my pops today, and i said mayne tell me point blank, whos better... 24 or West?

He said West... then thought about it, and said... actually, 24 is makin a run at him, and he may be better. He was on the fence.

I have only seen 24 play... i just find it hard to believe there is any 2 guard out there besides MJ that was ever better. 24 is THAT GOOD. it took me like10 years to respect his game, but his game is just too damn good not to watch him night in and night out.

 

[shuges]

Oh my goodness, no one is arguing how good 24 is! We all get it.

He's good. Ok.

What some of you are not comprehending is that back in Jordan's day, there was NO TWO GUARD THAT COULD COMPARE TO HIM.

That's how dominant Jordan was.

And the point I am trying to make (and that ska summed up perfectly imo) is that Mamba has quite a few people who were either a. better than him or b. equal tohim throughout his career.

So how can you call someone dominant for this decade when he was never CLEARLY the best player at his position for an extended stretch of time??

I don't want to hear excuses about Shaq being there or his team wasn't that good. Whatever.

Jordan DOMINATED whether he had a scrubby team (early years) or a great team (late years). Bad coaches. Good coaches. No Pippen (early years). During rulechanges. Etc... Yet, throughout ALL of that, he was still CLEARLY the most dominant player.

Beanhead has NEVER achieved that for an EXTENDED length of time.