ESPN's what does Kobe have to do to surpass MJ?

id go by the chart and say he'd never pass mj but the 4% of people who voted for the 6mvps may have something, b/c he only has 1 now, so if he were to get5 more, than that would mean he'd technically be the best player every year for 5 more years and that usally goes for the best player on the best team
 
^
Glad you're ok buc, I know these last few months have terrible on you. You and OC got group therapy sessions goin?

Let's all settle down, nobody gonna match MJ, but Kobe still playin, he got 5-6 years to play some ball and make some things happen. Get another ring, tieMagic for Laker high, nobody be mad at what dude will have done with his career.

And btw, take a quick look, he stays healthy, he's hittin 33,000 points or so, and will be the all time Laker playoff leader in a whole bunch of stats, andmay make a run on some of MJ's totals in the playoffs. Not the 6 alone titles, or MVP's or any of that, but he'll take some numbers away.
wink.gif
 
^ I mean, a person would have have to be plumb-drunk-stupid to think that Kobe won't take some of MJs numbers away.

Heck, he's already taken one number away: 'most points in a single game since Wilt's triple digits'. Kobe's 81 is better than any ofMJ's single game outputs.

So there's one real quick.
 
Originally Posted by CP1708

Osh Kosh Bosh wrote:


T-mac from 2000-2003 matches up with some of the all time greats, specifically 02-03 which is one of the greatest single individual seasons in NBA history and better than any of Kobe Bryant's seasons.

smh.gif


If things like this keep getting said, this thread will go downhill real fast.

Is what I am saying a stretch? Kobe Bryant is a better player and has had a better career but that year from T-Mac Stack up to anythig Kobe'sever done in a single season.


Ill keep it simple and post the normal numbers.

[table][tr][th=""]Season[/th] [th=""]Age[/th] [th=""]Tm[/th] [th=""]Lg[/th] [th=""]G[/th] [th=""]GS[/th] [th=""]MP[/th] [th=""]FG[/th] [th=""]FGA[/th] [th=""]FG%[/th] [th=""]3P[/th] [th=""]3PA[/th] [th=""]3P%[/th] [th=""]FT[/th] [th=""]FTA[/th] [th=""]FT%[/th] [th=""]ORB[/th] [th=""]DRB[/th] [th=""]TRB[/th] [th=""]AST[/th] [th=""]STL[/th] [th=""]BLK[/th] [th=""]TOV[/th] [th=""]PF[/th] [th=""]PTS[/th] [/tr][tr][td]2002-03[/td] [td]23[/td] [td]ORL[/td] [td]NBA[/td] [td]75[/td] [td]74[/td] [td]39.4[/td] [td]11.1[/td] [td]24.2[/td] [td].457[/td] [td]2.3[/td] [td]6.0[/td] [td].386[/td] [td]7.7[/td] [td]9.7[/td] [td].793[/td] [td]1.6[/td] [td]4.9[/td] [td]6.5[/td] [td]5.5[/td] [td]1.7[/td] [td]0.8[/td] [td]2.6[/td] [td]2.1[/td] [td]32.1[/td] [/tr][/table]
[table][tr][th=""]Season[/th] [th=""]Age[/th] [th=""]Tm[/th] [th=""]Lg[/th] [th=""]G[/th] [th=""]GS[/th] [th=""]MP[/th] [th=""]FG[/th] [th=""]FGA[/th] [th=""]FG%[/th] [th=""]3P[/th] [th=""]3PA[/th] [th=""]3P%[/th] [th=""]FT[/th] [th=""]FTA[/th] [th=""]FT%[/th] [th=""]ORB[/th] [th=""]DRB[/th] [th=""]TRB[/th] [th=""]AST[/th] [th=""]STL[/th] [th=""]BLK[/th] [th=""]TOV[/th] [th=""]PF[/th] [th=""]PTS[/th] [/tr][tr][td]2005-06[/td] [td]27[/td] [td]LAL[/td] [td]NBA[/td] [td]80[/td] [td]80[/td] [td]41.0[/td] [td]12.2[/td] [td]27.2[/td] [td].450[/td] [td]2.3[/td] [td]6.5[/td] [td].347[/td] [td]8.7[/td] [td]10.2[/td] [td].850[/td] [td]0.9[/td] [td]4.4[/td] [td]5.3[/td] [td]4.5[/td] [td]1.8[/td] [td]0.4[/td] [td]3.1[/td] [td]2.9[/td] [td]35.4[/td] [/tr][/table]
Tracy shot a better percentage, from 2 and 3, out rebounded, and got more assists than Kobe. On the defensive end Tracy danm near had a block a gamer and alsoturned the ball over less.
 
Word I appreciate all of the opinions and feedback to my post earlier, but i'm sticking to MY opinion.


I will be known as the NT'er who said Kobe > MJ, and i dont care..save my post, take a picture, stoneface me, flame me, do whatever..It's MYOPINION, and as a basketball fan I'm pretty sure i'm allowed to have one. "Well its a stupid opinion"
laugh.gif
..Great, thank you for your thoughts. Again, MY opinion whether u think itsstupid or not


So with that said, i will say it again. Kobe bryants scoring ability is better than Jordans, his footwork is better than jordans, his ball handling skills arebetter than jordans. They're both lockdown defenders, they both have that drive and competitiveness in them..They are damn near the same player. Jordan hasattributes to his game that are better than Kobes, but you can say the same for #24.


4 straight 50 point games. Hasnt been done since f'n Wilt did it.
81 points, NUFF SAID.
THIS SEASON at 30 years old, 61 pts in like 36 minutes vs the Knicks.
eek.gif

Kobe averaged 45 points in the month of February of 2006. FORTY FIVE. How does that happen?
9 straight 40+ pt games, and 16 straight 35(or 30 i forgot) point games.
I can go on about the things kobe has done as a scorer, which pads my opinion on why i think he's better then Jordan, AS A SCORER.

You can say he's a ballhog, you can say hes selfish..But in fact you can argue that Jordan was even worse So dont't go there


in jordans time he was a force that could not be equaled. No arguement there. But he was also guarded by the likes of John Starks and Joe dumars, who were def.great players but not as physically imposed like Lebron, dwade, t-mac etc etc. The NBA right now in terms of NBA players are bigger, faster, and more skilledthen in Jordans time.


This arguement is a waste of time because my mind will not change. Just the fact that people say "NO ONE WILL EVER BE BETTER THAN MICHAEL JORDAN!!!"is ridiculous and a redundant statement..Kobe has years of elite seasons left in him, and as of RIGHT NOW he is the ONLY player to be compared to THE GREATMICHAEL JORDAN, and hes STILL not done. I think thats why most of y'all are mad
laugh.gif
..Scared to see it happen? Appreciate the past, and move on....We shall see.
 
kobe need to shoot at least 50% to be even be in the conversation with MJ.....people talk about how kobe is a better scorer and shooter....look at the shootingpercentage.
 
TIMEOUT

swear to god someone didnt say tmac was better then kobe for a 3 year period in the NBA?


roll.gif



i figured there was a reason i didnt read this thread
 
Originally Posted by Pill Clinton

Word I appreciate all of the opinions and feedback to my post earlier, but i'm sticking to MY opinion.


I will be known as the NT'er who said Kobe > MJ, and i dont care..save my post, take a picture, stoneface me, flame me, do whatever..It's MY OPINION, and as a basketball fan I'm pretty sure i'm allowed to have one. "Well its a stupid opinion"
laugh.gif
..Great, thank you for your thoughts. Again, MY opinion whether u think its stupid or not


So with that said, i will say it again. Kobe bryants scoring ability is better than Jordans, his footwork is better than jordans, his ball handling skills are better than jordans. They're both lockdown defenders, they both have that drive and competitiveness in them..They are damn near the same player. Jordan has attributes to his game that are better than Kobes, but you can say the same for #24.


4 straight 50 point games. Hasnt been done since f'n Wilt did it.
81 points, NUFF SAID.
THIS SEASON at 30 years old, 61 pts in like 36 minutes vs the Knicks.
eek.gif

Kobe averaged 45 points in the month of February of 2006. FORTY FIVE. How does that happen?
9 straight 40+ pt games, and 16 straight 35(or 30 i forgot) point games.
I can go on about the things kobe has done as a scorer, which pads my opinion on why i think he's better then Jordan, AS A SCORER.

You can say he's a ballhog, you can say hes selfish..But in fact you can argue that Jordan was even worse So dont't go there


in jordans time he was a force that could not be equaled. No arguement there. But he was also guarded by the likes of John Starks and Joe dumars, who were def. great players but not as physically imposed like Lebron, dwade, t-mac etc etc. The NBA right now in terms of NBA players are bigger, faster, and more skilled then in Jordans time.


This arguement is a waste of time because my mind will not change. Just the fact that people say "NO ONE WILL EVER BE BETTER THAN MICHAEL JORDAN!!!" is ridiculous and a redundant statement..Kobe has years of elite seasons left in him, and as of RIGHT NOW he is the ONLY player to be compared to THE GREAT MICHAEL JORDAN, and hes STILL not done. I think thats why most of y'all are mad
laugh.gif
..Scared to see it happen? Appreciate the past, and move on....We shall see.


There is nothing wrong with sticking with your opinion becasue there is no clear cut best player. A lot of people believe its jordan. Some old heads think itsDr. J and some have said Magic. All of it is just a matter of opinion. Some people get a little more upset over opinions then others but who cares.

I am to the point now where if you think kobe is better then jordan its cool. The bickering is old.
 
Originally Posted by Bigmike23

TIMEOUT

swear to god someone didnt say tmac was better then kobe for a 3 year period in the NBA?


roll.gif



i figured there was a reason i didnt read this thread
Interesting read here: http://www.wagesofwins.com/McGradyKobeCareer.html

More than 3 seasons actually... Of course, you either believe in that formula or not.


The Career of Tracy McGrady and his Teammates

Win Score = PTS + REB + STL + ½*BLK + ½*AST - FGA - ½*FTA - TO - ½*PF

WP48 = Wins Produced per 48 minutes

numbers in red are projections for an 82 game season in 1998-99

[table][tr][td]
Year
[/td] [td]
Team
[/td] [td]
Win Score

per 48 minutes
[/td] [td]
WP48
[/td] [td]
Wins

Produced
[/td] [td]
Teammates

WP48
[/td] [td]
Teammates

Wins

Produced
[/td] [td]
Summation of

Wins

Produced
[/td] [td]
Actual

Wins
[/td] [/tr][tr][td]
2006-07
[/td] [td]
Houston
[/td] [td]
8.68
[/td] [td]
0.188
[/td] [td]
9.9
[/td] [td]
0.122
[/td] [td]
44.0
[/td] [td]
54.0
[/td] [td]
52
[/td] [/tr][tr][td]
2005-06
[/td] [td]
Houston
[/td] [td]
8.27
[/td] [td]
0.157
[/td] [td]
5.7
[/td] [td]
0.082
[/td] [td]
31.0
[/td] [td]
36.7
[/td] [td]
34
[/td] [/tr][tr][td]
2004-05
[/td] [td]
Houston
[/td] [td]
9.79
[/td] [td]
0.214
[/td] [td]
14.2
[/td] [td]
0.109
[/td] [td]
37.8
[/td] [td]
52.0
[/td] [td]
51
[/td] [/tr][tr][td]
2003-04
[/td] [td]
Orlando
[/td] [td]
9.32
[/td] [td]
0.211
[/td] [td]
11.8
[/td] [td]
0.028
[/td] [td]
10.2
[/td] [td]
22.0
[/td] [td]
21
[/td] [/tr][tr][td]
2002-03
[/td] [td]
Orlando
[/td] [td]
13.08
[/td] [td]
0.339
[/td] [td]
20.8
[/td] [td]
0.058
[/td] [td]
20.4
[/td] [td]
41.3
[/td] [td]
42
[/td] [/tr][tr][td]
2001-02
[/td] [td]
Orlando
[/td] [td]
12.82
[/td] [td]
0.313
[/td] [td]
19.0
[/td] [td]
0.075
[/td] [td]
26.3
[/td] [td]
45.3
[/td] [td]
44
[/td] [/tr][tr][td]
2000-01
[/td] [td]
Orlando
[/td] [td]
10.89
[/td] [td]
0.291
[/td] [td]
18.7
[/td] [td]
0.074
[/td] [td]
26.0
[/td] [td]
44.7
[/td] [td]
43
[/td] [/tr][tr][td]
1999-00
[/td] [td]
Toronto
[/td] [td]
10.46
[/td] [td]
0.193
[/td] [td]
9.9
[/td] [td]
0.085
[/td] [td]
30.6
[/td] [td]
40.5
[/td] [td]
45
[/td] [/tr][tr][td]
1998-99
[/td] [td]
Toronto
[/td] [td]
12.46
[/td] [td]
0.308
[/td] [td]
7.1
[/td] [td]
0.066
[/td] [td]
15.1
[/td] [td]
36.4
[/td] [td]
37.7
[/td] [/tr][tr][td]
1997-98
[/td] [td]
Toronto
[/td] [td]
11.64
[/td] [td]
0.220
[/td] [td]
5.4
[/td] [td]
0.027
[/td] [td]
10.6
[/td] [td]
16.0
[/td] [td]
16
[/td] [/tr][tr][td]
[/td] [td]
Averages
[/td] [td]
10.71
[/td] [td]
0.247
[/td] [td]
12.3
[/td] [td]
0.072
[/td] [td]
25.2
[/td] [td]
38.9
[/td] [td]
38.6
[/td] [/tr][/table]



The Career of Kobe Bryant and his Teammates

[table][tr][td]
Year
[/td] [td]
Team
[/td] [td]
Win Score

per 48 minutes
[/td] [td]
WP48
[/td] [td]
Wins

Produced
[/td] [td]
Teammates

WP48
[/td] [td]
Teammates

Wins

Produced
[/td] [td]
Summation of

Wins

Produced
[/td] [td]
Actual

Wins
[/td] [/tr][tr][td]
2006-07
[/td] [td]
LA Lakers
[/td] [td]
10.79
[/td] [td]
0.234
[/td] [td]
15.3
[/td] [td]
0.074
[/td] [td]
25.9
[/td] [td]
41.2
[/td] [td]
42
[/td] [/tr][tr][td]
2005-06
[/td] [td]
LA Lakers
[/td] [td]
9.53
[/td] [td]
0.209
[/td] [td]
14.3
[/td] [td]
0.097
[/td] [td]
33.4
[/td] [td]
47.7
[/td] [td]
45
[/td] [/tr][tr][td]
2004-05
[/td] [td]
LA Lakers
[/td] [td]
9.09
[/td] [td]
0.175
[/td] [td]
9.8
[/td] [td]
0.065
[/td] [td]
23.1
[/td] [td]
32.9
[/td] [td]
34
[/td] [/tr][tr][td]
2003-04
[/td] [td]
LA Lakers
[/td] [td]
9.88
[/td] [td]
0.239
[/td] [td]
12.2
[/td] [td]
0.109
[/td] [td]
39.5
[/td] [td]
51.7
[/td] [td]
56
[/td] [/tr][tr][td]
2002-03
[/td] [td]
LA Lakers
[/td] [td]
11.33
[/td] [td]
0.270
[/td] [td]
19.1
[/td] [td]
0.086
[/td] [td]
29.5
[/td] [td]
48.6
[/td] [td]
50
[/td] [/tr][tr][td]
2001-02
[/td] [td]
LA Lakers
[/td] [td]
9.18
[/td] [td]
0.213
[/td] [td]
13.6
[/td] [td]
0.151
[/td] [td]
52.6
[/td] [td]
66.2
[/td] [td]
58
[/td] [/tr][tr][td]
2000-01
[/td] [td]
LA Lakers
[/td] [td]
9.00
[/td] [td]
0.180
[/td] [td]
10.5
[/td] [td]
0.112
[/td] [td]
40.1
[/td] [td]
50.6
[/td] [td]
56
[/td] [/tr][tr][td]
1999-00
[/td] [td]
LA Lakers
[/td] [td]
9.95
[/td] [td]
0.245
[/td] [td]
12.9
[/td] [td]
0.143
[/td] [td]
51.4
[/td] [td]
64.2
[/td] [td]
67
[/td] [/tr][tr][td]
1998-99
[/td] [td]
LA Lakers
[/td] [td]
7.43
[/td] [td]
0.170
[/td] [td]
6.7
[/td] [td]
0.110
[/td] [td]
38.0
[/td] [td]
49.0
[/td] [td]
50.8
[/td] [/tr][tr][td]
1997-98
[/td] [td]
LA Lakers
[/td] [td]
6.22
[/td] [td]
0.095
[/td] [td]
4.1
[/td] [td]
0.157
[/td] [td]
58.0
[/td] [td]
62.1
[/td] [td]
61
[/td] [/tr][tr][td]
1996-97
[/td] [td]
LA Lakers
[/td] [td]
4.74
[/td] [td]
0.049
[/td] [td]
1.1
[/td] [td]
0.132
[/td] [td]
51.7
[/td] [td]
52.8
[/td] [td]
56
[/td] [/tr][tr][td]
-
[/td] [td]
Averages
[/td] [td]
9.26
[/td] [td]
0.202
[/td] [td]
10.9
[/td] [td]
0.113
[/td] [td]
40.3
[/td] [td]
51.5
[/td] [td]
52.3
[/td] [/tr][/table]
 
U have to be a idiot, punch drunk, or 8 years old to honestly believe that kobe is better than mj... I mean seriously I know a lot of you laker fans areignorant but I didn't know u guys would eventually start believing this garbage. Its not even close.
 
Originally Posted by LamarOwnsem

Originally Posted by BC2310

Originally Posted by LamarOwnsem

Originally Posted by BC2310


Kobe's team lost a deciding NBA Finals game by 39 points

Mike's team never lost a finals appearance

Kobe will never surpass
Funny how the word 'team' plays a big part in your argument.

And? The word team comes into play because basketball is a team sport not an individual sport, Kobe is the best player in the game right now, Michael is the G.O.A.T.

Funny how Kobe should have 5 rings... Not hating just saying
Funny how They have both been to the finals 6x: Michaels record 24-11, Kobes record 19-11

If Michael was on a team with Shaq and Phil was coaching does anyone think they would've lost to the 03-04 Pistons (Great Squad) 4-1?
It's a rhetorical question, if you think they would've lost how did Wade and Shaq beat them a year later?
First of all, winning championships is a team accomplishment, not an individual one. It doesn't make Charles Barkley any worse of a player because he doesn't have a ring.

That's a hypothetical situation and it's very well possible that the Lakers could have lost with Jordan replacing Kobe. But you never know. Jordan never had a dominant post player on the offensive end so who knows how he would play with Shaq in the paint. Jordan also never played with a disgruntled point guard or a very skilled power forward hobbling on one leg.

I'm not defending Kobe because I really don't care who thinks who is better; it doesn't matter to me. I think it's flawed to believe that just because Jordan is on a team that he's going to MAKE his team win. That's not possible.

Focus on the individual accomplishments and attributes, not the team ones.
Well because Jordan and Kobe are pretty similar in terms of accomplishments and attributes, I feel that it is necessary to nit pick at damn nearevery detail and intangibles.
How their team did is one of those intangibles because it represents how Jordan/Kobe were to bring thecollective efforts to a high level.
 
Originally Posted by LamarOwnsem

First of all, winning championships is a team accomplishment, not an individual one. It doesn't make Charles Barkley any worse of a player because he doesn't have a ring.

That's a hypothetical situation and it's very well possible that the Lakers could have lost with Jordan replacing Kobe. But you never know. Jordan never had a dominant post player on the offensive end so who knows how he would play with Shaq in the paint. Jordan also never played with a disgruntled point guard or a very skilled power forward hobbling on one leg.

I'm not defending Kobe because I really don't care who thinks who is better; it doesn't matter to me. I think it's flawed to believe that just because Jordan is on a team that he's going to MAKE his team win. That's not possible.

Focus on the individual accomplishments and attributes, not the team ones.
You wrote "it's very well possible that the Lakers could have lost with Jordan replacing Kobe" but do you really believe that,hypothetically speaking?

Individual accomplishments: Jordan 6x NBA Finals MVP in 6 appearances, Kobe 1x NBA Finals MVP in 6 appearances
tongue.gif


I'm a fan of the Black Mamba hands down the best player in the world right now but MJ is the G.O.A.T.
 
Originally Posted by Pill Clinton

I think people mistake ACCOMPLISHMENTS with pure SKILL.

MJ has accomplished much more than Kobe has, not arguing that.
But its like a rapper who sells millions and millions of records, does that make him the greatest rapper of all time? No, it doesn't.

Kobe Bryant has assets to his game that are BETTER than Michael Jordans...Mike might have rings, but we're talking about skill here. Kobe > Michael Jordan.


Better shooter, better scorer, better footwork, better ball-handling, etc.

I'm going to get a million stone faces, but i don't care. I'm not just a biased Laker/Kobe fan either. This is coming from a basketball fan. When it is all said and done, kobe bryant will be the greatest basketball player of all time.


Kobe > MJ


istockphoto_842320_flame_boy.jpg


*puts on flame suit*

laugh.gif
...
indifferent.gif
...
roll.gif
...
indifferent.gif

















seriously
indifferent.gif
youre an idiot ...
 
Wow, now we going from comparing Kobe to MJ to some people actually saying Brokeback McGrady was better
smh.gif


and for the record, Kobe's best all around seasons statistically were either 02-03 or 06-07

YR TM G GS MIN FG FG% 3P 3P% FT FT% STL BLK TO PF OFF DEF TOT AST PTS

02-03 LAL 82 82 41.5 10.6-23.5 .451 1.5-4.0 .383 7.3-8.7 .843 2.2 0.8 3.5 2.7 1.3 5.6 6.9 5.9 30.0
06-07 LAL 77 77 40.8 10.6-22.8 .463 1.8-5.2 .344 8.7-10.0 .868 1.4 0.5 3.3 2.7 1.0 4.7 5.7 5.4 31.6
 
It's impossible to compare eras. Simple as that. It's 2009, so it is impossible to compare to an era 15, 20 years ago. Anyone ever compare 1980 to1960? No way. Some of you really don't believe the game has evolved (for better or worse depending on your opinion) since '85, '90, '95, etc.?Second of all, I'm getting sick of all these John Hollinger mad-scientists w/ they stats wannabes for that reason above.

I grew up with Money. Therefore, he is the best there ever was. Simple as that. My great grandfather might've witnessed Russell's 11 rings. He is thebest to him. And so on. I love both players. There is no need for me to lose sleep if KB isn't as great as Mike. I still love watching him play basketball.
 
Originally Posted by JsindaA

Originally Posted by maxi320

Phil Clinton - No hate, everyone has their opinion. Kobe is amazing, but hes no MJ.

Check out this article I found. It will rebute your "Better Scorer" "better Shooter" arguments. Jordan has 10 scoring titles. How is Kobe a better scorer? Jordans career averages are better than Kobe's all around. You can't argue with Numbers.


The Definitive "%%#% saying Kobe=Jordan"
After last night it's not a stretch to say Kobe is one of the greatest NBA players to have ever played. He's been in 6 NBA Finals this decade. I don't think that's a Robert Horry/Steve Kerr type of coincidence. He's won titles with two completely different teams. There are eight players however, that I don't think you can make any argument for Kobe being better than based on career accomplishments: Duncan, Wilt, Russell, Kareem, Shaq, Bird, Magic and most assuredly Michael Jeffrey Jordan
I used to consider Jordan Elvis and Kobe the Honky Tonk Man; a poor, but entertaining imitation of greatness that had achieved a championship and etched a mark in history. But, like Honky, it's understood that he only won because he had ample help and/or outside interference.Honky Tonk Man had the Hart Foundation, Jimmy Hart and his megaphone. Kobe had Shaq, Phil Jackson, and Referees A and F. However, now that Kobe has won a championship without Shaq, I have no choice but to elevate Bryant. He has indeed achieved greatness. Now a more apt comparison should be Jordan as the Beatles and Kobe as Oasis. Kobe is now without question the greatest cover band of Michael Jordan. Like Oasis, Kobe has had a few undoubtedly great seasons/albums. Anyone with half a brain, however, wouldn't compare the two other than saying Oasis/Kobe worship(s) The Beatles/Jordan and has taken great steps to copy their/his style. (The end of game celebration? C'mon now.) This admiration and imitation should cause the public to see how ridiculous both look in comparison to their idols. However there are fools, that will actually say these cover bands are better than the originals. The following will put an end to the Kobe/Jordan comparisons. If anyone says Kobe is comparable or better than Jordan show them this. If they continue to babble on "you are now allowed to officially slap +!*!*%%"
What people don't understand is that by saying Kobe is better than or even comparable to Jordan you are saying that Kobe Bryant is in the discussion for the greatest ATHLETE of all time. This would mean Kobe is on par with Ruth, Gretzky, Ali, Rice, Nicklaus et al. Now, honestly, what type of ****ery is that? With each of the aforementioned when they retired they had done one or multiple things of a singular nature. To me that's always been the standard for greatness: "What have you done that no one else in the history of mankind has done?"
If the question is asked of Jordan he could respond:
"I have won 10 scoring championships, including 7 straight, which no one has done. I have won the Finals MVP six times, which is twice as much as anyone else has. I am the only person to score 63 points in a playoff game. I scored in double figures in 866 consecutive games. I am the only person to avg 41 points in an NBA Finals. I have scored more points in the playoffs than anyone on Earth. I have a higher scoring average than anyone who has lived. I have a higher playoff scoring average than anyone who has lived. I am the only person who has won the Defensive Player of the Year Award and the scoring title in the same year. Not to brag, but think about how incredible that is. Could you imagine a football player who played offense like Jerry Rice and defense like Lawrence Taylor? I'd like to think I've made that absurdity a reality in basketball."
And you, Mr. Bryant? What have you done that noone else has?
"I scored 61 points in Madison Square Garden."
Kobe has played 13 years and that's his only record. Perfectly, that's the exact number of years Jordan played with the Bulls. Other things of note during their 13 years of greatness
Scoring Titles: 10 to 2
League MVPs: 5 to 1
Finals MVPs: 6 to 1
If you look at their career averages Jordan and Kobe aren't even close. But honestly it's not a fair comparison because Kobe didn't have the seasoning of 3 years in college that Jordan had. Kobe's first three years were like an incubation period and unfairly pull his statistical averages down. Let's not use those first three years of Kobe and let's instead compare the two from the ages of 21-29, which coincides with Jordan's first run with the Bulls. This goes up until last year for Kobe when he won the MVP award. So this is Kobe's best stretch of basketball we're including here. During this time Kobe, not coincidentally, lol, played 666 games and Jordan played 667. I want as much of an apples to apples comparison as possible. So let's look at the two.
Jordan
32.3 PPG 6.3 RPG 5.9 AST 2.7 STLS 1.0 BLK 52% FG
Kobe
28.3 PPG 5.9 RPG 5.3 AST 1.7 STLS 0.6 BLK 46% FG
Jordan beats him in all categories. Now, lest you think that .06 isn't that big of a divide for FG%, here's a little perspective: .06 was the difference between the best shooting team in the NBA this past season and the worst shooting NBA team. So .06 is a HUGE gap. The 4 PPG gap between the two is more than the gap between Lebron James and Danny Granger's scoring averages last year. You wouldn't make an argument for the worst shooting team in the league being comparable to the best would you? Would you make an argument that Danny Granger is a comparable scorer to Lebron James? Also during this time Jordan had 7 scoring titles, 3 MVPs, 3 Finals MVPs and won Defensive POTY. Kobe won 2 scoring titles, and 1 MVP during this time. This is Kobe's prime, folks.
You'll constantly hear the echoing of "Not since Michael Jordan" when it comes to Kobe. Here's one: "Not since Michael Jordan has anyone averaged 35 points per game as Kobe did in 2006." What people fail to do when they say things like this is couch the statement with proper qualification. I will. Let's compare both of their 35 PPG seasons shall we. This is a great comparison because Kobe didn't have Shaq and this was Pippen's rookie year and he didn't start any games; playing less than Michael Pietrus did this year for Orlando. This comparison is indicative of the "Not since Jordan" shortsightedness
Kobe 2006
35.4 PPG .450 FG% 5.3 RPG 4.5 APG 1.8 STL 0.4 BLK
Jordan 1998
35.0 PPG .535 FG% 5.5 RPG 5.9 APG 3.2 STL 1.6 BLK
In 1998, Jordan won the scoring title, MVP, and Defensive POTY. He led the league in steals and set the all-time record for most blocks by a guard. In 2006 Kobe won the scoring title. Now the league FG% during Jordan's year was higher than it was in Kobe's. Some oldtimers say that's because the players were more skilled and/or intelligent. For the sake of argument let's say that during Kobe's year the players were in fact more skilled/intelligent, but the AWESOME defense Kobe and his peers have to face is what limits the offense. Okay. I'll go with that. Seems like it helps Kobe's case, right? Wrong. Let's see who dominated their peers more effectively and compare Mike and Kobe's shooting relative to the rest of their leagues. In 1988 the league FG% was .480 and Jordan shot .535. In 2006 the league FG% was .454 and Kobe shot .450. If you're not good with math let me explain. Kobe shot LOWER than the average player in the NBA. Just for emphasis, Kobe led the league in field goal attempts that year, also. I don't know, I'm not that bright, but it would seem to me that if you have a player who shoots worse than the average player does, you wouldn't want him to shoot more than any other player in the league. Would you say that person who shot that much had a high basketball IQ? Would you call that person a ballhog? Or would you compare that player to great athletes like Jerry Rice?
Kobe Bryant has NEVER had a season where he made more shots than he missed. If you look at any so-called great player of the last 40 years they all had at least some stretch where they made more than they missed. It's even more ridiculous when you think he had Shaquille O +#$!%@* Neal drawing the defense. So if I'm in Vegas and everytime Kobe shoots I bet he will miss, by the time the season is over I'll be rich. That is super wack. But he's up there with Ali, huh?
That's just regular season, though. Let's talk about "winning time,"since THE BLACK MAMBA is "the best closer in the game" Now that they've both completed 6 NBA Finals let's compare the two in the Finals.
Jordan
33.6 PPG 6.0 RPG 6.0 APG 1.9 STL 0.7 BLK 48% FG
Kobe
24.6 PPG 5.2 RPG 5.3 APG 1.7 STL 0.9 BLK 41% FG
Damn, the gap widens. Also, let's not forget Jordan played 3 of these finals at the age of 33, 34, and 35. Kobe's not 31 yet. It's made even worse when you think of who Jordan's sidekick was and who Kobe had. Let's look at the scoring stats of their sidekicks in the Finals.
Pippen - 19.0 PPG 42%
Shaq - 33.6 PPG 60%
Gasol - 16.5 PPG 57%
Jordan had a weak shooting second option in Pippen. Pippen was an elite defender, great finisher, and decent three point shooter, but he was extremely limited in offensive fundamentals. He also was a complete +$%!+ in the clutch. Jordan had no choice but to carry the offensive burden. Kobe on the other hand, had the good fortune to play with the greatest half court offensive weapon of all time in Shaq and Gasol at this point is the most skilled post player in the league. Certainly a 33-year-old Tim Duncan isn't superior. In these Finals Gasol averaged 19 and shot 60% with the Defensive Player of the Year opposing him. So with two elite low post players drawing double teams and freeing up other players for open shots, Kobe managed to shoot an abysmal 41% from the field. Twice in the Finals he shot below 40%. Well below his low post superstar teammates. But he's comparable to Babe Ruth?
Let me make this clear also. All this "best closer in the game" is *%%+###+. He's the Lee Smith of closers. He's gotten more opportunities and it inflates his numbers. But if you look at his blown opportunities and "close" percentage you see he really is overrated in that regard. Take these Finals. He got his potential game winning shot blocked by Hedo %*%%@# Turkoglu. The next game with a chance to tie or win the game he wildly dribbled into a double team and had the ball stolen from him by Michael Pietrus. But he's the best closer in the game? Wait what's Kobe's greatest playoff moment? .............. Exactly. I can tell you what I remember. Giving up a 3-1 lead to the Suns in the playoffs and scoring 0 points in the second half of Game 7. I can remember the Celtics blowing them out by 39 points in Game 6 last year and him shooting 32% from the field; being outplayed in those finals by Ray Allen and Paul Pierce. I can remember the 2004 Finals when Kobe shot 38% from the field and shot 29 more times than Shaq, who shot 63%. Those Finals he was outplayed by Chauncey Billups and Rip Hamilton. Jordan, on the other hand, was never outplayed in any Finals. Playoff moments? Both shots on Russell. Shot on Ehlo. Shot on Wilkins. Shrug Game. Shot to send the game into OT in game 3 of 91 Finals. Not to mention the shot at UNC. Jordan in the playoffs has hit 3 shots that ended the other team's season. That's a closer.
More on the second fiddle topic:
In 1998 Scottie Pippen missed 35 games. During that 35 game stretch the bulls went 24-11 for a .686 winning percentage. Projected over 82 games that's a 57-25 record, which would have been second in the Eastern Conference. In 1993 the Bulls had a record of 57-25 and finished second in the Eastern Conference. They won the NBA Title that year. So, yes Pippen helped, but I'm just sayin....
Beyond all the quantitative and qualitative analysis outlined above, there is this:
Bryant told detectives in Eagle, Colo.: "He should have done what Shaq does ... that Shaq would pay his women not to say anything" and already had paid up to $1 million "for situations like this."
But he's up there with Jordan, huh?

This article is EXTREMELY biased...

From a statistical standpoint, thats a good article. but should INCLUDE some of the stuff that phil clinton talked about
4 straight 50 point games. Hasnt been done since f'n Wilt did it.
81 points, NUFF SAID.
THIS SEASON at 30 years old, 61 pts in like 36 minutes vs the Knicks.
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Kobe averaged 45 points in the month of February of 2006. FORTY FIVE. How does that happen?
9 straight 40+ pt games, and 16 straight 35(or 30 i forgot) point games.
I can go on about the things kobe has done as a scorer, which pads my opinion on why i think he's better then Jordan, AS A SCORER.

You can say he's a ballhog, you can say hes selfish..But in fact you can argue that Jordan was even worse So dont't go there


.That would definetly lessen the gap.. its sad though as that was a very informative piece but couldnt be totally unbiased about it. then again, im sure MJ hadsome monthly or 10 game stretch numbers that were mind boggling statistically.

I mean the league fg%s and taking out kobes first three years was all stuff I would be doing for an argument and he did that.. but its missing some kobe stuffthat might level the playing field a bit.
 
Originally Posted by Pill Clinton

I think people mistake ACCOMPLISHMENTS with pure SKILL.

MJ has accomplished much more than Kobe has, not arguing that.
But its like a rapper who sells millions and millions of records, does that make him the greatest rapper of all time? No, it doesn't.

Kobe Bryant has assets to his game that are BETTER than Michael Jordans...Mike might have rings, but we're talking about skill here. Kobe > Michael Jordan.


Better shooter, better scorer, better footwork, better ball-handling, etc.

I'm going to get a million stone faces, but i don't care. I'm not just a biased Laker/Kobe fan either. This is coming from a basketball fan. When it is all said and done, kobe bryant will be the greatest basketball player of all time.


Kobe > MJ


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*puts on flame suit*
oh my....




i don't blame the haters on this one
 
The worst replies are........

NOBODY WILL EVER SURPASS MJ...it sounds so silly...

Dont people realize the same was said about all the greats before him....Russel,Magic,Wilt,Kareem etc etc....Even the great''LOGO'' Jerry West..

If you truly believe he wont be surpassed then you are truly MJ's biggest STAN [ a word i hate btw] or u can see into the future...

Bottom line athletes EVOLVE AND GET BETTER, its inevitable that MJ will be surpassed ATHLETICALLY BUT PROBABLY NOT RINGS & SUCH

Im 30 yrs old so i can remember what people thought of MJ before he became JESUS, older dudes hated him and said he would never be better than BIRD

OR MAGIC, LMAO EVEN DR.J.......Now im hearing the same nonsense again.....Hilarious.....
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Laker/Kobe Fans

Congrats on winning the Chip if I haven't said so.

But if no one has said this yet...


Enjoy your Championship,stop with the stupid comparisons,stop trying to go back in time...move forward.

Don't worry about Mike and the Bulls,let that be,if anything I would be eyeing the Celtics having 17 Chips.

In no way,shape,or form are you guys going to win that argument,so please for y'all sake,move forward.
 
I really cant wait till the player that is better than Michael comes along. Its going to be fun listening to people trying to defend Michael.
 
Originally Posted by RetroBaller

I really cant wait till the player that is better than Michael comes along. Its going to be fun listening to people trying to defend Michael.
Mayo just got drafted chill out
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