ESPN's what does Kobe have to do to surpass MJ?

[casperjr]

Originally Posted by Slow Motion G35

Originally Posted by tmukg21

Originally Posted by MJsaver

NobleKane wrote:
his two season with washington did take some glow away from him... if his dad wouldnt have died he no doubt would have won atleast 9 straight titles

IF YOURE SERIOUS PLEASE SEEK PROFESSIONAL HELP BECAUSE YOU MUST BE DELUSIONAL......



*Doug Collins is that you?*

lets see : pushing to the limits on my time machine tonight

last win being in '98--- 6 rings of course
they could have won one of the two in between the 3 rings making it 7 or 8
they could have won the lock out year
gave the lakers a game 6/7, MJ + Pippen plus some nice free agents

9 in a row. no ......basically shutting down the decade even further...of course


This is why kobe can't at his level....he wasted away too much time doing this "look at me,look at me"act (04-0

only thing factual about ur rant is 6 rings...rest is blah blah


if thats the best come bac you could have made you should have saved it

this dude is dead on i dont think any real fan would even argue(as far as winning more if he had played throw it ) but some one will

 

[thekingofva]

Kobe could accomplish everything he has done so far in his career times 2 and would still be way behind Jordan. He isn't close skills wise and plays in aso-so era, no great big men.

 

[lifelessons]

its Kobe's fault why he's in MJ shadow.....from the stupid comments he made when he entered the league...and from him constantly trying to mimicjordan...as recently as him trying to pull off Jordan's celebration

...

 

[DownByLaw]

Any true die-hard (over the age of 2 Lakers fan that would take Kobe over Magic should be shot and left in the streets. No matter how much hype gets pumpedinto the septic tank known as ESPN, I will never buy into the hype that Magic is not the greatest Laker ever. I don't care how much longer Kobe plays, hecouldn't carry Magic's jock strap when it comes to running a squad. I actually put Magic a fine hair right behind Jordan on the all time great list.

 

[mustbetheshoe58]

jordan's accomplishments are far superior than kobe's. but i believe that kobe will win at least 2-3 more when he hangs it up.

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Originally Posted by CP1708

Osh Kosh Bosh wrote:


T-mac from 2000-2003 matches up with some of the all time greats, specifically 02-03 which is one of the greatest single individual seasons in NBA history and better than any of Kobe Bryant's seasons.

If things like this keep getting said, this thread will go downhill real fast.

Is what I am saying a stretch? Kobe Bryant is a better player and has had a better career but that year from T-Mac Stack up to anythig Kobe's ever done in a single season.


Ill keep it simple and post the normal numbers.

[table][tr][th=""]Season[/th] [th=""]Age[/th] [th=""]Tm[/th] [th=""]Lg[/th] [th=""]G[/th] [th=""]GS[/th] [th=""]MP[/th] [th=""]FG[/th] [th=""]FGA[/th] [th=""]FG%[/th] [th=""]3P[/th] [th=""]3PA[/th] [th=""]3P%[/th] [th=""]FT[/th] [th=""]FTA[/th] [th=""]FT%[/th] [th=""]ORB[/th] [th=""]DRB[/th] [th=""]TRB[/th] [th=""]AST[/th] [th=""]STL[/th] [th=""]BLK[/th] [th=""]TOV[/th] [th=""]PF[/th] [th=""]PTS[/th] [/tr][tr][td]2002-03[/td] [td]23[/td] [td]ORL[/td] [td]NBA[/td] [td]75[/td] [td]74[/td] [td]39.4[/td] [td]11.1[/td] [td]24.2[/td] [td].457[/td] [td]2.3[/td] [td]6.0[/td] [td].386[/td] [td]7.7[/td] [td]9.7[/td] [td].793[/td] [td]1.6[/td] [td]4.9[/td] [td]6.5[/td] [td]5.5[/td] [td]1.7[/td] [td]0.8[/td] [td]2.6[/td] [td]2.1[/td] [td]32.1[/td] [/tr][/table]
[table][tr][th=""]Season[/th] [th=""]Age[/th] [th=""]Tm[/th] [th=""]Lg[/th] [th=""]G[/th] [th=""]GS[/th] [th=""]MP[/th] [th=""]FG[/th] [th=""]FGA[/th] [th=""]FG%[/th] [th=""]3P[/th] [th=""]3PA[/th] [th=""]3P%[/th] [th=""]FT[/th] [th=""]FTA[/th] [th=""]FT%[/th] [th=""]ORB[/th] [th=""]DRB[/th] [th=""]TRB[/th] [th=""]AST[/th] [th=""]STL[/th] [th=""]BLK[/th] [th=""]TOV[/th] [th=""]PF[/th] [th=""]PTS[/th] [/tr][tr][td]2005-06[/td] [td]27[/td] [td]LAL[/td] [td]NBA[/td] [td]80[/td] [td]80[/td] [td]41.0[/td] [td]12.2[/td] [td]27.2[/td] [td].450[/td] [td]2.3[/td] [td]6.5[/td] [td].347[/td] [td]8.7[/td] [td]10.2[/td] [td].850[/td] [td]0.9[/td] [td]4.4[/td] [td]5.3[/td] [td]4.5[/td] [td]1.8[/td] [td]0.4[/td] [td]3.1[/td] [td]2.9[/td] [td]35.4[/td] [/tr][/table]
Tracy shot a better percentage, from 2 and 3, out rebounded, and got more assists than Kobe. On the defensive end Tracy danm near had a block a gamer and also turned the ball over less.




Osh, how bout you check Kobe's 02-03 season.

When he got 30 7 and 6 a game with 2 steals, 38 percent from 3, 84 from the stripe and 45 from the field.

Oh, and by the way, just in case you weren't sure, he put up those 30 and 7 with another guy on his team takin shots away, and boards too to the clip ofabout 28 and 10.

You said any Kobe season, I never said 05-06 now did I?

 

[classy freshman]

Kobe has a chance.

Mike won his first title when he was 29. Kobe has four at 30. Kobe has a great work ethic and always stays in great shape. His supporting cast is young. Kobeis going to make it interesting.

Another thing... I am TIRED of Mike getting this GOD treatment. Mike is great, but he had a lot of help. I am old enough to have watched games where Scottie,BJ, Kerr, Kukoc, etc. etc. etc. would CARRY Mike. Mike would have nights where he would almost shoot them out of games, but Pip and Rodman's defense, orKerr's/BJ's/Paxson's shooting, would keep them in and win them games. Contrary to what everyone believes... especialy the younger generation, Mikewas not perfect. He was criticized in a lot of the same ways Kobe was criticized... especialy before he won any titles. After the championships started comingin, he got a pass for everything wrong he did.

Mike was great and as of now the best ever, but this unreachable GOD status that he has attained over time is ridiculous to me. He can be surpassed.

 

[651akathepaul]

^ The biggest difference I notice about that age stat you threw out there was that Jordan was still at his peak during his early 30's. Kobe seems to haveslowed just a tad. I really think it's downhill from here, or maybe after next season. I could be wrong though.

 

[darth dnzy]

--This thread isnt locked yet?
--Kobe wont surpass MJ, cant surpass MJ and will never surpass MJ. End of story.

--IMO though, in terms of greatness, impact on the game of basketball, defining career and SHOES.. MJ > KB
--Buuut..in terms of raw skill with a basketball in his hands I will take KB over MJ.

 

[classy freshman]

Originally Posted by 651akathePaul

^ The biggest difference I notice about that age stat you threw out there was that Jordan was still at his peak during his early 30's. Kobe seems to have slowed just a tad. I really think it's downhill from here, or maybe after next season. I could be wrong though.

It could be argued that Kobe hasn't slowed down, but that he changed his game to maybe add some longevity to his career. There are still instances whereKobe will make really athletic plays to let you know he still has it. He doesn't rely on his athleticism like he used to though. He now has a great post upgame which is really effective and less physically demanding.

 

[651akathepaul]

^ That's very true, which is why I'm hesitant to be so quick to claim he's not in his prime anymore. What he may soon give up, or has given up, inathleticism he could very well make up for it with being savvy and involving others. Still too early to tell though.

 

[CP1708]

No, Kobe has certainly slowed. His jumps are not nearly the same and with the amount of games he's played since the age of 18, the amount of minutes, theplayoff games, the olympics this summer........he is certainly going to start slowing down a tad.

That said, he will simply change his game (again, like Mike) and become a more paced player. Kobe works as hard as anyone else does, he'll stay in shapeand keep going for another 4-5 years at a high level, but not this Kobe level. It's just nature.

MJ really really benefitted from those 2 years off playing baseball. He stayed in shape, but it lessened the wear and tear on his knees and what not. Thedude that said he coulda won 9 straight is dreaming, after the 4th or 5th year of 20 extra HARD fought playoff games, both MJ AND Pip would have broken downconsiderably. That's pure fact. Nobody will ever go 9 straight years of deep playoff runs without falling apart at some point, ESPECIALLY in their30's for Pete's sake.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Originally Posted by CP1708

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Originally Posted by CP1708

Osh Kosh Bosh wrote:


T-mac from 2000-2003 matches up with some of the all time greats, specifically 02-03 which is one of the greatest single individual seasons in NBA history and better than any of Kobe Bryant's seasons.

If things like this keep getting said, this thread will go downhill real fast.

Is what I am saying a stretch? Kobe Bryant is a better player and has had a better career but that year from T-Mac Stack up to anythig Kobe's ever done in a single season.


Ill keep it simple and post the normal numbers.

[table][tr][th=""]Season[/th] [th=""]Age[/th] [th=""]Tm[/th] [th=""]Lg[/th] [th=""]G[/th] [th=""]GS[/th] [th=""]MP[/th] [th=""]FG[/th] [th=""]FGA[/th] [th=""]FG%[/th] [th=""]3P[/th] [th=""]3PA[/th] [th=""]3P%[/th] [th=""]FT[/th] [th=""]FTA[/th] [th=""]FT%[/th] [th=""]ORB[/th] [th=""]DRB[/th] [th=""]TRB[/th] [th=""]AST[/th] [th=""]STL[/th] [th=""]BLK[/th] [th=""]TOV[/th] [th=""]PF[/th] [th=""]PTS[/th] [/tr][tr][td]2002-03[/td] [td]23[/td] [td]ORL[/td] [td]NBA[/td] [td]75[/td] [td]74[/td] [td]39.4[/td] [td]11.1[/td] [td]24.2[/td] [td].457[/td] [td]2.3[/td] [td]6.0[/td] [td].386[/td] [td]7.7[/td] [td]9.7[/td] [td].793[/td] [td]1.6[/td] [td]4.9[/td] [td]6.5[/td] [td]5.5[/td] [td]1.7[/td] [td]0.8[/td] [td]2.6[/td] [td]2.1[/td] [td]32.1[/td] [/tr][/table]
[table][tr][th=""]Season[/th] [th=""]Age[/th] [th=""]Tm[/th] [th=""]Lg[/th] [th=""]G[/th] [th=""]GS[/th] [th=""]MP[/th] [th=""]FG[/th] [th=""]FGA[/th] [th=""]FG%[/th] [th=""]3P[/th] [th=""]3PA[/th] [th=""]3P%[/th] [th=""]FT[/th] [th=""]FTA[/th] [th=""]FT%[/th] [th=""]ORB[/th] [th=""]DRB[/th] [th=""]TRB[/th] [th=""]AST[/th] [th=""]STL[/th] [th=""]BLK[/th] [th=""]TOV[/th] [th=""]PF[/th] [th=""]PTS[/th] [/tr][tr][td]2005-06[/td] [td]27[/td] [td]LAL[/td] [td]NBA[/td] [td]80[/td] [td]80[/td] [td]41.0[/td] [td]12.2[/td] [td]27.2[/td] [td].450[/td] [td]2.3[/td] [td]6.5[/td] [td].347[/td] [td]8.7[/td] [td]10.2[/td] [td].850[/td] [td]0.9[/td] [td]4.4[/td] [td]5.3[/td] [td]4.5[/td] [td]1.8[/td] [td]0.4[/td] [td]3.1[/td] [td]2.9[/td] [td]35.4[/td] [/tr][/table]
Tracy shot a better percentage, from 2 and 3, out rebounded, and got more assists than Kobe. On the defensive end Tracy danm near had a block a gamer and also turned the ball over less.

Osh, how bout you check Kobe's 02-03 season.

When he got 30 7 and 6 a game with 2 steals, 38 percent from 3, 84 from the stripe and 45 from the field.

Oh, and by the way, just in case you weren't sure, he put up those 30 and 7 with another guy on his team takin shots away, and boards too to the clip of about 28 and 10.

You said any Kobe season, I never said 05-06 now did I?

Oh I just assumed like everyone else I assumed you thought 05-06 was his best year.

[table][tr][th=""]Season[/th] [th=""]Age[/th] [th=""]Tm[/th] [th=""]Lg[/th] [th=""]G[/th] [th=""]GS[/th] [th=""]MP[/th] [th=""]FG[/th] [th=""]FGA[/th] [th=""]FG%[/th] [th=""]3P[/th] [th=""]3PA[/th] [th=""]3P%[/th] [th=""]FT[/th] [th=""]FTA[/th] [th=""]FT%[/th] [th=""]ORB[/th] [th=""]DRB[/th] [th=""]TRB[/th] [th=""]AST[/th] [th=""]STL[/th] [th=""]BLK[/th] [th=""]TOV[/th] [th=""]PF[/th] [th=""]PTS[/th] [/tr][tr][td]2002-03[/td] [td]24[/td] [td]LAL[/td] [td]NBA[/td] [td]82[/td] [td]82[/td] [td]41.5[/td] [td]10.6[/td] [td]23.5[/td] [td].451[/td] [td]1.5[/td] [td]4.0[/td] [td].383[/td] [td]7.3[/td] [td]8.7[/td] [td].843[/td] [td]1.3[/td] [td]5.6[/td] [td]6.9[/td] [td]5.9[/td] [td]2.2[/td] [td]0.8[/td] [td]3.5[/td] [td]2.7[/td] [td]30.0[/td] [/tr][/table]
[table][tr][td][/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Season[/th] [th=""]Age[/th] [th=""]Tm[/th] [th=""]Lg[/th] [th=""]G[/th] [th=""]GS[/th] [th=""]MP[/th] [th=""]FG[/th] [th=""]FGA[/th] [th=""]FG%[/th] [th=""]3P[/th] [th=""]3PA[/th] [th=""]3P%[/th] [th=""]FT[/th] [th=""]FTA[/th] [th=""]FT%[/th] [th=""]ORB[/th] [th=""]DRB[/th] [th=""]TRB[/th] [th=""]AST[/th] [th=""]STL[/th] [th=""]BLK[/th] [th=""]TOV[/th] [th=""]PF[/th] [th=""]PTS[/th] [/tr][tr][td]2002-03[/td] [td]23[/td] [td]ORL[/td] [td]NBA[/td] [td]75[/td] [td]74[/td] [td]39.4[/td] [td]11.1[/td] [td]24.2[/td] [td].457[/td] [td]2.3[/td] [td]6.0[/td] [td].386[/td] [td]7.7[/td] [td]9.7[/td] [td].793[/td] [td]1.6[/td] [td]4.9[/td] [td]6.5[/td] [td]5.5[/td] [td]1.7[/td] [td]0.8[/td] [td]2.6[/td] [td]2.1[/td] [td]32.1[/td] [/tr][/table]
But see the inate problem with regular NBA stats if you play more minutes you play more possession there fore more chances for points rebound assist. Thats whyit's better to use per minute or per possesion stats.

30% of those ++$*$+ magic players poionts were assisted by Tracy Mcgrady only 27% for Kobe.

9.5% of the Magics rebounds were pulled down by Tracy, 9.3% for Kobe (a career high)

8.4% of the Magics turnovers were comited by Tracy,(very low considering how much he handled the ball.) 11.4% for Kobe.

They played each other dead even as far as steals and blocks go.

In terms of scoring, for every 100 offensive possesions Kobe Bryant produce 111 points, Tracy was good for 116. Incredible consdering how many shots he wastaking.(Just as a comparison Jordan was good for 120+ every year)

While it's not a huge gap that one year by Tracy at the very least stacks up against anything Kobe has ever done.

Kobe is stil a better player though.

 

[xtapolapacetl]

Originally Posted by Classy Freshman

Kobe has a chance.

Mike won his first title when he was 29. Kobe has four at 30. Kobe has a great work ethic and always stays in great shape. His supporting cast is young. Kobe is going to make it interesting.

If you're talking about rings only, then yeah, I guess he has a chance. But it's hard to stay on top. Very hard. Every time someone wins achampionship, including last season's champs the Celtics, most times people think that that team has a great chance of repeating. The 98-99 Bulls was asobvious exception. But a lot can go wrong. KG injured and the Celtics went out. In 2002, a lot of people thought that the Lakers were set to win 7-8 (4-5 moreat that point) rings. Or at least a couple of more. But that didn't turn out to be the case.

Another thing... I am TIRED of Mike getting this GOD treatment.


Good that you can transfer this treatment to Kobe then.

 

[CP1708]

Blah blah with all those weird stats that don't mean nothin, Tracy played less minutes cuz he's soft and needs time off to recover sometimes.

And the minutes thing don't mean jack @#$% he took more shots a game then Kobe did and had the ball a lot more then Kobe did. He took more 3's, hetook more free throws. (per game basis)

And as I said it's a fact that Kobe put up those numbers with another guy on his team dominating the ball. TMac had no such person takin the ball fromhim. TMac isn't doin 30 7 6 with Shaq on his team. He did it with scrubs where he could jack up whenever he felt the need.

And what were his game total for the year? Like how many 40 point games, 50, 60 point games, triple doubles, things like that. What was his breakdown thatyear for those? I'm curious. (and too lazy to look them up myself.

)

 

[DownByLaw]

Originally Posted by Xtapolapacetl

Originally Posted by Classy Freshman

Another thing... I am TIRED of Mike getting this GOD treatment.

Good that you can transfer this treatment to Kobe then.

I am saying

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Originally Posted by CP1708


Blah blah with all those weird stats that don't mean nothin, Tracy played less minutes cuz he's soft and needs time off to recover sometimes.

And the minutes thing don't mean jack @#$% he took more shots a game then Kobe did and had the ball a lot more then Kobe did. He took more 3's, he took more free throws. (per game basis)

And as I said it's a fact that Kobe put up those numbers with another guy on his team dominating the ball. TMac had no such person takin the ball from him. TMac isn't doin 30 7 6 with Shaq on his team. He did it with scrubs where he could jack up whenever he felt the need.

And what were his game total for the year? Like how many 40 point games, 50, 60 point games, triple doubles, things like that. What was his breakdown that year for those? I'm curious. (and too lazy to look them up myself.

)

My numbers mean nothing but your are usddenly paramount. The fact that your denying T-mac 02-03 year stacks up to Kobe's baffling to me thewriting is on the wall he bested Kobe in every single aspect of the game that year.

You can't chalk it up to "T-mac is soft he needs rest sometimes" like your Tracy's psychologist or something. Kobe Jacked up shots wheneverhe wanted too in fact he used more possessions than that year Shaq, hence Shaq's complaining.


02-03 Tracy Macgrady was a more effecient offensive player than 02-03 Kobe Bryant.

 

[classy freshman]

Originally Posted by Xtapolapacetl

Originally Posted by Classy Freshman

Kobe has a chance.

Mike won his first title when he was 29. Kobe has four at 30. Kobe has a great work ethic and always stays in great shape. His supporting cast is young. Kobe is going to make it interesting.

If you're talking about rings only, then yeah, I guess he has a chance. But it's hard to stay on top. Very hard. Every time someone wins a championship, including last season's champs the Celtics, most times people think that that team has a great chance of repeating. The 98-99 Bulls was as obvious exception. But a lot can go wrong. KG injured and the Celtics went out. In 2002, a lot of people thought that the Lakers were set to win 7-8 (4-5 more at that point) rings. Or at least a couple of more. But that didn't turn out to be the case.

Another thing... I am TIRED of Mike getting this GOD treatment.

Good that you can transfer this treatment to Kobe then.

I am giving Kobe the God treatment? Hardly. All I said is that he has a chance. I didn't say he would do anything.

All of my posts were made objectively and not as a Kobe Bryant fan. .

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Originally Posted by CP1708


Blah blah with all those weird stats that don't mean nothin, Tracy played less minutes cuz he's soft and needs time off to recover sometimes.

And the minutes thing don't mean jack @#$% he took more shots a game then Kobe did and had the ball a lot more then Kobe did. He took more 3's, he took more free throws. (per game basis)

And as I said it's a fact that Kobe put up those numbers with another guy on his team dominating the ball. TMac had no such person takin the ball from him. TMac isn't doin 30 7 6 with Shaq on his team. He did it with scrubs where he could jack up whenever he felt the need.

And what were his game total for the year? Like how many 40 point games, 50, 60 point games, triple doubles, things like that. What was his breakdown that year for those? I'm curious. (and too lazy to look them up myself.

)

My numbers mean nothing but your are usddenly paramount. The fact that your denying T-mac 02-03 year stacks up to Kobe's baffling to me the writing is on the wall he bested Kobe in every single aspect of the game that year.

You can't chalk it up to "T-mac is soft he needs rest sometimes" like your Tracy's psychologist or something. Kobe Jacked up shots whenever he wanted too in fact he used more possessions than that year Shaq, hence Shaq's complaining.


02-03 Tracy Macgrady was a more effecient offensive player than 02-03 Kobe Bryant.

I still don't get it. When are you going to answer how a guy can put up "similar" numbers in an offense all by himself, compared to a guy whohas an equally dominant player beside him effectively taking the ball out of his hands?

Cuz your "stats" don't tell you anything?

Lemme ask you one more. In your per 100 possesions thing, how does that take into account the defense played against? In other words, how do those magicalstats speak for TMac played against teams in the East 4 times a year, Kobe 4 times in the West. I don't know which teams had the top D that year, wasjust wondering how it was factored.

Again, lemme know when you figure out how TMac would put them numbers up with another dude averagin 28 and 10. Thanks.

 

[jsindaa]

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Originally Posted by CP1708


Blah blah with all those weird stats that don't mean nothin, Tracy played less minutes cuz he's soft and needs time off to recover sometimes.

And the minutes thing don't mean jack @#$% he took more shots a game then Kobe did and had the ball a lot more then Kobe did. He took more 3's, he took more free throws. (per game basis)

And as I said it's a fact that Kobe put up those numbers with another guy on his team dominating the ball. TMac had no such person takin the ball from him. TMac isn't doin 30 7 6 with Shaq on his team. He did it with scrubs where he could jack up whenever he felt the need.

And what were his game total for the year? Like how many 40 point games, 50, 60 point games, triple doubles, things like that. What was his breakdown that year for those? I'm curious. (and too lazy to look them up myself.

)

My numbers mean nothing but your are usddenly paramount. The fact that your denying T-mac 02-03 year stacks up to Kobe's baffling to me the writing is on the wall he bested Kobe in every single aspect of the game that year.

You can't chalk it up to "T-mac is soft he needs rest sometimes" like your Tracy's psychologist or something. Kobe Jacked up shots whenever he wanted too in fact he used more possessions than that year Shaq, hence Shaq's complaining.


02-03 Tracy Macgrady was a more effecient offensive player than 02-03 Kobe Bryant.

I'm sorry do you realize that Kobe had Shaq on his team at the time?

 

[osh kosh bosh]

1. Unless their was a giant disparity in defensive teams, that kind of stuff evens out over 82 games.

2.[table][tr][th=""]Rk[/th] [th=""]Team[/th] [th=""]DRtg ▴[/th] [/tr][tr][td]1[/td] [td]New Jersey Nets*[/td] [td]98.1[/td] [/tr][tr][td]2[/td] [td]Sacramento Kings*[/td] [td]99.1[/td] [/tr][tr][td]3[/td] [td]San Antonio Spurs*[/td] [td]99.7[/td] [/tr][tr][td]4[/td] [td]Detroit Pistons*[/td] [td]99.9[/td] [/tr][tr][td]5[/td] [td]Indiana Pacers*[/td] [td]100.8[/td] [/tr][tr][td]6[/td] [td]Denver Nuggets[/td] [td]101.3[/td] [/tr][tr][td]7[/td] [td]New Orleans Hornets*[/td] [td]101.6[/td] [/tr][tr][td]8[/td] [td]Boston Celtics*[/td] [td]101.6[/td] [/tr][tr][td]9[/td] [td]Dallas Mavericks*[/td] [td]102.3[/td] [/tr][tr][td]10[/td] [td]Miami Heat[/td] [td]102.4[/td] [/tr][/table]
2. 6 out of the top 10 defensive teams in the league were eastern conference teams.

3. I don't see why it matters that Kobe played with Shaq, it seems to me Kobe should be more efficient if he played with Shaq, uet even with Shaq he useddanm near the same amount of possessions that Tracy used, yet Tracy was more efficient. Imagine if Tracy played with Shaq, he might be even more efficient. Iftracy was healthy and was on the Lakers I think the Lakers still win the same amount of championships.

If you play with a great player you should be more efficient than somebody who played with scrubs.

 

[CP1708]

Osh Kosh Bosh wrote:

---

1. Unless their was a giant disparity in defensive teams, that kind of stuff evens out over 82 games.

2. [table][tr][th=""]Rk[/th] [th=""]Team[/th] [th=""]DRtg ▴[/th] [/tr][tr][td]1[/td] [td]New Jersey Nets*[/td] [td]98.1[/td] [/tr][tr][td]2[/td] [td]Sacramento Kings*[/td] [td]99.1[/td] [/tr][tr][td]3[/td] [td]San Antonio Spurs*[/td] [td]99.7[/td] [/tr][tr][td]4[/td] [td]Detroit Pistons*[/td] [td]99.9[/td] [/tr][tr][td]5[/td] [td]Indiana Pacers*[/td] [td]100.8[/td] [/tr][tr][td]6[/td] [td]Denver Nuggets[/td] [td]101.3[/td] [/tr][tr][td]7[/td] [td]New Orleans Hornets*[/td] [td]101.6[/td] [/tr][tr][td]8[/td] [td]Boston Celtics*[/td] [td]101.6[/td] [/tr][tr][td]9[/td] [td]Dallas Mavericks*[/td] [td]102.3[/td] [/tr][tr][td]10[/td] [td]Miami Heat[/td] [td]102.4[/td] [/tr][/table]
2. 6 out of the top 10 defensive teams in the league were eastern conference teams.

3. I don't see why it matters that Kobe played with Shaq, it seems to me Kobe should be more efficient if he played with Shaq, uet even with Shaq he used danm near the same amount of possessions that Tracy used, yet Tracy was more efficient. Imagine if Tracy played with Shaq, he might be even more efficient. If tracy was healthy and was on the Lakers I think the Lakers still win the same amount of championships.

If you play with a great player you should be more efficient than somebody who played with scrubs.


Wait, stop.

Sacrememnto is #2 DEFENSE????

That doesn't raise any alarms toyou with all these crazy numbers? None whatsoever?
If that's true about the East, then I'm fine with that, but NO WAY Sac is on that list.

YOu friggin reachin now. Tracy is not even close, the Lakers don't even make it to the second round with McGrady. You just pushin buttons now.

What do you mean "used" near the same amount of possesions? What does that mean? You talkin about shot attempts, or what are you sayin there?
And efficient is not the same as production. Mac's numbers go down if he played with a guy who had the ball more. Point blank. Unless you're goingto come up with some Hollinger formula to say otherwise. Still won't matter, trying to put Mac in the same category is ridiculous. (and I do not mean todiscredit Mac's season at all, he was brilliant sure, but he is no where in the discussion of elite, he was simply great that year and that's it.)

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Originally Posted by CP1708

Osh Kosh Bosh wrote:

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1. Unless their was a giant disparity in defensive teams, that kind of stuff evens out over 82 games.

2. [table][tr][th=""]Rk[/th] [th=""]Team[/th] [th=""]DRtg ▴[/th] [/tr][tr][td]1[/td] [td]New Jersey Nets*[/td] [td]98.1[/td] [/tr][tr][td]2[/td] [td]Sacramento Kings*[/td] [td]99.1[/td] [/tr][tr][td]3[/td] [td]San Antonio Spurs*[/td] [td]99.7[/td] [/tr][tr][td]4[/td] [td]Detroit Pistons*[/td] [td]99.9[/td] [/tr][tr][td]5[/td] [td]Indiana Pacers*[/td] [td]100.8[/td] [/tr][tr][td]6[/td] [td]Denver Nuggets[/td] [td]101.3[/td] [/tr][tr][td]7[/td] [td]New Orleans Hornets*[/td] [td]101.6[/td] [/tr][tr][td]8[/td] [td]Boston Celtics*[/td] [td]101.6[/td] [/tr][tr][td]9[/td] [td]Dallas Mavericks*[/td] [td]102.3[/td] [/tr][tr][td]10[/td] [td]Miami Heat[/td] [td]102.4[/td] [/tr][/table]
2. 6 out of the top 10 defensive teams in the league were eastern conference teams.

3. I don't see why it matters that Kobe played with Shaq, it seems to me Kobe should be more efficient if he played with Shaq, uet even with Shaq he used danm near the same amount of possessions that Tracy used, yet Tracy was more efficient. Imagine if Tracy played with Shaq, he might be even more efficient. If tracy was healthy and was on the Lakers I think the Lakers still win the same amount of championships.

If you play with a great player you should be more efficient than somebody who played with scrubs.

Wait, stop.

Sacrememnto is #2 DEFENSE????

That doesn't raise any alarms to you with all these crazy numbers? None whatsoever?
If that's true about the East, then I'm fine with that, but NO WAY Sac is on that list.

YOu friggin reachin now. Tracy is not even close, the Lakers don't even make it to the second round with McGrady. You just pushin buttons now.

What do you mean "used" near the same amount of possesions? What does that mean? You talkin about shot attempts, or what are you sayin there?
And efficient is not the same as production. Mac's numbers go down if he played with a guy who had the ball more. Point blank. Unless you're going to come up with some Hollinger formula to say otherwise. Still won't matter, trying to put Mac in the same category is ridiculous. (and I do not mean to discredit Mac's season at all, he was brilliant sure, but he is no where in the discussion of elite, he was simply great that year and that's it.)

My point one incredible year that stacks up to any Kobe's years. Efficency>Volume.

Basketball Reference tracks the amount of possesions a player "uses" Kobe used 33% of his teams possesions, Shaq use 32%, Tracy used 35%.

Sacramento #1 defneses surprises people becuase they had a reputation that they were a bad defensive team. Reputation=/=reality.
The Sacarmento kings ran the fastest offense in the league, thus there opponents got more possessions and more opportunities to score. Despite the fact thereoffense was the fastest in the league they still were only 13th in points allowed.

Throw the numbers away, when you have Vlade Divacs on of the better defensive C's when he was in the league, Chris Webber one of the best defensivePF's in the league, Doug Christie one of the best permiter defenders in the league and Keon Clark and Bobby Jackson comming off the bench (two gooddefensive players.) you are going to get some stops. Beucase they ran this Uptempo system people

In then end baseball is about how you manage 27 outs basketball is how you manage the possesions in a game. Looking at pure volume never tells the wholestory.

 

[al3xis]

these stats have credence, yall will come around soon enough

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by Al3xis

these stats have credence, yall will come around soon enough