Has Allen Iverson's career been underrated?
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by nimfh,
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Above all the kobe vs. iverson talk, the main problem i have with this thread is that people are coming in here acting like Iverson really wasn't thatgreat at a certain point in his career.
sure, it's easy to say now that he's this and he's that...but really, Iverson wasn't great??? Like Iverson really can't be compared toKobe, and some of the other great players in NBA history??? I don't get it. You guys must a. all have amnesia, b. be about 10, or c. a combination ofboth..
To picture how good Iverson was, imagine being 6-7 inches shorter than everyone at your local park. You're playing a pick up game with these guys, who arealso ALL VERY GOOD PLAYERS. Now, imagine just dominating these clowns...yep, it's a lot harder than it sounds. Now picture Allen Iverson...and that'swhat he did.
sure, it's easy to say now that he's this and he's that...but really, Iverson wasn't great??? Like Iverson really can't be compared toKobe, and some of the other great players in NBA history??? I don't get it. You guys must a. all have amnesia, b. be about 10, or c. a combination ofboth..
To picture how good Iverson was, imagine being 6-7 inches shorter than everyone at your local park. You're playing a pick up game with these guys, who arealso ALL VERY GOOD PLAYERS. Now, imagine just dominating these clowns...yep, it's a lot harder than it sounds. Now picture Allen Iverson...and that'swhat he did.
What is it with the "Oh poor AI is short" @#$%^%$#? Who gives a @#$%?
I guess Shaq wasn't really that good cuz he was tall then.
Manute Bol must be the best player ever.
Now you can classify them differently becasue of their size, AI and Shaq don't belong in the same category, sure, but give me a @#$%^% break with AI wasshort, he's so little, he's great cuz he's not tall. @#$%.
AI was certainly a great player. NOBODY is saying he wasn't. But that doesn't mean people can't dissect his game. Jesus Christ. His game hadflaws. That's it, period, his game had flaws. People are commenting on them. We know he was great. We ALL GET IT.
God damn.
Now, carry on and relax with tellin us how tall AI was. We're smart people, we know.
I guess Shaq wasn't really that good cuz he was tall then.
Manute Bol must be the best player ever.
Now you can classify them differently becasue of their size, AI and Shaq don't belong in the same category, sure, but give me a @#$%^% break with AI wasshort, he's so little, he's great cuz he's not tall. @#$%.
AI was certainly a great player. NOBODY is saying he wasn't. But that doesn't mean people can't dissect his game. Jesus Christ. His game hadflaws. That's it, period, his game had flaws. People are commenting on them. We know he was great. We ALL GET IT.
God damn.
Now, carry on and relax with tellin us how tall AI was. We're smart people, we know.
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You must have skipped about 3-4 pages of this thread then.
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iverson was a great player but that "practice" will forever scar him as selfish
im not you
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Ehh...I'm tired of talking about AI on here...bunch of nonsense being said from all viewpoints.
Let me just say that AI will forever remain one of my favorite athletes of all time. He's part of the reason I wanted to go to Georgetown all my life(Victor Page being the other reason). Beyond basketball, I have nothing but admiration and respect for him. There are alot of people with rags to riches storybut I've had the opportunity to really hear some of the ins and outs of his situation from people close to his situation down in VA...and to even be"Allen Iverson" right now is remarkable after the %*%% he was dealt. In alot of ways...everything wrong with AI right now...is the reason he IS AIright now so it's kind of a gift and a curse. I didn't like where his legacy was going the minute he left Philly because I thought he should haveretired there but regardless...nothing can take away what he's accomplished and he is no doubt a HOF'er off of Individual accolades alone.
Let me just say that AI will forever remain one of my favorite athletes of all time. He's part of the reason I wanted to go to Georgetown all my life(Victor Page being the other reason). Beyond basketball, I have nothing but admiration and respect for him. There are alot of people with rags to riches storybut I've had the opportunity to really hear some of the ins and outs of his situation from people close to his situation down in VA...and to even be"Allen Iverson" right now is remarkable after the %*%% he was dealt. In alot of ways...everything wrong with AI right now...is the reason he IS AIright now so it's kind of a gift and a curse. I didn't like where his legacy was going the minute he left Philly because I thought he should haveretired there but regardless...nothing can take away what he's accomplished and he is no doubt a HOF'er off of Individual accolades alone.
lilstarz07
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i like how people just dismiss the argument that ais skill is better than that of kobe ... and yet those same people bash ai for not being a practice playerand never living up to his potential because of his work ethic ... which makes completely no sense lol ...
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Word, I think people are confusing talent with skill. That's like saying Michael Vick is a more skilled quarterback than say, Brett Favre. He may have had more natural talent, but lacked much of Favre's skill.
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I'd agree. Prolly had more talent than Kobe, but Kobe took his talent and honed it into greater skills.
Still, none of that is the key reason for me not liking Iverson. Sure he was supremely talented. Great player absolutely. The problem is, basketball is ateam sport. Iverson was a great player, but his game is definitely skewed towards individual success over team success. He was so great, that Larry Brown wasable to surround him with enough supporting pieces to get them to the Finals. I applaud that success but I still don't think his style of play should beemulated or even praised really. Kobe was heading down the Iverson path like many other players, but something clicked and he finally got it. And no, Idon't think AI was a better defensive player than Kobe.
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let me break it down even simpler than i've already done ....... There are numerous/(plenty or a lot ) of posts stating that he basicallydribbles out the shot clock and tosses up bad shots ........ Now what you highlighted if you take it in context ..... again let me break it down even simpler...... say pg A . his role is to drive to the basket and create shots for his teamates you could say that he does nothing but dribble out the clock but thatwould be false given the context of the game and his role ...... Now in Denver and in pre- Larry Brown Philly there were no set plays for Iverson to get hisshot or set up his teamates, so a large part of his game hinged on using the dribble to break down defenses and set up either a makeable shot for himself orhis open teamates ... whereas the local NT hater/comic will change this to and I roughly qoute " pounding the ball for 20secs and tossing up badshots" ..... Now if one was too think for themself, play a little bit of basketball and have a BBall IQ above that of a rock you could figure out how bothstatements are not the same
gabe gotti
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A.I. was the truth.
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hahahhahahahahahahah at durden7 saying ai is not a "great player". How many gm's, coaches, ex-nbaers and current nbaers do you think would agreewiht you on that durden?
hell if you up for it i will make a thread and have a formal debate with you over whether AI is a great player. Post for post.
ahhahahahah
hell if you up for it i will make a thread and have a formal debate with you over whether AI is a great player. Post for post.
ahhahahahah
You're clearly speakin on my quotes, so please, are you sayin to me right here that AI DOESN"T dribble the ball for 20 seconds and then fire up offbalanced shots? This doesn't happen? My IQ is too low, I couldn't possibly have seen that a billion times? Please go on record with that. Break itdown real simple for me.
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Got a happy trigger with the H's and A's?
The opinions on gm's, coaches, etc. mean nothing to me. Their thoughts are their thoughts.
TO ME, Iverson is not a "great" player. There are many players who are/were better than he is. If you consider him great, then what do you call theplayers who are levels above him?
Thats what no one is understanding from what im saying. If he's GREAT, what was Jordan? Magic? Russel? Iverson isnt lumped together with them so theymust have a term thats better than great.
Iverson might be exatly rated where he should be, but the idea of the thread was questioning if he was "underrated". A much better case can be made that hes overrated than underrated. I have no issue with saying he was very good, but certainly heisnt underrated and to me he's overrated. I would never want a player like him on my team......... but thats me.
Why would I be up for a thread debating this topic? Isnt this thread the exact thing youre suggesting? Also, I donteven recall me commenting on something youve said in this post, so why do you think id make a special debate just for you?
Iverson was a very good player, carried the 00-01 team on his back to the finals, had the potential to be soo much better than he was but failed to realizewhat he had.
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those guys are legends.... AI was a great player
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Hmmmm....
Yeah, I live with that answer.
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Pound for pound why isn't Jordan better than Iverson?
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Some in this thread fell of their rockers.
More skill than Kobe and MJ?
Pound for pound the GOAT?
More arsenal than Kobe?
The best thing I read was the Legends compared to great players quote. Off topic to me, Legends should be in the HOF, great players nah. Or at least show howthey separate.
More skill than Kobe and MJ?
Pound for pound the GOAT?
More arsenal than Kobe?
The best thing I read was the Legends compared to great players quote. Off topic to me, Legends should be in the HOF, great players nah. Or at least show howthey separate.
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I agree that Iverson is underrated, and imo I think most people do it because he hasn't won a title. Everytime I hear thisI think when in his career did he ever have a chance to win a title?? Every nba season they're probably 4 or 5 teams that have legitimate chances towin a title and AI has never been on one of those teams.
You can be the best player in the world, but if don't have the talent around you, you can't win a title in the NBA. Inorder to win titles in the NBA a team has to have at least 2 all-nba players or have an ALL-nba big man. Name me one team that has won in title in thelast 20 years that doesn't meet this criteria??? Now how many times has AI has played with one of those?? Only twice that I can think of and that was inPhilly with Mutombo and in Denver with Melo/Camby. One of those season he took them to the finals against arguably one of the most dominant duo's of alltime in Kobe and Shaq.
People act like AI's teams were always at the bottom of the league. AI usually got his team to the playoffs every year, but to expect him to carry one ofthose teams to a title is unrealistic.
AI is a first ballot hall of famer and one of the greatest players to ever play the game and one of the top 5 shooting guardsto ever play this game, but because he hasn't been lucky enough to play with championship caliber talent besides maybe once he will never get his duecredit by most.
You can be the best player in the world, but if don't have the talent around you, you can't win a title in the NBA. Inorder to win titles in the NBA a team has to have at least 2 all-nba players or have an ALL-nba big man. Name me one team that has won in title in thelast 20 years that doesn't meet this criteria??? Now how many times has AI has played with one of those?? Only twice that I can think of and that was inPhilly with Mutombo and in Denver with Melo/Camby. One of those season he took them to the finals against arguably one of the most dominant duo's of alltime in Kobe and Shaq.
People act like AI's teams were always at the bottom of the league. AI usually got his team to the playoffs every year, but to expect him to carry one ofthose teams to a title is unrealistic.
AI is a first ballot hall of famer and one of the greatest players to ever play the game and one of the top 5 shooting guardsto ever play this game, but because he hasn't been lucky enough to play with championship caliber talent besides maybe once he will never get his duecredit by most.
^
Jerry Stackhouse was a pretty good YOUNG star, Philly gave him away. Ever ask yourself why that was?
Why couldn't teams pair AI with another great player? Lack of trying.......or something else???????
(Melo was too young still for that pairing, and when he started to mature, they had to rid themselves of AI, instead of the other way around)
Maybe someday, people will figure that out.
Jerry Stackhouse was a pretty good YOUNG star, Philly gave him away. Ever ask yourself why that was?
Why couldn't teams pair AI with another great player? Lack of trying.......or something else???????
(Melo was too young still for that pairing, and when he started to mature, they had to rid themselves of AI, instead of the other way around)
Maybe someday, people will figure that out.
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To me the Stackhouse argument is a bad one because he was not an All-nba player and has NEVER been one. If Stackhouse had gone on elsewhere andexploded sure I would buy that argument, but he hasn't. Yea he's been a good player in the league, but not an elite player like you need.Originally Posted by CP1708
^
Jerry Stackhouse was a pretty good YOUNG star, Philly gave him away. Ever ask yourself why that was?
Why couldn't teams pair AI with another great player? Lack of trying.......or something else???????
(Melo was too young still for that pairing, and when he started to mature, they had to rid themselves of AI, instead of the other way around)
Maybe someday, people will figure that out.
Of course Denver is going to get rid of AI instead of Melo. AI was 33 yrs old and Melo was 24. What sense would that make???
I'm not understanding what your are saying in ur 2nd point?? Are you saying that Philly tried to get elite playerson the sixers with AI, but he didn't want them there or the other players didn't want to go to philly and play with AI?? If that's what your sayingto me that bs..
MVP
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CP may be right on that last part...you never heard of people or other stars lining up saying they wanted to play with AI or would want him on their team evenwhen he was in his prime, like they do now for Bron, Kobe, and Wade...maybe there was a reason that he was surrounded by scrubs most of his career and whyPhilly was willing to get rid of him when he was still scoring 30 a game, but Iggy started to show flashes that he could be a really good player.
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If you like street ball then he was amazing. If you prefer to win championships or build a winning team he isn't the guy for your team. Ask every GM thathas not called his agent to sign him yet this year.
You smarter than all of them? Please say yes...
Bottom line is most people on here are arguing their point not trying to see the point of the other side. You either like him or you don't. Does he havegreat skill, yes as does every all star in the NBA, is he a great player? If you use the term loosely then yeah I can see someone making their case. Greatnessis different to everyone, peoples standards are so low now a days lol.
But let's not forget the title of the thread, Is his career underrated? I would say no, he has been given enough credit for his contributions. Your skillwill only take you so far, meaning, you can have an attitude when you are one of the best in the league but when you get older and you are no longer that guy,you'd better change that attitude. Or you can "keep it real" and not have a job haha.
You smarter than all of them? Please say yes...
Bottom line is most people on here are arguing their point not trying to see the point of the other side. You either like him or you don't. Does he havegreat skill, yes as does every all star in the NBA, is he a great player? If you use the term loosely then yeah I can see someone making their case. Greatnessis different to everyone, peoples standards are so low now a days lol.
But let's not forget the title of the thread, Is his career underrated? I would say no, he has been given enough credit for his contributions. Your skillwill only take you so far, meaning, you can have an attitude when you are one of the best in the league but when you get older and you are no longer that guy,you'd better change that attitude. Or you can "keep it real" and not have a job haha.
They shipped Stack why? Weren't there rumors of them having trouble being effective together?
Why was he finally moved from Philly? To feature AI2 right?
Why did Denver finally move Iverson? They realized it wasn't working with him and Melo, correct?
Anyone ever heard how C-Webb talks about his time in Philly?
He'snot exactly glowing when he talks about that tenure. Anyone ever listen to what Eric Snow says about his time there?
And yes, I was getting at all of these players talked about how they respected AI, and how hard he worked, and what a warrior he was, but NONE of them everwent to go play with him.
So I am asking, why? Can one not read between the lines just a little? Is it really that far fetched?
And for the record, I'm not stating this as it's a fact and this is what happened, I'm asking people to think and try to remember stories they haveheard. You'll notice I used C-Webb and Snow, both of whom are on NBATV pretty regularly now.
Why was he finally moved from Philly? To feature AI2 right?
Why did Denver finally move Iverson? They realized it wasn't working with him and Melo, correct?
Anyone ever heard how C-Webb talks about his time in Philly?
And yes, I was getting at all of these players talked about how they respected AI, and how hard he worked, and what a warrior he was, but NONE of them everwent to go play with him.
So I am asking, why? Can one not read between the lines just a little? Is it really that far fetched?
And for the record, I'm not stating this as it's a fact and this is what happened, I'm asking people to think and try to remember stories they haveheard. You'll notice I used C-Webb and Snow, both of whom are on NBATV pretty regularly now.
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I've heard what CWebb said. When he said you have to be a robot to play with AI or whatever, but Weber was a shell of himself by the time hegot to Philly, because of all the injuries. I've never heard what Snow said, but I'm guessing its something similar. I'm not denying AI has neverplayed with any good players. I'm saying he's never had a chance to play with any elite players so its unfair for people to bash him for not winning atitle.Originally Posted by CP1708
They shipped Stack why? Weren't there rumors of them having trouble being effective together?
Why was he finally moved from Philly? To feature AI2 right?
Why did Denver finally move Iverson? They realized it wasn't working with him and Melo, correct?
Anyone ever heard how C-Webb talks about his time in Philly?He's not exactly glowing when he talks about that tenure. Anyone ever listen to what Eric Snow says about his time there?
And yes, I was getting at all of these players talked about how they respected AI, and how hard he worked, and what a warrior he was, but NONE of them ever went to go play with him.
So I am asking, why? Can one not read between the lines just a little? Is it really that far fetched?
And for the record, I'm not stating this as it's a fact and this is what happened, I'm asking people to think and try to remember stories they have heard. You'll notice I used C-Webb and Snow, both of whom are on NBATV pretty regularly now.
I've never heard of players saying they didnt want to play with AI back when he was in Philly (obviously now some dont). IMO great players want to playwith other great players, and AI was a great player in philly, so it's hard for me to imagine players saying they didn't want to play with AI.