I WANT TO ENCOURAGE A MORE CONSTRUCTIVE DISCUSSION OVER RACE RELATIONS ON NT

[ksteezy]

Lucky already explained it to you, you keep bringing up how things works outside the USA, when that's not up for the discussion, we are talking about the way it goes here in America.

 

[luckyluchiano]

The concept of race in general is idiotic, but unfortunately it is reality and has had VERY REAL consequences for many people. We can get rid of race when racism and colorism doesn't exist. Look at the video I posted, prime example of the physical and mental genocide that led to the mentality of people like ninjahood. Many of these countries started out as majority black slaves and natives. The Natives and blacks were systematically erased in places like Argentina.

Of Course I`m the last person to be on that "I dont see Race stuff" because unfortunately it exists and you have to be aware of it in this day and age. I`m just saying we are arguing over idiotic concepts created by people who wanted to justify enslaving and wiping out our ancestors.

 

[Master Zik]

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

Aight well I know who's back I ain't got if **** goes down. Ol "we good over here" selfish muh *******.

Born alone die alone b.

That whole African American = black is ya leaders fault

Go blame Jessie Jackson

African-American' Favored By Many of America's Blacks
By ISABEL WILKERSON, Special to the New York Times
Published: January 31, 1989
FACEBOOK
TWITTER
GOOGLE+
EMAIL
SHARE
PRINT
REPRINTS
CHICAGO, Jan. 30— A movement led by the Rev. Jesse Jackson to call blacks African-Americans has met with both rousing approval and deep-seated skepticism in a debate that is coming to symbolize the role and history of blacks in this country.

The term, used for years in intellectual circles, is gaining currency among many other blacks, who say its use is a sign that they are accepting their difficult past and resolving a long ambivalence toward Africa.

The term has already shown up in the newest grade-school textbooks, been adopted by several black-run radio stations and newspapers around the country and appeared in the titles of popular books and in the conversations of many blacks as they warm to the idea and speak of visiting Africa one day.

For many, the issue is already settled, not only in their minds but in their hearts. ''Whenever I go to Africa,'' said Roger Wilkins, a senior fellow at the Institute for Policy Studies, ''I feel like a person with a legitimate place to stand on this earth. This is the name for all the feelings I've had all these years.''

Mr. Wilkins's feelings are not shared by all. Skeptics, many of them older blacks who have lived through previous name changes, are resisting the move. Some say they do not identify with Africa and resent prominent blacks telling them what to be called. Others fear that the debate over a new name draws attention away from problems like unemployment and drug abuse.

Leaders of the movement to change the language say it was concern about those problems and growing involvement in the fight to end racial separation in South Africa that led to the search for a clearer group identity.

They say they want to shift the definition of the group from the racial description black to a cultural and ethnic identity that ties the group to its continent of origin and fosters dignity and self-esteem.

''This is deeper than just name recognition,'' said Mr. Jackson who, along with others, called for the change at a news conference in late December. ''Black tells you about skin color and what side of town you live on. African-American evokes discussion of the world.''

Few people who favor the new term expect to see it replace ''black'' entirely, although they would like it to be the principal reference eventually. For now, there does not seem to be the distaste toward ''black'' that many felt toward ''Negro'' or ''colored'' two decades ago. Instead, there is a feeling that ''African-American'' can sometimes convey a significance that ''black'' cannot.

The debate among blacks comes at a time when other minority groups are also struggling toward redefinition. In recent months, Jews here and in Israel have been torn over the question ''who is a Jew?'' Hispanic Americans have grappled with the use of Latino and Hispanic. And Asian-Americans, seeking recognition of their many nationalities, have successfully lobbied the Census Bureau to delineate Asian groups in the 1990 census, even listing Samoans and Guamanians.

The push for a change from ''black'' to ''African-American'' came too late to become a category in the 1990 census, said Nampeo McKenney, director of the agency's special populations division. The form will say ''Black or Negro'' in the section on race. But in light of growing pressure, the agency is adding special instructions telling those filling out the forms that ''Black or Negro includes African-Americans.'' The term African-American cannot be used officially until the agency tests it in a process that takes several years, she said. Turning Point Is Seen

Still, the push by Mr. Jackson is seen by black historians as an important step. ''This is a significant psychological and cultural turning point,'' said Dr. Walter Allen, a professor of sociology at the University of Michigan who is black. ''This makes explicit what was implicit. First we had to convince everyone to come into the fold as black. Now we are clarifying what that means.''

Dr. Ramona Edelin, president of the National Urban Coalition, said: ''There were bitter battles when we went from 'Negro' to 'black.' We don't want that this time.'' Dr. Edelin said that when she brought up the idea for adopting the term African-American at a meeting of 75 black groups convened by Mr. Jackson late last month, there was ''overwhelming consensus'' favoring the change. The meeting attracted scores of people from fraternities, sororities and civic and social groups.

Several school districts, including Atlanta and Chicago, have adopted the term in their curriculums and encourage teachers to use it. ''We just feel it's a more accurate term,'' said Dr. Alice Jurica, director of social studies for the Chicago public schools.

Two of the largest black-oriented radio stations in New York City, WWRL and WLIB, have been using the term. Now more listeners who call in refer to themselves as African-Americans, although once they get going they often slip back to using black, said David Lampel, WLIB program director. ''Often they will use black and African-American in the same phone call,'' he said. Changes in the Press

The heightened awareness has brought a bit of confusion. The station recently broadcast a report that referred to a woman with a dark complexion and a Hispanic surname. ''Everybody in the newsroom was struggling with what to call her,'' Mr. Lampel said. ''They decided on African-Latino.''

Several black newspapers, like The Amsterdam News in New York and The Chicago Daily Defender, are now changing their usage rules to accommodate the new term, to the delight of black editors like J. Lowell Ware of The Atlanta Voice, who replaced ''black'' with ''African-American'' 10 years ago.

'' 'Black' just never looked right to me,'' Mr. Ware said. '' 'Black' does not define a race of people. It's a color. It's an adjective, not a noun. And a long time before it was accepted, it was not accepted. It was one word we couldn't stomach from anyone. I just couldn't stand it anymore, so I changed it.''

Editors in mainstream journalism, including The Associated Press and The New York Times, said they had made no decision on the term. ''We're waiting to see how usage develops among writers and speakers generally,'' said Allan M. Siegal, assistant managing editor of The New York Times, which uses black ordinarily and African-American in references to advocacy of the term. Dictionary Editors Cautious

Similarly, editors of the major dictionaries said they were reserving judgment. ''We would have to see a preponderance of citations to make such a drastic change,'' said Eugene Schewmaker, senior editor of Random House dictionaries.

The question of a name has caused pain and controversy since the first Africans were captured and shipped to the Americas in the 17th century. The slaves called themselves Africans at first, but slave masters gave them English names and called them Negroes, the Portuguese word for black, historians say. That term was resented by some blacks who said it was degrading when whites mispronounced it, accidentally or intentionally.

The term African-American has had several incarnations in previous years, with ''Afro-American'' having spurts of popularity since the late 19th century and particularly in the 1960's. But supporters of the current movement find fault with that usage. ''We came from Africa,'' said Dr. Olive Taylor, a professor of history at Howard University. ''We didn't come from 'Afro.' ''

Arthur Ashe decided to use the term in his new book, ''A Hard Road to Glory: A History of the African-American Athlete,'' published late last year by Amistad-Warner. ''It was given a great deal of thought; it was definitely not going to be 'black,' '' the tennis player said. '' 'African-American' is much more appropriate and correct than 'Afro-American' or 'black' or any other alternative. And I didn't want to leave the wrong impression with something so permanent as a book.''

Now others are getting accustomed to the term. Hilda Whittington, a Chicago lawyer, has been calling herself an African-American since Mr. Jackson's remarks last month and is now planning a trip to West Africa next year. ''After thinking about it, I kind of like it,'' Mrs. Whittington said. ''We should call ourselves African-Americans and get it over with. This is it for me.''

But not for everyone. ''When did they take a vote on what blacks wanted to be called?'' C. Hutherson, a black Chicagoan, asked in a letter to The Chicago Sun-Times. ''They must have done it while I was asleep. Jesse Jackson and other black leaders have a lot of nerve speaking for all blacks.'' 'I Want to Stay Black'

In a recent discussion in Eva Brown's sophomore history class at Chicago's Kenmore Academy, several students were suspicious of the term. ''I want to stay black,'' said Madonna Cliff, who is 16 years old.

Nor should blacks see changing a name as a panacea, many say. ''This doesn't mean that everything will be wonderful and all the poor people will get taken care of,'' said Mary Frances Berry, a professor of history at the University of Pennsylvania who is a member of United States Civil Rights Commission.

''But with the devastating problems in the community now, building self-esteem can't be all bad,'' said Professor Berry, who is black. ''It's not going to make things worse.''

Now a term that was once considered militant is going mainstream. '' 'African-American' reflects a post-modern black consciousness,'' said Dr. Roderick Watts, an assistant professor of psychology at Yale University, who last year founded a community group with the name the Association of Agencies Serving African-Americans. ''It has a self-affirming quality that seems to fit right now.''

http://www.nytimes.com/1989/01/31/u...-many-of-america-s-blacks.html?pagewanted=all

Seems ya got a historical wrong to write.. [emoji]128133[/emoji]

you don't bat an eye associating non latino, non african american black person AS african american ("ya leaders") but let someone dare do that to you.

-Me: I'm black but I'm West Indian. Not all black people in America are "African Americans"

Ninja: Nah b, in America you is African American, it mean the same thing as black

-Me: Brah you're black and Latino. You can be both at the same time

Ninja: Nah be, I'm in no way black, why you denying me my culture, da census, da MLB, da dispora. I just want to identify as Latino

Me: Ok brah cool, that's your choice, I respect that. Does that mean you gonna acknowledge that I'm a black West Indian, not African America?

Ninja: Nah b, Da psychologist say to African America mean black. So imma rock wit that

Steezy: HOW DARE YOU SAY THAT TO NINJA, well not "you", BUT YOU

PERFECT SUMMATION of the recent pgs

Dude called me salty I asked him if he's black until 2020 since everything is about da census and he goes ghost on that question.

 

[luckyluchiano]

Funny cause ninja keeps bringing up how in Latin America we don't do race. He subscribes to how things are done in his country which is FALSE. The concept of race in the U.S.A. just takes different forms in South America.....when people like him come here he tries to pretend like it doesn't exist.


Again

Genocide, racism, colorism....very real consequences of said mentality.

I cant speak for DR but in Latin America I know for a fact they do the Ethnic thing in which they essentially group people based on Ancestry to certain Ethnic groups with certain groups being higher on the social totem pole than others. My moms lived in Brazil for a yr and saw it first hand. So it all boils down to "using the right words" to describe the same thing.

 

[ksteezy]

I cant speak for DR but in Latin America I know for a fact they do the Ethnic thing in which they essentially group people based on Ancestry to certain Ethnic groups with certain groups being higher on the social totem pole than others. My moms lived in Brazil for a yr and saw it first hand. So it all boils down to "using the right words" to describe the same thing.

And another rep

 

[ninjahood]

I cant speak for DR but in Latin America I know for a fact they do the Ethnic thing in which they essentially group people based on Ancestry to certain Ethnic groups with certain groups being higher on the social totem pole than others. My moms lived in Brazil for a yr and saw it first hand. So it all boils down to "using the right words" to describe the same thing.

And another rep

Its quiet for duke [emoji]128514[/emoji][emoji]128514[/emoji]

 

[-Red-]

I cant speak for DR but in Latin America I know for a fact they do the Ethnic thing in which they essentially group people based on Ancestry to certain Ethnic groups with certain groups being higher on the social totem pole than others. My moms lived in Brazil for a yr and saw it first hand. So it all boils down to "using the right words" to describe the same thing.

And another rep

Its quiet for duke [emoji]128514[/emoji][emoji]128514[/emoji]

Y'all do realize that this statement actually contradicts you guys' claims of Latin American colorblindness right?

 

[luckyluchiano]

It all boils down to "technically speaking " vs "Conceptually speaking"

Ninjas arguments are based on what is Technically going on in Latin America and how they are grouped in America even though Conceptually he may have fellow "country men" where if they were in the DR they may have some sort of ethnic beef or conflict, but TECHNICALLY in the USA they are both "Latino". It boils down to who makes the rules of the land. Ninja cant deny he has an African Ancestor but "Technically" the concept of Race doesnt "exist" in many Latin American countries so then you have to tackle the beast of "Ethnicity" and the rules created for their Land.

Its pretty much how it was in New Orleans where you had Creoles and you had Negros but either way to a white person y'all still aint white lol.

Like I said before all this Race stuff is Jedi Mind tricks because you have dark skin people in Ethiopia who are legally considered Caucasians even though "Racially" in America Caucasian = White.

Nobody is really "wrong" people just arent using the right words thus you have people arguing things that arent related in a sense.

 

[luckyluchiano]

Brazil for Ex
View media item 2002594
So this is why if you play by the rules of Latin America you have the "I`m not Black I`m this" which by their rules they are correct, but in the unwritten rules of America you just black with wavy hair lol.

 

[ksteezy]

Y'all do realize that this statement actually contradicts you guys' claims of Latin American colorblindness right?

Nobody claimed Latin America suffers from color blindness...

 

[-Red-]

Y'all do realize that this statement actually contradicts you guys' claims of Latin American colorblindness right?

Nobody claimed Latin America suffers from color blindness...

So you agree with Lucky's statement that Latin American countries are socially stratified on the basis of skin color?

 

[ksteezy]

So you agree with Lucky's statement that Latin American countries are socially stratified on the basis of skin color?

I never disagreed with that....from the jump I've made it clear that my argument is within the USA and how we identify HERE....how we identify in our homelands is a completely different dynamic.

 

[ninjahood]

Y'all do realize that this statement actually contradicts you guys' claims of Latin American colorblindness right?

Nobody claimed Latin America suffers from color blindness...

So you agree with Lucky's statement that Latin American countries are socially stratified on the basis of skin color?

Thats not what he said.

Ethnicity conquers all on DR..a light skinned Dominican isn't given preferential treatment over a dark skinned Dominican on da basis of appearance, we're all latino/Hispanic... Social status or class aka $$$ is what moves da needle out there.

 

[luckyluchiano]

The closest example in America of how Latin America works would probably be Lousiana back in the day with Mulattos/Creole/octoroon/Quadroon etc etc but many of those people dont exist anymore since they have mixed more and more into being more "black" or "white".

 

[ninjahood]

Da nigerian is telling a Dominican how his country works...man sit chu *** down [emoji]128514[/emoji]

U already lost.

 

[ksteezy]

Da nigerian is telling a Dominican how his country works...man sit chu *** down [emoji]128514[/emoji]

U already lost.

Lacking real life experience, is like when dudes were concern of visiting DR because they felt they were going to be victims of racial discrimination if they are black, I tried explaining to them, you are American, all they see is green, you will be taken care of....lol

 

[$tatus $ymbol]

:x

 

[zapatohead408]

Did Ninja say slavery wasn't that bad? This white dude who worked at Lowes with me also said the same thing, he had a confederate flag sticker on his truck (in California) and a meth addiction.

 

[mayor of nyc]

Yo ninjahood......you're an idiot

 

[ninjahood]

Da nigerian is telling a Dominican how his country works...man sit chu *** down [emoji]128514[/emoji]

U already lost.

Lacking real life experience

Homeboy's da epitome of living that virtual reality life.

Talks like's da authority on thing he's read in books & yet has never set foot in DR.
My Grandfather RIP was General in da Dominican Army. All i gotta do is flash his ID when i go on vacation and im whisked around like im da mother ******* president

Power & status is what rules in DR and latin america in general not skin color..that type of mentality is for da self defeated who subscribe to American's 1 drop rule.

Sexi Morena women got they heads held high up here in our culture.

[Video][/Video]

 

[luckyluchiano]

Whatever you choose to call it, those divisions set up a social hierarchy in many South American countries.


Many African Americans are mixed like their Dominican brethren. Using funny language to represent black, white, mixed, Asian etc doesn't change anything brotha.

Understand Im not saying the system used in LA is correct Im just exposing the "method to their madness". You go to any hood in latin american nations and the darker people 9 times out of 10 are the worst off. But instead of "race" they hide it behind "social class" and or "ethnic groups". Theres a reason why historically the people with higher African ancestry are the worst off but the argument of "Race" is the wrong argument to use in the beast of Racism in Latin America.

Ninjahood is making a defense because you are overcharging him of a crime pretty much lol you trying to get him for murder when you should reallt be going at him for manslaughter. He can make the arguments he makes because the system is set up like that for specific reason.

Lol People of the African dispora uniting is the last thing the world wants which is why the narrative is created that we are all different.

 

[JPS]

Thank you Lucky for bringing some sense into this thread.

 

[ninjahood]

A interloper telling a Dominican how his Dominican culture is run when u

a. Never been there.

B. Dont even speak Spanish to understand da nuances in my culture.

You even confused Dominica with da Dominican Republic, so i KNOW u dunno wtf u talkin b.



EVERY Hispanic on NT who's even got patience to engage with u has rebuked your assertions

Hell luchi aint even latino & he's telling u da exact OPPOSITE of what u wanna hear

... If this was da real world u would've been sent on ur way ALONG time ago.

 

[x-alt]

Learn your history black man, African Americans are not the only descendants of African slaves. Argentina is 97% white, it prides itself on being the whitest country in South America....that's interesting for a people that don't "see race".

 

The population was systematically whitened.

Up in Colombia they just cut them off and built roads everywhere but there. My mother had never seen a black person until she was 12, back then it was quite an exhibit. My grandfather who lived up in that area used to take pride in being a pure native before the liberals chased him out. But up north I doubt anyone out there wasn't already mixed.

 

[ninjahood]

We live in the age of information, we have books, I don't need to risk cholera to learn about DR.

I rest my case.

Talking bout **** u NEVER been to or experienced.

Sounding like a NY tourist vs a Actual New Yorker.

U perpetuating intellectual fraud.

Every latino worth their arroz con pollo knows u a phony talkin vagabond talkin about latinos