If Kanye's next album is a classic, is he the GOAT?

[deuce king]

StaXX wrote:

---

Yours.



 In no particular order...........



DJ Kool Herc

Rakim

Jay Z

Biggie

Tupac

Nas

Russell Simmons

Dr. Dre

Premo

Run DMC/NWA/Diddy

I must admit, my last slot can go either way with those 3, but that's my list. 

Y'all really trying to put him in the same category as the inventor of the scratch, the first rappers in the Rock and Roll HOF, first black label owner and so forth? I swear only on NT.
That's exactly the point that I'm trying to drive, these dudes have no idea what they are talking about, the error of their ways.

 

[Master Zik]

Dude is obviously caught up in what's going on now and because he's put Kanye on this pedestal and is witnessing it now he'll just act like Ye deserves such an accolade.

 

[D StaXX]

Nice list Deuce. Here's mine in no particular order.

1. Russell Simmons
2. Rick Rubin
3. Run DMC
4. Premo
5. NWA
6. Rakim
7. Tupac
8. Biggie
9. Jay-Z
10. Kanye West

I can definitely see a generational gap. You older Hip-Hop heads are bias though. There's no denying that.

 

[optimusprimeaphia]

Hold up...we're talking about ARTISTS right now. This conversation has always been about ARTISTS. Not DJs and Record Label executives... These fools included Russell Simmons, Rick Rubin, and Premo?!

To be fair and for the record, I included Kanye's production asset as a testament to his impact on the game, not as a qualifier for the list.

 

[bittersweet]

This album is stupid and I hate it.

 

[D StaXX]

Originally Posted by TheKingOfVa

Amazing post, you have to remember some of these posters just started to listen to hip-hop/rap in 2002. So Kanye, an average rapper at best with a so-so flow, is their goat. Even though he isn't a great lyricist, doesn't have classic albums, and not many true classic tracks.  Call me when Kanye goes diamond, since he is supposed to be so popular across all genres. Pac did it, Big did it, Outkast did it. Kanye isn't even the best rapper of this generation so how can he be top 10 all-time? (Eminem is) Name me a rapper who has came out since 99' that has had more impact on the game than Em, more classic albums, better lyrics, and groundbreaking concepts.

And this literally made me laugh out loud.

You really think artist are able to go Diamond now. In the digital age?
By your logic, MC Hammer should be consider for a goat spot too right?
I can tell you're an Eminem groupie though. Dude put out like 3 brick albums with the aforementioned factors.
Eminem had groundbreaking concepts?

Please enlighten me.

 

[vdub1423.insidehoops]

He's not the greatest of all time but the dude created a buzz like no one has seen before... his presence will be left on the game forever

 

[Master Zik]

Originally Posted by OptimusPrimeAPhiA

Hold up...we're talking about ARTISTS right now. This conversation has always been about ARTISTS. Not DJs and Record Label executives... These fools included Russell Simmons, Rick Rubin, and Premo?!

To be fair and for the record, I included Kanye's production asset as a testament to his impact on the game, not as a qualifier for the list.

Dudes specifically said over and over top 10 hip hop figures though. Since the asinine statement was made. How you regulate it back to just artists is a joke.

 

[D StaXX]

Originally Posted by OptimusPrimeAPhiA

Hold up...we're talking about ARTISTS right now. This conversation has always been about ARTISTS. Not DJs and Record Label executives... These fools included Russell Simmons, Rick Rubin, and Premo?!

To be fair and for the record, I included Kanye's production asset as a testament to his impact on the game, not as a qualifier for the list.

Son, we've been saying Hip-Hop figure for like the last 2 pages?

 

[deuce king]

Originally Posted by airmaxpenny1

True Hip-Hop heads are so bias towards the past, Kanye is regardless already a top 10 figure in Hip-Hop history.

Yeah it started out talking about artists but once this comment was made above it switched over into him being a Top 10 figure in hip hop history.  Then from there you and the rest of the Kanye West fan club try to say how he was a Top 10 figure in hip hop history 

.  Now all of a sudden you wanna back peddle and claim you didn't know what we we're talking about

.  Like I said before, you dudes are funny.

Dudes specifically said over and over top 10 hip hop figures though. Since the asinine statement was made. How you regulate it back to just artists is a joke.
Exactly.

Edit--

Son, we've been saying Hip-Hop figure for like the last 2 pages?

  
Like I said, he's that dude in class that just wants to yell out the wrong answer instead of raising his hand and asking the proper question from the start.  He just proved my point. 

 

[hymen man]

Originally Posted by Master Zik

Originally Posted by OptimusPrimeAPhiA

Hold up...we're talking about ARTISTS right now. This conversation has always been about ARTISTS. Not DJs and Record Label executives... These fools included Russell Simmons, Rick Rubin, and Premo?!

To be fair and for the record, I included Kanye's production asset as a testament to his impact on the game, not as a qualifier for the list.

Dudes specifically said over and over top 10 hip hop figures though. Since the asinine statement was made. How you regulate it back to just artists is a joke.

 

[neptunebeats187]

I feel I should have put more emphasis on "OUR TIME" when I previously made this statement. We know the founders of hip hop.. your Curtis blow's and Public Enemies, Run DMC, yadda yadda, and how beneficial they were to hip hop to be even accepted as a mainstream genre. But what I was really getting at, (and I'm 23 btw) is this. I have been listening to Kanye in my early HS years and such, and really found a dope MC to relate to. The way he's excelled with the media and and diff campaigns with high-end designers and brands that maybe 20 years ago, wouldn't even consider hip hop collaborating with them in any sort of way. The effect he's had on people and just style overall, amazing concerts, and now films and such. You can call it reaching, or whatever. I'm not even the biggest Kanye fan out there, but I am 100% sure he's going to go down as one of the greatest to ever do it, musically. Period.

 

[thekingofva]

StaXX wrote:

---

Originally Posted by TheKingOfVa

Amazing post, you have to remember some of these posters just started to listen to hip-hop/rap in 2002. So Kanye, an average rapper at best with a so-so flow, is their goat. Even though he isn't a great lyricist, doesn't have classic albums, and not many true classic tracks.  Call me when Kanye goes diamond, since he is supposed to be so popular across all genres. Pac did it, Big did it, Outkast did it. Kanye isn't even the best rapper of this generation so how can he be top 10 all-time? (Eminem is) Name me a rapper who has came out since 99' that has had more impact on the game than Em, more classic albums, better lyrics, and groundbreaking concepts.

And this literally made me laugh out loud.

You really think artist are able to go Diamond now. In the digital age?
By your logic, MC Hammer should be consider for a goat spot too right?
I can tell you're an Eminem groupie though. Dude put out like 3 brick albums with the aforementioned factors.
Eminem had groundbreaking concepts?

Please enlighten me.

First off, I never disrespected you so chill with the groupie #@#. Not sure why kids on the internet think it's cool to be disrespectful for no reason.

Outkast went diamond in the digital age , Eminem did, and so did 50 cent (worldwide sales). Stop making excused for Ye'. It made laugh when you said Kanye is a top 10 rapper of all time. Can you even name 100 MC's? It's always funny when people with a lack of hip hop knowledge proclaim an album is classic or an artist is the "goat"

So Eminem didn't have groundbreaking song concepts? So Em didn't have at least 1 classic album? So Em isn't the biggest rapper of this decade by far? Do you listen to music or do you skim through it? "Stan" and "Lose yourself" are classic songs, better than anything Ye' can come up with. List all these classic Kanye albums and tracks please. Kanye is a good rapper at best and an amazing producer. He has had several good to great albums. Are you seriously saying Kanye is a better MC than Eminem? If so I won't even waste my time responding.

 

[optimusprimeaphia]

Originally Posted by TheKingOfVa

StaXX wrote:

---

Originally Posted by TheKingOfVa

Amazing post, you have to remember some of these posters just started to listen to hip-hop/rap in 2002. So Kanye, an average rapper at best with a so-so flow, is their goat. Even though he isn't a great lyricist, doesn't have classic albums, and not many true classic tracks.  Call me when Kanye goes diamond, since he is supposed to be so popular across all genres. Pac did it, Big did it, Outkast did it. Kanye isn't even the best rapper of this generation so how can he be top 10 all-time? (Eminem is) Name me a rapper who has came out since 99' that has had more impact on the game than Em, more classic albums, better lyrics, and groundbreaking concepts.

And this literally made me laugh out loud.

You really think artist are able to go Diamond now. In the digital age?
By your logic, MC Hammer should be consider for a goat spot too right?
I can tell you're an Eminem groupie though. Dude put out like 3 brick albums with the aforementioned factors.
Eminem had groundbreaking concepts?

Please enlighten me.

First off, I never disrespected you so chill with the groupie #@#. Not sure why kids on the internet think it's cool to be disrespectful for no reason.

Outkast went diamond in the digital age , Eminem did, and so did 50 cent (worldwide sales). Stop making excused for Ye'. It made laugh when you said Kanye is a top 10 rapper of all time. Can you even name 100 MC's? It's always funny when people with a lack of hip hop knowledge proclaim an album is classic or an artist is the "goat"

So Eminem didn't have groundbreaking song concepts? So Em didn't have at least 1 classic album? So Em isn't the biggest rapper of this decade by far? Do you listen to music or do you skim through it? "Stan" and "Lose yourself" are classic songs, better than anything Ye' can come up with. List all these classic Kanye albums and tracks please. Kanye is a good rapper at best and an amazing producer. He has had several good to great albums. Are you seriously saying Kanye is a better MC than Eminem? If so I won't even waste my time responding.

@ Kanye having no classic albums.

Dudes will never understand that rapping ability does not equate to musical ability.

Thats why J Cole fans are tight that Drake is still getting shine...and I'm a fan of both.

Otherwise every rapper to be featured on a Smack DVD or WSHH would have gone Diamond.

 

[thekingofva]

Originally Posted by OptimusPrimeAPhiA

Originally Posted by TheKingOfVa

StaXX wrote:

---

Originally Posted by TheKingOfVa

Amazing post, you have to remember some of these posters just started to listen to hip-hop/rap in 2002. So Kanye, an average rapper at best with a so-so flow, is their goat. Even though he isn't a great lyricist, doesn't have classic albums, and not many true classic tracks.  Call me when Kanye goes diamond, since he is supposed to be so popular across all genres. Pac did it, Big did it, Outkast did it. Kanye isn't even the best rapper of this generation so how can he be top 10 all-time? (Eminem is) Name me a rapper who has came out since 99' that has had more impact on the game than Em, more classic albums, better lyrics, and groundbreaking concepts.

And this literally made me laugh out loud.

You really think artist are able to go Diamond now. In the digital age?
By your logic, MC Hammer should be consider for a goat spot too right?
I can tell you're an Eminem groupie though. Dude put out like 3 brick albums with the aforementioned factors.
Eminem had groundbreaking concepts?

Please enlighten me.

First off, I never disrespected you so chill with the groupie #@#. Not sure why kids on the internet think it's cool to be disrespectful for no reason.

Outkast went diamond in the digital age , Eminem did, and so did 50 cent (worldwide sales). Stop making excused for Ye'. It made laugh when you said Kanye is a top 10 rapper of all time. Can you even name 100 MC's? It's always funny when people with a lack of hip hop knowledge proclaim an album is classic or an artist is the "goat"

So Eminem didn't have groundbreaking song concepts? So Em didn't have at least 1 classic album? So Em isn't the biggest rapper of this decade by far? Do you listen to music or do you skim through it? "Stan" and "Lose yourself" are classic songs, better than anything Ye' can come up with. List all these classic Kanye albums and tracks please. Kanye is a good rapper at best and an amazing producer. He has had several good to great albums. Are you seriously saying Kanye is a better MC than Eminem? If so I won't even waste my time responding.

@ Kanye having no classic albums.

Dudes will never understand that rapping ability does not equate to musical ability.

Thats why J Cole fans are tight that Drake is still getting shine...and I'm a fan of both.

Otherwise every rapper to be featured on a Smack DVD or WSHH would have gone Diamond.

You guys throw around the term classic too much. Just because an artist has a good or great album doesn't mean it is a classic. A classic is "Doggystyle", "Blueprint", "Illmatic". The only Ye' album that can be debated right now as a classic is "College Dropout" because of its impact. I think Kanye is a very consistent artist who never makes a bad album (hell I even bought "808 and Heartbreaks"). I just don't think he has made a true classic album that will be listened to 30 years from now.

 

[fearthenut]

I've yet to see anyone list "classic" Kanye tracks. Can someone please? I'd love to hear the ones that are comparable to other classic singles thrown out (Lose Yourself/Stan) just in this last page. 

 

[D StaXX]

Originally Posted by TheKingOfVa

StaXX wrote:

---

Originally Posted by TheKingOfVa

Amazing post, you have to remember some of these posters just started to listen to hip-hop/rap in 2002. So Kanye, an average rapper at best with a so-so flow, is their goat. Even though he isn't a great lyricist, doesn't have classic albums, and not many true classic tracks.  Call me when Kanye goes diamond, since he is supposed to be so popular across all genres. Pac did it, Big did it, Outkast did it. Kanye isn't even the best rapper of this generation so how can he be top 10 all-time? (Eminem is) Name me a rapper who has came out since 99' that has had more impact on the game than Em, more classic albums, better lyrics, and groundbreaking concepts.

And this literally made me laugh out loud.

You really think artist are able to go Diamond now. In the digital age?
By your logic, MC Hammer should be consider for a goat spot too right?
I can tell you're an Eminem groupie though. Dude put out like 3 brick albums with the aforementioned factors.
Eminem had groundbreaking concepts?

Please enlighten me.

Outkast went diamond in the digital age , Eminem did, and so did 50 cent (worldwide sales). Stop making excused for Ye'. It made laugh when you said Kanye is a top 10 rapper of all time. Can you even name 100 MC's? It's always funny when people with a lack of hip hop knowledge proclaim an album is classic or an artist is the "goat"

So Eminem didn't have groundbreaking song concepts? So Em didn't have at least 1 classic album? So Em isn't the biggest rapper of this decade by far? Do you listen to music or do you skim through it? "Stan" and "Lose yourself" are classic songs, better than anything Ye' can come up with. List all these classic Kanye albums and tracks please. Kanye is a good rapper at best and an amazing producer. He has had several good to great albums. Are you seriously saying Kanye is a better MC than Eminem? If so I won't even waste my time responding.



You're right. I shouldn't have called you a groupie. My bad. No sarcasm or anything.
But you failing to recognize Kanye's groundbreaking concepts while crediting Eminem illustrates your bias.
Espeically saying "Stan and Lose Yourself>>>>Anything Ye.

You said Kanye didn't have classic albums. (College Dropout & Late Registration) Then you said he barely had any classic tracks. Really?
Like he didn't make Jesus Walks, Spaceship, Last Call, We Major, Flashing Lights, Crack Music. (Top of my head)
Not to mention the production classics he has with other people. You really want to go there?
I mean the guy help spark one of Hip-Hop's greatest battles. There's this song called Takeover.
Maybe you've heard it?

And show me where I said Kanye was a better MC than Em? Please show me.
We all know how skilled Em is. Doesn't mean the music is dope.
As an overall artist, I'll take Kanye 10/10 times before I listen to Eminem.
I don't even know anyone who still listens to Eminem besides my white friends.

Like it or not, Kanye can be considered as a top 10 figure in Hip-Hop history.
He is one of the most recognizable figures in not only Hip-Hop, but America.
His antics has cemented that spot, despite how childish they are.
He called out the president of the United States.
He called out America's sweetheart at the VMAs.
He's done numerous fashion collabs with brands who probably don't even respect Hip-Hop.
I mean the guy has his own pair of Nikes and Louis Vuittons.
Naw, he definitely can't be considered a top ten figure.

 

[ace rawstein]

lol damn this issh got mad confusing....just give Ye his props and leave it at that...dude is not GOAT

n's cant downplay the groundwork the og's did but they cant overlook the way Ye got issh poppin 2000 n beyond either

it would be foolish to say nobody that came up in da 80s early 90s and was introduced to the world in the last 10 years did anything to influence the culture if u ask me...now I aint saying that deserves a "top 10 figures in hip-hop history" ranking but...the NBA didnt die after Jordan retired sumbody had to keep it afloat

 

[deuce king]

DStaxx, you make good points and although I don't agree with you on the majority of your points, at least there's a rhyme and reason behind your train of thought.  However, and no disrepect to you of course, here is where knowing your history is important in terms of having conversations about the most important figures in hip hop history, for example........

He called out the president of the United States.

So did NWA and Ice-T before him, and on a my bigger scale might I add as far as the purpose behind it.

He called out America's sweetheart at the VMAs.
Completely irrelevant overall and truth be told it was truly a @@%!$ move on Kanye's part, just another exmaple of him having a "hey world look at me moment".  It was totally unnecessary.

He's done numerous fashion collabs with brands who probably don't even respect Hip-Hop.
Rakim, Big Daddy Kane, Slick Rick, Russell Simmons, Puffy, Jay Z, and Pharrell all did this before ya boy Kanye as well. 

 

[D StaXX]

Originally Posted by Ace Rawstein

lol damn this issh got mad confusing....just give Ye his props and leave it at that...dude is not GOAT

n's cant downplay the groundwork the og's did but they cant overlook the way Ye got issh poppin 2000 n beyond either

it would be foolish to say nobody that came up in da 80s early 90s and was introduced to the world in the last 10 years did anything to influence the culture if u ask me...now I aint saying that deserves a "top 10 figures in hip-hop history" ranking but...the NBA didnt die after Jordan retired sumbody had to keep it afloat

Basically. Ye definitely isn't the GOAT.
I'm just saying dude deserves his props.
Great analogy btw..

 

[neptunebeats187]

I think it depends on your definition of classic. As in overall appeal? I feel 'Spaceship' is a personal classic for me. If you can't relate to that, then... I just don't know. You could say "Through the Wire," too I feel. Not too sure what can really be classified as truly 'Classic' these days.

 

[D StaXX]

Originally Posted by Deuce King

DStaxx, you make good points and although I don't agree with you on the majority of your points, at least there's a rhyme and reason behind your train of thought.  However, and no disrepect to you of course, here is where knowing your history is important in terms of having conversations about the most important figures in hip hop history, for example........

He called out the president of the United States.

So did NWA and Ice-T before him, and on a my bigger scale might I add as far as the purpose behind it.

He called out America's sweetheart at the VMAs.
Completely irrelevant overall and truth be told it was truly a @@%!$ move on Kanye's part, just another exmaple of him having a "hey world look at me moment".  It was totally unnecessary.

He's done numerous fashion collabs with brands who probably don't even respect Hip-Hop.
Rakim, Big Daddy Kane, Slick Rick, Russell Simmons, Puffy, Jay Z, and Pharrell all did this before ya boy Kanye as well. 



You're right and I have no problem acknowledging that homie.
Some dudes in here are just so stubborn and unreasonable. Dude said Lose Yourself & Stan>>>>>>>>Anything Ye's done.

Alright.
How anyone can say that baffles the hell of of me.
All I'm saying is that it's not too outlandish to consider Ye a top figure in Hip-Hop but he's NOT the goat.

 

[nocomment6]

Hes not the GOAT. But he is probably amongst the most influental musicians/rappers of the decade. I'll go further of all-time. Personally I consider an album a classic if it changes the game, not many, Illmatic did, Blueprint did, MMLP did, Doggystyle, straight out of compton did and so on. And i think the college dropout was the only album from Kanye to have such an impact. Hes an amazing producer wicked beats and using soul and gospel samples hes brought a lot to the hiphop scene, influenced many, made excellent music etc. SO he needs his well deserved recognition. But rapping wise he is far from Em and many more dudes, therefore he cant be he GOAT. Still a fan though.

 

[witnesss]

he already is one of the goats

 

[optimusprimeaphia]

The current argument, aside from the thread title, isn't that he is the GOAT, its that hes one of the top hip-hop artists ever...as in top 10.