Im completely infatuated with da demise of Roc-A-Fella Records. VOL. Rome burned slow

[Master Zik]

JR set the record straight. It's like I already knew it but it's so much more poignant and potent when you see it in a post like that.

Cam went the hardest for his team when it came to putting then on bar none. I dunno, his problem/downfall ended up being internal problems and them dudes not having his back when he went at Curtis, to me them dudes got too comfortable. Curtis was also very enthusiastic about creating a strong movement with his team and would've succeeded and could've fell back and played the Puffy role but his problem was not being a good judge of character. He fumbled with Game, he should've left him where Dre did, on the shelf. Plus since he went with that 4 corners of country formula the dudes he was putting on turned out not to be 100% loyal when things turned bad and Curtis nature of just bullying and picking on dudes soon got focused on his team and it crumbled. He started putting more pressure on his actual friends when he felt like they were doing enough and that's mainly Banks and Yayo.

With all that said Jay never did anything like that. The other dudes who was his age rapping gave up or never were rappers. Bleek was young enough and loyal to stick it out. Jaz was not trying to look like the guy that needed a hand out so now what do we have left? It's obvious dude just didn't have it in him to really develop and strongly support an artist. He's more sink or swim and it's clear he can't do it how Puff does it.

 

[deuce king]

He's more sink or swim

Which is a good approach to have IMO.  You dudes sound like Jay should be holding these rappers hands out here and whatnot.  As the saying goes, "teach a man how to fish and he will eat for a lifetime"  Dudes are looking for Jay to reel the fish, pull it up from shore, and then cook it for dudes. 

"jay is my best friend" "we all believe in sharing"

then when you hear jay-z dont wanna be in your video, a verse on your album? ha....oh thats your beat? nah you know thats for da big homie

but we all family though....dont worry its all family though.

Notice how you gloss over Dame stealing money from Beans which Beans admitted on video, or Dame spending the label money like crazy from what others have said, or Dame trying to make business decisions about bringing on certain people while Jay is out of town.  Yeah, some family man Dame is and best friend Dame is. At the end of the day, all 3 of these dudes had a hand in the demise of Rocafella, grown men not able to get along and unable to sustain the relationship that they had, it sad on all accounts, especially for the fans that LOVED the label and music. 

You can't really say Jay put RocAFella on the map while saying they all equally played a part in it's creation. Jay had been around for ages with little success. Until he met Dame.

RocAFella became the empire it did because of the rest of the roster (Philly dudes, Kanye, Dips), movies, clothing, etc. And that was certainly not all Jay.

Agreed, good points.

 

[|A-Man|]

Which is a good approach to have IMO.  You dudes sound like Jay should be holding these rappers hands out here and whatnot.  As the saying goes, "teach a man how to fish and he will eat for a lifetime"  Dudes are looking for Jay to reel the fish, pull it up from shore, and then cook it for dudes. 

Nah man, it's a good approach if you're already in a lofty position and have nothing to lose and don't really care if dudes succeed or not. What Cam and Curtis did weren't holding Jimmy's, Banks', Juelz's, Buck's, etc. hands. It was legit support. They believed in those dudes and were confident with their help they'd make it.

The way Jay seemed to approach it is it was a risk for him to be in your video or come with you to the radio station and introduce you just in case the fans might think you were whack and he aint want to be associated with that. He'd rather wait until someone else did the work of developing and polishing the product so he can jump in and be all buddy buddy and promote it.

 

[captainsneakerhead23]

Nah man, it's a good approach if you're already in a lofty position and have nothing to lose and don't really care if dudes succeed or not. What Cam and Curtis did weren't holding Jimmy's, Banks', Juelz's, Buck's, etc. hands. It was legit support. They believed in those dudes and were confident with their help they'd make it.
The way Jay seemed to approach it is it was a risk for him to be in your video or come with you to the radio station and introduce you just in case the fans might think you were whack and he aint want to be associated with that. He'd rather wait until someone else did the work of developing and polishing the product so he can jump in and be all buddy buddy and promote it.

EXACTLY! Jay doesn't even acknowledge J.Cole as his artist .. Cam and Curtis hopped on every track, did every video, and probably showed up to every radio station interview plus jumped on the freestyle sessions with their team. When the ROC was beefin' with Nas and D-Block, did Jay even spit a verse when State Prop invaded HOT97? Adlibs like "switch the beat up" yes, but an actual verse I think not . Every time Dipset or G-unit got on the radio, even if it was a garbage or recycled verse, Cam and Curtis participated with their respective team or artist.

I'm a Jay fan no doubt about that but I always said him promoting another artist/group is simply not his lane.

 

[niquefreak94]

EXACTLY! Jay doesn't even acknowledge J.Cole as his artist .. Cam and Curtis hopped on every track, did every video, and probably showed up to every radio station interview plus jumped on the freestyle sessions with their team. When the ROC was beefin' with Nas and D-Block, did Jay even spit a verse when State Prop invaded HOT97? Adlibs like "switch the beat up" yes, but an actual verse I think not . Every time Dipset or G-unit got on the radio, even if it was a garbage or recycled verse, Cam and Curtis participated with their respective team or artist.
I'm a Jay fan no doubt about that but I always said him promoting another artist/group is simply not his lane.

am i the only one noticing kanye kind of doing that? it's not the same situation...but kind of.

 

[captainsneakerhead23]

am i the only one noticing kanye kind of doing that? it's not the same situation...but kind of.

I noticed it as well but it's kinda different because the artist on G.O.O.D Music can still move units without Kanye. Big Sean, Common, and 2 Chainz already have their own fan base so their fine without Kanye being on the scene with them 24/7. However, I think Kanye needs to back Pusha a little more so he can finally get his shine and what ever happened to CyHi da Prince, he get no love from his camp, I'm surprised he even made the album.

 

[niquefreak94]

I noticed it as well but it's kinda different because the artist on G.O.O.D Music can still move units without Kanye. Big Sean, Common, and 2 Chainz already have their own fan base so their fine without Kanye being on the scene with them 24/7. However, I think Kanye needs to back Pusha a little more so he can finally get his shine and what ever happened to CyHi da Prince, he get no love from his camp, I'm surprised he even made the album.

yeah i agree.. that's why i said it was kind of different. i just noticed that for this Cruel Summer push he was nowhere to be found w/ the crew. and i think without being accompanied by Kanye the less established acts won't really get to where to need to be: Teyana Taylor & Travis Scott

 

[bandman]

Nah man, it's a good approach if you're already in a lofty position and have nothing to lose and don't really care if dudes succeed or not. What Cam and Curtis did weren't holding Jimmy's, Banks', Juelz's, Buck's, etc. hands. It was legit support. They believed in those dudes and were confident with their help they'd make it.
The way Jay seemed to approach it is it was a risk for him to be in your video or come with you to the radio station and introduce you just in case the fans might think you were whack and he aint want to be associated with that. He'd rather wait until someone else did the work of developing and polishing the product so he can jump in and be all buddy buddy and promote it.

EXACTLY! Jay doesn't even acknowledge J.Cole as his artist

.. Cam and Curtis hopped on every track, did every video, and probably showed up to every radio station interview plus jumped on the freestyle sessions with their team. When the ROC was beefin' with Nas and D-Block, did Jay even spit a verse when State Prop invaded HOT97? Adlibs like "switch the beat up" yes, but an actual verse I think not

. Every time Dipset or G-unit got on the radio, even if it was a garbage or recycled verse, Cam and Curtis participated with their respective team or artist.

I'm a Jay fan no doubt about that but I always said him promoting another artist/group is simply not his lane.

Come on man. Cole was the opening act at the Blueprint 3 tour and had a verse on the album. This was before his debut dropped and he only had two mixtapes out. There's a difference between guiding an artist and babysitting them everywhere. Jay is the type of boss who allows you creative freedom to grow and develop your own sound rather than just have you ride off his co-sign.

 

[gaut24]

Kanyes giving his artists beats, does songs with them hops in videos.. Seemed like Jay didn't want **** to do with his |I

 

[hustlin hoffman]

This was by far the most overrated record label ever.

It had it's run from 2000-2003...

everyone outside of Jay-Z and Kanye West and maybe the Dips was garbage...

Young Chris? Peedi Crakk? Lil Neefy? Memphis Bleek? Teirra Marie? Freeway?...smh

Tha Row > tha Roc

Shady Aftermath G-Unit > Tha Roc

Cash Money > Tha Roc

 

[yungmatt]

 

[solarius49]

This was by far the most overrated record label ever.


It had it's run from 2000-2003...

everyone outside of Jay-Z and Kanye West and maybe the Dips was garbage...

Young Chris? Peedi Crakk? Lil Neefy? Memphis Bleek? Teirra Marie? Freeway?...smh

Tha Row > tha Roc

Shady Aftermath G-Unit > Tha Roc

Cash Money > Tha Roc

Bro, all your posts are ridiculous, so I think you're trolling. Outside of Em, and maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe Banks, who on Shady Aftermath was better than Beans or Free? Tha Row? Nobody was checkin for those Westside Connection records. Cash Money? In the early 2000's? Juvey was their best rappper, and Wayne was still rapping about wobbldy wobbldy. And from 2000-2003, Kanye was still pretty much a nobody as far as rap goes (College Dropout dropped in 04). Bleek would rap circles around most rappers (say what you will, but he has moved units through his career)

 

[Peep Game]

^And on top of that, dude conveniently left out Beanie Sigel and Twista, and Freeway has been dope since day one, and he's even much better now.

I was a big fan of all those labels he listed, but...Tha Row??? Tha Row??? What ???

JR set the record straight. It's like I already knew it but it's so much more poignant and potent when you see it in a post like that.

Plus since he went with that 4 corners of country formula the dudes he was putting on turned out not to be 100% loyal when things turned bad and Curtis nature of just bullying and picking on dudes soon got focused on his team and it crumbled. He started putting more pressure on his actual friends when he felt like they were doing enough and that's mainly Banks and Yayo.

Has this formula ever actually worked? I'm trying to backtrack now, and it just seems like a mess every time artists/labels try to pull that off.

 

[hustlin hoffman]

Bro, all your posts are ridiculous, so I think you're trolling. Outside of Em, and maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe Banks, who on Shady Aftermath was better than Beans or Free? Tha Row? Nobody was checkin for those Westside Connection records. Cash Money? In the early 2000's? Juvey was their best rappper, and Wayne was still rapping about wobbldy wobbldy. And from 2000-2003, Kanye was still pretty much a nobody as far as rap goes (College Dropout dropped in 04). Bleek would rap circles around most rappers (say what you will, but he has moved units through his career)

Bleek moved units in a different era man...

where going Platinum was the goal...and not 1x...but multi....

and even then he only went gold...

his albums went gold...like Rick Ross...i think the most he sold was 700K...

this an era when Ja, Dmx, Jay, Nelly were going 3-4x plat....Em was going diamond....different era...bruh...so don't poke your chest out...at "bleek moved units"

Bleek is useless...

Bleek is a horrible rapper....I don't care if his albums reach gold status....if you were to release those albums now...he moves 200 units his first week....Bleek drops an album right now...he's 100 units his first week....

50 cent sold 13 million in his first album....he sold more in his first...Jay don't got an album that went 10 or 13 mil worldwide...

Jay never 700-800K like 50 in his first week...or sold 1 million his first week like Wayne and Fiddy did...

You had young chris, peedi crakk, lil neefy, teirra marie, freeway, oschino, sparks....are you expecting to sell records with those guys and move units?

stop it...

Beanie sigel is the only one that had potential.....the only real talent outside of Ye, Jay and maybe the dips...

The whole Rocafella clique is a joke....you guys can credit them for rocawear....but not for moving units...

you gonna sell with Young chris and lil neefy?

Jay did right...he went with Kanye, Rihanna, Ne-Yo...and that made him his cake....

What hell was jay gonna make off young chris, lil neefy, peedi, freeway?

come on b

Tha Row...Death Row Records b...

Pac, Dre, Snoop....Suge as the figurehead...

you wanna pin up those legends against Young chris, lil neefy, freeway and peedi peedi?

I'm done.

Yall throw yall diamonds up all yall want...I never wore rocwear...so there is no nostalgia with me...

Death Row > Rocafella...

Daz, Kurupt, Pac, Dre, Snoop....

over

Young chris, lil neefy, freeway, peedi peedi, teirra marie, bleek....all those other nobodies

 

[ninjahood]

^And on top of that, dude conveniently left out Beanie Sigel and Twista, and Freeway has been dope since day one, and he's even much better now.

I was a big fan of all those labels he listed, but...Tha Row??? Tha Row??? What

???

JR set the record straight. It's like I already knew it but it's so much more poignant and potent when you see it in a post like that.

Plus since he went with that 4 corners of country formula the dudes he was putting on turned out not to be 100% loyal when things turned bad and Curtis nature of just bullying and picking on dudes soon got focused on his team and it crumbled. He started putting more pressure on his actual friends when he felt like they were doing enough and that's mainly Banks and Yayo.

Has this formula ever actually worked? I'm trying to backtrack now, and it just seems like a mess every time artists/labels try to pull that off.

only person to ever pull it off was biggie in life after death, and even then, da results were tainted because he died.

i guess you can say vol. 3 jay-z and dynasty jay-z album as well..but critically both those albums were soft.

 

[jhawk826]

dope thread!

great to see so much info about the roc's history.

if someone knows for sure, correct me if im wrong, but never heard bleek had anything to do with discovering ross. lol i know e class/poeboy developed him in mia and never heard bleek's name come up with anything ross wise (early on or now). it'd be interesting if true, def might go asking around about it if anyone can confirm.

i dont think theres anything wrong with jay'z approach to the artists on his label-sure he's not including em or featuring em all on his tracks or jumpin on theirs but think he personally said he sits back and watches his artists evolve n make it out on their own. with a leader like jay tho, isnt that enough motivation to succeed and get his approval? lol i remember cole didnt even get jay's verse for gold watch til the last min before the album was due.

i think its interesting that roc nation manages wale and meek mill but that theyre on a diff label and "crew" entirely.

not to derail the thread, but if bleek or e-class discovered ross where does that put erick sermon?

Didn't know that. Great find.

 

[meek meals]

I noticed it as well but it's kinda different because the artist on G.O.O.D Music can still move units without Kanye. Big Sean, Common, and 2 Chainz already have their own fan base so their fine without Kanye being on the scene with them 24/7. However, I think Kanye needs to back Pusha a little more so he can finally get his shine and what ever happened to CyHi da Prince, he get no love from his camp, I'm surprised he even made the album.

yeah i agree.. that's why i said it was kind of different. i just noticed that for this Cruel Summer push he was nowhere to be found w/ the crew. and i think without being accompanied by Kanye the less established acts won't really get to where to need to be: Teyana Taylor & Travis Scott

Kanye not doing press has nothing to with his team, he hasn't done press since the Matt Laurer (sp?) Today Show on NBC interview in late 2010 where he was trying to promote MBDTF and the production team kept playing clips over his words.

 

[greezee]

Its crazy, all of Bleeks albums went gold

FALSE.

 

[Maximus Meridius]

Jay and Cam on the same label was NEVER gonna work IMO.

 

[rook]

whats the story behind give it to me?

whole story right here.

SMH @ me always thinking Pharell sung the hook all these years

 

[Master Zik]

JR set the record straight. It's like I already knew it but it's so much more poignant and potent when you see it in a post like that.

Plus since he went with that 4 corners of country formula the dudes he was putting on turned out not to be 100% loyal when things turned bad and Curtis nature of just bullying and picking on dudes soon got focused on his team and it crumbled. He started putting more pressure on his actual friends when he felt like they were doing enough and that's mainly Banks and Yayo.

Has this formula ever actually worked? I'm trying to backtrack now, and it just seems like a mess every time artists/labels try to pull that off.

Once he tried to do it I quickly noticed it but no one rapper with a label has been able to successfully pull that off. That would be a feat. I'd say Def Jam as a whole has made that work but the whole get put on, put someone else on in that cycle hasn't worked with all of the regions where hip hop is prevalent.

 

[niquefreak94]

Kanye not doing press has nothing to with his team, he hasn't done press since the Matt Laurer (sp?) Today Show on NBC interview in late 2010 where he was trying to promote MBDTF and the production team kept playing clips over his words.​

what? i know why. i just said i noticed it w/ his team. i never said it was because of his team.

 

[rook]

am i the only one noticing kanye kind of doing that? it's not the same situation...but kind of.

I noticed it as well but it's kinda different because the artist on G.O.O.D Music can still move units without Kanye. Big Sean, Common, and 2 Chainz already have their own fan base so their fine without Kanye being on the scene with them 24/7. However, I think Kanye needs to back Pusha a little more so he can finally get his shine and what ever happened to CyHi da Prince, he get no love from his camp, I'm surprised he even made the album.

Kanye is giving Pusha MAJOR push though (No pun intended) Specially in the last 2 years.

 

[Jordan8]

Yea he's giving Push a lot of looks. I hate nothings catching for the god he's my favorite rapper right now. Hopefully Pain does something

 

[Peep Game]

Would've been perfect for Pusha T to drop a bit after "Mercy", but that song was really made to showcase 2Chainz