Im completely infatuated with da demise of Roc-A-Fella Records. VOL. Rome burned slow

[solarius49]

My only problem with Jay is he has no clue how to promote an artist. He has talent in his face and he pretty much ignores it if it doesn't benefit him in every aspect. J-Cole/Jay Electronica havent blown up on Roc Nation and somebody correct me if I'm wrong wasn't Wale down with Roc Nation too or was the a joint deal with MMG?

What more would you like to see Jay do for these artists? As if being signed to Roc Nation isn't enough or a highlight or a way to be highlighted, it's up to the artist to put in the work from that point. Sometimes the stars align together, sometimes they don't.

cam & 50 are perfect examples of how to put cats on.

how jay-z declines to get in his artist's videos when he's on da set?

.....and both those rappers are irrelevant to this very day when it comes to music champ. G-Unit is dead and Jim Jones, once the right hand man for Cam has been reduced to looking like less than a man by getting ran by his fiance on TV. Your going to have to do better than that champ.

As irrelevant as you may think they are, they still make pretty good music, and they still make money from music. And by your logic, Talib Kweli would be irrelevant because Kanye West is more successful than him.

If Cam put Jim Jones on to the point where he put out a couple #1 albums, went Gold a few times, and has a reality show...I wouldnt call that irrelevant.....
50 put Lloyd Banks, Young Buck, the Game and TONY YAYO on to the point where they ALL went platinum, not to mention being one of the biggest hip hop artists of all time....I wouldnt call that irrelevant either....

by your logic, every rapper who isnt currently on the radio is irrelevant

 

[jr paperstacks]

Yea, Cam did it the best. He has the whole set rockin' at one point. He definitely gave everybody a real shot to blow. The music and image (and probably business) wasn't all the way there all the time. But, his heart was in it. And he did a lot of stuff he didn't really have to do to see his team pop.

Juelz is on the most spun song in Def Jam history (at the time), almost half and half.
He's on CHWM 6 times.
The first disc of DI1 is like a Juelz Santana promo, down to the skits. He might be on DI1 more than Cam.

All setting him up for his first album. And Cam was on the lead single and in the video for that. Not to mention all the mixtape tracks and just the look in general.
"I'm a star standing next to a star. You see me, you see Cam. You see a car next to a car."




He's on like the first 4 songs on OMWTC plus Crunk Muzik. I mean, Jim was always Cam's man. Even when he was spitting super wack verse on CoF and SDE. And when it was time for Jones to make his own music, Cam was very present.

Even the second level dudes like JR Writer. Cam and Wayne on Bird Call. Both in the video. Slightly before Wayne got out of there popular. (Which The Diplomats had something to do with)...but, I'm pretty sure that's Cam's pull. He's at the radio station (a la Jay) to hype up JRs 6 minute freestyle, the Funk Flex freestyle...all that.

Hell Rell on the phone from jail on DI1. I had no idea what Hell Rell even looked like for a long time (could've stayed that way)

Even letting Casa start the album off. The day after he signed to Diplomats

50 did the same thing. And since he was a bigger star than Cam. Those guys probably were even more successful than The Dips.

But, in Jay's defense (kinda)...those weren't his friends. They just weren't. They never were. Jay is 15 years older than most of them. They're not in the same peer group. They didn't grow up together. They didn't struggle together. They didn't come up together. He doesn't know them dudes like that. Jay looked out for Bleek maybe more than Cam or 50 did for anybody on their teams (respectively)...and *that's* his man. That's his friend. His real friend. Jay was already Jay when he met them dudes.

Jay talked that "family" **** like everybody else does. But, it just wasn't that. They worked for Jay. It was a business relationship.

 

[jthagreat]

at the end of the day, and it seems to always remain true with many of the arguments....(im paraphrasing) "if you look at all the people who have had gripes or bad things to say about Me, its never about something I have done to them, its always about what I HAVEN'T DONE FOR THEM" - Jay-z

 

[mr marcus]

dope thread

Roc had the game on lock back in the day

 

[deuce king]

...everyone on CORE dipset and CORE g-unit, former and current doing ALOT better off then da old CORE roc.

Let's take a look at the two biggest artists that each label head was able to put on and then compare.  50 Cent put on Lloyd Banks and Game.  Game and 50 Cent don't even speak or make music together anymore and their relationship is over, Lloyd Banks is doing good for himself from what I can see so I'll give him that.  Cam put on Jim Jones and Santana, Jim Jones is grinding, while I haven't really seen or heard much from Santana.  In comparison however, between either Game and Lloyd Banks or Jim Jones and Santana, neither party can hold a candle music wise or talent wise to Beans and Kanye.  So, the artists that Jay put on trump the artists that both 50 and Cam put on, no doubt about it. 

 (from left to right)

oschino - in jail

Beans - in Jail

freeway -nomad

I'm not sure what you were looking to accomplish with this statement, but a grown man can't keep another grown man out of jail.  What do you want Jay to do, hold their hands their entire lives as grown men to help them with the decisions that they make, that's not a reflection on Jay, that's a reflection on them as individuals.  I would say the same thing if it were Jim Jones in jail, just like I don't or wouldn't blame 50 for the decisions that Buck made with G-Unit and where he now stands in life.  Jay put all 3 of those guys on, what they did or didn't do with that opportunity is on them. 

Jay-Z is terrible at putting rappers on. To the point it's like his co-sign means nothing cuz he just isn't able to develop or properly promote a rapper to a prominent level. He's much better at just doing music with a finished product.

Freeway, Beans, Kanye, and J-Cole would probably disagree with you, just my opinion. 

naw, you can tell by da way he was saying it that there was ALOT of truth into what beans said...

but young chris is still company man toting that slogan....

Young Chris flat out denied that claim by Beanie straight from his own mouth in regards to how much he was getting paid by Jay and now we're not suppose to believe Chris on the matter that pertains to him personally, we're suppose to believe YOU of all people.  You dudes are something else, whatever it takes to try and fool the people I see.......

   

 

[solarius49]

...everyone on CORE dipset and CORE g-unit, former and current doing ALOT better off then da old CORE roc.

Let's take a look at the two biggest artists that each label head was able to put on and then compare.  50 Cent put on Lloyd Banks and Game.  Game and 50 Cent don't even speak or make music together anymore and their relationship is over, Lloyd Banks is doing good for himself from what I can see so I'll give him that.  Cam put on Jim Jones and Santana, Jim Jones is grinding, while I haven't really seen or heard much from Santana.  In comparison however, between either Game and Lloyd Banks or Jim Jones and Santana, neither party can hold a candle music wise or talent wise to Beans and Kanye.  So, the artists that Jay put on trump the artists that both 50 and Cam put on, no doubt about it. 

 (from left to right)

oschino - in jail

Beans - in Jail

freeway -nomad

I'm not sure what you were looking to accomplish with this statement, but a grown man can't keep another grown man out of jail.  What do you want Jay to do, hold their hands their entire lives as grown men to help them with the decisions that they make, that's not a reflection on Jay, that's a reflection on them as individuals.  I would say the same thing if it were Jim Jones in jail, just like I don't or wouldn't blame 50 for the decisions that Buck made with G-Unit and where he now stands in life.  Jay put all 3 of those guys on, what they did or didn't do with that opportunity is on them. 

Jay-Z is terrible at putting rappers on. To the point it's like his co-sign means nothing cuz he just isn't able to develop or properly promote a rapper to a prominent level. He's much better at just doing music with a finished product.

Freeway, Beans, Kanye, and J-Cole would probably disagree with you, just my opinion. 

naw, you can tell by da way he was saying it that there was ALOT of truth into what beans said...

but young chris is still company man toting that slogan....

Young Chris flat out denied that claim by Beanie straight from his own mouth in regards to how much he was getting paid by Jay and now we're not suppose to believe Chris on the matter that pertains to him personally, we're suppose to believe YOU of all people.  You dudes are something else, whatever it takes to try and fool the people I see.......    

Jay put Kanye on? WORD? Even Kanye wouldnt agree with that, he credits Dame and Talib for putting him on long before Jay

 

[seymore cake]

Damn I forgot how ill "Tough Luv" was as an album

 

[deuce king]

Jay put Kanye on? WORD? Even Kanye wouldnt agree with that, he credits Dame and Talib for putting him on long before Jay

I don't recall Kanye making a song titled "Big Brother" that was about Talib or Dame.  If he did can you point me in that direction champ??  Either way, Kanye was signed to Rocafella, Rocafella is the house that Jay helped build, yes Dame and B****s had a major hand in building it as well, but the rapper that built Rocafella was Jay, and Kanye was signed to Rocafella and got the stamp of approval from Jay........................in due time.

 

[solarius49]

Jay put Kanye on? WORD? Even Kanye wouldnt agree with that, he credits Dame and Talib for putting him on long before Jay

I don't recall Kanye making a song titled "Big Brother" that was about Talib or Dame.  If he did can you point me in that direction champ??  Either way, Kanye was signed to Rocafella, Rocafella is the house that Jay helped build, yes Dame and B****s had a major hand in building it as well, but the rapper that built Rocafella was Jay, and Kanye was signed to Rocafella and got the stamp of approval from Jay........................in due time.

There was just an interview posted a few pages ago where he says that Dame brought him in, and put him on. And Talib brought him on tour with him, back when Kanye was still nobody....I went to the Roc the Mic tour back around that same time....I didnt see any Kanye West, idk if yall had a different experience

 

[solarius49]

http://www.mtv.com/bands/w/west_kanye/news_feature_081805/

all eyes on Kanye West.

Kanye West has never been at a loss for words. On his second album, Late Registration, he continues to stay out of the hip-hop box with his lyrics, rhyming about such topics as his grandmother's near-death, AIDS and conflict diamonds.


Out of the studio, of course, Kanye tends to be even more outspoken. And in his exclusive interview with MTV News' Sway Calloway, Ye opens up like he never has before. The Louis Vuitton don reveals for the first time his problems with the widespread homophobia in hip-hop, his battle with Beyoncé's boyfriend and why he was disloyal to the man who first championed him. He also admits to being a bit of a hypocrite. And that's only the beginning ...

 
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See excerpts from the Kanye West interview in Overdrive

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Sway: Here we are, "All Eyes on Kanye West." It's been a few years since you first ran up to MTV and said, "I want my own 'All Eyes On.' " Remember that?

Kanye West: Yeah. I'm trying to hide the smile, though. I don't wanna break my cool.

Sway: No, keep your cool for a second. You've come a long way, you're a true rags-to-riches story. When you first came to New York you really didn't have much in your pocket. You were a new artist, so people gave you their honest opinion, and you fought them all the way. You had the same thing with your own record label, and even with Jay-Z. What happened in that situation?

West: First of all, it was just my whole look — my whole aesthetic was very un-Roc-A-Fella. I had Italian shoes, my size medium T-shirts. I dress kind of like a producer, like all producers dress like this. Picture how it looks with me busting a hard rap with a tight T-shirt on. And I'm rapping to Jay-Z, I'm rapping to the greatest and one of the more gangster rappers out there. I was like, "Yeah, Jay," and I've got the suction-cup T-shirt on. He's looking like, "Yo, I don't think this is gonna work right here."

Sway: Jay actually said that to you?

West: No, but he had that look in his eyes.


They were expecting [my rapping] to be outright terrible. So that was just such a shocker to them that I was actually not wack. And Dame Dash figured out a way that he thought it could work. He said I would be like the hip-hop Babyface, we could do an album and it could be like The Chronic, and we can put Cam'ron on it, Jay on it. You know, he's just a mastermind.


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Exclusive behind-the-scenes photos of Kanye's "All Eyes On"

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Sway: So Dame Dash pretty much put his stamp on you and validated you, in a sense. When the Roc-A-Fella team broke up recently, you chose to stick with Jay-Z. Why did you choose to stick with him when it seems that Dame was the one who supported you in the beginning? Do you think that's disloyal?


West: [He pauses.] Um, yeah.


Sway: You do think it's disloyal?


West: Yup. But you gotta make that decision. I felt like with the relationship that me and Jay built after I was on Roc-A-Fella, we had built a different type of relationship, it was a working musical relationship because of the production, and I built more like a business relationship with Dame because of all the ventures he wanted to involve me with. And not to be cliché, but it's like I was between a rock and a hard place. And it was just like if your parents were to divorce.

 

[deuce king]

Jay put Kanye on? WORD? Even Kanye wouldnt agree with that, he credits Dame and Talib for putting him on long before Jay

I don't recall Kanye making a song titled "Big Brother" that was about Talib or Dame.  If he did can you point me in that direction champ??  Either way, Kanye was signed to Rocafella, Rocafella is the house that Jay helped build, yes Dame and B****s had a major hand in building it as well, but the rapper that built Rocafella was Jay, and Kanye was signed to Rocafella and got the stamp of approval from Jay........................in due time.

There was just an interview posted a page or 2 ago where he says that Dame brought him in, and put him on. And Talib brought him on tour with him, back when Kanye was still nobody....I went to the Roc the Mic tour back around that same time....I didnt see any Kanye West, idk if yall had a different experience

I knew all of that, and thank you for posting it.  My last sentence in my previous statement still holds true however, Kanye was signed to the house that Jay Z built.  I know Dame was the one who believed in Kanye first, and Talib brought him on tour as he explains on College Dropout.  I think early on in his career, Kanye got or gained some inspiration from Jay, thus helping in get put on and more importantly stay on.   

 

[solarius49]

On another note, can you imagine if Ye signed with Dame, and we got to hear a bunch of Ye/Black Keys/Spitta music :x

 

[coldcity]

p4l.... a non forced NH thread

 

[ninjahood]

Duece king, you have to remember that ROC a fella's inception was a result

Of jay-Z's inability to get a deal so biggs & dame got they street money together and

Built a label around jay-z. You are over playing jay-z's hand at running da label.

Dame & biggs did da day to day duties...imagine jay-Z picking up his own phone calls

& BTW Freeway was a Beans discovery.

 

[deuce king]

Duece king, you have to remember that ROC a fella's inception was a result

Of jay-Z's inability to get a deal so biggs & dame got they street money together and

Built a label around jay-z. You are over playing jay-z's hand at running da label.

Dame & biggs did da day to day duties...imagine jay-Z picking up his own phone calls

& BTW Freeway was a Beans discovery.

When you think or the average hip hop fans thinks of the name Rocafella do they think of Dame & Biggs or Jay Z??

 

[ninjahood]

Duece king, you have to remember that ROC a fella's inception was a result


Of jay-Z's inability to get a deal so biggs

When you think or the average hip hop fans thinks of the name Rocafella do they think of Dame & Biggs or Jay Z??

I hope u not implying that either 3 was any less important to da creation of rocafella.

Average hiphop fans KNOW dame dash was da brains of business.

Biggs was always overlooked by design.

 

[deuce king]

Duece king, you have to remember that ROC a fella's inception was a result


Of jay-Z's inability to get a deal so biggs

When you think or the average hip hop fans thinks of the name Rocafella do they think of Dame & Biggs or Jay Z??

I hope u not implying that either 3 was any less important to da creation of rocafella.

Average hiphop fans KNOW dame dash was da brains of business.

Biggs was always overlooked by design.

The actually CREATION of Rocafella is one thing, they all equally contributed to that.  I'm talking about Rocafella threwout the years, remember they are a rap empire.  For a rap empire to exist you have to have or make good/great music which they did.  That music was mostly made and notarized by Jay.  You can have all the great business folks in the background that you want to have, but if the product is lackluster who cares.  I'm sure there are tons of music brands that havve good business people working in the mix but the music sucks, so then again who cares.  Jay put Rocafella on the map, got everything throwing the diamond up.  With that we got alot of good music, MUSIC being the main priority. 

 

[illphillip]

^^^

You're missing the mark here. It's the MUSIC BUSINESS.

The business can be as much of, if not MORE of a factor than the music. Which is why talent does not always succeed, while the talentless can go further than we'd ever imagine.

Their falling out was, by many accounts, partially do to how visible Dame was as a business man. In the videos, on the frontlines. In all the movies. Not something you see from Barry Weiss, Kev Liles, Lyor etc.

That was a critical element to the Roc's success. Much the way Puff's visibility has always been a very important part of Bad Boy's brand. In a lot of ways, Dame was flashier and had far more swagger than the "star" of the label.

You can't really say Jay put RocAFella on the map while saying they all equally played a part in it's creation. Jay had been around for ages with little success. Until he met Dame.

RocAFella became the empire it did because of the rest of the roster (Philly dudes, Kanye, Dips), movies, clothing, etc. And that was certainly not all Jay.

 

[illphillip]

When you think or the average hip hop fans thinks of the name Rocafella do they think of Dame & Biggs or Jay Z??

I think of all 3. I could care less what the "average" fan thinks.

One more thing. Irv Gotti also had a big hand in getting Jay going. Seems like him and Jay still cool too.

 

[ninjahood]

^^^

You're missing the mark here. It's the MUSIC BUSINESS.

The business can be as much of, if not MORE of a factor than the music. Which is why talent does not always succeed, while the talentless can go further than we'd ever imagine.

Their falling out was, by many accounts, partially do to how visible Dame was as a business man. In the videos, on the frontlines. In all the movies. Not something you see from Barry Weiss, Kev Liles, Lyor etc.

That was a critical element to the Roc's success. Much the way Puff's visibility has always been a very important part of Bad Boy's brand. In a lot of ways, Dame was flashier and had far more swagger than the "star" of the label.

You can't really say Jay put RocAFella on the map while saying they all equally played a part in it's creation. Jay had been around for ages with little success. Until he met Dame.

RocAFella became the empire it did because of the rest of the roster (Philly dudes, Kanye, Dips), movies, clothing, etc. And that was certainly not all Jay.

Preach.

I found 2 videos that imma post here soon as i get home.

 

[captainsneakerhead23]

What more would you like to see Jay do for these artists? As if being signed to Roc Nation isn't enough or a highlight or a way to be highlighted, it's up to the artist to put in the work from that point. Sometimes the stars align together, sometimes they don't.

I ain't even gonna debate wit you Deuce, I saw what the debate turned into between you and HARM in the "Bothched Jumping of GunPlay" thread

 

[|A-Man|]

The average hip hop fan thinks Dame and Jay when they hear the name Rocafella. The average music fan may only think Jay. You're not an average hip hop fan if you don't know Dame Dash.

I'd damn near say other than throwing up the Roc when someone thinks of it the image is Dame doing his dance in I Just Wanna Love Ya.

 

[knowledgebones72]

I thought everyone knew it was Jay, Dame, and Biggs. Jay was the rapper, Dame the businessman, Biggs the street dude "silent partner."

 

[ninjahood]

Yea, Cam did it the best. He has the whole set rockin' at one point. He definitely gave everybody a real shot to blow. The music and image (and probably business) wasn't all the way there all the time. But, his heart was in it. And he did a lot of stuff he didn't really have to do to see his team pop.

Juelz is on the most spun song in Def Jam history (at the time), almost half and half.
He's on CHWM 6 times.
The first disc of DI1 is like a Juelz Santana promo, down to the skits. He might be on DI1 more than Cam.

All setting him up for his first album. And Cam was on the lead single and in the video for that. Not to mention all the mixtape tracks and just the look in general.
"I'm a star standing next to a star. You see me, you see Cam. You see a car next to a car."




He's on like the first 4 songs on OMWTC plus Crunk Muzik. I mean, Jim was always Cam's man. Even when he was spitting super wack verse on CoF and SDE. And when it was time for Jones to make his own music, Cam was very present.

Even the second level dudes like JR Writer. Cam and Wayne on Bird Call. Both in the video. Slightly before Wayne got out of there popular. (Which The Diplomats had something to do with)...but, I'm pretty sure that's Cam's pull. He's at the radio station (a la Jay) to hype up JRs 6 minute freestyle, the Funk Flex freestyle...all that.

Hell Rell on the phone from jail on DI1. I had no idea what Hell Rell even looked like for a long time (could've stayed that way)

Even letting Casa start the album off. The day after he signed to Diplomats

50 did the same thing. And since he was a bigger star than Cam. Those guys probably were even more successful than The Dips.

But, in Jay's defense (kinda)...those weren't his friends. They just weren't. They never were. Jay is 15 years older than most of them. They're not in the same peer group. They didn't grow up together. They didn't struggle together. They didn't come up together. He doesn't know them dudes like that. Jay looked out for Bleek maybe more than Cam or 50 did for anybody on their teams (respectively)...and *that's* his man. That's his friend. His real friend. Jay was already Jay when he met them dudes.

Jay talked that "family" **** like everybody else does. But, it just wasn't that. They worked for Jay. It was a business relationship.

your whole post.



and as for da bolded part, imma put a video thats gonna really make you feel some sort of way about jay-z...imagine you a artist comin up under roc-a-fella

and you standing around this gathering and you hear dame dash say this monologue to everyone around him as far as how he feels about everyone

at da ROC.

"jay is my best friend" "we all believe in sharing"

then when you hear jay-z dont wanna be in your video, a verse on your album? ha....oh thats your beat? nah you know thats for da big homie

but we all family though....dont worry its all family though.

 

[meek meals]

Yea, Cam did it the best. He has the whole set rockin' at one point. He definitely gave everybody a real shot to blow. The music and image (and probably business) wasn't all the way there all the time. But, his heart was in it. And he did a lot of stuff he didn't really have to do to see his team pop.

Juelz is on the most spun song in Def Jam history (at the time), almost half and half.
He's on CHWM 6 times.
The first disc of DI1 is like a Juelz Santana promo, down to the skits. He might be on DI1 more than Cam.

All setting him up for his first album. And Cam was on the lead single and in the video for that. Not to mention all the mixtape tracks and just the look in general.
"I'm a star standing next to a star. You see me, you see Cam. You see a car next to a car."




He's on like the first 4 songs on OMWTC plus Crunk Muzik. I mean, Jim was always Cam's man. Even when he was spitting super wack verse on CoF and SDE. And when it was time for Jones to make his own music, Cam was very present.

Even the second level dudes like JR Writer. Cam and Wayne on Bird Call. Both in the video. Slightly before Wayne got out of there popular. (Which The Diplomats had something to do with)...but, I'm pretty sure that's Cam's pull. He's at the radio station (a la Jay) to hype up JRs 6 minute freestyle, the Funk Flex freestyle...all that.

Hell Rell on the phone from jail on DI1. I had no idea what Hell Rell even looked like for a long time (could've stayed that way)

Even letting Casa start the album off. The day after he signed to Diplomats

50 did the same thing. And since he was a bigger star than Cam. Those guys probably were even more successful than The Dips.

But, in Jay's defense (kinda)...those weren't his friends. They just weren't. They never were. Jay is 15 years older than most of them. They're not in the same peer group. They didn't grow up together. They didn't struggle together. They didn't come up together. He doesn't know them dudes like that. Jay looked out for Bleek maybe more than Cam or 50 did for anybody on their teams (respectively)...and *that's* his man. That's his friend. His real friend. Jay was already Jay when he met them dudes.

Jay talked that "family" **** like everybody else does. But, it just wasn't that. They worked for Jay. It was a business relationship.

your whole post.



and as for da bolded part, imma put a video thats gonna really make you feel some sort of way about jay-z...imagine you a artist comin up under roc-a-fella

and you standing around this gathering and you hear dame dash say this monologue to everyone around him as far as how he feels about everyone

at da ROC.

"jay is my best friend" "we all believe in sharing"

then when you hear jay-z dont wanna be in your video, a verse on your album? ha....oh thats your beat? nah you know thats for da big homie

but we all family though....dont worry its all family though.

Sorta feel sorry for Dame . . . really thought Hov was his brother

This video, or at least the audio of it would be a perfect intro to a documentary about the fall of Roc A Fella records