I'm not ashamed to admit that I'm a Christian.

[curbyourenthusiasm]

alls i came in here to do was point and laugh at ceo mal ONCE AGAIN threatening violence and talking about how "in person" things would be different........ON NIKETALK



*points and laughs*

who's worse, the dudes posting their opinion or the lame sitting at the computer, mad, like "if only this wasnt on the internet, man"


LMAO

 

[|A-Man|]

Originally Posted by sillyputty

Originally Posted by ATGD7154xBBxMZ

You can believe in a higher power and not have it be connected to any past experiences with any religion or any current dogmas. It's called deism.

As for the thread,

I didn't believe OP was advocating that vid.

I usually agree with you but...

I disagree...most deists from what ive seen of course are formerly religious people.

Is it possible? Well sure but I think its highly unlikely.     

Its rare that deists are completely original in their ideology. 

Most "spiritual" people are jaded with religious dogma and try to distance themselves by saying they believe in god but not the religion...but theres the problem.

Their belief in god is sculpted by their religious experiences. 

Some gods lived on Mt. Olympus. Other claim to speak to us mentally and other gods have their own stories. If people accept those tenets THEY ARE RELIGIOUS...they just dont want to follow the rules of that religion or be associated with it. 

They're picking and choosing. 

These "i dont believe in religion but I believe in god" former christians are annoying because they believe in the god of the bible acting in the way the god of the bible acts but refuse to call themselves what they are. They want the benefits of association by believing in god without having to really explain what they're defending.

James Madison, Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, and Thomas Jefferson were all deists. TJ specifically would shh on the idea of this nation being a founded on Christian religion and religion in general more than you have. I'm not arguing that all deists don't have or never had some religious background but I will argue that you don't need a religious background to be one same way with atheism. Just because the most you've ran in to claim they're that doesn mean that's the case for all or that it's impossible. I'm saying that those who are actual deists are not believing in a christian GOD on the low but detaching the dogma of the religion and that specific idea of a GOD. The GOD or creator in deism does not intervene, creates and dips. They don't believe in miracles, the supernatural, or prophecies. If you actually get in to what deists believes it's not at all the case that they're trying to believe in a Christianity but are picking and choosing what to believe or just trying to be more progressive in their beliefs. There's an actual logic applied in the process of their belief system and a whole philosophy behind it (of course those arguments are crushed or countered by other logical arguments but since no one is gnostic it's not like the idea is going to be completely dismissed and disregarded). The same way a person who was a christian can become an atheist is the same way a person who was a christian can become a deist. It isn't impossible or uncommon.

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by ATGD7154xBBxMZ

Originally Posted by sillyputty

Originally Posted by ATGD7154xBBxMZ

You can believe in a higher power and not have it be connected to any past experiences with any religion or any current dogmas. It's called deism.

As for the thread,

I didn't believe OP was advocating that vid.

I usually agree with you but...

I disagree...most deists from what ive seen of course are formerly religious people.

Is it possible? Well sure but I think its highly unlikely.     

Its rare that deists are completely original in their ideology. 

Most "spiritual" people are jaded with religious dogma and try to distance themselves by saying they believe in god but not the religion...but theres the problem.

Their belief in god is sculpted by their religious experiences. 

Some gods lived on Mt. Olympus. Other claim to speak to us mentally and other gods have their own stories. If people accept those tenets THEY ARE RELIGIOUS...they just dont want to follow the rules of that religion or be associated with it. 

They're picking and choosing. 

These "i dont believe in religion but I believe in god" former christians are annoying because they believe in the god of the bible acting in the way the god of the bible acts but refuse to call themselves what they are. They want the benefits of association by believing in god without having to really explain what they're defending.

James Madison, Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, and Thomas Jefferson were all deists. TJ specifically would shh on the idea of this nation being a founded on Christian religion and religion in general more than you have. I'm not arguing that all deists don't have or never had some religious background. I'm saying that those who are actual deists are not believing in a christian GOD on the low but detaching the dogma of the religion. If you actually get in to what deists believes it's not at all the case that they're trying to believe in a Christianity but are picking and choosing what to believe or just trying to be more progressive in their beliefs. There's an actual logic applied in the process of their belief system and a whole philosophy behind it (of course those arguments are crushed or countered by other logical arguments but since no one is gnostic it's not like the idea is going to be completely dismissed and disregarded). The same way a person who was a christian can become an atheist is the same way a person who was a christian can become a deist. It isn't impossible or uncommon.

No offense, but you're not really challenging what I said.
I didn't say these people didn't believe in god. Madison, Washington, and Franklin were definitely deists. TJ is on the fence. But my point in referencing them was to show that they still made america a SECULAR country that did not selectively prefer one religion over another. 

On top of that, them being deists of sorts occurred after their fall out with organized religion. 

Look at the Letter to the Danbury Baptists. They clearly didn't want religion to start gaining support and becoming a legitimate means of control. 

It doesn't mean they were atheists like Thomas Paine or David Hume was. 

These deists you named specifically are deists with respect to the CHRISTIAN TRADITION. They still upholded in their personal life many christian things and repeated a lot of christian ideology...they just might not have been associated with the church as much as we think they were. Imagine if I asserted that they supported things found in islam...you'd be taken back. (even though Jefferson shouted out the Muslims a couple of times for their wisdom as a people, not their faith)

You also have to remember that these were also amateur scientists at the time and heavily involved in the enlightenment so its very possible their spiritual beliefs were nebulous to say the least as many of them were highly educated experimenters of sorts. 

But they knew how to separate their personal lives from their professional ones. 

Politicians today don't know how to do that. Thats the problem. 

As i've said, most deists are formerly religious people who cling to a thing or two from their old experiences. 

in any case its all good man. I hope all is well with you as a sidenote. 

 

[shoefreakbaby]

Originally Posted by ILL LEGAL OPERATION

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[Hallorrann]

 

[tkthafm]

lol @ revisionist history.

None of those modern day countries you mentioned have true Islamic government. Saudi Arabia is a monarchy which in and of itself contradicts Islam. Turkey was the biggest, most secular "muslim" country for the past few decades now. They even BANNED Islamic dress. Egypt and Pakistan were/are both taking orders from the US.

The fact still stands, when the Islamic Caliphate was in power, the countries under it's influence (and all of its neighbors, including the Europeans) were better off than now with the secular governments. You raise a handful of secular movements; and I say: so what ? The vast majority rejects them. If "Islam" is in a dark age, it's because it's not even being implemented properly now. It commands followers to seek knowledge, this is fact. When it reigned and allowed for/facilitated the scientific research was at its peak, this is fact. It allowed for non-Muslims (such as the Copts, who apparently managed to thrive for the past 1400 years with little problems while being surrounded by Muslims) to worship their own religion. Yet somehow this was all a coincidence that happened and Islam should get no credit... lol

The countries in ruins today are those that let the West and "secularism" destroy them. Curbing the religious leaders is the problem in the first place. 1.5~ Billion people by definition accept that Islam is all-encompassing and should be the legal and government system; not democracy or secularism. Of course you have deviants, but put it up to truly fair elections and you will get the same response as in Egypt. If democracy is supposedly about the "rule of the people" .... the people overwhelmingly want Islam. The West knows this. Why do you think they put the dictators in the first place ? How messed up the Middle East is now is my strongest argument for why more Islam (not less) is needed. Why ? Because when Islam was ruling in all those countries, they "just so happened" to be at their best. Do you realize that what the majority of people in those countries are most proud of is the Islamic history in the first place.

 

[sillyputty]

But SillyPutty, why do you keep attacking us? Why can't we believe what we want to believe? Why do you keep talking about religion! You offend us! You're so mean to everyone. Why do you always post videos and pictures? You type a lot! Do you hate jesus? You never talk about islam so maybe allah had it right. You're worse than preachers. I hope god finds your heart! Theres nothing wrong with doing whats in the bible.






Get your religious influence out of my government.

 

[SHERLOCK87]

OH OK.. I'LL GET RIGHT ON THAT.. WHO DO I CALL?

 

[ecruteakcityboy]

i dont know what to believe any more..

 

[Gill Baka Esq. LLC.]

Sillyputty is kinda like those black Isrealites...

They may be speaking the truth but their so obnoxious you really wanna throw a bottle at their heads

 

[|A-Man|]

I was never really challenging what you were saying as far as religious ideals being involved with our government and our politics. Just the point that believing in a GOD and not a religion is a cop out for all who claim that's what they believe.

 

[savraj1]

Originally Posted by Mycoldyourdone

100k dislikes. roffles. it was like 40k a couple hours ago.

anyway this guy is trolling. making it seem like anyone can run for presidency.

And that's exactly what we're seeing. Look at the whole goddamn GOP candidacy. They're all clowns.

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by GrimlocK

A scientific mind with borders and parameters will never understand spiritual faith.

One if finite and the other is infinite.

Sillyputty you do realize that it is you that make all of the threads bashing religion/faith right? We don't come to you.

I like the option of standing in the middle myself...it allows me to make my own religion, in my own contexts, with my own rules. Sorry for not being partisan

If you're saying religion is infinite and science is finite, religious people are even dumber than  I thought.
Religion-God did it and THAT'S FINAL

Science-Knowledge is infinite, there is so much left to be discovered and we don't have all the answers but we have some answers and some theories and are in constant search of evidence.

 

[oidreez]

But why is it always science versus religion? I believe there are scientists who are religious out there.

 

[Gill Baka Esq. LLC.]

ahhh but realize Anton before you jump to conclusion I said spiritual faith not religion. The faith that I created within myself in infinite. Science will have it's boundaries...we just haven't reached those boundaries yet...and when we do what ended in science will continue as spiritual/faith/universe/coalescence/one-ness/the source.

So science will eventually lead us to something we've known all along but are able to grasp in this reality...somewhat.

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by tkthafm

How did religion "ruin" Egypt, Turkey or Pakistan ?

It's actually the exact opposite. All those countries were ruined by corrupting Western influence and a lack of adherence to Islam. Which is ironic because it was also Islam that played a major role in taking the West out of the dark ages.

For example, when Egypt was under control of the Caliphates during the Islamic golden age it was one of the biggest centers of learning and science on Earth. Things started to go down hill when religion starting playing a lesser role thanks to colonialist Westerners coming in and setting up puppet 'secular' regimes. The 'secular' dictator gets overthrown and free elections are held.... and Islamists win overwhelmingly.

@ thinking everyone in the world wants democracy and secularism.

Typical, my religion is better than yours nonsense. Egypt flourished even before Islam got there as one of the greatest civilizations that has ever existed. The pyramids and monuments in Egypt are of Egyptian Gods and Pharoahs not MUHAMMED.

 This is the same hypocrite that got mad at black people for giving credit for all discoveries to Africans doing the exact same thing.
The most non-religious countries in the world have the lowests crimes rates, lowest poverty rates and highest literacy, scientific discovery and literacy rates. 

Yea not everyone wants to live in a world were women can't be beaten if they get raped. Allah forbid.

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by GrimlocK

ahhh but realize Anton before you jump to conclusion I said spiritual faith not religion. The faith that I created within myself in infinite. Science will have it's boundaries...we just haven't reached those boundaries yet...and when we do what ended in science will continue as spiritual/faith/universe/coalescence/one-ness/the source.

So science will eventually lead us to something we've known all along but are able to grasp in this reality...somewhat.

So you made up some stuff for yourself, and you're trying to convince me that its the truth? You call it spiritualism I call it having and imagination. I believe in aliens, other universes, multiverses, wormwholes, the matrix, "Gods".  etc etc. One day this may all become reality but I'm not gonna sit here and try to pass it off as "truth" or "spirituality".
My imagination and curiosity about about natural and even supernatural world is INFINITE.

 

[mycoldyourdone]

 

[Gill Baka Esq. LLC.]

^^^

I'm not trying to convince nobody, I know within myself that i'm right...this road we walk in this life is an individual one...how can you describe the taste of sugar to somebody to the full extent without them tasting it?

You and sillyputty need to stop looking at me for answers...

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[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by GrimlocK

^^^

I'm not trying to convince nobody, I know within myself that i'm right...this road we walk in this life is an individual one...how can you describe the taste of sugar to somebody to the full extent without them tasting it?

You and sillyputty need to stop looking at me for answers...

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Me looking toyou for answers would be like me going to a witch doctor for a neurosurgical consult. 

 

[Gill Baka Esq. LLC.]

I'm saying I can't help you find faith...you and silly need to find it from within...just go to church or something stop bugging us to help you prove god....i mean...you guys act like we're in church on NT why not take it to an actual church and raise these questions?

And put it on youtube!

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by GrimlocK

I'm saying I can't help you find faith...you and silly need to find it from within...just go to church or something stop bugging us to help you prove god....i mean...you guys act like we're in church on NT why not take it to an actual church and raise these questions?

And put it on youtube!

Did I ask for your help finding "FAITH"? Religious people are so presumptuous.

 "Find it from within", who the heck do you think you are, Yoda?
LOL someone who complains about religion and "spirituality" being attacked is asking me to ask these questions in a place of worship. I don't mind people worshipping their Gods in their places of worship but outside of it and especially in the socio-political sphere I am allowed to debate and challenge their beliefs. 

Dude asking me to go door to door with pamphlets promoting "Atheism" like a Jehovah witness, that isn't part of the non-religious agenda. I'm not going on crusades spreading atheism, I'm not giving out atheist literature to poor children in Africa and telling them to accept nothing and question God. 

 

[joshyy1834]

I would read sillyputty's posts, I am interested in what he has to say, but I feel i'm getting yelled at while I read his stuff.

 

[zona0924]

Only on page 5, but I think I can see where this thread is headed.

In regards to sillyputty, dude is ALWAYS in ALL these religion threads, it's true. And I've seen him give some pretty douchey responses to others in non-religious threads. No arguments there. But when it comes to religion, THIS DUDE IS ON POINT. He provides his POV with countless examples, explanations, rebuttals which all seem to make a great deal of sense, and then when the people who do follow religion reply, they don't bring up anything substantial, only complaints that himis bringing too much information to the table.

will post later when off of work

 

[tkthafm]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by tkthafm

How did religion "ruin" Egypt, Turkey or Pakistan ?

It's actually the exact opposite. All those countries were ruined by corrupting Western influence and a lack of adherence to Islam. Which is ironic because it was also Islam that played a major role in taking the West out of the dark ages.

For example, when Egypt was under control of the Caliphates during the Islamic golden age it was one of the biggest centers of learning and science on Earth. Things started to go down hill when religion starting playing a lesser role thanks to colonialist Westerners coming in and setting up puppet 'secular' regimes. The 'secular' dictator gets overthrown and free elections are held.... and Islamists win overwhelmingly.

@ thinking everyone in the world wants democracy and secularism.

Typical, my religion is better than yours nonsense. Egypt flourished even before Islam got there as one of the greatest civilizations that has ever existed. The pyramids and monuments in Egypt are of Egyptian Gods and Pharoahs not MUHAMMED.

 This is the same hypocrite that got mad at black people for giving credit for all discoveries to Africans doing the exact same thing.
The most non-religious countries in the world have the lowests crimes rates, lowest poverty rates and highest literacy, scientific discovery and literacy rates. 

Yea not everyone wants to live in a world were women can't be beaten if they get raped. Allah forbid.

I "got mad" at people claiming achievements that never happened. 

 
In this case there's no denying the fact that when Islam ruled all the societies under it where at their best. Ancient Egypt obviously had achievements in their own right but nothing on the scale of the Islamic caliphates which bought together countless cultures and had them all living in peace under one rule.
Women getting "beaten when raped" has nothing to do with Islam. Prove me otherwise (IE: proof from Qu'ran or authentic Hadiths). That's right, it doesn't exist.