Information Technology (IT)

[osek206]

I have been researching what people are saying and I have been seeing mixed reviews. Most people are saying that you get out of it what you put in and it is not that hands on, but what MS Cyber degree in our area is super hands on and not too expensive? I really want to do GMU's program but a 50K 18month program is not feasible. What other programs are you looking at?

From what I have gathered the UMUC program seems well rounded in the aspect of technical, policy, and management. It is also well respected by the DOD and Gov't contractors in the area which is helpful. I also looked up people with the Cyber MS on linkedin and they all have good jobs , which is another good sign. I plan on backing the degree with certifications, clearance, and work experience , so I am not too worried. IMO it takes much more than a degree to break into the cyber world.

@Jay Patt
once you finish the math portion you are done forever. If your schools math is too much look into taking the classes at a local CC and transferring the credits in, much easier route only have to get a C. Also I think it is best to just finish the degree, you will need it in the long run.

I didn't look at the jobs people had with the degree on LinkedIn, smart stuff. I was more worried that I'd be
wasting time getting a MS that is basically worthless. But like you say the DOD and Gov contractor's are checkin
for the degree. It's just strange to methere are people who have the degree that cannot fine work.
But I'm sure that happens all over, especially in this day and age.

 

[capital sb]

@Osek206  I also thought the degree wouldn't hold much weight, but that's not true. People get degrees from Strayer and still flourish in the DMV area.

 I would take that with a grain of salt, a lot of people really don't try to land jobs. Applying to a job or two is not looking for a job, and it won't cut it in today's job market.You know we live in a world where people feel heavily entitled and do the bare minimum and expect above average results lol.

Something that really suck with me from the UMUC Cyber Sec panel discussion i attended yesterday (which was really good btw) was when the recruiter from Leidos said "Its all about meeting the minimum requirements for DOD contracts, but it takes much more to land a position. You must out work your competition and make yourself marketable. The biggest problem you want to have is too many options , 5+ offers at a time... ". 
 

Edit: Something interesting I just found out on the techforums is that a CISSP Associates (passing the exam, but not meeting the exp requirements) is the equivalent of holding an actual CISSP cert in the DOD world. Just food for thought.

 

[osek206]

@Osek206
 I also thought the degree wouldn't hold much weight, but that's not true. People get degrees from Strayer and still flourish in the DMV area.

 I would take that with a grain of salt, a lot of people really don't try to land jobs. Applying to a job or two is not looking for a job, and it won't cut it in today's job market.You know we live in a world where people feel heavily entitled and do the bare minimum and expect above average results lol.

Something that really suck with me from the UMUC Cyber Sec panel discussion i attended yesterday (which was really good btw) was when the recruiter from Leidos said "Its all about meeting the minimum requirements for DOD contracts, but it takes much more to land a position. You must out work your competition and make yourself marketable. The biggest problem you want to have is too many options , 5+ offers at a time... ". 

 

Edit: Something interesting I just found out on the techforums is that a CISSP Associates (passing the exam, but not meeting the exp requirements) is the equivalent of holding an actual CISSP cert in the DOD world. Just food for thought.

Good information, had no idea they had a panel this week. I do see lots of potential in the area, I'm trying to line myself
up with a solid salary man. My degree hasn't paid for itself and its pretty frustrating. All it would take is a chance in the field
but the peer groups in my particular field is trash. A bunch of old tired individuals waiting to retire at dead end jobs. I will
look more into the Cyber program because I'm interested in the overall field. Can't believe people are eating from
Strayer..wow!

 

[INTLplayers]

congrats man! i'm in the DC area as well.

still working on getting some certs but i'm with an IT company now that opened up many doors for me in the future.

Thanks!

Piece of advice to everyone doing desktop support. It's all about customer service. No one expects you to know everything, just make sure you know how to communicate properly.

 

[harryho]

I graduated in MIS and struggling trying to find a tier 1 help desk in the Bay Area. After reading some of the posts I think having A+ and Network+ certs might help me get a job.

Any way you can relocate? Bay Area is rough. Seattle, LA, Texas, and Vegas all may have better prospects.

 

[capital sb]

Good information, had no idea they had a panel this week. I do see lots of potential in the area, I'm trying to line myself
up with a solid salary man. My degree hasn't paid for itself and its pretty frustrating. All it would take is a chance in the field
but the peer groups in my particular field is trash. A bunch of old tired individuals waiting to retire at dead end jobs. I will
look more into the Cyber program because I'm interested in the overall field. Can't believe people are eating from
Strayer..wow!

yeah you would be surprised. My dad got his MS in Computer Systems from Strayer making 150K+, even people on techexams say that there are Strayer people making more than them. My dad always preached to me in the IT world it doesn't matter where your degree as from. I didn't believe him at first, but its true. A lot of people on those forums are also getting a CS degree from WGU (Western Governors University) had never heard of it until I started researching CISSP stuff.

Yeah a lot of people have been in the field forever and will be retiring soon, so right now is the best time to try to make power moves IMO.

Edit: Just talked to my pops about my UMUC decision and he told me that his friend that's a GS-15 obtained a MS in Cyber Security from UMUC. I definitely no longer have any doubts what so ever. I'm gonna cut the duel degree and only pursue the MS in Cyber to finish in 2 years. Osek I will give updates on how the program goes, and I'm interested in seeing which route you go. Goodluck !

 

[sharpshooter718]

Nice man! I am taking the same approach and probably adding in an MTA cert. So A+,Net+ and Sec+ is the goal and then hopefully some cisco certs.

I am just trying to get my foot in the door right now in the Bay Area. I've been needing a career change and I was planinng on going to school for this and getting a 2nd bachelors, but it seems like my time will be more valuable getting experience and earning more certifications.

Any insight? Also anyone in the Bay Area in the IT field?

experience amd certs are key... i know a few dudes with bachelors taking low end entry level jobs cause they have no experience... ive been getting offers alot lately since i updated my resume but this gig is pretty sweet and im gonna ride it out for the time being.

 

[spiderjericho]

@spiderjericho
 I've been researching UMUC's MS in Cyber Security & MBA Duel degree program since my company will cover the entire program (looking to start this fall). I have noticed your post in the techexam forums from a few years back (assuming that was you). Did you end up pursuing your 2nd MS at UMUC? If so how was it?

I know that their MBA program isn't ranked or anything, but my thinking is that I will get the MS in CyberSec obtain the CEH, SEC+, and CISSP (in accordance with DOD 8750) to help move into cyber roles and the MBA will help me with managerial positions. If a company wants me to get an Executive MBA from a top school then I will pursue that to move up the ranks (on their dime of course).

Do you think this is a good plan? I am not sure how long it would take for me to be able to sit for the CISSP though since I just graduated and have only been working for 4 months. There is an experience requirement of 3 years right?

I don't have a Master's degree. I have two bachelors. I'd like to pursue the MISA from WGU but I've kind of been tied up with military schools this past fall and winter.

I did attend UMUC for a Bachelors in Journalism/Communication. I thought the school was difficult compared to folks I knew attending Strayer, Phoenix, AMU, etc. They've since changed it but semesters used to be 16-weeks. They were big on class participation, reading. The classes were tougher than any of the classes I took at Miami Dade or Florida International University lol. It was like they were battling for legitimacy and the stigma of online schools. It was definitely challenging and felt the classes related to my major applied things I've done on the job.

I looked at their Cyber Security Degree. It looked okay. University of South Florida here in Tampa has a Mean Cyber Security program. I don't meet the math or programming requirements.

And the secret to the DoD is get your foot in the door lol. Cyber Security is big right now. All of the services are ramping up or developing a cyber force. Sec+, CISA, CISSP and CEH (or SANS certs) are good tier 2/3 certs to have.

I was at one place doing Network Admin (which is what I want to do post military) and these contractors only had a requirement for Sec+. The DoD however required the contractors to eventually get CISSP, CCNA and maybe something else. The contractors would obviously send these people to get the certifications to meet the requirement. Depends on where you can get in. Some can lead to a great launching pad. In some cases not. The place I work right now has some folks in dead end desktop support gigs. It's hard work. Yeesh.

 

[capital sb]

@spiderjericho  Yeah that pretty much sounds like what I have been hearing that their classes are really intense , requiring countless hours.

What makes you want to pursue the WGU program? The courses seem pretty much identical to UMUC's Cyber degree (course description wise) , but I see WGU is heavily talked about on techexam forums. Why is WGU's MISA program suggested by so many members there? I will look into USF's program not sure if they have an online program.

I'm not worried about getting my foot in the door I chose defense contracting over DoD , just making sure I am DoD compliant so I will be competitive for contracts once I complete my MS. More worried about switching from software development to cyber/upper management. 

 

[spiderjericho]

WGU and UMUC are opposite ends of the spectrum. Both achieve the desired result...the key is that they're for different market segments.

When I completed my journalism degree with UMUC, I had three years of college (course they didn't take all of my transferred credits), interned as a writer for the Miami Herald and later wrote for a military newspaper (and completed probably 6 months of intensive military journalism/editing/photography training). I had the experience just needed a degree. And I HATED taking courses through UMUC for the reasons I stated. Participation (3-6 posts a week), Reading Modules (on top of the other supplemental reading/books), writing assignments/projects and a final test over a course of 12 to 16 weeks. It seriously was harder than community college, university and military training. This loathing exploded when I had to take Biology. I had already taken a science toward my associates and they were making me do it again. And like a REAL science class, you have to complete a lab and written course. It was crazy. The lab drove me nutty. I was in the military, living in the dormitory and had to buy all this crazy stuff to experiment on. It was definitely inconvenient. It turned me off from school. I didn't complete UMUC degree until my 30s. Again, it's a good program. It'll challenge you especially if you have 0 experience. They've shortened the semesters.

With WGU, as an older African gentleman, I don't have as much time especially in the military and with a special needs daughter. WGU takes a competency based approach toward education. Pass the assessment, demonstrate course mastery and you can move on. The MISA is supposed to align with the domains of CISSP. I've already passed that certification and am very familiar with network security. So the MISA is just a check in the box/validation for recruiters once I retire from active duty. It's going to be a lot of writing but I'm comfortable with that.

I'll still have my GI Bill and will most likely pursue another Master's or PhD after retire. Like I said in my last post, can't really commit to any school right now. I'm instead going to focus on recovering my CASP, getting Linux+ and maybe a few ISACA certs.

Having said that, I can't do the Univ of Phx thing either. I've heard some really bad things about their for profit program. Knew two Marines that broke down their experiences and the program for me. Just seems like a degree mill. WGU seems like a good, cheap option for older experienced students. Plus you can get a few certs on the way. I wouldn't really recommend it for a kid right out of high school, IMO.

 

[capital sb]

@spiderjericho  Thanks for the informative breakdown. I definitely see your point about UMUC being very intense when it comes to writing, participation, etc. It is the one thing I am worried about. I don't want to come home from work have to read an entire book then write a paper or post about it. Pretty much sounds like the BIO class I took during my last semester of undergrad , it was too time consuming. 

I guess I will have to decide if I want to start UMUC in the fall or pursue a different university .

 

[and1play5]

Just got my A+, working on Linux+ & CCNA now, gonna be studying like a mad man for the next few months, signed up on Linux Academy too

 

[tomdiginson]

Anyone know of any good test prep guides and or practice exams for the net+ exam ?

 

[spiderjericho]

@spiderjericho
 Thanks for the informative breakdown. I definitely see your point about UMUC being very intense when it comes to writing, participation, etc. It is the one thing I am worried about. I don't want to come home from work have to read an entire book then write a paper or post about it. Pretty much sounds like the BIO class I took during my last semester of undergrad , it was too time consuming. 

I guess I will have to decide if I want to start UMUC in the fall or pursue a different university .

My first few semesters were probably 3 classes. It definitely burned me out.

One class a semester might not be so bad. Just understand the time table you set yourself on. Prior to being stationed in Tampa, I was always somewhere remote and didn't have access to a physical B&M college. If I did, I would've easily pursued that. Just more convenient and not the UMUC homocidal genocial maniacal work flow.

and1play5 that's a great start. If you added Net+/Sec+, it would definitely qualify you for a junior network admin job (not sure of your experience).

I was talking to a coworker about these CE scams. These certification companies have you by the gonads. Besides M$, they want you to continually pay CE or recertify.

Obviously, you have to stay current and up to date which is the onus of 8570/8140 (besides maintaining a security certification).

 

[spiderjericho]

Anyone know of any good test prep guides and or practice exams for the net+ exam ?

Mike Myers used to get a good rep for cert guides. I think Todd Lammle might have one as well.

Professor Messer has free videos I believe.

If your employer has a skill soft account, you can take the practice test on there. Techexam used to have a free practice exam on its front page.

 

[and1play5]

Thanks @spiderjericho Sec+ is part of this term for me too. I've literally only worked helpdesk for the past 7+ years (26 now). I'm hoping the skill I learn accompanied with the certs can get me that networking job. Any recommendations for Sec+ books or study guides?

 

[spiderjericho]

I'd check Techexam. There's one book everyone raves about but I can't remember the authors name. The author actually posts in the forum too.

I watched the Keith Barker CBT Nuggets not long ago. He's great but I can't really remember how much it applied to the exam. I feel like CBT Nuggets covers 50-70% of an exam. I think Professor Messer has vids for these too (again not completely sure).

Mid and expert certs definitely help to break through the ceiling but obviously experience is the best thing.

 

[capital sb]

@spiderjericho  I just looked into John Hopkins program and it seems pretty good . They have an online program and were ranked #5 for Best IT Grad program and #12 for Online Graduate Engineering programs by US News. I like the courses that they offer they seem to be really technical. I would have to assume a school like John Hopkins won't be as writing and reading intensive as UMUC. Just need to confirm if it is NSA CAE/IAE certified program.

Heres a link to the program requirements :

http://ep.jhu.edu/graduate-programs/cybersecurity/cybersecurity-program-requirements

Edit: John Hopkins is CAE/IAE & CAE/R certified

Side note : Booz Allen's VP is currently pursuing a MS in Cyber at UMUC (found searching on linkedin)

 

[Mark Antony]

Good to see education options. About to enroll in the it management BS from WGU, then look at Virginia Tech's MIT/MBA program later. Hopefully someone will be willing to pay for it then, or i'll have enough saved up.

 

[sharpshooter718]

Professor messor has good youtube vids

 

[superb]

Im going to have to read this thread all over again. Been slippin on my tech knowledge

I have a cousin who interested in going into tech.

Is A+ still a good cert to start out with these days if not what? Cousin want to get into help desk, tech support repairing electronics computers that sort of stuff

 

[sharpshooter718]

Im going to have to read this thread all over again. Been slippin on my tech knowledge


I have a cousin who interested in going into tech.

Is A+ still a good cert to start out with these days if not what? Cousin want to get into help desk, tech support repairing electronics computers that sort of stuff

A+ is the backbone... if you pass the A+ the Net+ is 50 percent A+ questions probably more... studying for the sec+ right now

 

[Original Playa Records]

What are some IT job titles you guys have been applying for or have applied for in the past? My vocabulary is pretty limited.

 

[omgitswes]

Been at my current gig for a little over a year and now looking for something else. IT and InfoSec positions seem to be limited around the areas I'm looking in, I work in the defense industry now and want to get away from it. Haven't found much of anything worth applying for.

 

[sharpshooter718]

What are some IT job titles you guys have been applying for or have applied for in the past? My vocabulary is pretty limited.

what do u do now?