IS KOBE BRYANT...OVERRATED?

[hometownhero]

30K+ Points scored
17 seasons in the NBA
Career 25.5 ppg

That's better than what you posted if we aren't being biased.

No it's not!

First off, those last 3 Kobe item just shows you were trying to build a list that was longer than Magic's, regardless of what is on the list. Might as well also add that Kobe wore 2 numbers and Magic only wore one. Put that Kobe went from fro to bald. That counts, right? Also had a signature line with 2 major sneaker companies.

Moving on...



As rookies, Magic made the All Rookie first team, and Kobe made the All Rookie second team.
Advantage: Magic

9 is more than 7, correct? 5-4 in the Finals is better than 5-2, right? They both have 5 wins, but one has 9 appearances and the other has 7. (don't even try that "That just means he lost more times than Kobe" foolishness; 9 appearances > 7 appearances, if we're being unbiased)
Advantage: Magic

3 > 2, right? They both won 5 Finals, but one was the MVP 3 times, and the other was the MVP 2 times.
Advantage: Magic

Regular season MVPs? 3 > 1
Advantage: Magic

Kobe, for the most part, is known as a scorer. Right? Magic, for the most part, was known as a passer. Right? Kobe lead the league in scoring... what he does best... 2 times. Magic lead the league in assists... what he does best... 4 times. 4 > 2
Advantage: Magic

Also, Kobe is number 5 on the all time scoring list, while Magic is number 4 on the all time assist list.
4 is higher than 5, so again, in terms of what they do best...
Advantage: Magic

Triple doubles? They should both have equal opportunity to get those, right?
Magic has 138; Kobe has 17
Advantage: Magic

Defense? Magic lead the league in steals twice; Kobe was All NBA Defensive First Team 9 times. The steals leader is something you earn; it's based just on the numbers. Being named to the All NBA teams is voted on. We'll just call this one even.

Naismith Prep Player the Year? that has nothing to do with the Lakers, because that was before the Lakers... but Magic's NCAA Championship has nothing to do with the Lakers either. Championships are why we watch sports, right?
Advantage: Magic

Now, about Magic's number being retired and being named top 50 and being in the HOF, obviously Kobe's career isn't over, and he will undoubtedly accomplish 2 of those 3 things, maybe all 3, so we'll say they're even here, too.

I was going to highlight this to comment on the absurd things you listed and found damn near the whole thing hilarious. From you saying the total points scored and career points per game doesn't matter but career triple doubles is a key factor to you implying Kobe won't do all 3 of those last things you listed. Kobe being player of the year in high school doesn't mean anything as a Laker but Magic's college title is relevant. Being the steals leader isn't comparable to being first team all defense for 10 years. Be patient with those all time lists, Kobes moving up. Either you're very committed to the role (troll as people here say) you're playing or that girl in Colorado was a relative.Or you're related to Magic Johnson. 

 

[PRIME]

PRIME's jimmies are in 'Fully Rustled' status.


Alright, alright, alright... I'm about to do something that nobody ever does on NT: revise what I said and agree with something said by folks on the other side. [QUOTE name="CP"]
Originally Posted by CP 

Do you only remember Kobe's career this year and last or something? Honest question.


Kobe wasn't a top notch defender from 99 to 2009? That didn't happen? Hell, what was his role in the 08 Olympics? That's towards the end of his career man, you forgot what he was doin in 00, 01, 02, 03 etc?

Fair enough.
[QUOTE name="hometownhero"]
Originally Posted by hometownhero 

That's why he has been given the assignment to guard the point as of late and has done a pretty damn good job at it. Kobe's D was great at one point. No one expected it to be the same all this time later. The man is getting older. Father time has never lost a battle and never will. Age catches up to everyone.

True story.
[QUOTE name="Nako XL"]
Originally Posted by Nako XL 

And Ska, you know damn well Magic wasn't a great man up defender.  He used to get cooked regularly.  A.I. led the league in steals 3 years in a row.  Was he a great defender?

Y'all, right; Kobe's definitely the better defender.


Funny how everyone jumped on the paragraph I felt the least confident about, though. CP, I get where you're coming from in not even wanting to engage in the discussion because we're talking about 2 of your favorites; for you, it's like arguing who your favorite child is.


But if you other 2 are trying to paint Kobe better than Magic, what happened to everything else I said?

9 Finals > 7 Finals

3 Finals MVPs > 2 FMVPs

3 MVPs > 1 MVP

all time rank at what they did best: #4 (in 13 years) > #5 (in 17 years)

best at what he did for 4 seasons > best at what he did for 2 seasons

triple doubles: 138 > 17


Jumped all over my defense paragraph, though.


*waits for PRIME to quote me and point out how numbers don't lie and people don't want to see the truth and there's no point in shining light in a thread like this*


*dies waiting*

[/QUOTE]


So you're going to stand here and say Kobe is overrated?


I'm saying, look at the mans accomplishments. Just because he doesn't have more MVP's that means he's overrated?


Just because he's had help, that means his individual accomplishments are overrated?


So just because we can put this > that, it means the man is overrated?


Did I say Magic wasn't better than Kobe?


Was this thread about Magics career or Kobe being "overrated"? This **** has nothing to do with Magic Johnson.


Is Steve Nash overrated? Are Dirk, Duncan, KG, and Ray Allen all overrated? Because the last time I checked


5 rings > 4 rings

5 rings > 1 ring

5 rings > no rings


Hell, if we're playing the math game Shaq must be overrated as well because he doesn't have 5 either right?


EVERYONE is overrated because Bill Russel has 11 ******g rings


Thats why this entire discussion is stupid and its clear that its just a bunch of hate. Name any single player that you would take over Kobe Bryant between 2006-2010 that would bench him or take his spot on your team all together?


MVP season, 2 rings, 2 finals MVP's, 3 gold medals in a 6 year span and he's overrated?




Yeah, your opinion isn't driven by some sort of hatred AT ALL..


OH, but Magic Johnson has more MVP's and has gone to the finals more times so by those standards Kobe MUST be overrated because his stats aren't greater than another players from ANOTHER era.


Your logic makes no type of sense, which is why I even said anything in the first place. Just because someone hasn't done as much as the next person, that makes them overrated? By your logic, Magic earned all of his and Kobe hasn't? Just because he has more?[/QUOTE]

You asked a lot of questions, the answer to most of which are no, which means that if it were a real conversation, there would have been no need for you to continue.

For example, "You're going to sit here and say Kobe is overrated?"

No.

"Just because he had help he's overrated?"

No.

"Did I say Magic was better?"

No. Maybe. I don't know, but someone mentioned Magic, so I responded. Keep up.

"Russell has 11, so is everyone overrated?"

No.

Why are you in here again? You're clearly just skimming through so you can find little tidbits of the conversation to laugh at.

We're trying to talk. Pay attention or go back to the cartoons. Don't have to really pay any attention to those.
[/quote]

RIIIIIIIGHT

The thread is titled "Is Kobe Overrated"

So because I'm justifying Kobe not being overrated, I must not know what I'm talking about or must not be reading.

Did you not ask for my response? I thought you were "waiting" for it. You got what you asked for. Don't try to play administrator now.

*waits for PRIME to quote me and point out how numbers don't lie and people don't want to see the truth and there's no point in shining light in a thread like this*

*dies waiting*

As a Lakers fan, its really hard to understand how you would think the man is overrated. Seeing as to how he's brought you so many great moments to watch as a fan. Which leads me to wonder whether you're trolling (the irony of that) or not.

You're logic is "He did more, so the guy who did less is overrated"

Doing less =/= overrated. And thats the point I'm making.

Don't flip flop. The thread title is "Is Kobe Bryant Overrated?" not "Has Kobe accomplished more than _______?"

I have pointed out things in which I believe is why Kobe is not overrated. So if anything, I am on topic. So..... Where is the problem Mr. Administrator?

 

[hometownhero]

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[/td][/tr][tr][td][table][tr][td][/td][td] [/td][/tr][/table][/td][/tr][tr][td] [/td][td][table][tr][td] ALL TIME LEADERS: POINTS[/td][/tr][tr][td]   PLAYER[/td][td]G[/td][td]FG[/td][td]FT[/td][td]PPG[/td][td]PTS[/td][/tr][tr][td]  1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar[/td][td]1,560[/td][td]15,837[/td][td]6,712[/td][td]24.6[/td][td]38,387[/td][/tr][tr][td]  2. Karl Malone[/td][td]1,476[/td][td]13,528[/td][td]9,787[/td][td]25.0[/td][td]36,928[/td][/tr][tr][td]  3. Michael Jordan[/td][td]1,072[/td][td]12,192[/td][td]7,327[/td][td]30.1[/td][td]32,292[/td][/tr][tr][td]  4. Wilt Chamberlain[/td][td]1,045[/td][td]12,681[/td][td]6,057[/td][td]30.1[/td][td]31,419[/td][/tr][tr][td]  5. Kobe Bryant[/td][td]1,209[/td][td]10,757[/td][td]7,703[/td][td]25.5[/td][td]30,813[/td][/tr][tr][td]  6. Shaquille O'Neal[/td][td]1,207[/td][td]11,330[/td][td]5,935[/td][td]23.7[/td][td]28,596[/td][/tr][tr][td]  7. Moses Malone[/td][td]1,329[/td][td]9,435[/td][td]8,531[/td][td]20.6[/td][td]27,409[/td][/tr][tr][td]  8. Elvin Hayes[/td][td]1,303[/td][td]10,976[/td][td]5,356[/td][td]21.0[/td][td]27,313[/td][/tr][tr][td]  9. Hakeem Olajuwon[/td][td]1,238[/td][td]10,749[/td][td]5,423[/td][td]21.8[/td][td]26,946[/td][/tr][tr][td]  10. Oscar Robertson[/td][td]1,040[/td][td]9,508[/td][td]7,694[/td][td]25.7[/td][td]26,710[/td][/tr][tr][td]  11. Dominique Wilkins[/td][td]1,074[/td][td]9,963[/td][td]6,031[/td][td]24.8[/td][td]26,668[/td][/tr][tr][td]  12. John Havlicek[/td][td]1,270[/td][td]10,513[/td][td]5,369[/td][td]20.8[/td][td]26,395[/td][/tr][tr][td]  13. Alex English[/td][td]1,193[/td][td]10,659[/td][td]4,277[/td][td]21.5[/td][td]25,613[/td][/tr][tr][td]  14. Reggie Miller[/td][td]1,389[/td][td]8,241[/td][td]6,237[/td][td]18.2[/td][td]25,279[/td][/tr][tr][td]  15. Jerry West[/td][td]932[/td][td]9,016[/td][td]7,160[/td][td]27.0[/td][td]25,192[/td][/tr][tr][td]  16. Kevin Garnett[/td][td]1,302[/td][td]10,019[/td][td]4,758[/td][td]19.2[/td][td]24,967[/td][/tr][tr][td]  17. Patrick Ewing[/td][td]1,183[/td][td]9,702[/td][td]5,392[/td][td]21.0[/td][td]24,815[/td][/tr][tr][td]  18. Dirk Nowitzki[/td][td]1,073[/td][td]8,530[/td][td]6,046[/td][td]22.7[/td][td]24,401[/td][/tr][tr][td]  19. Allen Iverson[/td][td]914[/td][td]8,467[/td][td]6,375[/td][td]26.7[/td][td]24,368[/td][/tr][tr][td]  20. Charles Barkley[/td][td]1,073[/td][td]8,435[/td][td]6,349[/td][td]22.1[/td][td]23,757[/td][/tr][tr][td]  21. Paul Pierce[/td][td]1,072[/td][td]7,700[/td][td]6,306[/td][td]21.9[/td][td]23,467[/td][/tr][tr][td]  22. Ray Allen[/td][td]1,191[/td][td]8,195[/td][td]4,230[/td][td]19.7[/td][td]23,412[/td][/tr][tr][td]  23. Robert Parish[/td][td]1,611[/td][td]9,614[/td][td]4,106[/td][td]14.5[/td][td]23,334[/td][/tr][tr][td]  24. Tim Duncan[/td][td]1,154[/td][td]9,015[/td][td]5,242[/td][td]20.2[/td][td]23,300[/td][/tr][tr][td]  25. Adrian Dantley[/td][td]955[/td][td]8,169[/td][td]6,832[/td][td]24.3[/td][td]23,177[/td][/tr][tr][td]  26. Elgin Baylor[/td][td]846[/td][td]8,693[/td][td]5,763[/td][td]27.4[/td][td]23,149[/td][/tr][tr][td]  27. Clyde Drexler[/td][td]1,086[/td][td]8,335[/td][td]4,698[/td][td]20.4[/td][td]22,195[/td][/tr][tr][td]  28. Gary Payton[/td][td]1,335[/td][td]8,708[/td][td]3,265[/td][td]16.3[/td][td]21,813[/td][/tr][tr][td]  29. Larry Bird[/td][td]897[/td][td]8,591[/td][td]3,960[/td][td]24.3[/td][td]21,791[/td][/tr][tr][td]  30. Vince Carter[/td][td]1,033[/td][td]7,917[/td][td]4,311[/td][td]21.0[/td][td]21,733[/td][/tr][/table][/td][td] [/td][/tr][tr][td]

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Kobe like 600 behind the 4 spot and 1400 behind the 3. How long you think that's go stay like that? 

 

[darthska]

I didn't say total points don't matter, though. So there's that.

Also didn't say that Kobe's HS award doesn't matter but Magic's NCAA championship does matter. So there's that. (What I said was that NEITHER matter in terms of the Lakers, but if we're going to include them, then obviously a college championship trumps a HS award; disagree? Feel free... but don't say I said one doesn't count and the other one does.)

You mentioned that Kobe is a top 5 scorer... then asked if Magic is a top 5 assist guy... AS IF IT'S NOT PLAINLY STATED IN MY VERY RESPONSE YOU QUOTED.

Yes, Magic's a top 5 assist guy. #4, champ.

Thanks for playing.

RIF

 

[darthska]

Did you not ask for my response? I thought you were "waiting" for it. You got what you asked for. Don't try to play administrator now.

*waits for PRIME to quote me and point out how numbers don't lie and people don't want to see the truth and there's no point in shining light in a thread like this*

*dies waiting*

I didn't get what I asked for, though. I didn't just ask for a response (which you gave). I said I was waiting for another one of your "Yeah, kill these dudes w/ numbers! They can't handle the truth!" responses. I didn't get that. You just showed up and said "Hi! You asked for me, here I am, w/ some really big font."

My point is simply that if all you're going to do is play cheerleader, you're not contributing, and not being taken seriously. Not breaking the rules, but just saying, you're literally contributing nothing to 'your side'.

 

[mertonhanks]

Love how dudes bring up Kobes scoring numbers but never how hes taken more shots than ANY and EVERY other player in the history of the game, Missed the most FGs out of ANY and EVERY player in the history of the game and those numbers arent getting smaller. Guys never even shot 47% in a season.


And that 5 rings argument is Hilarious. Always a personal accomplishment when talking about Kobe.

 

[CP1708]

Love how dudes bring up Kobes scoring numbers but never how hes taken more shots than ANY and EVERY other player in the history of the game, Missed the most FGs out of ANY and EVERY player in the history of the game and those numbers arent getting smaller. Guys never even shot 47% in a season.


.

Most shots attempted, NBA history.


Kareem 28,307
Malone 26,210
MJ 24,537
Hayes 24,272
Havlicek 23,930

Kobe 23,720


You were saying?

So, the dudes that take the most shots, score the most points, is that how that works?

I always thought Kobe was just given point totals like they do in pinball or some ****.


Oh hey, remember, Kobe, 17+ years, MJ, 13+ years. 24500+ in less years than Kobe at 23700 huh? Oh. Should you mention that, or should I?

 

[mertonhanks]

Oh, my bad, he DOESNT have the most shot attempts in NBA history yet still holds the title for most Missed shots in NBA history, even better

 

[memo]

"only Mambas have no conscience to shoot the ball that much" - Kobe Bryant 

 

[nako xl]

^ Ska, is Kobe overrated?

 

[powerballin]

^

= "I really want to say something, but have nothing intelligent or valuable to say."

'Overrated' doesn't mean 'sucks'.

Some argue Kobe as GOAT, some top 3 or 5... and MANY disagree w/ that. If he realistically belongs in the top 10-15 and a ton of people have him in the top 1-5, then the argument can definitely be made that he is RATED OVER (swidt?) what he should be rated.

Hence the thread, a pretty large and popular one, I might add.

Doesn't mean he sucks, though.

Um you might as well called me a "hater" if you just want to throw out silly remarks because I choose not to continue in such a ridiculous thread.  I actually added alot of "intelligent and valuable" things probably 80 pages ago.  Thats whats sad about the thread. Its gone this long and the same people are beating the same dead horse.  But don't let me stop you....carry on

 

[nako xl]

Welp.  Ska you can sit in your ivory tower and hate on Kobe's methods all you want, but the one's who matter recognize that his system works.

 

[darthska]

 

[Jordan8]

Kobe ever shoot 93% for 31? Just a random question

 

[mister friendly]

CP1708 is killing yall in here

 

[hometownhero]

30K+ Points scored
17 seasons in the NBA
Career 25.5 ppg

That's better than what you posted if we aren't being biased.

No it's not!

First off, those last 3 Kobe item just shows you were trying to build a list that was longer than Magic's, regardless of what is on the list. Might as well also add that Kobe wore 2 numbers and Magic only wore one. Put that Kobe went from fro to bald. That counts, right? Also had a signature line with 2 major sneaker companies.

Moving on...



 

I didn't say total points don't matter, though. So there's that.

Also didn't say that Kobe's HS award doesn't matter but Magic's NCAA championship does matter. So there's that. (What I said was that NEITHER matter in terms of the Lakers, but if we're going to include them, then obviously a college championship trumps a HS award; disagree? Feel free... but don't say I said one doesn't count and the other one does.)

You mentioned that Kobe is a top 5 scorer... then asked if Magic is a top 5 assist guy... AS IF IT'S NOT PLAINLY STATED IN MY VERY RESPONSE YOU QUOTED.

Yes, Magic's a top 5 assist guy. #4, champ.

Thanks for playing.

RIF

The large print in the first quote is saying total points don't matter. "regardless of what's on the list"....You've gone back on what you said so many times it's ridiculous. And if nothing besides what's done in a Laker uni matter, how does Magic have the advantage? Playing what? What's RIF?

 

[uncalled4boy]

Kobe demanded to be traded to the Clippers.........................................................

A Little Bird Said Magic Advised Him To Request A Trade To Force Management Into Improving The Team.

 

[jumpmanfromdabay]

 

[Jordan8]

A Little Bird Said Magic Advised Him To Request A Trade To Force Management Into Improving The Team.

Sure

 

[Jordan8]

Most shots attempted, NBA history.


Kareem 28,307
Malone 26,210
MJ 24,537
Hayes 24,272
Havlicek 23,930

Kobe 23,720


You were saying?

So, the dudes that take the most shots, score the most points, is that how that works?

I always thought Kobe was just given point totals like they do in pinball or some ****.


Oh hey, remember, Kobe, 17+ years, MJ, 13+ years. 24500+ in less years than Kobe at 23700 huh? Oh. Should you mention that, or should I?

So how does an efficient scorer like Kobe still hold the record for most missed shots if he isnt even in the top 5 in attempts?

 

[kingfoamnyc]

Zing 

 

[CP1708]

Most shots attempted, NBA history.


Kareem 28,307
Malone 26,210
MJ 24,537
Hayes 24,272
Havlicek 23,930

Kobe 23,720


You were saying?

So, the dudes that take the most shots, score the most points, is that how that works?

I always thought Kobe was just given point totals like they do in pinball or some ****.


Oh hey, remember, Kobe, 17+ years, MJ, 13+ years. 24500+ in less years than Kobe at 23700 huh? Oh. Should you mention that, or should I?

So how does an efficient scorer like Kobe still hold the record for most missed shots if he isnt even in the top 5 in attempts?

Where do you see it say efficient scorer? Who claimed him to be that?

And pretty sure he has more missed because he is playing outside unlike Kareem, Malone and Hayes who play under the hoop. In fact the top 15 guys in terms of made field goals are all big men, outside of MJ, Kobe, and Havlicek.

Guards shoot further awyay, so they should miss more shots than guys that play next to the rim, correct?

 

[Jordan8]

Where do you see it say efficient scorer? Who claimed him to be that?

And pretty sure he has more missed because he is playing outside unlike Kareem, Malone and Hayes who play under the hoop. In fact the top 15 guys in terms of made field goals are all big men, outside of MJ, Kobe, and Havlicek.

Guards shoot further awyay, so they should miss more shots than guys that play next to the rim, correct?

Nope. Kobe is the only guard in the top 5 of most missed shots.

I mean if people are so quick to bring up he has 30k points wouldn't it be as important to add that he has missed the most shots in NBA history without even being in the top 5 in attempts?

 

[CP1708]

Where do you see it say efficient scorer? Who claimed him to be that?

And pretty sure he has more missed because he is playing outside unlike Kareem, Malone and Hayes who play under the hoop. In fact the top 15 guys in terms of made field goals are all big men, outside of MJ, Kobe, and Havlicek.

Guards shoot further awyay, so they should miss more shots than guys that play next to the rim, correct?

Nope. Kobe is the only guard in the top 5 of most missed shots.

I mean if people are so quick to bring up he has 30k points wouldn't it be as important to add that he has missed the most shots in NBA history without even being in the top 5 in attempts?

I don't know, he's 6th, is 5th to 6th so important?

He takes, makes, and misses a lot of shots over 17 years. And?

Everyone that has 30K points, has a lot of takes, makes and misses. I'm not seeing a point here.

Kobe has the most misses, ok. Congrats?

 

[mertonhanks]

^ Downplaying his inefficiency, but never when it comes to 30k points. Just in case you werent aware 4 other players have scored 30,000 points. But no one has many missed shots as Kobe. Atleast hes #1 on the list at something