IS KOBE BRYANT...OVERRATED?

[darthska]

I'm starting to feel more and more sorry for people who use the word hater. Because it's becoming increasingly evident that they have no idea how to contribute to a discussion, but they really, really, really want to say... SOMETHING. Anything. Poor dudes just want to say something even though they have no intelligent response/rebuttal.

 

[shoeking2101]

But who was Finals MVP?

Magic had 3
Shaq has 3
kobe only 2 but somehow he's the best right?

check out Magic Johnson's facts


5× NBA champion (1980, 1982, 1985, 1987–198
3× NBA Finals MVP (1980, 1982, 1987)
3× NBA Most Valuable Player (1987, 1989–1990)
12× NBA All-Star (1980, 1982–1992)
2× NBA All-Star Game MVP (1990, 1992)
9× All-NBA First Team (1983–1991)
All-NBA Second Team (1982)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (1980)
4× NBA assists leader (1983–1984), (1986–1987)
2× NBA steals leader (1982–1983)
NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team
NCAA champion (1979)
Los Angeles Lakers #32 retired

We gonna need to see your top ten list.

5× NBA champion (2000–2002, 2009–2010)
2× NBA Finals MVP (2009–2010)
NBA Most Valuable Player (200
15× NBA All-Star (1998, 2000–2013)
4× NBA All-Star Game MVP (2002, 2007, 2009, 2011)
2× NBA scoring champion (2006–2007)
10× All-NBA First Team (2002–2004, 2006–2012)
2× All-NBA Second Team (2000–2001)
2× All-NBA Third Team (1999, 2005)
9× NBA All-Defensive First Team (2000, 2003–2004, 2006–2011)
3× NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2001–2002, 2012)
NBA All-Rookie Second Team (1997)
NBA Slam Dunk Contest champion (1997)
Naismith Prep Player of the Year (1996)
2x Olympic Gold Medalist
30K+ Points scored
17 seasons in the NBA
Career 25.5 ppg

That's better than what you posted if we aren't being biased. Facts are facts. Kobe, in his 17th season is proving his abilities as a playmaker. It is very plausible that had he started his career in this fashion, he would probably be a better playmaker than magic. He's 6'6, much more athletic, and has a superior handle. That being said, I will say that Magic is a better playmaker than Kobe but that's it. Kobe's a better scorer, shooter, and defender.

Kobe is without a doubt the best Laker of all time. And for good measure, Magic has said it himself.

And you don't want to see my top 10 of all time. Rustled, Jimmies would be rustled.

 

[4shoposite]

But Magics team wouldn't be losing the way the Lakers are this seaaon.

Thats what I argue with my friends
. For as skilled, tough, and talented Kobe is...its always been is if hes missing something that the Magic Birds and Jordans had. Hell...I dont think Lebron will ever have a losing season like this. Kobes just missing something under the surface.

 

[darthska]

[quote name="shoeking2101"][quote name="Do Be Doo"]
But who was Finals MVP?

Magic had 3
Shaq has 3
kobe only 2 but somehow he's the best right?

check out Magic Johnson's facts


5× NBA champion (1980, 1982, 1985, 1987–198
3× NBA Finals MVP (1980, 1982, 1987)
3× NBA Most Valuable Player (1987, 1989–1990)
12× NBA All-Star (1980, 1982–1992)
2× NBA All-Star Game MVP (1990, 1992)
9× All-NBA First Team (1983–1991)
All-NBA Second Team (1982)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (1980)
4× NBA assists leader (1983–1984), (1986–1987)
2× NBA steals leader (1982–1983)
NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team
NCAA champion (1979)
Los Angeles Lakers #32 retired[/quote]
5× NBA champion (2000–2002, 2009–2010)
2× NBA Finals MVP (2009–2010)
NBA Most Valuable Player (200
15× NBA All-Star (1998, 2000–2013)
4× NBA All-Star Game MVP (2002, 2007, 2009, 2011)
2× NBA scoring champion (2006–2007)
10× All-NBA First Team (2002–2004, 2006–2012)
2× All-NBA Second Team (2000–2001)
2× All-NBA Third Team (1999, 2005)
9× NBA All-Defensive First Team (2000, 2003–2004, 2006–2011)
3× NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2001–2002, 2012)
NBA All-Rookie Second Team (1997)
NBA Slam Dunk Contest champion (1997)
Naismith Prep Player of the Year (1996)
2x Olympic Gold Medalist
30K+ Points scored
17 seasons in the NBA
Career 25.5 ppg

That's better than what you posted if we aren't being biased.[/quote]No it's not!

First off, those last 3 Kobe item just shows you were trying to build a list that was longer than Magic's, regardless of what is on the list. Might as well also add that Kobe wore 2 numbers and Magic only wore one. Put that Kobe went from fro to bald. That counts, right? Also had a signature line with 2 major sneaker companies. Moving on...

Ok, first off, Magic played from 80 to 92, 13 years. Kobe is in his 17th year. So right off the bat, Kobe has an extra 4 years. Let's remember that.

Now getting to serious stuff...

As rookies, Magic made the All Rookie first team, and Kobe made the All Rookie second team.
Advantage: Magic

9 is more than 7, correct? 5-4 in the Finals is better than 5-2, right? They both have 5 wins, but one has 9 appearances and the other has 7. (don't even try that "That just means he lost more times than Kobe" foolishness; 9 appearances > 7 appearances, if we're being unbiased)
Advantage: Magic

3 > 2, right? They both won 5 Finals, but one was the MVP 3 times, and the other was the MVP 2 times.
Advantage: Magic

Regular season MVPs? 3 > 1
Advantage: Magic

Kobe, for the most part, is known as a scorer. Right? Magic, for the most part, was known as a passer. Right? Kobe lead the league in scoring... what he does best... 2 times. Magic lead the league in assists... what he does best... 4 times. 4 > 2
Advantage: Magic

Also, Kobe is number 5 on the all time scoring list, while Magic is number 4 on the all time assist list.
4 is higher than 5, so again, in terms of what they do best...
Advantage: Magic

Triple doubles? They should both have equal opportunity to get those, right?
Magic has 138; Kobe has 17
Advantage: Magic

Defense? Magic lead the league in steals twice; Kobe was All NBA Defensive First Team 9 times. The steals leader is something you earn; it's based just on the numbers. Being named to the All NBA teams is voted on. We'll just call this one even.

Naismith Prep Player the Year? that has nothing to do with the Lakers, because that was before the Lakers... but Magic's NCAA Championship has nothing to do with the Lakers either. Championships are why we watch sports, right?
Advantage: Magic

Now, about Magic's number being retired and being named top 50 and being in the HOF, obviously Kobe's career isn't over, and he will undoubtedly accomplish 2 of those 3 things, maybe all 3, so we'll say they're even here, too.

 

[CP1708]

Defense? Magic lead the league in steals twice; Kobe was All NBA Defensive First Team 9 times. The steals leader is something you earn; it's based just on the numbers. Being named to the All NBA teams is voted on. We'll just call this one even.

I'm not going to sit and argue Kobe vs Magic cuz it don't matter either way, both are 2 of my favs, but please remove this quote right here. Give me a God damn break. Lead the league in steals twice, vs being a top defender for a decade, call it even. Magic was NEVER once, ever, considered a top notch defender. He was solid in the team defense, and had elite guys around him in Kareem, Cooper, Green, etc, so he gambled for steals a lot. Great. But he was never considered a shut down defender, ever.

Kobe was, clearly, and was for a long time. Stop it.

 

[darthska]

When was he considered a shutdown defender? I'm not saying he wasn't; I'm contending that you said he has been for a long time. He's defense right now is putrid, and has been for awhile. maybe not 'putrid', but a far cry from 'shutdown'.


And when you say "He gambled for steals a lot", who are you talking about again?

 

[CP1708]

Do you only remember Kobe's career this year and last or something? Honest question.

Kobe wasn't a top notch defender from 99 to 2009? That didn't happen? Hell, what was his role in the 08 Olympics? That's towards the end of his career man, you forgot what he was doin in 00, 01, 02, 03 etc?

At least try man, come on.

 

[hometownhero]

Too lazy to read back 5+ pages....I don't get this. How many assists do people want their 2 guard to average? He's a career 5 per game player. That's not good enough? He's top 5 all time, argubly top 3. If you weren't around for Jordan, he's the best you've seen.

See, I know you're mad young. And you don't know any better. But Kobe isn't even a top 3 Laker.He's arguably a top 5 laker. So how can some one who isn't even undeniably top 5 of his own organization be top 5 of the whole league. OF ALL TIME?

To the whole passing thing. "He averages 5 a game isnt that good enough?" This is the problem with new school fans. "Basketball positions were created so a novice can follow the game." Shooting guards sole purpose isn't to shoot. Just as a point guard's purpose isn't to point. The way he played during that 14 assist run was amazing and proves he has the ability to facilitate for most of his career. No real reason a guard with that kind of passing ability should average 4.7 assist career wise. Other than being you know... Selfish.

4.7 a game isnt a big accomplishment when he's played in the triangle almost ALL of his career. Let me correct myself playing in the triangle offense with an All star 5 most of his career and an all star 4 AND 5 the second half of his career makes it fairly easy to gather some dump to the 7 footer assists. He should have raked up more assists and less shots since the ball was in his hands most of the time.

And what do you mean the best you've seen since MJ is Kobe? What are you basing this off of?

What's mad young? Don't answer that. The fact that someone is "mad" young let's me know you're quite young. Who the hell says **** like that. Know that I'm old enough to have seen Jordan play and lucky enough to have been in the building while he was doing so. Rooted against him that game. Being top ______ is a matter of opinion. Ours clearly differ. I'd take a great selfish 2 guard any day. The best ever, MJ, was as selfish as they come. What great 2 guard averaged well over 5 assists over a  career?

I mean he is the best player I've seen play basketball since 1998. Don't know how to put it any clearer than that. (LJ is giving him a run though.) Although I put no stock in what analysts say, some of them have said the same. Hell, Magic said he (Kobe) was the best Laker ever. 

 

[uncalled4boy]

I Dont See Why Anyone Debates Anything Regarding Kobe With Ska. He's A Lakers Fan Who Doesnt Like Their Star Player.

Im Convinced He Is Jason Whitlock

 

[hometownhero]

^jerry west and shaq. jordan's shots are super efficient though, your boi kobe is now the player that has the most miss shot of all time, and his still behind jordan in total points scored. Also, jordan didnt have the privileged to play with a dominate center his whole career, your boi kobe used gasol, dwight, and bynum as if they are just there to rebound for him

Let's forget Pippen is on the 50s greatest team. Shaq is the only one that will make that team.

 

[nako xl]

But Magics team wouldn't be losing the way the Lakers are this seaaon.

Based on...?

Like really, what variables are you using to come to this conclusion?

People are here talking nonsense like Magic ever had a bad Lakers team.

Get past the big 4 in this Lakers lineup and who on their roster would start/get burn ANYWHERE else in the league?  The team isn't that good.  Period.

How does this make Kobe underrated?

 

[hometownhero]

When was he considered a shutdown defender? I'm not saying he wasn't; I'm contending that you said he has been for a long time. He's defense right now is putrid, and has been for awhile. maybe not 'putrid', but a far cry from 'shutdown'.


And when you say "He gambled for steals a lot", who are you talking about again?

That's why he has been given the assignment to guard the point as of late and has done a pretty damn good job at it. Kobe's D was great at one point. No one expected it to be the same all this time later. The man is getting older. Father time has never lost a battle and never will. Age catches up to everyone. 

But Magics team wouldn't be losing the way the Lakers are this seaaon.

Thats what I argue with my friends
. For as skilled, tough, and talented Kobe is...its always been is if hes missing something that the Magic Birds and Jordans had. Hell...I dont think Lebron will ever have a losing season like this. Kobes just missing something under the surface.

Like what? Who works harder? He's an *** when people are doing what it takes to win, but that's something I'd like my star to be.

 

[nako xl]

And Ska, you know damn well Magic wasn't a great man up defender.  He used to get cooked regularly.  A.I. led the league in steals 3 years in a row.  Was he a great defender?

get out of here with that.  and you have the nerve to accuse kobe supporters of bringing up pointless stats to prove their arguments.  that's the 2nd time you've done that on just this page.

 

[PRIME]

But Magics team wouldn't be losing the way the Lakers are this seaaon.

Based on...?

Like really, what variables are you using to come to this conclusion?

People are here talking nonsense like Magic ever had a bad Lakers team.

Get past the big 4 in this Lakers lineup and who on their roster would start/get burn ANYWHERE else in the league?  The team isn't that good.  Period.

How does this make Kobe underrated?

Man, save your breath. You're wasting your time shedding light in this thread full of nonsense.

****** in here defending Magic like he didn't play with the most dominant big man the league has ever seen.


Would ya'll be losing with the sky hook?

Some cats in this thread are complete boneheads/Kobe haters

Look at the mans career. How is he overrated?

Who is more deserving? McGrady?

But let me stop. Because some of you idiots would actually entertain that argument.

Ya'll can't get off Jordans sack so you always put him down because of MJ, and now we've resorted to discrediting him against other Laker HOF'ers?

The man has brought LA 5 titles (whether he had help or was the help, LA wouldn't have had them if he didn't have anything to do with it.), he's had countless other awards, etc. The man has put in his work.

But whats more surprising to me is, nobody in this thread can name one player in the league right now (besides Duncan) who is worthy of being in the same discussion as Kobe in this generation of players as far as HOF credentials go. Lebron, SURE, but who else? Melo?


Is Kobe the GOAT? No. But to sit and discuss whether the man is overrated just shows the salt and hate in some of your veins.

Once you point out Kobe's accomplishments in here, someone comes out nowhere and posts someone who's 1uped him and use that as their excuse for why he's overrated. Really? So, in order to not be overrated you have to have the most rings? Or the most MVP's? Or the most awards?

5 Titles, 1 MVP, 2 Finals MVP's, countless all star appearances, Gold Medals, Defenseive awards, First Team awards = Overrated?


This thread should be locked
This is just an excuse for the Kobe haters to come together and throw salt on the womb.

 

[shoeking2101]

No it's not!

First off, those last 3 Kobe item just shows you were trying to build a list that was longer than Magic's, regardless of what is on the list. Might as well also add that Kobe wore 2 numbers and Magic only wore one. Put that Kobe went from fro to bald. That counts, right? Also had a signature line with 2 major sneaker companies. Moving on...

Ok, first off, Magic played from 80 to 92, 13 years. Kobe is in his 17th year. So right off the bat, Kobe has an extra 4 years. Let's remember that.

Now getting to serious stuff...

As rookies, Magic made the All Rookie first team, and Kobe made the All Rookie second team.
Advantage: Magic

9 is more than 7, correct? 5-4 in the Finals is better than 5-2, right? They both have 5 wins, but one has 9 appearances and the other has 7. (don't even try that "That just means he lost more times than Kobe" foolishness; 9 appearances > 7 appearances, if we're being unbiased)
Advantage: Magic

3 > 2, right? They both won 5 Finals, but one was the MVP 3 times, and the other was the MVP 2 times.
Advantage: Magic

Regular season MVPs? 3 > 1
Advantage: Magic

Kobe, for the most part, is known as a scorer. Right? Magic, for the most part, was known as a passer. Right? Kobe lead the league in scoring... what he does best... 2 times. Magic lead the league in assists... what he does best... 4 times. 4 > 2
Advantage: Magic

Also, Kobe is number 5 on the all time scoring list, while Magic is number 4 on the all time assist list.
4 is higher than 5, so again, in terms of what they do best...
Advantage: Magic

Triple doubles? They should both have equal opportunity to get those, right?
Magic has 138; Kobe has 17
Advantage: Magic

Defense? Magic lead the league in steals twice; Kobe was All NBA Defensive First Team 9 times. The steals leader is something you earn; it's based just on the numbers. Being named to the All NBA teams is voted on. We'll just call this one even.

Naismith Prep Player the Year? that has nothing to do with the Lakers, because that was before the Lakers... but Magic's NCAA Championship has nothing to do with the Lakers either. Championships are why we watch sports, right?
Advantage: Magic

Now, about Magic's number being retired and being named top 50 and being in the HOF, obviously Kobe's career isn't over, and he will undoubtedly accomplish 2 of those 3 things, maybe all 3, so we'll say they're even here, too.

"Also, Kobe is number 5 on the all time scoring list, while Magic is number 4 on the all time assist list.
4 is higher than 5, so again, in terms of what they do best...
Advantage: Magic"

what? You really compared points to assist and then gave magic the edge because 5 is higher than 4?


"Defense? Magic lead the league in steals twice; Kobe was All NBA Defensive First Team 9 times. The steals leader is something you earn; it's based just on the numbers. Being named to the All NBA teams is voted on. We'll just call this one even."

Man what?! Magic is just as good as a defender as kobe?

See I can't deal with y'all man. There is so many struggle points int his rebuttal

Bottom line. If you don't believe Kobe is a better defender, and scorer than Kobe I don't know what to say. Kobe is showing right now how good as a playmaker he can be IN HIS 17TH SEASON. The only reason why Kobe isn't every bit the playmaker magic is is because of his phenomenal ability to put the ball in the hoop himself instead of passing it. An ability that Magic just wasn't as good at. Besides playmaking, there is NOTHING Magic Johnson does better than Kobe.

 

[shoeking2101]

double

 

[nako xl]

"Also, Kobe is number 5 on the all time scoring list, while Magic is number 4 on the all time assist list.
4 is higher than 5, so again, in terms of what they do best...
Advantage: Magic"

what? You really compared points to assist and then gave magic the edge because 5 is higher than 4?

I didn't even catch that at first.

Come on Ska...

 

[darthska]

PRIME's jimmies are in 'Fully Rustled' status.

Alright, alright, alright... I'm about to do something that nobody ever does on NT: revise what I said and agree with something said by folks on the other side. [quote name="CP"]Do you only remember Kobe's career this year and last or something? Honest question.

Kobe wasn't a top notch defender from 99 to 2009? That didn't happen? Hell, what was his role in the 08 Olympics? That's towards the end of his career man, you forgot what he was doin in 00, 01, 02, 03 etc?[/quote]Fair enough.[quote name="hometownhero"]That's why he has been given the assignment to guard the point as of late and has done a pretty damn good job at it. Kobe's D was great at one point. No one expected it to be the same all this time later. The man is getting older. Father time has never lost a battle and never will. Age catches up to everyone. [/quote]True story.[quote name="Nako XL"]And Ska, you know damn well Magic wasn't a great man up defender.  He used to get cooked regularly.  A.I. led the league in steals 3 years in a row.  Was he a great defender?[/quote]Y'all, right; Kobe's definitely the better defender.

Funny how everyone jumped on the paragraph I felt the least confident about, though. CP, I get where you're coming from in not even wanting to engage in the discussion because we're talking about 2 of your favorites; for you, it's like arguing who your favorite child is.

But if you other 2 are trying to paint Kobe better than Magic, what happened to everything else I said?
9 Finals > 7 Finals
3 Finals MVPs > 2 FMVPs
3 MVPs > 1 MVP
all time rank at what they did best: #4 (in 13 years) > #5 (in 17 years)
best at what he did for 4 seasons > best at what he did for 2 seasons
triple doubles: 138 > 17

Jumped all over my defense paragraph, though.

*waits for PRIME to quote me and point out how numbers don't lie and people don't want to see the truth and there's no point in shining light in a thread like this*

*dies waiting*

 

[darthska]

[quote name="hometownhero"]Like what? Who works harder? He's an *** when people are doing what it takes to win, but that's something I'd like my star to be.[/quote] I assume you meant he's an a** when people AREN'T doing what it takes to win, and that's something you'd like your star to be... and we absolutely differ on this point.

First off, I don't want anyone on my team to be an a**.

Second, people like that are an a** to those who aren't doing what THEY think it takes to win. Studying film... working hard... practicing hard... being a good teammate... being on the same page with the coach... there are TONS of ways to do what it takes to win.

Being an a**, having a bad attitude... that's a recipe for losing. Up to the point of the Shaq and Kobe departure, Shaq had been in 5 NBA Finals, won 3 of them, and was the FMVP of those 3 (yes, we know about Kobe. Don't respond to THIS point by mentioning Kobe. I'm painting a picture of whether or not Shaq was a winner.)

And after Shaq left, he was in another Finals, and won it (yes, Kobe won 2; I'm talking about Shaq being a winner or loser, not Kobe).

So before the departure, Shaq had been in 5 finals and won 3 of them... then after the departure, he was in another final that he won. Just because he showed up to camp out of shape didn't give Kobe the right to be an a**, because there are many different ways to define being a winner, and Shaq obviously was one at that time. The PHX/CLE/BOS Shaq? Age, man. He's a big.

Now, it's okay for someone to be an a** to someone else who isn't doing what it takes to win? Kobe's attitude is a detriment to winning. Shaq was part of a championship team a couple years after their departure, while Kobe was part of a rebuilding team. You guys wanna act like it's not it's not his fault at all that he was playing with a depleted roster, but his being an a**... which is something you guys say you like about him... is what brought that roster on.

And of course this isn't quantifiable (that means 'proven with numbers' ), so I fully expect that you guys will jump all over it.

 

[nako xl]

PRIME's jimmies are in 'Fully Rustled' status.

Alright, alright, alright... I'm about to do something that nobody ever does on NT: revise what I said and agree with something said by folks on the other side.

Originally Posted by CP  
Do you only remember Kobe's career this year and last or something? Honest question.

Kobe wasn't a top notch defender from 99 to 2009? That didn't happen? Hell, what was his role in the 08 Olympics? That's towards the end of his career man, you forgot what he was doin in 00, 01, 02, 03 etc?

Fair enough.

Originally Posted by hometownhero  
That's why he has been given the assignment to guard the point as of late and has done a pretty damn good job at it. Kobe's D was great at one point. No one expected it to be the same all this time later. The man is getting older. Father time has never lost a battle and never will. Age catches up to everyone.

True story.

Originally Posted by Nako XL  
And Ska, you know damn well Magic wasn't a great man up defender.  He used to get cooked regularly.  A.I. led the league in steals 3 years in a row.  Was he a great defender?

Y'all, right; Kobe's definitely the better defender.

Funny how everyone jumped on the paragraph I felt the least confident about, though. CP, I get where you're coming from in not even wanting to engage in the discussion because we're talking about 2 of your favorites; for you, it's like arguing who your favorite child is.

But if you other 2 are trying to paint Kobe better than Magic, what happened to everything else I said?
9 Finals > 7 Finals
3 Finals MVPs > 2 FMVPs
3 MVPs > 1 MVP
all time rank at what they did best: #4 (in 13 years) > #5 (in 17 years)
best at what he did for 4 seasons > best at what he did for 2 seasons
triple doubles: 138 > 17

Jumped all over my defense paragraph, though.

*waits for PRIME to quote me and point out how numbers don't lie and people don't want to see the truth and there's no point in shining light in a thread like this*

*dies waiting*

I didn't say Kobe was better than Magic.  I just thought you were making a lot of very bad arguments for why you feel that way while trying to make it seem like people on the other side were the ones making all the ridiculous statements.

I'm not a Lakers fan, but imo Kobe and Magic are interchangeable as 1 and 2, followed by Kareem (i get that he was probably the most dominant center ever, so maybe 1, 2, and 3 are interchangeable) followed by Shaq and any other of those old guys people like to claim are the greatest even though they weren't alive to see them play.

 

[powerballin]

The fact that a Mod is one of the main contributors to this non-sense is wild....

 

[darthska]

^

= "I really want to say something, but have nothing intelligent or valuable to say."

'Overrated' doesn't mean 'sucks'.

Some argue Kobe as GOAT, some top 3 or 5... and MANY disagree w/ that. If he realistically belongs in the top 10-15 and a ton of people have him in the top 1-5, then the argument can definitely be made that he is RATED OVER (swidt?) what he should be rated.

Hence the thread, a pretty large and popular one, I might add.

Doesn't mean he sucks, though.

 

[noblekane]

this has become a player a vs player b vs player c vs player d vs player e thread

kobe being player a and vs everyone else to discredit the guy.

we got dudes in here comparing him to centers and point guards and how he should play like point guards like dude aint a shooting guard

just change the title to kobe unappreciation post already sheesh

 

[noblekane]

Hence the thread, a pretty large and popular one, I might add.

well no duh you know probably half this board hates the lakers and kobe because of what they did to their teams in the past decade...

and if you say most of these dudes in here hate him because of the way he plays your lying to yourself

if the lakers didnt win 5 titles in the last decade this thread wouldnt exist...

this thread is full of pure jealousy and cheeks hurt

 

[darthska]

[quote name="NobleKane"]this has become a player a vs player b vs player c vs player d vs player e thread

kobe being player a and vs everyone else to discredit the guy.

we got dudes in here comparing him to centers and point guards and how he should play like point guards like dude aint a shooting guard

just change the title to kobe unappreciation post already sheesh[/quote] = "I really want to say something, but have nothing intelligent or valuable to say."

if you pay attention, most of the players brought in the discussion are brought in by Kobe supporters. "Well what about Mike? he shot a lot. What about Magic? he played with other talent, and lost in the finals, too. Shaq was out of shape. Kobe bailed him out."

Go look. other names are mostly brought in by Kobe supporters.