IS KOBE BRYANT...OVERRATED?

[5am6oody72]

if you don't like someone's response, it's not a rule that you respond to them and tell them how much you don't like their response. Just... keep scroling. That is an option. It's a great option, actually.

it has already been mentioned in this thread before that Kobe is the all time leader in misses. Yes, that can be attributed to his deep playoff runs over 17 years, but the response to that justification is... Why is he not also the all time leader in shot attempts, then? or shots made? if it stands to reason that he has missed more shots than everyone else because of the playoff runs, then it should also stand to reason that he has made and taken more shots than everyone else because of the playoff runs... but all 3 of those things is not true. The only 1 of them that's true, is that he has missed more shots than everyone else.

By your basic level of reasoning, since Kobe has the most misses he should also have the most attempts? So you expect Kobe, a 2 guard, to shoot equal or better % as Kareem (C) and Karl Malone (PF) who are 1 and 2 on the regular season attempts list...because that's the only way what you said SHOULD be true (Kobe having the most misses and the most attempts) could be true.

 

[sea manup]

By your basic level of reasoning, since Kobe has the most misses he should also have the most attempts? So you expect Kobe, a 2 guard, to shoot equal or better % as Kareem (C) and Karl Malone (PF) who are 1 and 2 on the regular season attempts list...because that's the only way what you said SHOULD be true (Kobe having the most misses and the most attempts) could be true.

all while having his assist numbers close to the number of shot attempts he takes per game

 

[darthska]

[quote name="Nako XL"]Jordan isn't the all time regular season leader in shots attempted or made either.[/quote]But he's also not the all time leader in misses, which is what my reply was about. If you're going to say that the reason he is the all time leader in misses because of 17 years of deep playoff runs, then you also should assume tht he is the all time leader in shot attempts and shots made because of 17 years of deep playoff runs... but that's not the case, and it also has nothing to do with Jordan. clearly you were replying to my reply, but I didn't say anything about Jordan... or anyone else... in my reply, so I'm confused why you would do that. "Well, because people always..." I get that, but you weren't replying to 'the people's reply'; you were replying to my reply.

- Because of 17 years of deep playoff runs, is Kobe the all time leader in misses? Yes.
- Because of 17 years of deep playoff runs, is Kobe the all time leader in shot attemps? No.
- Because of 17 years of deep playoff runs, is Kobe the all time leader in shots made? No.

 

[nako xl]

By your basic level of reasoning, since Kobe has the most misses he should also have the most attempts? So you expect Kobe, a 2 guard, to shoot equal or better % as Kareem (C) and Karl Malone (PF) who are 1 and 2 on the regular season attempts list...because that's the only way what you said SHOULD be true (Kobe having the most misses and the most attempts) could be true.

all while having his assist numbers close to the number of shot attempts he takes per game

I still laugh at that shot attempts to assists ratio that Ska was touting.  Like laugh HEARTILY.  THAT'S how a real guard should be playing.  Right.

In the 98 title run (his 13th season in the league), Jordan averaged 3.5 assists per game while attempting 23.1 fg's per.  But it's all OK because he was shooting 47%.  THE GOAT!!!!

Kobe in this current season (his 17th) is averaging 5.8 assists per while attempting 20.4 field goals a game and shooting 47%.

Ugh.  Overrated. (i'm being sarcastic.)

 

[SneakerProSr.]

By your basic level of reasoning, since Kobe has the most misses he should also have the most attempts? So you expect Kobe, a 2 guard, to shoot equal or better % as Kareem (C) and Karl Malone (PF) who are 1 and 2 on the regular season attempts list...because that's the only way what you said SHOULD be true (Kobe having the most misses and the most attempts) could be true.

all while having his assist numbers close to the number of shot attempts he takes per game

What?

 

[nako xl]

BUT JORDAN IS IRRELEVANT TO THIS THREAD!!!!!!!!

(I just wanted to say it before any of you could.)

 

[nako xl]

By your basic level of reasoning, since Kobe has the most misses he should also have the most attempts? So you expect Kobe, a 2 guard, to shoot equal or better % as Kareem (C) and Karl Malone (PF) who are 1 and 2 on the regular season attempts list...because that's the only way what you said SHOULD be true (Kobe having the most misses and the most attempts) could be true.

all while having his assist numbers close to the number of shot attempts he takes per game

What?

Ska said that a guard should take about as many shot attempts as he has assists in the game, or try to get the two as close to each other as possible.  And that (for example) an 11/20 shooting night when you only have 3-4 assists is a bad game.  seriously.

 

[cjwooooo]

Did he take into account that Westbrook takes more shots than KD that's why his is so low

 

[darthska]

Nako, you made 3 claims that you're saying I said. In reality, I said none of those things.

but go on trying to speak for me. It's fascinating, and you're doing so well.

friendly reminder, making fun of those who have an opinion you disagree with only shows your immaturity, and doesn't lend very much credibility to the other folks on your side of the fence. I've repeated this numerous times to folks on both sides of the fence.

again, it feels like I'm teaching you guys how to debate respectfully sometimes so that your contentions can be taking seriously.

 

[CP1708]

Ok, reset here tho guys, Kobe has missed a ton of shots in his career, what exactly is the point of that in terms of where he slots 6-10, 11, 12 all time?

Is missed shots the SOLE reason Kobe is overrated? Is it a combo package along with playing with Shaq/Pau?

What is the exact argument being made right now in terms of missed shots?

 

[SneakerProSr.]

Nako, you made 3 claims that you're saying I said. In reality, I said none of those things.

but go on trying to speak for me. It's fascinating, and you're doing so well.

friendly reminder, making fun of those who have an opinion you disagree with only shows your immaturity, and doesn't lend very much credibility to the other folks on your side of the fence. I've repeated this numerous times to folks on both sides of the fence.

again, it feels like I'm teaching you guys how to debate respectfully sometimes so that your contentions can be taking seriously.

Most true Kobe fans have a strong emotional investment in him. I truly believe its impossible for them to discuss him totally logically.

There is a reason the side that has typed in ALL CAPS the most in this thread are Kobe fans.

 

[SneakerProSr.]

Ok, reset here tho guys, Kobe has missed a ton of shots in his career, what exactly is the point of that in terms of where he slots 6-10, 11, 12 all time?

Is missed shots the SOLE reason Kobe is overrated? Is it a combo package along with playing with Shaq/Pau?

What is the exact argument being made right now in terms of missed shots?

There is none anymore.

 

[nako xl]

Nako, you made 3 claims that you're saying I said. In reality, I said none of those things.

but go on trying to speak for me. It's fascinating, and you're doing so well.

friendly reminder, making fun of those who have an opinion you disagree with only shows your immaturity, and doesn't lend very much credibility to the other folks on your side of the fence. I've repeated this numerous times to folks on both sides of the fence.

again, it feels like I'm teaching you guys how to debate respectfully sometimes so that your contentions can be taking seriously.

Ska.

You didn't say that a players shot attempts should be close to the number of assists they have in a game?

If I'm misrepresenting you, correct me.  But that's how I remember it.

I didn't make fun of anyone.  Well except itsabaythang.  and Hpv.  And your point on shot attempts to assists ratio.  Which i still recall you saying (maybe wrongly? Correct me.)

 

Most true Kobe fans have a strong emotional investment in him. I truly believe its impossible for them to discuss him totally logically.

There is a reason the side that has typed in ALL CAPS the most in this thread are Kobe fans.

based on your posts here, you seem to be strongly emotionally invested yourself.

 

[denni5themenace]

Most true Kobe fans have a strong emotional investment in him. I truly believe its impossible for them to discuss him totally logically.

There is a reason the side that has typed in ALL CAPS the most in this thread are Kobe fans.

how are kobe fans the only ones emotionally invested?

you and quik are crying about not having access to the laker thread and people "trolling" this thread, but yet kobe fans are the only ones emotionally invested in this argument

 

[CP1708]

Nako, you made 3 claims that you're saying I said. In reality, I said none of those things.

but go on trying to speak for me. It's fascinating, and you're doing so well.

friendly reminder, making fun of those who have an opinion you disagree with only shows your immaturity, and doesn't lend very much credibility to the other folks on your side of the fence. I've repeated this numerous times to folks on both sides of the fence.

again, it feels like I'm teaching you guys how to debate respectfully sometimes so that your contentions can be taking seriously.

Most true Kobe fans have a strong emotional investment in him. I truly believe its impossible for them to discuss him totally logically.

There is a reason the side that has typed in ALL CAPS the most in this thread are Kobe fans.

Pro, your favorite player, yours, Dirk Nowitski, claimed Kobe the best player of this generation. IE, more than Duncan, more than Shaq, more than Dirk.

How do you feel about that? While your busy claiming that Laker fans are emotional about the subject, while all you hating *** dudes are clean and clear of emotion, please, how does Dirk saying that make you feel? Enlighten me.

 

[SneakerProSr.]

Anybody here look up win shares?

 

[CP1708]

Damn man, that's twice Dennis has beat me the last 3 days with the exact same post point. How the hell do you beat that guy?

 

[nako xl]

No, Ska seriously.  I raised that shot attempts and assists argument with friends recently to talk about Westbrook and Steph Curry.  If I'm misrepresenting what you said I want to know.

CP, am I remembering things wrong or was this not one of Ska's points a few weeks back?  sea manup seemed to remember it.

 

[SneakerProSr.]

Nako, you made 3 claims that you're saying I said. In reality, I said none of those things.

but go on trying to speak for me. It's fascinating, and you're doing so well.

friendly reminder, making fun of those who have an opinion you disagree with only shows your immaturity, and doesn't lend very much credibility to the other folks on your side of the fence. I've repeated this numerous times to folks on both sides of the fence.

again, it feels like I'm teaching you guys how to debate respectfully sometimes so that your contentions can be taking seriously.

Most true Kobe fans have a strong emotional investment in him. I truly believe its impossible for them to discuss him totally logically.

There is a reason the side that has typed in ALL CAPS the most in this thread are Kobe fans.

Pro, your favorite player, yours, Dirk Nowitski, claimed Kobe the best player of this generation. IE, more than Duncan, more than Shaq, more than Dirk.

How do you feel about that? While your busy claiming that Laker fans are emotional about the subject, while all you hating *** dudes are clean and clear of emotion, please, how does Dirk saying that make you feel? Enlighten me.

Honestly, man it doesn't phase me.

Dirk's my guy. I've watched him win me a championship while playing with no other top 20 players. I watched take my team to the playoffs for all of my adult life.

And I'm about to watch him take the Lakers playoff spot while having just as old of a team, having the same amount of injuries on his team and also having only played half a season with his team.

 

[nako xl]

Originally Posted by Nako XL  
Jordan isn't the all time regular season leader in shots attempted or made either.

But he's also not the all time leader in misses, which is what my reply was about. If you're going to say that the reason he is the all time leader in misses because of 17 years of deep playoff runs, then you also should assume tht he is the all time leader in shot attempts and shots made because of 17 years of deep playoff runs... but that's not the case, and it also has nothing to do with Jordan. clearly you were replying to my reply, but I didn't say anything about Jordan... or anyone else... in my reply, so I'm confused why you would do that. "Well, because people always..." I get that, but you weren't replying to 'the people's reply'; you were replying to my reply.

- Because of 17 years of deep playoff runs, is Kobe the all time leader in misses? Yes.
- Because of 17 years of deep playoff runs, is Kobe the all time leader in shot attemps? No.
- Because of 17 years of deep playoff runs, is Kobe the all time leader in shots made? No.

Missed this reply before.  Jordan wasn't a direct reply to you.  I just addressed you because you replied to me.

I brought up Jordan because in this thread peopel constantly mention jordan to say "well Michael is the best sg and his stat line is _______"

So when you mention that Kobe is the all time overall leader in missed FG's, how do you not mention that Jordan is top 5 in missed field goals all time.  And if you mention that stat to somehow discredit Kobe as a scorer and to say he shows shoddy decision making, well then why not mention that in the regular season Jordan is the all time leader in field goals missed?

I brought up Jordan to the greater thread.  People keep naming him (and other player's) stats and accolades when it's useful to discredit Kobe.  But they say "he's irrelevant to this thread" when he has a negative stat that mirrors Bryant's.  If the all time misses stat is a blight on Kobe's game, then it's one on Jordan's too, no?

So if that stat can be used to show Kobe is overrated, then it can also be used in a Jordan (the goat) is overrated argument as well.

 

[CP1708]

I see. So let me ask Pro, who would you rate higher, ALL TIME, Kobe or Dirk? Be honest.


Nako, you remember correctly, he was making the point about assists should be close to shot attempts. He made the claim, but he did back it up with some reasoned points, he wasn't just throwing stuff at a wall or anything. I personally had never heard that line of thinking, but there's lots I don't know.

 

[SneakerProSr.]

I see. So let me ask Pro, who would you rate higher, ALL TIME, Kobe or Dirk? Be honest.


Nako, you remember correctly, he was making the point about assists should be close to shot attempts. He made the claim, but he did back it up with some reasoned points, he wasn't just throwing stuff at a wall or anything. I personally had never heard that line of thinking, but there's lots I don't know.

Kobe is a greater player but its not nearly far off as the general public and most Kobe fans will accept.

People will think I'm nuts but Kobe's defense is the difference. Offensively its a coin flip.

 

[CP1708]

I see. So let me ask Pro, who would you rate higher, ALL TIME, Kobe or Dirk? Be honest.


Nako, you remember correctly, he was making the point about assists should be close to shot attempts. He made the claim, but he did back it up with some reasoned points, he wasn't just throwing stuff at a wall or anything. I personally had never heard that line of thinking, but there's lots I don't know.

Kobe is a greater player but its not nearly far off as the general public and most Kobe fans will accept.

Bill Simmons book of basketball has Kobe in the 8-9 range, and Dirk in the 35-38 range overall, all time. He may actually have Dirk near 30 by now. So about 20 spots or so difference. You agree with that?

 

[worldbeefreeg]

Dirk is top 25 at this point undeniably. Basically, the guy should have two rings where his best supporting player was ___?

Difference to me is those first 8 years of Kobe's career he was just clearly ahead of Dirk, after that its a wash to me pretty much.

 

[noblekane]

God this thread is ******g stupid

because you are a part of it. emotionally invested in someone you dont even know. go get some air...