cedric ceballos 1995 lakers
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this is niketalk a good chunk of members on here glorify chuckers and dunkers that play on 25 win teams but can throw down a few nice dunks
Is Kobe is still exciting to watch?
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by letitshine24,
- Start date
this is niketalk a good chunk of members on here glorify chuckers and dunkers that play on 25 win teams but can throw down a few nice dunks
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short answer? yes
long answer? yes he is exciting to watch
long answer? yes he is exciting to watch
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short answer? yes
long answer? yes he is exciting to watch
long answer? yes he is exciting to watch
everysingletime
formerly amel223
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We aren't asking who is the best 1 on 1, we are asking who the most fun to watch.
I think some of you don't understand what this topic is about.
No they understand. They just disagree with you.
everysingletime
formerly amel223
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We aren't asking who is the best 1 on 1, we are asking who the most fun to watch.
I think some of you don't understand what this topic is about.
No they understand. They just disagree with you.
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No, he had like 7, and clutch shooting is among the most overrated aspects of basketball (and also sports in general) . There is no statistical evidence to definitively show that certain players perform better in the clutch, even if the psychological factor of pressure exists.
To answer Darth's question: Kobe is one of the greatest players of all-time, and I have him with Jerry West as the 2nd best shooting guard ever. But as you can read from some if the posts in this thread, he is also overrated (which doesn't have to happen) because people confuse his similar style of play to MJ, and also erroneously use the rings he won with the Lakers (which is silly to use in player comparisons) to boost his ranking. He is arguably a top 10 player, but he ain't the GOAT or in the top 5 - and with basketball taking a cue from baseball and becoming smarter with its statistics that measure historical production, it would be a bit absurd to put him up there.
You seem like a reasonable Lakers fan though, and I agree with you that Kobe gets no love sometimes from some fans. I also think he gets alot of irrational love from others especially when it comes to historical ranking.
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No, he had like 7, and clutch shooting is among the most overrated aspects of basketball (and also sports in general) . There is no statistical evidence to definitively show that certain players perform better in the clutch, even if the psychological factor of pressure exists.
To answer Darth's question: Kobe is one of the greatest players of all-time, and I have him with Jerry West as the 2nd best shooting guard ever. But as you can read from some if the posts in this thread, he is also overrated (which doesn't have to happen) because people confuse his similar style of play to MJ, and also erroneously use the rings he won with the Lakers (which is silly to use in player comparisons) to boost his ranking. He is arguably a top 10 player, but he ain't the GOAT or in the top 5 - and with basketball taking a cue from baseball and becoming smarter with its statistics that measure historical production, it would be a bit absurd to put him up there.
You seem like a reasonable Lakers fan though, and I agree with you that Kobe gets no love sometimes from some fans. I also think he gets alot of irrational love from others especially when it comes to historical ranking.
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I still think he is. I have a friend who's a Kobe hater (plus a MJ and Bron fan), and he went to see a Lakers game this year and came back to me like a little kid talking about how Kobe's good, how he warms up, etc. I was completely shocked when I heard this from him. I already knew the obvious though.
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I still think he is. I have a friend who's a Kobe hater (plus a MJ and Bron fan), and he went to see a Lakers game this year and came back to me like a little kid talking about how Kobe's good, how he warms up, etc. I was completely shocked when I heard this from him. I already knew the obvious though.
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How am I stooping as low as them by CORRECTING them?? That's part of the problem nowadays, folks just say whatever they want to then nobody corrects that person/people that are mis-speaking. For most of these Kobe lovers out here they will tell you that 2+2=3........that's when I explain to them how and why 2+2=4. That's when they get upset at you for helping them out when they need so much help to begin with.
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How am I stooping as low as them by CORRECTING them?? That's part of the problem nowadays, folks just say whatever they want to then nobody corrects that person/people that are mis-speaking. For most of these Kobe lovers out here they will tell you that 2+2=3........that's when I explain to them how and why 2+2=4. That's when they get upset at you for helping them out when they need so much help to begin with.
This will probably ruin my day, but ahhh what the hell.
You people that say he is overrated and all that do realize that his career is not finished, correct? While not exciting anymore, he still plays in the NBA, for the LA Lakers.
Now, given his decline, and the decline we saw in a player that he is "similar" too, we can just look ahead a bit, and round some numbers off.
Say he goes this year, and 2 more years. He finishes this year just under 28K points. 1800-2000 next year, 1500 the next. Somewhere in that mid 31,500 career points mark, like 4th all time or so.
Say, this postseason, let's goooooo 15 games or so. Say he's out in the WCF. Go 20-25 points a game for those 15. That's about 350-400 if he has a couple 30's left in him. Now, if he makes another run to the Finals, and we go 20-22 games, add another 100-150 points. Know where that gets you? 5,500 or so, maybe 5,600, 3rd all time playoff scoring.
Next year, he gets 10-14 playoff games and the Lakers as we know them now, are done by that time. Still gonna go for 20-25 a night, mix in a 30 here or there possibly, you get another 200-250 points. IF they find a way to get a few extra games, make an extra series or whatever, he is well within range to hit the 6,000 point mark good for, you guessed it, the most playoff points in NBA history.
Even if he comes up short, if they still make the playoffs in his third and "final" season, he can score some points and what not in there as well, possibly making up the difference to end his career the all time leading scorer.
Now for those of you that want to cry about scoring only, one more thing, he will also finish with over 1,000+ playoff rebounds and assists. The list of players to do that along with at least 3,000 plus points? Magic, Mike, Bird, Scottie. If you go to the 5,000, 1,000 and 1,000 club. One member, Mike. And soon to be Kobe.
Factor in a decade of All NBA teams, 7 trips to the finals (so far) the 5 rings, some other crap, all stars and what not, his final numbers/achievements will be good for EASY top 5 all time. And this is IF we kill him off after 3 years. Imagine if he went harder for a 4th year, or even a 5th. Kareem didn't get all those stats/accolades of his stopping at age 34 now did he?
What I'm sayin is, he's playing with house money right now. He's done his big boy stuff. 30 points a game seasons, an MVP, some chips, etc etc. Now he's old and he can finish his career with whatever numbers he can muster. If they add anything in terms of another title, or at worst a trip to the finals, you're adding to a resume that not many people can EVER match in this game.
I haven't even SPOKEN yet on what if he did go out and win a 6th? What if that happened? What if he went nuts and got BIG numbers in this postseason, and added all kinds of stuff to his resume, then what? Bottom of the top 10 still?
At this point, right now, this second, I still have Magic in the top 5 all time, and GLOAT. (Greatest Laker of al......) But like I said, one guy is still playing, the other is not. If Kobe wraps this career up with a nice little bow made out of Championship Laker banner, pardon my french, but you all can kiss our @#$ when we say dude is legit top 3-4 all time, now safely ahead of one Magic Johnson and with an eye towards working on KAJ, Russell, and MJ's resumes.
If he fails to win that #6, but has some more shining moments here and there? Then I tuck him somewhere in that 5-7 range, and call it good until we see what Bron and Durant and next superstar A comes thru with in the next 15 years.
But overrated?
*forgive me father for I have sinned, I spoke Kobe's name on Niketalk.........*
You people that say he is overrated and all that do realize that his career is not finished, correct? While not exciting anymore, he still plays in the NBA, for the LA Lakers.
Now, given his decline, and the decline we saw in a player that he is "similar" too, we can just look ahead a bit, and round some numbers off.
Say he goes this year, and 2 more years. He finishes this year just under 28K points. 1800-2000 next year, 1500 the next. Somewhere in that mid 31,500 career points mark, like 4th all time or so.
Say, this postseason, let's goooooo 15 games or so. Say he's out in the WCF. Go 20-25 points a game for those 15. That's about 350-400 if he has a couple 30's left in him. Now, if he makes another run to the Finals, and we go 20-22 games, add another 100-150 points. Know where that gets you? 5,500 or so, maybe 5,600, 3rd all time playoff scoring.
Next year, he gets 10-14 playoff games and the Lakers as we know them now, are done by that time. Still gonna go for 20-25 a night, mix in a 30 here or there possibly, you get another 200-250 points. IF they find a way to get a few extra games, make an extra series or whatever, he is well within range to hit the 6,000 point mark good for, you guessed it, the most playoff points in NBA history.
Even if he comes up short, if they still make the playoffs in his third and "final" season, he can score some points and what not in there as well, possibly making up the difference to end his career the all time leading scorer.
Now for those of you that want to cry about scoring only, one more thing, he will also finish with over 1,000+ playoff rebounds and assists. The list of players to do that along with at least 3,000 plus points? Magic, Mike, Bird, Scottie. If you go to the 5,000, 1,000 and 1,000 club. One member, Mike. And soon to be Kobe.
Factor in a decade of All NBA teams, 7 trips to the finals (so far) the 5 rings, some other crap, all stars and what not, his final numbers/achievements will be good for EASY top 5 all time. And this is IF we kill him off after 3 years. Imagine if he went harder for a 4th year, or even a 5th. Kareem didn't get all those stats/accolades of his stopping at age 34 now did he?
What I'm sayin is, he's playing with house money right now. He's done his big boy stuff. 30 points a game seasons, an MVP, some chips, etc etc. Now he's old and he can finish his career with whatever numbers he can muster. If they add anything in terms of another title, or at worst a trip to the finals, you're adding to a resume that not many people can EVER match in this game.
I haven't even SPOKEN yet on what if he did go out and win a 6th? What if that happened? What if he went nuts and got BIG numbers in this postseason, and added all kinds of stuff to his resume, then what? Bottom of the top 10 still?
At this point, right now, this second, I still have Magic in the top 5 all time, and GLOAT. (Greatest Laker of al......) But like I said, one guy is still playing, the other is not. If Kobe wraps this career up with a nice little bow made out of Championship Laker banner, pardon my french, but you all can kiss our @#$ when we say dude is legit top 3-4 all time, now safely ahead of one Magic Johnson and with an eye towards working on KAJ, Russell, and MJ's resumes.
If he fails to win that #6, but has some more shining moments here and there? Then I tuck him somewhere in that 5-7 range, and call it good until we see what Bron and Durant and next superstar A comes thru with in the next 15 years.
But overrated?
*forgive me father for I have sinned, I spoke Kobe's name on Niketalk.........*
This will probably ruin my day, but ahhh what the hell.
You people that say he is overrated and all that do realize that his career is not finished, correct? While not exciting anymore, he still plays in the NBA, for the LA Lakers.
Now, given his decline, and the decline we saw in a player that he is "similar" too, we can just look ahead a bit, and round some numbers off.
Say he goes this year, and 2 more years. He finishes this year just under 28K points. 1800-2000 next year, 1500 the next. Somewhere in that mid 31,500 career points mark, like 4th all time or so.
Say, this postseason, let's goooooo 15 games or so. Say he's out in the WCF. Go 20-25 points a game for those 15. That's about 350-400 if he has a couple 30's left in him. Now, if he makes another run to the Finals, and we go 20-22 games, add another 100-150 points. Know where that gets you? 5,500 or so, maybe 5,600, 3rd all time playoff scoring.
Next year, he gets 10-14 playoff games and the Lakers as we know them now, are done by that time. Still gonna go for 20-25 a night, mix in a 30 here or there possibly, you get another 200-250 points. IF they find a way to get a few extra games, make an extra series or whatever, he is well within range to hit the 6,000 point mark good for, you guessed it, the most playoff points in NBA history.
Even if he comes up short, if they still make the playoffs in his third and "final" season, he can score some points and what not in there as well, possibly making up the difference to end his career the all time leading scorer.
Now for those of you that want to cry about scoring only, one more thing, he will also finish with over 1,000+ playoff rebounds and assists. The list of players to do that along with at least 3,000 plus points? Magic, Mike, Bird, Scottie. If you go to the 5,000, 1,000 and 1,000 club. One member, Mike. And soon to be Kobe.
Factor in a decade of All NBA teams, 7 trips to the finals (so far) the 5 rings, some other crap, all stars and what not, his final numbers/achievements will be good for EASY top 5 all time. And this is IF we kill him off after 3 years. Imagine if he went harder for a 4th year, or even a 5th. Kareem didn't get all those stats/accolades of his stopping at age 34 now did he?
What I'm sayin is, he's playing with house money right now. He's done his big boy stuff. 30 points a game seasons, an MVP, some chips, etc etc. Now he's old and he can finish his career with whatever numbers he can muster. If they add anything in terms of another title, or at worst a trip to the finals, you're adding to a resume that not many people can EVER match in this game.
I haven't even SPOKEN yet on what if he did go out and win a 6th? What if that happened? What if he went nuts and got BIG numbers in this postseason, and added all kinds of stuff to his resume, then what? Bottom of the top 10 still?
At this point, right now, this second, I still have Magic in the top 5 all time, and GLOAT. (Greatest Laker of al......) But like I said, one guy is still playing, the other is not. If Kobe wraps this career up with a nice little bow made out of Championship Laker banner, pardon my french, but you all can kiss our @#$ when we say dude is legit top 3-4 all time, now safely ahead of one Magic Johnson and with an eye towards working on KAJ, Russell, and MJ's resumes.
If he fails to win that #6, but has some more shining moments here and there? Then I tuck him somewhere in that 5-7 range, and call it good until we see what Bron and Durant and next superstar A comes thru with in the next 15 years.
But overrated?
*forgive me father for I have sinned, I spoke Kobe's name on Niketalk.........*
You people that say he is overrated and all that do realize that his career is not finished, correct? While not exciting anymore, he still plays in the NBA, for the LA Lakers.
Now, given his decline, and the decline we saw in a player that he is "similar" too, we can just look ahead a bit, and round some numbers off.
Say he goes this year, and 2 more years. He finishes this year just under 28K points. 1800-2000 next year, 1500 the next. Somewhere in that mid 31,500 career points mark, like 4th all time or so.
Say, this postseason, let's goooooo 15 games or so. Say he's out in the WCF. Go 20-25 points a game for those 15. That's about 350-400 if he has a couple 30's left in him. Now, if he makes another run to the Finals, and we go 20-22 games, add another 100-150 points. Know where that gets you? 5,500 or so, maybe 5,600, 3rd all time playoff scoring.
Next year, he gets 10-14 playoff games and the Lakers as we know them now, are done by that time. Still gonna go for 20-25 a night, mix in a 30 here or there possibly, you get another 200-250 points. IF they find a way to get a few extra games, make an extra series or whatever, he is well within range to hit the 6,000 point mark good for, you guessed it, the most playoff points in NBA history.
Even if he comes up short, if they still make the playoffs in his third and "final" season, he can score some points and what not in there as well, possibly making up the difference to end his career the all time leading scorer.
Now for those of you that want to cry about scoring only, one more thing, he will also finish with over 1,000+ playoff rebounds and assists. The list of players to do that along with at least 3,000 plus points? Magic, Mike, Bird, Scottie. If you go to the 5,000, 1,000 and 1,000 club. One member, Mike. And soon to be Kobe.
Factor in a decade of All NBA teams, 7 trips to the finals (so far) the 5 rings, some other crap, all stars and what not, his final numbers/achievements will be good for EASY top 5 all time. And this is IF we kill him off after 3 years. Imagine if he went harder for a 4th year, or even a 5th. Kareem didn't get all those stats/accolades of his stopping at age 34 now did he?
What I'm sayin is, he's playing with house money right now. He's done his big boy stuff. 30 points a game seasons, an MVP, some chips, etc etc. Now he's old and he can finish his career with whatever numbers he can muster. If they add anything in terms of another title, or at worst a trip to the finals, you're adding to a resume that not many people can EVER match in this game.
I haven't even SPOKEN yet on what if he did go out and win a 6th? What if that happened? What if he went nuts and got BIG numbers in this postseason, and added all kinds of stuff to his resume, then what? Bottom of the top 10 still?
At this point, right now, this second, I still have Magic in the top 5 all time, and GLOAT. (Greatest Laker of al......) But like I said, one guy is still playing, the other is not. If Kobe wraps this career up with a nice little bow made out of Championship Laker banner, pardon my french, but you all can kiss our @#$ when we say dude is legit top 3-4 all time, now safely ahead of one Magic Johnson and with an eye towards working on KAJ, Russell, and MJ's resumes.
If he fails to win that #6, but has some more shining moments here and there? Then I tuck him somewhere in that 5-7 range, and call it good until we see what Bron and Durant and next superstar A comes thru with in the next 15 years.
But overrated?
*forgive me father for I have sinned, I spoke Kobe's name on Niketalk.........*
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I don't see how he is overrated. Probably the 2nd best SG in NBA History. People just don't like the dude.
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I don't see how he is overrated. Probably the 2nd best SG in NBA History. People just don't like the dude.
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not really but appreciative to see a living legend
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not really but appreciative to see a living legend
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Like this guy right here, perfect example of somebody that I mentioned earlier.........." Kobe is great, but when you got dudes on here talking about Kobe is the GOAT or the second GOAT that's when you know dudes either don't know basketball, too young to know the history and players of the game, diehard Kobe lovers to the end, or a combination of all 3."
Too bad your opinion is just as valid as a Kobe stan. Kobe is one of the greatest of all time so just get over it Bro... You're a full time Kobe hater so just please get off the man's jock and I've only seen you in Kobe threads.... I just don't understand how you gonna rate someone's career before they're even finished playing
That's like me saying somehow people cant rate Vince Carter's place in basketball history cause he's still playing. Just like Kobe, Vince Carter's best days are behind him too. Also, when you say Kobe is one of the greatest of all-time , where exactly do you have him on your list........Top 5.......Top 10.....Top 15.......Top 20??
Edit--
At the end of the day for the majority of you Kobe lovers ou there that want to know how or why isn't Kobe the GOAT, simply put his IMPACT on the game of basketball isn't up there with Jordan's, it's not even up there with Magic's and Bird's as well..........never has been........NEVER WILL BE. Now's there's nothing wrong with that of course, cause thats's a big mountain to climb, but at the end of the day it is what it is.
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Like this guy right here, perfect example of somebody that I mentioned earlier.........." Kobe is great, but when you got dudes on here talking about Kobe is the GOAT or the second GOAT that's when you know dudes either don't know basketball, too young to know the history and players of the game, diehard Kobe lovers to the end, or a combination of all 3."
Too bad your opinion is just as valid as a Kobe stan. Kobe is one of the greatest of all time so just get over it Bro... You're a full time Kobe hater so just please get off the man's jock and I've only seen you in Kobe threads.... I just don't understand how you gonna rate someone's career before they're even finished playing
That's like me saying somehow people cant rate Vince Carter's place in basketball history cause he's still playing. Just like Kobe, Vince Carter's best days are behind him too. Also, when you say Kobe is one of the greatest of all-time , where exactly do you have him on your list........Top 5.......Top 10.....Top 15.......Top 20??
Edit--
At the end of the day for the majority of you Kobe lovers ou there that want to know how or why isn't Kobe the GOAT, simply put his IMPACT on the game of basketball isn't up there with Jordan's, it's not even up there with Magic's and Bird's as well..........never has been........NEVER WILL BE. Now's there's nothing wrong with that of course, cause thats's a big mountain to climb, but at the end of the day it is what it is.
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Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican
Nowhere near a casual fan. Don't disrespect me like that Reggie.
Why does ANY of that matter? I am not comparing teams. I am not comparing accomplishments. Why does someone have to be playing on a meaningful team for that opinion to be valid. Based on THAT logic, Blake Griffin shouldn't be considered more exciting than Kobe either since all he does is play in meaningless games. Same as John Wall. Faulty logic. Like I said man, yall still on me for saying Will bynum when the list had over 15 players.
That's the thing with the Kobe stans on here. They don't get that. They think ANYTHING that isn't PRO-Kobe or anything that can be perceived as being "negative" is all Kobe hate and that you're dissing their hero.
As far as the topic, of course he's not as exciting to watch as in his past because his game has changed where he's not a high flying scoring machine. However, i think whenever you're still one of the best players in the NBA, it's always exciting to watch because you never know when they can pull off something crazy. If you're a fan of Kobe, he'll ALWAYS be exciting to watch.
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Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican
Nowhere near a casual fan. Don't disrespect me like that Reggie.
Why does ANY of that matter? I am not comparing teams. I am not comparing accomplishments. Why does someone have to be playing on a meaningful team for that opinion to be valid. Based on THAT logic, Blake Griffin shouldn't be considered more exciting than Kobe either since all he does is play in meaningless games. Same as John Wall. Faulty logic. Like I said man, yall still on me for saying Will bynum when the list had over 15 players.
That's the thing with the Kobe stans on here. They don't get that. They think ANYTHING that isn't PRO-Kobe or anything that can be perceived as being "negative" is all Kobe hate and that you're dissing their hero.
As far as the topic, of course he's not as exciting to watch as in his past because his game has changed where he's not a high flying scoring machine. However, i think whenever you're still one of the best players in the NBA, it's always exciting to watch because you never know when they can pull off something crazy. If you're a fan of Kobe, he'll ALWAYS be exciting to watch.
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Too bad your opinion is just as valid as a Kobe stan. Kobe is one of the greatest of all time so just get over it Bro... You're a full time Kobe hater so just please get off the man's jock and I've only seen you in Kobe threads.... I just don't understand how you gonna rate someone's career before they're even finished playing
That's like me saying somehow people cant rate Vince Carter's place in basketball history cause he's still playing. Just like Kobe, Vince Carter's best days are behind him too. Also, when you say Kobe is one of the greatest of all-time , where exactly do you have him on your list........Top 5.......Top 10.....Top 15.......Top 20??
Edit--
At the end of the day for the majority of you Kobe lovers ou there that want to know how or why isn't Kobe the GOAT, simply put his IMPACT on the game of basketball isn't up there with Jordan's, it's not even up there with Magic's and Bird's as well..........never has been........NEVER WILL BE. Now's there's nothing wrong with that of course, cause thats's a big mountain to climb, but at the end of the day it is what it is.
For the record, I'm a clipper fan.
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Too bad your opinion is just as valid as a Kobe stan. Kobe is one of the greatest of all time so just get over it Bro... You're a full time Kobe hater so just please get off the man's jock and I've only seen you in Kobe threads.... I just don't understand how you gonna rate someone's career before they're even finished playing
That's like me saying somehow people cant rate Vince Carter's place in basketball history cause he's still playing. Just like Kobe, Vince Carter's best days are behind him too. Also, when you say Kobe is one of the greatest of all-time , where exactly do you have him on your list........Top 5.......Top 10.....Top 15.......Top 20??
Edit--
At the end of the day for the majority of you Kobe lovers ou there that want to know how or why isn't Kobe the GOAT, simply put his IMPACT on the game of basketball isn't up there with Jordan's, it's not even up there with Magic's and Bird's as well..........never has been........NEVER WILL BE. Now's there's nothing wrong with that of course, cause thats's a big mountain to climb, but at the end of the day it is what it is.
For the record, I'm a clipper fan.
