Israel declares War - Destruction of Gaza / Growing conflict in Middle East

[DripNick]

S/O Mexico City

 

[DripNick]

Hopefully they can all return to their homeland soon

 

[me love nutella]

NOTE: The following is largely separate from the primary topic of this thread. This brief discussion formed as a natural extension of the thread's topics.

Yes, oil wasn't the MAIN motivation, but pipeline politics was a major factor, along with regime change. In fact, this does all tie back to Israel. Why? Israel wanted to revive this pipeline form Kirkuk (Iraqi Kurdistan) all the way to Haifa which was stopped in 1948 in protest by Iraq for the creation of the state of Israel. So they also had a motivation with oil, but also they needed to get rid of their archnemesis, Saddam.

Israel was also one of the parties that fed the US & UK intelligence on Saddam and WMDs, and Chalabi was supported by Israel/Netanyahu/Mossad. Netanyahu was the time Finance Minister at the time.

In November 2003, a respected Tel Aviv thinktank concluded that Israeli intelligence had joined the US and Britain in an "exaggerated assessment" of Iraqi weapons.

In 2002, the former head of the Mossad intelligence agency, Efraim Halevy, told a closed meeting of Nato that there were "clear indications" that Iraq had renewed its efforts to build WMD after the UN weapons inspections were halted in 1998. He also said Iraq had preserved elements of its ability to manufacture chemical and biological weapons.

Source: Israel knew Iraq had no WMD, says MP

But, they knew and withheld that it was lies.

Also, Netanyahu and Sharon, as well pro-Israel lobby and US advisers were big backers of Chalabi, and propped him up to be the leader, but we know how that went.

The Washington partisans who want to install Chalabi in Arab Iraq are also those associated with the staunchest backers of Israel, particularly those aligned with the hard-right faction of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and former Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Chalabi's cheerleaders include the Washington Institute for Near East Policy (WINEP) and the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs (JINSA). "Chalabi is the one that we know the best," says Shoshana Bryen, director of special projects for JINSA, where Chalabi has been a frequent guest at board meetings, symposia and other events since 1997. "He could be Iraq's national leader," says Patrick Clawson, deputy director of WINEP, whose board of advisers includes pro-Israeli luminaries such as Perle, Wolfowitz and Martin Peretz of The New Republic.

Source: https://www.mit.edu/people/fuller/peace/chalabi.html

 

[DLF]

S/O Mexico City

They did the same in Türkiye. Crazy how media has blacked that info out

 

[gry60]

Hopefully they can all return to their homeland soon

That's... A great post...

Are you calling Poland hell, or are you saying Israelis should all die?

Does that include Arab and Ethiopian and Bedouin Israelis too?

 

[DripNick]

Are you calling Poland hell, or are you saying Israelis

It quite clearly says "zionists".

Flaki does look like hellish food tho so I don't know

 

[lovehateself]

S/O Mexico City

a toda madre o un desmadre

 

[gry60]

It quite clearly says "zionists".

Are you saying the term no longer apply to all Israeli citizens? If so, which ones are welcome to stay?

 

[DripNick]

a toda madre o un desmadre

Perrito

 

[DLF]

If you ever feel useless, just remember Egypt exists.

 

[DLF]

Omg is this true??

 

[DLF]

 

[Frankie Blue]

 

[me love nutella]

Very interesting take in this tweet...


This was also my prediction.

But I can't see Israel actually going this far with the international pressure and from within the call for hostage swap.

Also, the fact it is in their books to go to full out war with Lebanon.

I hate this world.

 

[DLF]

Very interesting take in this tweet...


This was also my prediction.

But I can't see Israel actually going this far with the international pressure and from within the call for hostage swap.

Also, the fact it is in their books to go to full out war with Lebanon.

I hate this world.

Look forward to the war against Hezbollah. They can’t even beat sandal wearing malnourished Hamas fighters. What the hell they gonna do against trained career fighters.

Also: I think international pressure is mounting.

One thing he doesn’t mention is blocking aid completely and starving the people. That is the attrition war I expected him to say. Israel can win by just reducing aid to 0% for a month

 

[fluid hips]

Yes, oil wasn't the MAIN motivation, but pipeline politics was a major factor, along with regime change. In fact, this does all tie back to Israel. Why? Israel wanted to revive this pipeline form Kirkuk (Iraqi Kurdistan) all the way to Haifa which was stopped in 1948 in protest by Iraq for the creation of the state of Israel. So they also had a motivation with oil, but also they needed to get rid of their archnemesis, Saddam.

Israel was also one of the parties that fed the US & UK intelligence on Saddam and WMDs, and Chalabi was supported by Israel/Netanyahu/Mossad. Netanyahu was the time Finance Minister at the time.


Source: Israel knew Iraq had no WMD, says MP

But, they knew and withheld that it was lies.

Also, Netanyahu and Sharon, as well pro-Israel lobby and US advisers were big backers of Chalabi, and propped him up to be the leader, but we know how that went.

Source: https://www.mit.edu/people/fuller/peace/chalabi.html

The UN sent a team to Iraq and found no WMDs months before the US invasion

People knew the pretext for invading was a farce

 

[rexanglorum]

S/O Mexico City

Mexico might soon be the prime example of the fact that Zionist=/=Jewish. It seems likely that Mexico will elect its first ever Jewish President as it starts to severe ties is the state of Israel.

 

[gry60]

But I can't see Israel actually going this far with the international pressure and from within the call for hostage swap.

I'd argue that international pressure and popular sentiment against Israeli policy in Gaza is exactly why I could see that scenario develop.

The internal politics of Israel are driven by security: if they won't have security through negotiations, they're going to get it by force. Because Bibi "can't find anyone to talk to" (I'm being sarcastic), there's only one option for them, and Oct 7th gave Israel an opening to implement the "security by force" option.

Right now, the internal politics of Israeli allies (France, the US) are signaling that they won't tolerate the current Israeli policy on Palestine; in addition, allied, non-permanent UNSC members have also signaled their intent to recognize the state of Palestine. In addition to all that, the prospect of a Trump victory, which would give Israel plenty of diplomatic cover with a very friendly UNSC chaperone, is not guaranteed.

The establishment of a Palestinian state with Hamas controlling one of the main territories would be considered a security failure by Israel and a victory by all the groups that oppose Israel militarily. It would also be an optics nightmare for the US. In the face of increased scrutiny on Israeli general conduct toward Palestinians and the increased public support of Palestinian statehood, I could see how Bibi has decided to put all the chances on the Israeli side by reducing to the maximum possible their two most immediate threats (Hamas, Hezbollah) within this year and the next.

 

[me love nutella]

Look forward to the war against Hezbollah. They can’t even beat sandal wearing malnourished Hamas fighters. What the hell they gonna do against trained career fighters.

Also: I think international pressure is mounting.

One thing he doesn’t mention is blocking aid completely and starving the people. That is the attrition war I expected him to say. Israel can win by just reducing aid to 0% for a month

So ,Hamas was in this for the long game, and I had read somewhere they have enough stocks of weapons for a year. But it was unverified. My opinion is Hamas wants to bring down Netanyahu's government from within and stretch them out and wear Israel's military thin, especially once they get to full-out war with Lebanon. Basically, what Israel had tried to do with them with the blockade, but it didn't lessen their power and did not succeed in toppling Hamas from within. So, Hamas took the opportunity while maniacal flagrant Netanyahu was on thin ice. Israel was already closing in and had plans for West Bank and Gaza, so post October 7 did put a dent for Netanyahu and his regime.

As for blocking aid and starving the people to death which is currently ongoing, as well as allies/US supplying them with weapons, how much can Biden take within election year and how this may affect him in the polls?

 

[me love nutella]

I'd argue that international pressure and popular sentiment against Israeli policy in Gaza is exactly why I could see that scenario develop.

The internal politics of Israel are driven by security: if they won't have security through negotiations, they're going to get it by force. Because Bibi "can't find anyone to talk to" (I'm being sarcastic), there's only one option for them, and Oct 7th gave Israel an opening to implement the "security by force" option.

Right now, the internal politics of Israeli allies (France, the US) are signaling that they won't tolerate the current Israeli policy on Palestine; in addition, allied, non-permanent UNSC members have also signaled their intent to recognize the state of Palestine. In addition to all that, the prospect of a Trump victory, which would give Israel plenty of diplomatic cover with a very friendly UNSC chaperone, is not guaranteed.

The establishment of a Palestinian state with Hamas controlling one of the main territories would be considered a security failure by Israel and a victory by all the groups that oppose Israel militarily. It would also be an optics nightmare for the US. In the face of increased scrutiny on Israeli general conduct toward Palestinians and the increased public support of Palestinian statehood, I could see how Bibi has decided to put all the chances on the Israeli side by reducing to the maximum possible their two most immediate threats (Hamas, Hezbollah) within this year and the next.

Valid points. I am just trying to think here that basically Netanyahu is just going out with a bang, but there's now pressure against him and optics all around looking very bad for him and his allies. They keep losing support because his government is seen as a liability during election year. For him to go with as much force and destruction for 'national security' although military they cannot defeat Hamas. So it is really just about him to stay in power and avoid the downfall, or they really believe in their strategy? Or both? Also, did they not learn from 2016 in going to war with Hezbollah? That is considered a military defeat and embarrassment for them. Hamas modeled October 7 based on the Gilad exchange, but also the 2016 war.

There's lots of pressure also from the captives' families, but I think by now it in Netanyahu's interest they all get killed through neglect, starvation and the airstrikes and just to keep going. With the takeover of the Philadelphi corridor, I do wonder if Egypt will comply, or this will create tensions as basically it is a defacto full reoccupation.

 

[DLF]

So ,Hamas was in this for the long game, and I had read somewhere they have enough stocks of weapons for a year. But it was unverified. My opinion is Hamas wants to bring down Netanyahu's government from within and stretch them out and wear Israel's military thin, especially once they get to full-out war with Lebanon. Basically, what Israel had tried to do with them with the blockade, but it didn't lessen their power and did not succeed in toppling Hamas from within. So, Hamas took the opportunity while maniacal flagrant Netanyahu was on thin ice. Israel was already closing in and had plans for West Bank and Gaza, so post October 7 did put a dent for Netanyahu and his regime.

As for blocking aid and starving the people to death which is currently ongoing, as well as allies/US supplying them with weapons, how much can Biden take within election year and how this may affect him in the polls?

We’re going off the rails on the crazy train….

 

[gry60]

As for blocking aid and starving the people to death which is currently ongoing, as well as allies/US supplying them with weapons, how much can Biden take within election year and how this may affect him in the polls?

47th Edition - Spring 2024

A national poll released today by the Institute of Politics (IOP) at Harvard Kennedy School indicates that among 18-to-29-year-olds nationwide, more than half of young Americans say they will definitely be voting in the Presidential election this Fall. But findings show that among those likely...

iop.harvard.edu

Key Takeaways​

Among young Americans under 30, President Biden leads former President Trump by eight percentage points; among likely voters, Biden's lead expands to 19 points.

Approximately half (53%) of young Americans indicate they will "definitely be voting" in the 2024 general election for president. Young Americans' interest in voting in 2024 is now on par with Harvard Youth Poll data from 2020, which indicated that 54% would likely vote.
If the presidential election were held today, President Biden would outperform former President Trump among both registered (50% Biden, 37% Trump) and likely young voters under 30 (56% Biden, 37% Trump). When there is no voter screen (i.e., all young adults 18-29), the race narrows to single digits, 45% for President Biden, 37% for former President Trump, with 16 percent undecided.

Bear in mind that this is the demographic that has expressed the most support for an immediate ceasefire.

In an open-ended question about which national issue concerned them most, we found that about a quarter (27%) of young Americans volunteered something related to the economy. Immigration (9%), foreign policy (8%), and environmental issues followed behind.

Apparently not that much, if we go by polling among those most likely to oppose his Gaza/Israel policy.

 

[me love nutella]

Yup, for sure this war is for the longer haul. Seriously, at this rate, Gaza's population will be decimated, but that's the point.

That is what I was telling my BFF who's been pushing me to do MORE like call MPs here in Canada, and show up at protests and encampments, at this point, what does it do when using the master's tools to try to dismantle the master's house? It can show support and put pressure, but it won't stop it. The genocidal war machine is all-encompassing and too powerful.

 

[DripNick]

Apple doesn't fall far from the tree, it seems

 

[DripNick]

Dbl