Israel declares War - Destruction of Gaza / Growing conflict in Middle East

[me love nutella]

Since a few pages back we had the convo on genocide...

 

[gry60]

Can I also add that I never met a Muslim in my life that supports ISIS, Boko Haram and any of these mercenaries. They are usually deemed as crazy and a bunch of goons.

Sure, you will come across some who have allegiance to political islamist groups that are seen as more resistance fighters, like Hamas, or Hezbollah.

But ISIS? Never in my life have I met anyone Muslim that thinks they're some legitimate cause. Never. All I do read though from past few years is how some teenagers/young adults would be brainwashed or lured by Western intelligence agents to join those groups,. But never out loud have I met anyone that does support them, thank goodness.

I do not think I ever met a Muslim supportive of Taliban, and thank goodness I never have. I also do know some Afghans, but the only way I can see is some may feel Taliban serve to fight off Western governments/militaries, but never heard of anyone think they are legitimate to support. I should ask some though.

The point of my reply was that the ideological ground that allows these groups to establish themselves and grow is pretty fertile throughout the Sahel, mostly for historical and cultural reasons. In those non-white countries, where these islamist groups are kidnapping school-aged children, massacring entire towns and villages, and bombing hotels and marketplaces, the likelihood that people (who are NOT white or from the west) develop negative perceptions of Islam - to various degrees - is significant, especially if they have no knowledge of other accepting versions of the religion.

Islamist insurgency in the Sahel - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I didn't say that these terror groups represented the entirety of Islam; however, acting like there aren't Islamist groups operating from Indonesia to Niger, and pretending that their visibility is just the result of media manipulation is only helping to cement that negative perception of the religion.

FWIW, the same thing is happening to Christianity in the US. The good Christians, the good Muslims, and the good Jews bury their heads in the sand and pretend that nobody is using their holy books to impose their vision of the world on others by force...

 

[DLF]

Can I also add that I never met a Muslim in my life that supports ISIS, Boko Haram and any of these mercenaries. They are usually deemed as crazy and a bunch of goons.

Sure, you will come across some who have allegiance to political islamist groups that are seen as more resistance fighters, like Hamas, or Hezbollah.

But ISIS? Never in my life have I met anyone Muslim that thinks they're some legitimate cause. Never. All I do read though from past few years is how some teenagers/young adults would be brainwashed or lured by Western intelligence agents to join those groups,. But never out loud have I met anyone that does support them, thank goodness.

I do not think I ever met a Muslim supportive of Taliban, and thank goodness I never have. I also do know some Afghans, but the only way I can see is some may feel Taliban serve to fight off Western governments/militaries, but never heard of anyone think they are legitimate to support. I should ask some though.

Yea same here

Isis was def created by Israel. They seem to only attack other Muslim countries. When was the last time ISIS attacked the US or Israel?

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Since a few pages back we had the convo on genocide...

"The seige alone is genocide" is obviously not true as you need the intent.

And his evidence for the intent is quotes from Israeli officers.

Then there's stuff about afflicting conditions to destroy a group

The obvious counter evidence is the conditions they are inflicting are not even close to enough to destroy the group. And members of that group live in molested within the boarders of the country.

So on one hand we have some quotes from some officers on the other hand we have had a half century of population growth in Gaza.


The all powerful Israel genocidal state seems remarkably ineffectiven at realizing it's intent.

 

[gry60]

Isis was def created by Israel. They seem to only attack other Muslim countries. When was the last time ISIS attacked the US or Israel?

If I wanted to create a theocratic state, would it not be easier to go where most people already share my religion and convince them to base their government on the theology?

Am I gonna read next that Saudi Arabia's funding of wahhabi madrassas is actually a Western covert operation?

Are you guys serious?

 

[smedroc]

The all powerful Israel genocidal state

Finally coming to your senses

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Yea same here

Isis was def created by Israel. They seem to only attack other Muslim countries. When was the last time ISIS attacked the US or Israel?

Israel created ISIS?

Which Nazi influencer did you get this take from?

 

[me love nutella]

If I wanted to create a theocratic state, would it not be easier to go where most people already share my religion and convince them to base their government on the theology?

Am I gonna read next that Saudi Arabia's funding of wahhabi madrassas is actually a Western covert operation?

Are you guys serious?

Aw ok I get what you're saying about the Islamist groups from the Western perspective.
It's interesting from the Western perspective because I will tell you that many Middle Easterners and Muslims see these islamists as direct/indirect propped mercenaries and death squads from Western covert agencies.

So that's why to us, they just take the label of Islamic ideology for show and go even beyond, more as a front. We see them just as crazy goons and even intelligence operatives or agents for Gulf countries and Western allies to fight proxy wars. It makes sense when you see who funds them.

ISIS was created the same way the Mujahideen, Taliban and Al Qaeda were funded from some Arab gulf countries but also the West to fight the Soviets. Like Iran-Contra, the ISIS death squads were set up by the US to crush a national insurgency.

So from some research I have done.. goes like this...Washington hawks wanted to topple the governments/regime change of Libya and Syria, and crush the popular resistance in Iraq. Once again, they planned to do this using death squads. So they got around Congress by having Qatar and the Saudis finance it. To set up death squads in Iraq, they sent John Negroponte as Ambassador to Baghdad in 2004. The same guy they sent to Honduras as Ambassador from 1981 to 1985. Then in 2011, they sent some of those killers from Iraq to Libya to overthrow Qaddafi, with NATO air cover. From Libya, they were sent on to Syria to start the killing there, in a dirty war directed by Negroponte's right-hand man, US Ambassador Ford, to counter Syria's Assad and Russia.

That's what Arabs and Muslims know and if you speak to many of us, that's why we see ISIS and other death squad terror groups as an extension of Western mercenaries, but also for the Gulf countries.

Qatar had a big hand in spearheading and funding the Civil War in Syria.

The West, Israel and Gulf countries/governments are the cancers of the Middle East. Are Iran and Russia as well? Sure, they're all dirty players.. but it's the West and Gulf countries that are more dominant and have more powerful impacts in destabilizing the region.

 

[me love nutella]

Israel created ISIS?

Which Nazi influencer did you get this take from?

He could be not far off if Israel had a hand in indirectly funding or arming ISIS.

I will research on it. Israel is the US's imperial outpost in the Middle East and has a hand in regime change and dirty wars such as funding and arming death squads all over the world for decades.

We all know Israel has the dirtiest, grimiest, deadliest, shadiest intelligence services, Mossad.

 

[me love nutella]

Am I gonna read next that Saudi Arabia's funding of wahhabi madrassas is actually a Western covert operation?

Are you guys serious?

Also, this part...

The wahabbi madrassas where? In Afghanistan and Pakistan?

The US and Saudi both play a role in having funded death squads and rebel fighters in the region. This has been confirmed by former and current American officials.

It is oil, pipeline, geopolitical and military politics. If you read the history and understand it from start to today, it's all the context needed to get it.

 

[gry60]

from the Western perspective

The thing is, the perspective I gave you was not formed in the West. I'm not white, and I wasn't raised in the West.

Your original question was, why do westerners see all Muslims as ISIS affiliates, and I said that it's not only Westerners who share that perspective. I also explained why other people may develop that particular perception of Islam, based on how the religion has presented itself throughout western/central African societies.

many Middle Easterners and Muslims see these islamists as direct/indirect propped mercenaries and death squads from Western covert agencies.

Once again, the US and French militaries are/were out there in the Sahel, fighting these very islamist groups. Can you explain to me why, if westerners are funding them, the State department wouldn't just cut off funding to these groups instead of running the risk of getting kicked out by the governments of Niger, Mali, and Burkina Faso for "unsatisfactory performance"?

The wahabbi madrassas where? In Afghanistan and Pakistan?

International propagation of Salafism - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

From 1982 to 2005 in an effort to spread Wahhabi Islam, over $75 billion was spent, via international organizations[d] and religious attaches at dozens of Saudi embassies,[3][12] to establish/build 200 Islamic colleges, 210 Islamic centers, 1,500 mosques, and 2,000 schools for Muslim children in Muslim and Non-Muslim majority countries.[13][14] Mosque funding was combined with persuasion to propagate the dawah Salafiyya;[3][12] schools were "fundamentalist" in outlook and formed a network "from Sudan to northern Pakistan".[15][16][17] Supporting proselytizing or preaching of Islam[e] has been called "a religious requirement" for Saudi rulers that cannot [or could not] be abandoned "without losing their domestic legitimacy" as protectors and propagators of Islam.[11]

 

[IATT]

 

[degenerate423]

Didn’t think I’d see the day that conservative footstool, Piers Morgan, is publicly going against the Zionists/Netanyahu.

 

[IATT]

Didn’t think I’d see the day that conservative footstool, Piers Morgan, is publicly going against the Zionists/Netanyahu.

check the date

 

[me love nutella]

The thing is, the perspective I gave you was not formed in the West. I'm not white, and I wasn't raised in the West.

Your original question was, why do westerners see all Muslims as ISIS affiliates, and I said that it's not only Westerners who share that perspective. I also explained why other people may develop that particular perception of Islam, based on how the religion has presented itself throughout western/central African societies.

Again, for instance, I do not see Zionism as representative of Judaism, and I do not see the KKK as representative of Christianity.

Once again, the US and French militaries are/were out there in the Sahel, fighting these very islamist groups. Can you explain to me why, if westerners are funding them, the State department wouldn't just cut off funding to these groups instead of running the risk of getting kicked out by the governments of Niger, Mali, and Burkina Faso for "unsatisfactory performance"?

The Islamist mercenaries are seen as vital to colonial powers to use as pretext for foreign meddling and interference.

The US//Saudi/Qatar-funded ISIS did their job in Iraq, then extended to Libya under US and NATO forces for their 2011 campaign against Qaddafi’s regime. This is what led to the collapse of the Libyan state and the creation of a political and security vacuum that facilitated jihadist encroachment in the Sahel.

It is known as the jihadi blowback. In the case of France, they were accused of incompetently dealing with the security threats posed by Islamist militants. But, they were also accused of abetting these militants in order to keep those countries unstable, allowing an increased military presence and thus enabling continued resource exploitation. Sometimes, this does not succeed if the blowback gets too strong for the colonial powers.

Now, you have Russia's Wagner that is taking advantage and going in providing their services for security, which lets Russia in for resource exploitation.

International propagation of Salafism - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Yes, I do know this and said that Saudi are part of the financing of Islamists. But we also do know from the West had a role in the past and as more recent in past decades in funding and supporting ISIS

"A revealing light on how we got here has now been shone by a recently declassified secret US intelligence report, written in August 2012, which uncannily predicts – and effectively welcomes – the prospect of a “Salafist principality” in eastern Syria and an al-Qaida-controlled Islamic state in Syria and Iraq. In stark contrast to western claims at the time, the Defense Intelligence Agency document identifies al-Qaida in Iraq (which became Isis) and fellow Salafists as the “major forces driving the insurgency in Syria” – and states that “western countries, the Gulf states and Turkey” were supporting the opposition’s efforts to take control of eastern Syria.

Raising the “possibility of establishing a declared or undeclared Salafist principality”, the Pentagon report goes on, “this is exactly what the supporting powers to the opposition want, in order to isolate the Syrian regime, which is considered the strategic depth of the Shia expansion (Iraq and Iran)”.

Now the truth emerges: how the US fuelled the rise of Isis in Syria and Iraq | Seumas Milne

The sectarian terror group won’t be defeated by the western states that incubated it in the first place

www.theguardian.com

 

[IATT]

 

[DLF]

Someone lit themselves on fire in Atlanta at Israeli consulate to protest the war and Israeli officials response was: sad to see peoples hate for us be shown this way

Always the victim

 

[Public Enemy]

"Keren Yarhi-Milo, dean of the School of International and Public Affairs at Columbia (SIPA), and Amaney Jamal, dean of the Princeton School of Public and International Affairs, shared their ideas, strategies, and recommendations for discussing complex, charged topics like the War in Gaza within academic settings. The discussion, moderated by journalist Claire Shipman (CC'86, SIPA'94), co-chair of the Board of Trustees of Columbia University, served as an example of the importance of conversation rooted in scholarship and the value of dialogue, as well as a reflection of how universities can contribute during fraught times such as these.

“It is not okay to cast civility aside because the moment is too heated,” Columbia University President Minouche Shafik said in her opening remarks. “We must cultivate a university culture that pushes back on the forces that seek to divide us. A culture that encourages empathy, not personal attacks on individuals or identities. Learning to speak, and listen with respect, that is a cherished Columbia value.”

 

[onthenephs]

Man that MartyrMade Fear and Loathing in the New Jerusalem podcast is incredible. 6 parts, 20+ hrs.

 

[DripNick]

 

[DLF]

This is insane (no violence shown):

 

[iTookanL]

This is insane (no violence shown):

I'm not sure if it's related but it was reported that around sixty IDF troops were killed/wounded in an ambush within their camp.

Expect a video confirming it in the next day or two.

 

[DLF]

I'm not sure if it's related but it was reported that around sixty IDF troops were killed/wounded in an ambush within their camp.

Expect a video confirming it in the next day or two.

Apparently this was it. They put bombs all around them and then fired it at 4:30 am (other posts say this)

Kind of crazy how close they got. Rip to everyone involved.

Humans are so dumb

 

[ahat]

 

[DLF]

Terrible PR division