Jordan IV Black/Red Reimagined - February 17, 2024

[trappedintime]

I will say…people who have say do lurk here from time to time so it’s not like some of these issues go 100% completely unseen

That being said they are probably using a lot of feedback to stretch out the line and continue dangling carrots for further profit

Think about it this way, the longer they focus on trash retro+ colorways that don’t sell the faster they’ll accelerate to dead accurate OGs.

I still don’t really get the point. If they started next year with 5 OG colorways done to OG spec and dropped 5 more every year they’d still be able to sell out in 2031 to 2035 when they did it again. It makes no sense they’re operating on a 100 year plan. You have to wait 50 years before they say “ok we’ll finally do it right”?

Part of me thinks the further out from the 80’s we get the sooner the consumer who really cares will go away and stop having a voice in trends and quality standards. Or at least that’s what this release pattern would indicate Nike hopes.

 

[ill4eva]

Jordan Brand has been in the retro business for 24 years now. There was fear within the company that no one would care about Jordans once MJ retired, but they’re fine. Certain models will always sell out for casual wear. The brand sells more shoes now than it did when Jordan was playing.

What I do find amusing is this idea that they’re holding back on providing OG specs. The factories that made the original shoes are likely gone. Nike/JB has shifted countries over the years, moving production to different countries due to lower labour costs. Some of the materials will never be the same, sometimes due to the OG supplier going out of business, or simply because production of some materials are harmful to the environment or are too expensive. We haven’t seen a true 1:1 retro in 24 years. We aren’t going to see them in the next 24 years either. They’ll come close, but I’m sure people in here will find something to whine about. Lol

 

[Girl Thats Jules]

Jordan Brand has been in the retro business for 24 years now. There was fear within the company that no one would care about Jordans once MJ retired, but they’re fine. Certain models will always sell out for casual wear. The brand sells more shoes now than it did when Jordan was playing.

What I do find amusing is this idea that they’re holding back on providing OG specs. The factories that made the original shoes are likely gone. Nike/JB has shifted countries over the years, moving production to different countries due to lower labour costs. Some of the materials will never be the same, sometimes due to the OG supplier going out of business, or simply because production of some materials are harmful to the environment or are too expensive. We haven’t seen a true 1:1 retro in 24 years. We aren’t going to see them in the next 24 years either. They’ll come close, but I’m sure people in here will find something to whine about. Lol

You're probably right but the reasons you listed don't account for everything.

They can raise wings and ankle collars higher on a Jordan 4 with any manufacturer or factory. Most of the shoes they mess up are deliberate, not because of something beyond their control.

 

[trappedintime]

There’s countless examples where they could have compared to any number of pairs there. They could tear down OG pairs and get the measurements and angles to millimeters.

Sure, foam midsole changes might impact fit or comfort but I think if they actually tried for 1:1 retros they could make most people here very happy even if it’s not *exact*. You don’t need an OG factory to get precise, machine calculated dimensions to build the correct last.

Sometimes it looks like they get a sample and sign off, there’s no revisions or effort to make it closer. So I don’t really accept that for why we get what we get.

Not to mention other brands doing it better with 80’s and 90’s retros…

 

[ill4eva]

You're probably right but the reasons you listed don't account for everything.

They can raise wings and ankle collars higher on a Jordan 4 with any manufacturer or factory. Most of the shoes they mess up are deliberate, not because of something beyond their control.

Has the lower ankle collars and wing placement hurt Jordan 4 sales yet? For every person willing to walk away from buying a pair because of these discrepancies from the OG model, there are about 100 people who don’t care and will still buy the shoe.

 

[trappedintime]

Has the lower ankle collars and wing placement hurt Jordan 4 sales yet? For every person willing to walk away from buying a pair because of these discrepancies from the OG model, there are about 100 people who don’t care and will still buy the shoe.

Why wouldn’t you make the shape universally awesome and then only sell that moving forward? It’s not as if they aren’t spending time and money changing the lasts. We see the shape all over the place.

What you’re saying amounts to “well they’re lazy”. But that doesn’t explain much of it.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I'm sorry but I think it is complete BS that a company worth 150 billion dollars, and all the resources they have can't do a better job than they are doing.

Especially since they have done better at times and HAD A WHOLE MARKETING CAMPAIGN ABOUT THEM REDEDICATING THEMSELVES TO GET AS CLOSE TO THE OGS AS POSSIBLE.

Nike SB 4s have better shape than the regular 4s they are putting out now.

Must we forget they had a whole "reimagined" **** they were peddling

People made excuses for them when they were putting low-cut patent leather on 11 mids, people made excuses for them when they were putting high-cut cement print on the 3s. Hell, there are multiple different molds of the 1s that they release now. One of them intended to be closer to the original mold. So many of the models have better molds than they used to, because for a while the molds were so abysmal. Just go look at the **** they put in the Countdown packs.

The banana shapes used to be worse

They have shown they can address complaints when they want. So I dunno why people still entertain the "not the same factories" excuse.

From time to time JB says they listen to customer feedback, and from time to time they claim they are bringing shoes back true to the original form.

So why should the customer not get mad at them, when they themselves to living up to their claims?

They don't need to replicate the exact material and mold. The early 2000s retros didn't do that. But they can work with their manufacturers to make sure the shape and proportions are better. Find a nubuck and better approximate durabuck (something they were doing as little as 7 years ago)

Again, Nike/JB can do better. Other brands do better.

I think dudes don't like to hear/read about people complaining about a product they intend to spend a hundred dollars on.

I see no reasonable excuse for Nike and JB actions. Except people working there not caring, and customer demand telling them they don't need to care anyway.

 

[g-time]

Why wouldn’t you make the shape universally awesome and then only sell that moving forward? It’s not as if they aren’t spending time and money changing the lasts. We see the shape all over the place.

What you’re saying amounts to “well they’re lazy”. But that doesn’t explain much of it.

Because they are being bought/sold out with how they currently are being presented by the consumer.

 

[ill4eva]

Why wouldn’t you make the shape universally awesome and then only sell that moving forward? It’s not as if they aren’t spending time and money changing the lasts. We see the shape all over the place.

What you’re saying amounts to “well they’re lazy”. But that doesn’t explain much of it.

lol. Whatever the reasons are, I don’t really care. My point is, they haven’t made a 1:1 retro in 24 years. What makes you think they’re going to get it right someday? Because there are 5-6 posters on Niketalk who consistently whine a lot?

 

[trappedintime]

Because they are being bought/sold out with how they currently are being presented by the consumer.

again, with this logic none of the changes that we’ve got in the past five years would exist. It’s a choice. It’s anti-consumer. It’s well thought out. It’s not “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it” or they wouldn’t keep fixing it

 

[trappedintime]

lol. Whatever the reasons are, I don’t really care. My point is, they haven’t made a 1:1 retro in 24 years. What makes you think they’re going to get it right someday? Because there are 5-6 posters on Niketalk who consistently whine a lot?

For the same reason they aren’t making them 1:1 and continue to change them. Each one is its own marketable, differentiated product. Eventually the marketing tactic will be bringing it back to true specs. They already claim it here and there, they just fail to live up to it most of the time. All hype, minimal changes. I mean they’ve already improved the 2 which last year they had the designer trotted out to talk about how much care he took to get it right. It wasn’t right.

But ultimately an “exact” retro is another marketable, differentiated product. They don’t even have to keep giving it to you. Look at the SB4. They have no qualms trotting a better mold out on one of the hottest sneakers of the year and then not using it on anything else.

 

[doublemesh96]

The wc3 was a near perfect retro outside of quality issues with certain pairs. They 1000% can and should at some point make 1:1 retros especially og colors.

 

[g-time]

again, with this logic none of the changes that we’ve got in the past five years would exist. It’s a choice. It’s anti-consumer. It’s well thought out. It’s not “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it” or they wouldn’t keep fixing it

But they haven’t fixed much and when they do fix something, something else gets lost/“forgotten”. It is essentially an “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it” mentality.

A. They’re they’re going to want the consumer to keep buying. So they’ll fix something to appease a small niche crowd but it’s not going to be perfect. It’ll get a niche group to want to buy.

B. We are 20 years out from Jordan last playing for the Wizards. 25 years years out from his last year with the Bulls. You could argue the demo that’s buying the majority of these pairs never saw, or barely have recollection of seeing Jordan play outside of highlights and YouTube. They are not going to fully care/appreciate the specs and details the way the late 30s-50 crowd does that got to witness him play and the original releases.

Do I want 1:1 retros? Absolutely. There’s no denying that. Do I thing it’s realistic? Possibly. But we’re talking about a company that’s been creating retros and doing what we’re claiming for over 20 years now.

And like ill4eva mentioned earlier, we’re just not going to get 1:1 in some models. The company that held the patent and created and supplied Durabuck to Nike, The United States Shoe Corporation, cancelled the patent and stopped producing it in ‘98. So that pretty much stopped with the OG 14.

 

[1978S]

The 2020 Air Max III (90) retro is a great reminder that anything is possible.

They specifically brought in folks to recreate the Air Max 90 as close as possible to the originals.....and they nailed it.

 

[engineer]

The 2020 Air Max III (90) retro is a great reminder that anything is possible.

They specifically brought in folks to recreate the Air Max 90 as close as possible to the originals.....and they nailed it.

Great example.
We also have the following Jordan models, which are close enough even though they aren’t 1:1.

85 1s
All 2s
Most 3s, notably the reimagined
SB4
2019 infrared 6
All 11s

I don’t think people are asking for a 1:1 4. Just good retros that are more in line with the models I listed above when it comes to attention to detail.

I keep seeing the same lazy take over and over that they have no incentive to change the 4 since they always sell out. With that logic, why did they bother changing the 11? Why did SB bother with tweaking the mold (and nailing it) if they were gonna sell out regardless?

 

[g-time]

11s patent leather was a constant complaint, Nike air was on those specific models. I think they fixed it because it was essentially part of their remastered gimmick, which started bringing NA back to those models and was something they could “fix.” It also allowed them to increase the price on the retro line across the board.

It’s also not really a lazy take though if it’s consistently happening. I think if JB wasn’t releasing so many retros/retro+ models each month/year, you’d see an improvement across the line.

 

[ill4eva]

The cut on the 11s was fixed, but the thickness of the patent leather was thinner than the OGs. So again, not 1:1. We’re not going to see a 1:1 on the JB line. It’s a pipe dream. Lol

 

[engineer]

The cut on the 11s was fixed, but the thickness of the patent leather was thinner than the OGs. So again, not 1:1. We’re not going to see a 1:1 on the JB line. It’s a pipe dream. Lol

Nobody is asking for 1:1. I specifically said none of them are 1:1 and they’re still widely accepted. Nobody is complaining about pl thickness on 11s.

 

[hitman243]

Nobody is asking for 1:1. I specifically said none of them are 1:1 and they’re still widely accepted. Nobody is complaining about pl thickness on 11s.

I would like denser padding in the upper, specifically in the ankle area. All the retro's feel cheap without it. Same with the 12's.

 

[ill4eva]

Nobody is asking for 1:1. I specifically said none of them are 1:1 and they’re still widely accepted. Nobody is complaining about pl thickness on 11s.

I beg to differ

Like I said, someone will always find something to whine about. I have never had a problem with slight variations. The only time I get upset is when the shoes have poor quality (e.g midsole paint cracking on the 4s after a few wears). I could not care less about slant of toebox, wing placement, ankle collar height, patent leather thickness, etc.

 

[brian8598]

I'm in on these, but why all of the leaked images look like this?:

 

[doublemesh96]

I beg to differ

I could not care less about slant of toebox

Woops! There goes 100% of your credibility when it comes to this topic. You’re part of the problem bud. You see this and you’re like “looks fine, I’ll take 2”

Spoiler

 

[RustyShackleford]

Dudes really ready to drop hundreds of dollars on whatever bull**** JB puts in front of them

 

[doublemesh96]

Dudes really ready to drop hundreds of dollars on whatever bull**** JB puts in front of them

Then have the audacity to tell other people not to complain

 

[g-time]

I don't think anyone is saying don't complain. I think what's being said is we should know what to expect with a company that's strictly for profit and been doing this with discrepancies for 25 some odd years now. Like I said earlier, you cut down the number of GR release retros/retro+ per month/year, quality probably sees an uptick.