Jordan XX3 ID mentioned by Tinker?

[wozman23]

i used to hate the idea of a Jordan ID. But im onboard if i can make me some Titaniums.

 

[Methodical Management]

and im FOR ID....i mean hell, only people gonna be cryin are collectors who got DS stashes.....

And that's the most exaggerated excuse people use, too. I have a lot of old DS Jordans - but I'm not going to COMPLAIN if I get theopportunity to buy a new pair that I can actually WEAR. The OGs will ALWAYS have value simply because they're the originals, and true collectors don'tcare about the resale value anyway. They didn't buy to resell. If the only reason you have a pair of shoes is to make other people jealous, you'vegot issues.

Besides, reselling only serves as additional competition for Jordan brand anyway. Whether you pay $800 for some DS originals or $80 for some Canal St. fakes,that's $0 to Jordan brand. Those are your only two options if you want a pair of Jordan V's with Nike Air on the heel, though, or if you want acertain colorway that the brand's squirreling away. If they can't provide the products people want - someone else will. It could be a fake, it couldbe a pair of originals. Most people can't tell the difference now anyway, but at least with an ID system you give those people an authentic OPTION. Inyears past, if you wanted to own the shoes Ray Allen, Eddie Jones, Michael Finley wore on TV.... you'd have to buy fakes. Jordan brand, in all its wisdom,decided to have them wear PE shoes that the average person could ONLY buy as a fake. At least with Jordan ID you can create your own legit pair.

 

[skylarkster]

I should have re-worded the last sentence in my post, I meant Jordan Brand has already devalued their company with releases that look like what M.M. posted.With ID, the market will be flooded with even more of them.

Signature shoes should never have customizable options to the extent of an I.D. shoe. That's just me. What's the point? Where's the uniqueness? TheJordan I in 1985 wasn't a revolutionary shoe by any standards except one: it's insane color scheme for its time. That's the power certain colorwayscan hold, and if professionals would just do color placement CORRECTLY, they might earn their paycheck for once. It's a designers job to work with color.Unfortunately JB sold out to the hypebeast movement with DTRT garbage and ice cream inspired spizikes.

Keep the value of the hot color scheme alive. No ID!

 

[chitown4eva]

let's keep it going...

 

[championhood]

Originally Posted by Method Man

and im FOR ID....i mean hell, only people gonna be cryin are collectors who got DS stashes.....

And that's the most exaggerated excuse people use, too. I have a lot of old DS Jordans - but I'm not going to COMPLAIN if I get the opportunity to buy a new pair that I can actually WEAR. The OGs will ALWAYS have value simply because they're the originals, and true collectors don't care about the resale value anyway. They didn't buy to resell. If the only reason you have a pair of shoes is to make other people jealous, you've got issues.




quoted for truth.....sneaker collectors who oppose da ID are salty cats that just wanna hoard up all da OG colors for themselves and feel its"disgraceful" when someone they don't like has da ability to something they like on a even playing field......and it would most DEFINATELY killany sort of resellin......

but on da other hand..after i cop all da jordans in all da OG's i want..i'd be done wit jordans period.

 

[you ugly]

Signature shoes should never have customizable options to the extent of an I.D. shoe. That's just me. What's the point?
I feel like its just how Method man stated, it provides an authentic option for those who are seeking to purchase those OG colored retro'swithout having to fork over Reseller's ridiculous prices.

I would love for JB to finally allow ID-able Jay's..I mean its great for guys like me who want to add their own twist on a classic shoe. To me its notdevaluing the brand or the shoe whatsoever. If anything, it would create a more intimate relationship with the company. What could be better than adding yourown element to a shoe you fell in love with when you were just a kid?? Not to sound *+$% or anything but that's something that could really be special fora lot of JB fans alike.!!

 

[b1lly hoyle]

I wrote that article...and the second Tinker mentioned doing the XX3 in an ID way I couldn't wait to make it to this month to see if it would be possible.

Unfortunately (or fortunately) it's just not going to happen.

The upper is layered and shaped in a way that it provides a fit unlike any shoe I've ever worn, but when Tinker mentioned the concept at that time over 14months ago, they weren't yet close to figuring out the upper's componentry for feasible production. As it turned out, they needed to create an entirelynew machine to get up into the upper from the throat collar to stitch together a few of the panels, making the possibility for a XX3 ID at the storefront levelentirely unrealistic.

From a marketing standpoint, it's never been JB's stance to ID the Game Shoe, so in looking back on it, it's possible the concept was more afar-fetched goal of Tinker's that just couldn't be executed as the production of this particular shoe had an unforseen amount of challenges being thatit's Considered.

 

[Methodical Management]

the production of this particular shoe had an unforseen amount of challenges being that it's Considered.
From what I'd heard, the concept of doing an in-store ID was only possible BECAUSE the shoe was based on a "considered" platform. The idea was that you could just weave them together, you don't need a sweatshop full of toxic adhesives that don't exactly mesh with a retailenvironment. Hopefully if they continue to use a "considered" base for future Jordan shoes they'll be able to revisit the concept.

From a marketing standpoint, it's never been JB's stance to ID the Game Shoe
It's funny, they still seem to think the game shoe is relevant. Every year they blow their TV budget in two weeks, then let 'em rot. I'm sure they still sell better than any other signature shoe, but it's hardly the brand's focal point.

Once they started forcing "retro" design cues into the product (III and XI especially) the days of the "game shoe," which nobody even wearsanymore, as the cutting edge of basketball were over. You're sitting here with the opportunity to stimulate interest in a shoe that will otherwise sellfor 60% of MSRP in a couple of months.... and you're going to pass on that because the shoe's too "prestigious" for customization by the hoipolloi? Please. As if THAT is what would cheapen the product.

How bad is it when have to do an AIR FORCE I, the most overexposed Nike shoe in history, to make your retros fresh again?

Honestly, it's gonna happen. They can fight it all they like, but they don't have many cards left to play. Shuffle the retros all you like, we'veseen 'em all. Throw 'em in a blender and spit 'em back out, tattoo them with hideous patterns, make them glow in the dark... what do you reallyhave left BUT to cede control to the fans and let us produce the types of shoes WE want? Sure, they'll start with the team shoes - as they always do,teasing a __ "inspired" team shoe the year before the __ retro..., but it's gonna happen. It's just a question of when - and who will beworking there at the time.

Nothing has been sacred for Jordan brand in a long, long time. It's like being married to the same woman for fifty years and watching her perform a striptease. Honey, if you have anything left that I haven't seen yet - I don't WANT to see it.

 

[gime2purr]

*Sighs* welcome to NT.

 

[kdwallace]

As it turned out, they needed to create an entirely new machine to get up into the upper from the throat collar to stitch together a few of the panels, making the possibility for a XX3 ID at the storefront level entirely unrealistic.


Good. If we're concerned about the build quality of current models just imagine how bad it would be if they were being assembled by spotty teenagers in theback of your local NT.

That seemed the most ridiculous part of the proposal to me - a regular ID would make sense with a couple of months lead time but there is no way they couldmake them the same day and have them be of reasonable quality.

 

[yungpyro07]

JB will never make Jordans sigs I'D.......but they're all crazy so idk

 

[nbloomaz]

So i guess it was just an idea..but if it is executed well, like the colors for the parts of the shoe were already decided by JB then there won't be toomuch color variations and thus tread on the line of looking like fakes/variants. Plus a nike store employee that is well trained should be able to put togethera quality shoe--i dont think the nike china factory workers are experts on making quality shoes anyways--just trained so they know what to do, plus the qualityof recent releases were not even that great.

I guess we all have to wait and see what JB holds for the future--and they can start by doing some customer/market feedback program from people who wearjordans and know what is good and what isn't. That way the stuff that they produce can satisfy their loyal customers, and not churn out horrible colorwayslike recent retros and let them sit on sales racks. If a majority of shoe heads want access to infrared VIs or black/cement nike air IIIs then make themavailable as GRs--it also deters resellers from digging into shoeheads' pockets. At first OG collectors may be a little ticked that their OG shoes arebeing mass reproduced. However, I have many OG jordans, and I would not be against having multiple pairs of OG IIIs or IVs, and I wouldnt be mad that a bunchof other people have them either. I think people who love the shoes wouldnt care how many are out there, as long as they have a bunch of them to wear withouthaving to pay sky high reseller prices.

 

[dsk aka illoquent]

Meth's good points in this thread are exponentially growing by the post.

PREACH, Method.

 

[merkurposite]

I think Jordan ID's would be a great idea. I mean, we seriously can't get any worse than some of the crazy colorways JB has already put out. Plus, weall have colorways we dream of seeing, but the only way to get most of them is by buying fakes, which a lot of just flat out won't do (myself included). Itwould be great to actual realize our dream colorways with authentic kicks. Depending on price, I know I'd do at least one pair. If the mark up isn'ttoo ridiculous, I could seriously see myself doing a lot of Jordan IDs.

 

[b1lly hoyle]

Once they started forcing "retro" design cues into the product (III and XI especially) the days of the "game shoe," which nobody even wears anymore, as the cutting edge of basketball were over.
Totally agree. For the last 10 years we haven't really been hit with anything that truly revolutionized the industry. I'll stick with aGarnett III from '99 head-to-head with anything recent. Shoes have been mastered for many years now by guys like Eric Avar and Aaron Cooper, and whileNike's BB2 at $100 changes things at some level with so much cushioning, that's only at the storefront retail hit, as the over abundance of modelsmakes anything available for less in a short time after its release. I've seen shoes being discounted just 2 months after their launch....which was prettyunseen awhile ago.

Retro-inspired shoes aren't going anywhere either, as there's a market and demand for it and from a production end, there's NOTHING that savesmoney more than re-using a tooling. There is some experimental Team stuff on the horizon that I'm hyped for as that's always the direction that gets meexcited, but at the same time the brand has placed a ton of faith and equity in its Retro line and will continue to channel through that familiar catalog.There's also the VI, IX and XI that have remained relatively untouched for the most part in terms of what we've seen released with the IV and V.I've considered those models as "rainy day" shoes for a couple years now that JB will hold onto when a revenue boost is needed.

But, having said all that -- the XX3 is the first shoe in a LONG time where advancements are made and come in the way of the shoe's shape. There's alsoa hit along the tongue with two lacing tabs that's a simple innovation for a better fit as well as a nicely contoured inner lining. If there was ever arecent J that I was entirely excited about to play in, it's this one. The XX1 was stiff and gimmicky w/ the interchangeable IPS...and while the XX2 playedreal well, it doesn't blow anything away and at $175 I preferred the $130 Zoom Kobe II. There's a difference between making a shoe with value thatperforms and happens to cost more as compared to having to hit a $175 price point just to uphold an alleged "Game Shoe mystique."

Also...that strip tease analogy is hilarious...but I got nothing short of a disturbing visual.

 

[vocaldigital23]

LOL....METH for president!

JB president!!!

Oh wait..... Too late.

 

[Methodical Management]

For the last 10 years we haven't really been hit with anything that truly revolutionized the industry.
Give 'im a Tommy point!

Shoes have been mastered for many years now
To be candid, I think this is part of the problem: people within some of these companies seem to think that we've reached some sort ofpostmodernist stage with sneakers. Nothing could be further from the truth. It's not that sneakers have reached the limit of what they're able toaccomplish, it's simply that the industry as a whole has stagnated and become complacent. I think the retro craze, and I'll readily concede that wehave an awful lot to do with that, has been complicit in this stagnation, if not catalytic.

I don't think anyone here would argue that modern sneakers lack room for improvement. If anything, sneakers have REGRESSED in many ways over the last fewyears. Upon the release of the Flightposite in 2000, I recall saying, both on NikeTalk and off, that this was the ONE product that truly met expectations forwhat the world would be like in the year 2000. We don't have flying cars. We don't have holographic television sets. We haven't inhabited otherworlds. We haven't solved world hunger or cured cancer. We don't have robot maids. The shoes, however, were on point. If you took the Flightpositeback in time to yourself as a child in the 80's and said "this is a shoe from the year 2000," you'd believe every word of it. If you showedyour childhood self the Air Flight Skool or the Jordan Spiz'ike and said "this is what basketball shoes look like in 2007," you'd say"yeah right, you got that junk from the flea market didn't you? Those don't even look like real Nikes." Shoes like the Garnett III, theFlightposite, even the original Jordan XIV are superior to anything on the market today - and they're 8-9 years old. That's pathetic, and it'shardly because we've hit some sort of technological peak and it's simply impossible to build a better sneaker than the Garnett III, which they'llnever even retro since Nike has the rights to neither the technology or the player.

There are so many areas that basketball shoes don't even bother addressing. In the year when Reebok came up with a self-inflating pump and Adidas producedthe world's first basketball shoe with a microprocessor, (gimmicks to be certain, though at least functionally motivated) what was Nike's biginnovation? "Lazer" engraving, a staple of the leather industry for years that adds absolutely nothing to the functionality of the product. Formdoes not follow function these days. The big "innovations" on the Nike side are mostly cosmetic. Take the Air Max 360, for example. The hardcorerunning community considers it an absolute joke. You hollowed out a monster truck frame to reduce the weight... and you want people to drive it in a Formula 1race? That's an aesthetic innovation, not a performance innovation. We're still, in 2008, using the same air sole technology from 1988, the same"zoom air" tech from 1998. Shox, clearly, replaced neither - and all of this is cushioning, mind you. We haven't seen ANYTHING substantial inthe area of traction - which is a HUGE concern for basketball players, especially those who don't benefit from the pristine hardwood floors of an NBA arenaand a disposable sneakers to be replaced each game or at whim, whichever comes first.

If the shoes weren't built to fail after a few months, how many people would want or even need to buy new sneakers? What have they really given us thatDEMANDS purchase at the performance level? Those of us on NT buy new sneakers on an aesthetic basis. It's been a long time since I've been intriguedby any shoe due to its performance characteristics or innovation.

We have so much hope for the team line - but at the end of the day the team line, however ambitious, is always shoehorned into low end tech, inferior materialquality, and forced design cues from old Jordans - which shows zero faith in either the designers or the consumers. I don't envy the designers. As anartist, I'd tend to think the last thing you'd want to do is be told to produce a takedown Jordan XI year after year and slap on the gimmicky outsolepattern from the newest "game shoe," which no one of significance even plays in, to make it "current." If all they have left is retro,then at least let me build the retro I want on ID - because I have zero faith in the taste of anyone who'd produce some of the shoes pictured in thisthread. ID didn't kill the Dunk, Nike killed the Dunk. ID didn't kill the AF1, Nike killed the AF1. ID won't kill retro Jordans, either. They've been assiduously bleeding them dry just fine on their own.

I'm glad to hear that the XX3 has a unique fit and a couple of new production techniques... but honestly I wonder how well that will translate to the realworld. Often times sneaker fans get so into this stuff they lap up the pamphlet fodder and subsequently imagine some sort of psychosomatic benefit that simplydoesn't translate to the average person. You'll listen to some people write about sneakers here or in print, and they'll pen some dripping loveletter to a designer and pretend that they can REALLY feel the performance benefit of the reinforced eyelets, inspired by the welding on a German hangglider... it's ridiculous. When I was maybe 3 years old I distinctly remember feeling as though Zips sneakers would make me run faster, wondering why Icouldn't catch the older kids. It was on that day I stopped believing the hype. You read about what people think makes the XX3 special, it's not atab on the tongue, it's the metallic paint on the midsole or the stitching. Come on. Last year, the big innovation was color changing plastic. COLORCHANGING PLASTIC. It didn't even make it into the final product. I don't recall anyone marketing hypercolor t-shirts as performance wear.

I'll readily admit that I'm cynical, but I can't imagine that you could hand a pair of XX3s to a player who knows only that they're Air Jordansand nothing else, let them play a couple games, and that person would then say "WOW!! That's incredible. Something about the fit of these shoes justblows away what I used to use. They must've improved the contour of the lining and added a second lacing tab! I'll never go back to a pair of shoeswith just ONE lacing tab again, that's for sure!" This is the hope we're clinging to? A lacing tab? It's a $185 sneaker released in 2008.

Ironically, in dwelling on the products that USED to make the Air Jordan line the envy of the basketball world, they've lost the very qualities that madethe Air Jordan the flagship for the entire industry. "Remember the III? Everyone loves the III. We should come up with a twist on the cement print! Itshould look like a futuristic Dub Zero!!" The line used to evolve. You could see progress from one pair to the next. At this point, it's just likethey're cross-breeding cavemen.

I've seen the future of the Air Jordan - it's the past.

 

[size twelve]

 

[d e beatup]

A lot of good points by Meth and whit eguy.

I almost feel sorry for Nike Basketball in a way because after a nice couple of years with nothing at all appealing comingout, they've come out of the gate with some steam in '08 with solid new releases and retro releases pretty much true to the original with good quality,but they're still playing second fiddle to the hype of the Jumpman.

As much as I like the XX3, it's not enough that I'm going to buy it next Saturday & play out of the box withthem as I planned. The Zoom BB II's definitely seem to be a superior shoe from my initial analysis, they're almost half the price and have a sleekdesign.

I guess it's just that Jordan Brand really isn't exciting anymore to me. Making super-limited shoes, frankensteinAF1's and expensive packs that people have to buy something they don't want to get the item they do want doesn't spark a flame under myseat.

I would say that it's the beginning of the end for the brand, not from a financial or business standpoint, but on aprestige level. Everyone knows that they leveraged all of their success on the retro line for the past four years and while it's understandable given thecash cow retros are, they took it to a ridiculous level with a retro almost every 2-3 weeks and Fulton St. exclusives that screamed platinumkicks.com circa2001.

What are going to be the laurels they rest on in '09? Fusion 8's and Fusion 20's? If you don't have anyretros, how are you going to hook people? It's a situation they put themselves in by focusing on the past instead of the future. People are more willingto buy a Space Jam XI at the barbershop than pay for a CP3, Jordan Enhancer, 12.5, etc. because they say "I don't fool with Team J's".

I know that they make huge revenues from the sales of Team Jordans, apparel, merchandise, etc., but sales doesn't =prestige. I guess it's gonna take a fugazi knockoff to put them on their heels like Bape did to AF1's a few years ago. All I know is it's still asuccessful brand, but they need to scrap that whole "Quality Inspired By the Greatest Player" ethos cause it just doesn't stand true anymorethese days.

 

[oakcliffguy]

I just hope they do let us do that i want a pair of Titainium's......

 

[rgrooms13]

This is an arguement that will never end. However it is good to see valuable opinions and not just endless ramblings.

So my endless rambling goes like this...........

I am not a hardcore collector, only because I never have the money. I would like to play around with NIKE ID just to see what I could make, and never be ableto purchase. I wouldnt do anything crazy like BAPES, but just a few tweaks here and there. I think it worked pretty well for the KOBE II's. I know itisnt the same as a Jordan signiture, but some really nice colors came out of that ID. Granted there were a few odd ones in the mix, but for the most part theystayed true to either a color that Kobe could wear with the Lakers, or that persons High School team. Even some Bulls colorways made it into the mix.

Nike ID and Jordans could not be any worse than some of the OFF THE WALL retros and FUSIONS that are coming out.

 

[ssgefiestoakagerger]

Originally Posted by Method Man

The sig shoe should be deisgned on by a pro.

They are.... and look at the results:

hahahaha... what if these were THE ONLY SHOES of someone's collection

 

[jordanretrohead23]

a lot of good points made by you guys

 

[prez t]

im all for JB IDing ... who knows when it'll ever happen though

 

[chernabog915]

Here's a possibility of another problem: Say Jordan decides to cave and do ID's, what happens when the well runs dry, and they HAVE to start going backto IV's, III's, XI's, etc, and let the public make their own. What happens when someone makes a near carbon copy of the Cement IV's and startsdriving down the precious value of older shoes down? I'm a collector, and couldn't care about the value of my shoes beyond what it costs to replacethem when they wear out, but the problem is twofold:1) you remove the original color possibilites from the ID line, and you end up with something thatresembles a Paint by Numbers on Acid rendering, or 2) You end up with a flood of shoes many people hold dear to their hearts because they've either hadthem so long or worked so hard to get them and it makes the sentimental value of having them at all meaningless.

I agree with what was said about if I'm Tinker, I don't let someone butcher my idea and make cotton candy colored XX3's. There are reasons theysend out samples and color samples to judge what the public likes. If I was a designer at Ferrari, and I had a hand in the development of any of their cars,and saw some idiot take a million dollar Enzo, and put two tone paint on it, 20 inch rims, and lowered it, and then chromed it in gold, I'd beat the livingsnot out of him right then and there. I used to work for General Cinemas in El Paso 10 years ago, and did a 48 foot long replica of the Titanic to promote themovie. A local high school asked me to build another one, from scratch, different angle, for their prom. So I did. I went to a meeting, came back 2 hourslater, and they had turned it into a Carnival Cruiseline. I split. I never went back to take it down, nor did I bother answering the calls when they asked meto come remove it. When you put your heart and soul into something, something you design and build from nothing, the pain, anger, humiliation and embarassmentof someone ruining it right in front of your eyes is a pain you cannot even begin to explain. It takes talent to build something from nothing. It takes only abox of Crayolas to ruin it.

I read an article recently with one of the Pembertons that was with Ginn Racing in NASCAR, when it got bought out by Dale Earnhardt, Inc., and he had somethingto say that is completely relevant to this topic. He left DEI because he was disturbed by the mentality of management there. Management didn't care aboutdoing what it took to win races, buying the equipment to make better race cars, they cared about preserving Dale Earnhardt's legacy. Last I checked, Dalewas about running over or around anyone between him and the checkered flag. Dale figured his legacy would take care of its self. All he needed to do was worryabout winning. And that's exactly what you can see in Jordan Brand now. They aren't concerned so much with pushing the envelope in new designs in theteam line. They're just sitting their butchering classics because they have no originality or they're afraid to work outside the box. It took all ofthe creative inspiration of a TV dinner to come up with the Spiz'ikes, yet they slapped a $175 MSRP on it and a Jordan logo, and people just HAD to haveit.

I also agree with what Meth had to say about stagnation in the marketplace. I'll give it credit, the XX3 ain't anything anyone was expecting, and Ilike it for that. But EVERYONE and their mother is doing retros. adidas and the Crazy 8's. Ree-suck and all the pumps. Nike and every Air Force shoe knownto man. How many Foamposite retros do we really need? I mean, the original shoe only ever had 2 colors on it. Look at cars now, the Mustang is nothing but acopy of the 70's Mach series. The Camaro is a carbon copy of the 69. The Dodge Challenger is a 70's model. Yeah, they look sharp, but they hold novalue to the consumer aside from, wow, I had one of these once, or my dad had one like this, but this one is lower maintenance, and I'll have it 3 yearsand trade it in. Originality has been replaced in the consumer world by carbon paper. When the Wii came out, people freaked because the controller was WAYdifferent than anything anyone had seen before, yet the public bought it, in droves, and demand can still not be fed. When the original XI dropped, people wentbananas because it was different. Patent leather on a basketball shoe? A white/black basketball shoe you could actually wear in a suit? It had never been donebefore, and right now, it could never be done again. The xx3, in my opinion, is the last original thing Jordan Brand may do, and I'll admit to being thefirst to stand up and applaud them for doing it. Something that looks so, different, so original, so inspired, that it begs to be worn just to be shown off.

And finally, as far as building sneakers in the back of a Niketown, if I can't get the teenager making minimum wage at McDonald's to make my orderright the first time, and I can't get my pizza delivered from 2 blocks away in 30 minutes or less, what makes you think I can believe a couple of peons inthe back of a Niketown, who've been 'specially trained', are going to do any better with my shoes than my order for thin crust, peppperoni,sausage, black olives and green peppers?