Justice League vs Avengers vol. pretty sure this has been debated before

Originally Posted by solarius49

^^^^ True, Hulk technically isnt even an Avenger. As I recall, the Avengers were formed to stop a rampaging Hulk

Actually, Hulk is a founder. They Avengers wasn't formed to stop the Hulk. Thor, Ant-Man, Wasp and IronMan all came to stop the Hulk but soon found it was Lokis trickery and defeated him. That is when those 5 created the Avengers group, so yes the Hulk is a founding member. Captain America is the one who wasn't there in the beginning, which will probably comes as a surprise to most.
 
Originally Posted by GrimlocK

let's close this up.

As a Marvel fan even I know, core group avengers would be wiped out by core group JLA.

I would see GL having a hard time against IM

how?  just imagine GL constructing anything that IM's suit can do

GL is every bit as ridiculous as superman
 
IMO you don't really have too look at Hulk at different periods in time. All you need is the base Hulk that abides by a simple rule, the madder Hulk gets, the stronger Hulk gets. Hulk has some ego and would not accept a loss so he'd just keep getting madder until he won. I'm excluding *+!*$!%% like strand him on a deserted planet or trap him in something. Just cuz you put him at a distance doesn't mean you won the fight. It just means you were smart enough to stop fighting the guy that isn't gonna stop beating you up.
- Ant Man and Wasp vs the Atom:  The Atom is capable of shrinking his body past any point that Pym or Janet Van Dyne could imagine.  Ray Palmer (the Atom) is capable of shinking to the subatomic scale, but also has the advantage of maintaining his full weight.  So essentially the Atom could be the size of a subatomic particle, but still weigh the same as an adult man.  The Atom has also taken down DC's greatest assassin in Deathstroke..he wins

I'm not sure what you're basing this off (or why you even bother to include Janet
laugh.gif
) but Pym is just a human that uses his scientific discoveries and inventions to be a superhero. So to me there isn't different parts of his career where he was x amount of times more powerful than a previous version. From Ant Man to Giant Man that was all pretty much within a few years of his character developing. Also that whole shrinking to a subatomic size and weighing the same is the same for Pym and Janet, that's always been apart of their power set from the start. Now that aside, the man's a genius. Just a year or three ago, he used his pym particles to reach a subatomic dimension called underspace where he created his Infinite Avengers Mansion and then grew to a size to reach overspace and be in the presence of all of Marvel's cosmic beings. A year before that like right before or during Siege on Asgard event he was given the title by Eternity as the Marvel Universe's Scientist Supreme, not just Earth the entire universe. During that time he battled Reed Richards (smartest human on Earth) on an intellectual level to a draw (then they made up and Reed agreed to help him). So to me fighting Pym isn't gonna be about his power against his opponent's it's gonna be about how he uses his brain to defeat you.
Originally Posted by RFX45

Originally Posted by solarius49

^^^^ True, Hulk technically isnt even an Avenger. As I recall, the Avengers were formed to stop a rampaging Hulk
Actually, Hulk is a founder. They Avengers wasn't formed to stop the Hulk. Thor, Ant-Man, Wasp and IronMan all came to stop the Hulk but soon found it was Lokis trickery and defeated him. That is when those 5 created the Avengers group, so yes the Hulk is a founding member. Captain America is the one who wasn't there in the beginning, which will probably comes as a surprise to most.
Yeah most ppl don't realize Cap replaced Hulk. It's fun to see the writers now go back to address that and how much more they flesh it out. Most ppl don't realize that the Hulk that was a founding member could speak in full statements like a regular person.
 
Originally Posted by girlslovewaffles

Originally Posted by ThorrocksJs

I hate that whole batman prep time !#%.Lets be honest Not much Batman can do if a league member went crazy within minutes are decided to kill people around him.Wwh or wolverine would easily murk him in a heartbeat.Not much he can do against folks willing to kill and are relentless like that.If Superman wonder woman or flash wanted him dead he would be dead.Batman is a great detective brilliant mind but he is a man amongst gods.

you're right in that regard, but batman has endless files on how other heroes think and operate. if someone has the potential to "go crazy within minutes" or "snap," batman would already know because this potential is unearthed in psychiatric reports.

it's basically saying, you can go on a rampage at any moment, kill your entire family, and then kill yourself. but that never happens because logically, it doesn't make sense and your mind and body will never do it, no matter how hard you actually "think" about doing it.

batman is well aware of the goodness in the other JL members. he doesn't have to worry about any sudden changes of heart. and if he did, i'm sure there is something in his belt that can negate the person.

when people say that batman will unmask your weaknesses, he's not just talking about weaknesses like kryptonite or getting rid of your armor. when you compare any superheroes mental prowess and will to batman's, they're all at a disadvantage considering batman's reputation as THE greatest detective of all time. he'll go after tony stark instead of iron man if he can't beat iron man. he'll go after bruce banner if he can't get hulk. he'll take advantage of your good heart if you're like superman. not to mention he can always take hostage of clark's family. just lots of things that can be done to hurt someone and bend them to your will. batman knows all these things due to his unlimited resources and genius-level intellect.


Wheres that clapping gif.  Look Batman can and probably would be killed in this battle knowing it meant the protection of planet.  He would lay his life down but best believe a few are coming with him and it won't be nobodys like Hawkeye and Black Widow.  He's taking bosses to the grave with him.  Take "prep time" out the equation that don't factor with Batman if you read the comics.  Dude is acting on the move all the time.  (Read New 52 Dark Knight 5 and 6 with a stronger Bane)

Yes, there will be a successor it's already planned out.
pimp.gif
  
 
Originally Posted by ATGD7154xBBxMZ

IMO you don't really have too look at Hulk at different periods in time. All you need is the base Hulk that abides by a simple rule, the madder Hulk gets, the stronger Hulk gets. Hulk has some ego and would not accept a loss so he'd just keep getting madder until he won. I'm excluding *+!*$!%% like strand him on a deserted planet or trap him in something. Just cuz you put him at a distance doesn't mean you won the fight. It just means you were smart enough to stop fighting the guy that isn't gonna stop beating you up.
- Ant Man and Wasp vs the Atom:  The Atom is capable of shrinking his body past any point that Pym or Janet Van Dyne could imagine.  Ray Palmer (the Atom) is capable of shinking to the subatomic scale, but also has the advantage of maintaining his full weight.  So essentially the Atom could be the size of a subatomic particle, but still weigh the same as an adult man.  The Atom has also taken down DC's greatest assassin in Deathstroke..he wins
I'm not sure what you're basing this off (or why you even bother to include Janet
laugh.gif
) but Pym is just a human that uses his scientific discoveries and inventions to be a superhero. So to me there isn't different parts of his career where he was x amount of times more powerful than a previous version. From Ant Man to Giant Man that was all pretty much within a few years of his character developing. Also that whole shrinking to a subatomic size and weighing the same is the same for Pym and Janet, that's always been apart of their power set from the start. Now that aside, the man's a genius. Just a year or three ago, he used his pym particles to reach a subatomic dimension called underspace where he created his Infinite Avengers Mansion and then grew to a size to reach overspace and be in the presence of all of Marvel's cosmic beings. A year before that like right before or during Siege on Asgard event he was given the title by Eternity as the Marvel Universe's Scientist Supreme, not just Earth the entire universe. During that time he battled Reed Richards (smartest human on Earth) on an intellectual level to a draw (then they made up and Reed agreed to help him). So to me fighting Pym isn't gonna be about his power against his opponent's it's gonna be about how he uses his brain to defeat you.
Originally Posted by RFX45

Originally Posted by solarius49

^^^^ True, Hulk technically isnt even an Avenger. As I recall, the Avengers were formed to stop a rampaging Hulk
Actually, Hulk is a founder. They Avengers wasn't formed to stop the Hulk. Thor, Ant-Man, Wasp and IronMan all came to stop the Hulk but soon found it was Lokis trickery and defeated him. That is when those 5 created the Avengers group, so yes the Hulk is a founding member. Captain America is the one who wasn't there in the beginning, which will probably comes as a surprise to most.
Yeah most ppl don't realize Cap replaced Hulk. It's fun to see the writers now go back to address that and how much more they flesh it out. Most ppl don't realize that the Hulk that was a founding member could speak in full statements like a regular person.

Ya'll going back.  So the OG members where Iron Man, Thor, Hulk Ant-Man and Wasp?  When did it become like that old Super NES game of Cap, Iron Man, Vision, and Hawkeye?

  
 
Originally Posted by jbone2308

Originally Posted by girlslovewaffles

Originally Posted by ThorrocksJs

I hate that whole batman prep time !#%.Lets be honest Not much Batman can do if a league member went crazy within minutes are decided to kill people around him.Wwh or wolverine would easily murk him in a heartbeat.Not much he can do against folks willing to kill and are relentless like that.If Superman wonder woman or flash wanted him dead he would be dead.Batman is a great detective brilliant mind but he is a man amongst gods.

you're right in that regard, but batman has endless files on how other heroes think and operate. if someone has the potential to "go crazy within minutes" or "snap," batman would already know because this potential is unearthed in psychiatric reports.

it's basically saying, you can go on a rampage at any moment, kill your entire family, and then kill yourself. but that never happens because logically, it doesn't make sense and your mind and body will never do it, no matter how hard you actually "think" about doing it.

batman is well aware of the goodness in the other JL members. he doesn't have to worry about any sudden changes of heart. and if he did, i'm sure there is something in his belt that can negate the person.

when people say that batman will unmask your weaknesses, he's not just talking about weaknesses like kryptonite or getting rid of your armor. when you compare any superheroes mental prowess and will to batman's, they're all at a disadvantage considering batman's reputation as THE greatest detective of all time. he'll go after tony stark instead of iron man if he can't beat iron man. he'll go after bruce banner if he can't get hulk. he'll take advantage of your good heart if you're like superman. not to mention he can always take hostage of clark's family. just lots of things that can be done to hurt someone and bend them to your will. batman knows all these things due to his unlimited resources and genius-level intellect.


Wheres that clapping gif.  Look Batman can and probably would be killed in this battle knowing it meant the protection of planet.  He would lay his life down but best believe a few are coming with him and it won't be nobodys like Hawkeye and Black Widow.  He's taking bosses to the grave with him.  Take "prep time" out the equation that don't factor with Batman if you read the comics.  Dude is acting on the move all the time.  (Read New 52 Dark Knight 5 and 6 with a stronger Bane)

Yes, there will be a successor it's already planned out.
pimp.gif
  
QFT, dog just reading that got me pumped up lol
But remember when Batman got his spine broke?  He didnt miss a beat, had his apprentice (Azrael) waiting in the wings to take over.  Batman ALWAYS wants those problems, and wouldnt think twice about going toe to toe with beings much more powerful than himself.  The difference is that when he goes toe to toe with them, he knows that he cant beat them, so it is most likely a feint to set them up for his master plan.  Also Batman is used to fighting enemies that kill for fun
 
Originally Posted by TheHealthInspector

Originally Posted by GrimlocK

let's close this up.

As a Marvel fan even I know, core group avengers would be wiped out by core group JLA.

I would see GL having a hard time against IM

how?  just imagine GL constructing anything that IM's suit can do

GL is every bit as ridiculous as superman
It depends on which green lantern...If it's hal jordan or kyle rayner I believe iron man could make work outta them.  Their not as smart as stark and that's where they lose.  Starks armor could easily withstand most of what their throwing at him (giant fly swatter, a plane, a hand,)  Stark would then make homer find out how their energy source works, distract them and if need be necessary lob off that handzors.

Iron Man can easily distract GL long enough to get it done.
 
Originally Posted by solarius49

Originally Posted by jbone2308

Originally Posted by girlslovewaffles


you're right in that regard, but batman has endless files on how other heroes think and operate. if someone has the potential to "go crazy within minutes" or "snap," batman would already know because this potential is unearthed in psychiatric reports.

it's basically saying, you can go on a rampage at any moment, kill your entire family, and then kill yourself. but that never happens because logically, it doesn't make sense and your mind and body will never do it, no matter how hard you actually "think" about doing it.

batman is well aware of the goodness in the other JL members. he doesn't have to worry about any sudden changes of heart. and if he did, i'm sure there is something in his belt that can negate the person.

when people say that batman will unmask your weaknesses, he's not just talking about weaknesses like kryptonite or getting rid of your armor. when you compare any superheroes mental prowess and will to batman's, they're all at a disadvantage considering batman's reputation as THE greatest detective of all time. he'll go after tony stark instead of iron man if he can't beat iron man. he'll go after bruce banner if he can't get hulk. he'll take advantage of your good heart if you're like superman. not to mention he can always take hostage of clark's family. just lots of things that can be done to hurt someone and bend them to your will. batman knows all these things due to his unlimited resources and genius-level intellect.


Wheres that clapping gif.  Look Batman can and probably would be killed in this battle knowing it meant the protection of planet.  He would lay his life down but best believe a few are coming with him and it won't be nobodys like Hawkeye and Black Widow.  He's taking bosses to the grave with him.  Take "prep time" out the equation that don't factor with Batman if you read the comics.  Dude is acting on the move all the time.  (Read New 52 Dark Knight 5 and 6 with a stronger Bane)

Yes, there will be a successor it's already planned out.
pimp.gif
  
QFT, dog just reading that got me pumped up lol
But remember when Batman got his spine broke?  He didnt miss a beat, had his apprentice (Azrael) waiting in the wings to take over.  Batman ALWAYS wants those problems, and wouldnt think twice about going toe to toe with beings much more powerful than himself.  The difference is that when he goes toe to toe with them, he knows that he cant beat them, so it is most likely a feint to set them up for his master plan.  Also Batman is used to fighting enemies that kill for fun

Exactly and dude knows when he's outmatched and outclassed.  This is why Green Lantern has issues personality wise with Batman because Bruce has to put on a front to stand with the rest of the JLA.  They all know he's just a man but over time the respect came.  Those close enough to hear the human, humble side of Bruce know his heart to an extent.  Alfred then maybe Superman not even his own son Damien, his successor ****, or former Robins Tim or Jason see him weak.

His mind is vastly underrated.
  
 
I once called a comic store and asked "who would win in an all out fight in the Marvel Universe... the dude said "'Cosmic Spiderman' and we have debated this topic and he is our consensus".... any truth to that?
 
Originally Posted by rayray3thousand

I once called a comic store and asked "who would win in an all out fight in the Marvel Universe... the dude said "'Cosmic Spiderman' and we have debated this topic and he is our consensus".... any truth to that?

He was trolling you im pretty sure.  There was also a version where Aunt May had the Infinity Gauntlet lol
 
Originally Posted by rayray3thousand

I once called a comic store and asked "who would win in an all out fight in the Marvel Universe... the dude said "'Cosmic Spiderman' and we have debated this topic and he is our consensus".... any truth to that?

One Above All is the strongest of all Marvel Universe. Even the Living Tribunal answers to him.
 
Originally Posted by RFX45

Originally Posted by rayray3thousand

I once called a comic store and asked "who would win in an all out fight in the Marvel Universe... the dude said "'Cosmic Spiderman' and we have debated this topic and he is our consensus".... any truth to that?

One Above All is the strongest of all Marvel Universe. Even the Living Tribunal answers to him.
I guess in an interview with Stan Lee, he stated that Cosmic Spiderman (when he had the powers) was the strongest hero in the universe (excluding One Above All - which is rumored to be Stan Lee)
 
Idk much about "cosmic spider-man" but...

I read about a battle that was Franklin Richards and Galactus vs the Celestials. At the end of the battle, Franklin and Galactus shared a moment where Galactus said that Franklin would live until the end of time, and at that moment, he will become the new Galactus.
edit:  Cosmic Spider-man is just Spider-man after he acquired the Uni-Power for a short time.  The Uni-Power is a cosmic force that possesses individual heroes and grants them cosmic level abilities in order to accomplish a specific task.  After defeating Magneto, Graviton and something known as the "Tri Sentinel", Spidey lost the Uni-power
 
Originally Posted by jbone2308

Originally Posted by RFX45

Actually, Hulk is a founder. They Avengers wasn't formed to stop the Hulk. Thor, Ant-Man, Wasp and IronMan all came to stop the Hulk but soon found it was Lokis trickery and defeated him. That is when those 5 created the Avengers group, so yes the Hulk is a founding member. Captain America is the one who wasn't there in the beginning, which will probably comes as a surprise to most.
Yeah most ppl don't realize Cap replaced Hulk. It's fun to see the writers now go back to address that and how much more they flesh it out. Most ppl don't realize that the Hulk that was a founding member could speak in full statements like a regular person.
Ya'll going back.  So the OG members where Iron Man, Thor, Hulk Ant-Man and Wasp?  When did it become like that old Super NES game of Cap, Iron Man, Vision, and Hawkeye?

Outside of Iron Man they were all recruited in 60s. The team becomes really fluid going in to the 70s when it's basically Cap's team and just about all of the founding members are gone.
 
Originally Posted by omgitswes

laugh.gif
I wish comics were simple. It's so hard to keep up with all these different story arcs and alt universes.

Its not really that hard. Just start at the beginning then just Wikipedia EVERYTHING. 
 
Originally Posted by GrimlocK

It depends on which green lantern...If it's hal jordan or kyle rayner I believe iron man could make work outta them.  Their not as smart as stark and that's where they lose.  Starks armor could easily withstand most of what their throwing at him (giant fly swatter, a plane, a hand,)  Stark would then make homer find out how their energy source works, distract them and if need be necessary lob off that handzors.

Iron Man can easily distract GL long enough to get it done.


Plus Iron Man's suit is orange and yellow...or has that been retconned?
 
Originally Posted by PLVN

Originally Posted by GrimlocK

It depends on which green lantern...If it's hal jordan or kyle rayner I believe iron man could make work outta them.  Their not as smart as stark and that's where they lose.  Starks armor could easily withstand most of what their throwing at him (giant fly swatter, a plane, a hand,)  Stark would then make homer find out how their energy source works, distract them and if need be necessary lob off that handzors.

Iron Man can easily distract GL long enough to get it done.


Plus Iron Man's suit is orange and yellow...or has that been retconned?
I dont think its currently red and yellow, but if Tony has done his research (which im sure he would) he would def rock an all yellow suit
 
For those that don't remember Amalgam...

ironlant1.jpg


When I was a kid, the Marvel vs DC/Amalgam thing was mind blowing.
 
Originally Posted by solarius49

Idk much about "cosmic spider-man" but...

I read about a battle that was Franklin Richards and Galactus vs the Celestials. At the end of the battle, Franklin and Galactus shared a moment where Galactus said that Franklin would live until the end of time, and at that moment, he will become the new Galactus.
This was a great issue to read...along with the recent one where it explains the Thing's future...being the lasting member of the fantastic four.  I almost wanted to shed a tear at the end...

PLVN please don't bring up the amalgam universe...I never really got over that debacle.  If I do some digging I'll find my issue of dark claw
sick.gif
.
 
Originally Posted by GrimlocK

PLVN please don't bring up the amalgam universe...I never really got over that debacle.  If I do some digging I'll find my issue of dark claw
sick.gif
.


You didn't love that **$* as a kid?

I never got the chance to read all of them but I remember a couple of them being decent. My mind is likely blurred by nostalgia though.

Lobo the Duck
laugh.gif
 
Originally Posted by PLVN

Originally Posted by GrimlocK

PLVN please don't bring up the amalgam universe...I never really got over that debacle.  If I do some digging I'll find my issue of dark claw
sick.gif
.


You didn't love that **$* as a kid?

I never got the chance to read all of them but I remember a couple of them being decent. My mind is likely blurred by nostalgia though.

Lobo the Duck
laugh.gif
Actually at first, I was going nutz for it.  Years later I'm like "they can never get these crossovers right".  And then they bring howard the duck out of nowhere. 

As far as crossovers are concerned...they really do it for good will amongst each company.  they've taken shots at each other all the time.  But the aftermath of said crossovers leaves us with threads like this and in the end we're some damn grown men arguing who's gonna body who
laugh.gif
.  Goku always get thrown in there for no reason.
laugh.gif
and we just let it go until somebody wants to discuss it again.
 
Originally Posted by girlslovewaffles

for those wondering how batman would defeat superheroes, take a look at the "justice league: doom" animated movie.

For the lazy out there.
"Tower of Babel" deals with Batman's perceived betrayal to the superhuman community by keeping records concerning the strengths and weaknesses of his allies in the JLA, including plans to neutralise his allies in a fight. His files are stolen by Ra's al Ghul, who uses them to defeat the League through a coordinated attack to prevent them from interfering with his latest scheme.


On paper, JLA just has much more talent than the Avengers. Superman has the strength of Hulk and Thor while being just as fast as the Flash and LASERBEAMS 
laugh.gif
. It's why he's so unappealing as a superhero; he's the LeBron James of the comic book world (w.o all the crackdown in the 4th). Batman has the technological prowess and wealth of Tony Stark while simultaneously being the world's greatest detective and fighter. Captain America has only one of those qualities. 

The advantage the Avengers have is that their definitely much better at team cohesion (other than Hulk being their Ron Artest) and have more intangibles. They unquestionably trust Captain America on the field despite him not being the best at anything in the Marvel Universe other than leading. And when it comes to the field of war, that matters more.

I have thought about this way too long. I need some *@*!#$ sleep.
 
I'm a Marvel fanboy, so I stick with Avengers. But yes, someone on the 1st page said this is comparing apples to oranges. Idk if these two could even be compared.
 
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