Ingenious Bastard
formerly ingenious nick
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GKMC and DAMN. had huge impacts.
Kanye West: King of the Sunken Place, "Watch the Throne"
- Thread in 'General' Thread starter Started by MalcolmNewton,
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GKMC and DAMN. had huge impacts.
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Ghost writing and ghost producing is just a part of the game. I used to dabble in the music game back here in Chicago and I can confirm Ye slapped his name on beats created by others that he just put a fuzzy synth on. I've also seen exaples of him totally flipping a heat made by someone else and making it is own.
And Ye was also a ghost producing er before he blew up. Best example to call put is Knock Knock by Monica. Missy got the credit...I think Ye is listed as a coproducer...but that was his track. (I think he actually did proeuced a couple of tracks in that album)
That's just how the game goes.
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Who was the actual producer for Down And Out?
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Again, these modern artists have everything decoded for them and all they need to do is arrange it the way they want. Rihana can’t sing for damn **** and she’s an icon. Feelings are getting hurt in here because it’s the truth. Dudes were making timeless classics with $30 Yamaha keyboards, no outside influence, no YouTube fake trending vids, no huge marketing campaigns, no instant iTunes download access. Even the process of actually recording something was an art. Nothing but tape/cd cover art and word of mouth sells yourself. Imagine having to physically get up and make the choice to buy music. That would eliminate almost half the sales of today.
People today are sold the artist and not the art. You’re bombarded with the persona and they bank on you living vicariously through them so you want their clothes, you want to watch their movies, etc. Reading the BS in here is proof of that working. Blatant stupidity yet the fans bend over backwards to justify keeping his clothes or supporting him. Sad boi
People today are sold the artist and not the art. You’re bombarded with the persona and they bank on you living vicariously through them so you want their clothes, you want to watch their movies, etc. Reading the BS in here is proof of that working. Blatant stupidity yet the fans bend over backwards to justify keeping his clothes or supporting him. Sad boi
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“Just how the game goes” pretty much discredits everything you’re trying to argue.
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I kind of get where you're coming from saying an artist can't be a genius, but at the same time I disagree.
I agree on a root level. That root level being that a craft is objective and art is subjective. But I also believe that there are artists that fit into the category.
To me a genius is someone who solves a problem. Just like I posted, Jimi taught himself how to play guitar in not just 1 but 3 ways. He wanted to play the guitar, but had no way to learn left handed, so he taught himself how to play anyway. He saw a problem, and created a solution. A very unorthodox solution, but it took some level of genius to do that, especially at the age of 13.
Stevie Wonder is blind, but plays the piano and the harmonica. He taught himself to play the harmonica at age 5. WHILE BLIND. AT AGE FIVE. He learned the drums at age 8, and we all know he can play the piano. He has an album named "The 12 year old genius", and for good reason. Not because his songs were bangers, but because despite him being blind, he taught himself crafts that required hand eye coordination, despite not having the physical ability to do so.
The level of mental algorithmic ability from people like that is amazing, and worthy of the title "musical genius". Music is just the category, genius is the ability to solve a problem. Someone who's a mathematical genius is a genius not because of their answer, but because of how they got to their answer. A mathematical genius can solve what would be regarded as the most difficult equations without a calculator. Someone who just "gets it" without having to study as hard as others or with minimal effort. Thats what makes him the genius. Mathmatics is just the platform, the craft. The genius is in the ability to solve a problem.
You said that sports are a craft, but music is an art. But music is created using a craft. Whether thats playing the piano, singing, guitar, violin, spoken word, etc. Those are crafts. The songs composed from those crafts is art. Art is subjective, but the craft/skill required to create it with is objective. Just like an athlete has to master the craft of boxing, a musician has to master the craft of playing an instrument. I believe there are masters in both.
So we agree 50/50 on it, because you said yourself that a craft is objective. That I agree with.
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This, we love R&B (country, rock, well some rock) most of the biggest stars don't write their own music.
I know some people say Rap is different but I put it in the same lane. Rap is the only genre that gets flack for "ghoBut just my opinon. st writers" or "ghost producers."
That needs to stop. just my opinion.
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This
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IMO, again, IMO it’s becuase rap music is the easiest to make. By make I mean produce, make lyrics, and sell for a quick turn around. Got dumb ************* like Sixnine or whatever his name is able to make a buck off of it when hes a Mexican guy saying the N word for half the song.
Like Pete Rock and the numerous classics he crafted on the SP-1200 with it's 10 seconds of sample time
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Ye used to beg for Grammy recognition, while Kendrick won a DAMN Pulitzer Prize for its impact.
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I was still in high school when that came out...so all my info is surface level. Google is informing me this is another track given to Ye
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Brian all day Miller
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Its like people can't separate someone being good with someone being a genius. Like, have you guys ever actually met someone who's on that level of creativity and intelligence? They aren't common. People who completely trail blaze and change the world based on solving problems. This is the group ya'll trying to put Kanye as part of?
There isn't a fine line between being great at something and being a genius. It's pretty damn obvious. And its pretty unanimous. The fact that we're arguing Kanye in that light is proof enough that he ain't one.
Einstein, Elon Musk, Percy Julian, Kanye West.
Like bruh, what the ****
Say that **** out loud and rethink your opinion right quick
There isn't a fine line between being great at something and being a genius. It's pretty damn obvious. And its pretty unanimous. The fact that we're arguing Kanye in that light is proof enough that he ain't one.
Einstein, Elon Musk, Percy Julian, Kanye West.
Like bruh, what the ****
Say that **** out loud and rethink your opinion right quick
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I don't agree because it's not a one way street. The guys that have ghost producers or ghost writers typically spend their fair share of ghost producing or ghost writing for others. They get credit for stuff they didn't make while they don't get credit for stuff they did make.
Not that it's how it should be...but it is how it goes.
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Yall going to ride that Pulitzer Prize huh? I'm sure 99% of his fans can't even name the last African American who won a Pulitzer Prize for music....(1995 or 1997 btw)
Majority of that probably didn't even know what it was.
Majority of that probably didn't even know what it was.
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Which is exactly why ghost producing is viable.
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Ye said he's a musical genius so much, a lot of people started believing it. We wouldn't be having this discussion other wise.
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beg?
Kanye doesn’t even attend the Grammys anymore & he has 22
Kendrick literally caters to the Grammys
& I say impact, I mean within music. What has any of Kendrick’s albums influenced? Besides J.Cole
Kanye literally literally killed the popularity of gangster rap with College Dropout & then Graduation. & then shifted hip hop again with 808’s
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Its like people can't separate someone being good with someone being a genius. Like, have you guys ever actually met someone who's on that level of creativity and intelligence? They aren't common. People who completely trail blaze and change the world based on solving problems. This is the group ya'll trying to put Kanye as part of?
There isn't a fine line between being great at something and being a genius. It's pretty damn obvious. And its pretty unanimous. The fact that we're arguing Kanye in that light is proof enough that he ain't one.
Einstein, Elon Musk, Percy Julian, Kanye West.
Like bruh, what the ****
Say that **** out loud and rethink your opinion right quick
I think it depends on how much value you put in urban culture/entertainment.
Kanye has changed **** so many times from beats to birthing whole careers/subgenres to fashion...I was in the mall today and it was surreal to hear the store radio talking about his Trump **** meanwhile silhouettes inspired by his shoes on the wall, dudes walking around with graphic tees inspired by Yeezus/TLOP merch. Without him the last 20 years of urban culture are completely different.
He can be a goofy and a genius at the same time.
Just as you are suggesting we think long and hard about how he is a genius, think long and hard about how he’s not. The only argument I see is that urban culture just doesnt matter that much which may be a valid point, may not be, but is a whole nother convo itself than whether or not he posesses genius talent.
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Which still discredits the artist. I paint you a picture and you signing your name on it gifts you credit? Doesn’t matter how many people do it, they’re all fake. This really isn’t that difficult to understand
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How when The Love Below came out 5 years earlier?
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Where did rap come from? It’s pretty easy to figure out why it’s the only genre that you have to write your own ****. That was the point of rap. To spit your own bars and embarrass someone. Not to spit someone else’s lines. You getting killed for that.
Kanye didn’t make the beat for Down and Out, he helped produce it and that’s what he’s been doing. “Producing” **** and not making beats.
