Kevin Samuels Thread
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Nah broYou know I stumbled upon this Kevin Samuels stuff,
and while I think some of his stuff tips into standard issue misogyny.
I think it exposes an interesting tension between the genders that is unique to our current times.
According to polling women say they want to have 2.6 kids, this number has stayed essentially the same 50 years.
but the number kids women end up having has declined rapidly.
Why?
1. The price of housing in basically every major city in north america has risen dramatically.
2. to afford a house (the primary means of generating wealth in north america) you have to go to college.
maybe even get a postgraduate degree.
which leads to the vicious cycle:
-but the price college has risen dramatically.
-so once you leave school you got a giant student loan bill,
-which makes it more difficult to afford said house.
so that means you probably need to advance in your career a bit before you can afford a house
that means more focus on your job less time to pursue relationships and get married.
By the end of this cycle you're prob in your mid to late 30's at the earliest.
so like KS says
If you pull this off as a man you're 40 making good, money ready to have some kids,
you can simply date younger women.
If you're a woman it's going to be very hard to attract those kind of men.
when they can just date a younger woman and be assured of having kids.
but i just don't agree that this is so much about feminism or whatever Kev is talking about
I think if housing was cheap and abundant,
and college was cheaper, people would get married younger and have kids at a younger age.
and there would be less older unmarried highly educated women calling into Kevs show.
You cannot uncouple the cultural shifts of the past 30-40 years from the dynamics that are currently on display in the dating game.
Truth is, women have all the power when it comes to selection and zero when it comes to marriage. Women have played themselves (men too) by taking all the power in selection in the dating process (proven by dating app statistics)
This leads to a skew in mating/dating whatever that may be. Despite all of these facts, truth remains that any woman can have a man sans these arbitrary barriers they create for themselves. Point blank, they need to lower their standards.
Now on to your main point, as incomes go up people actually have LESS children. How does this fit with your narrative of lack of wealth/increased debt leading to a decrease in child bearing?
TLDR; Samuels has gained traction because he is telling the truth, albeit with some misogyny and sexism sprinkled in. (He gets hate from women but the comments he makes about men sometimes are more cringeworthy imo)
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I just want to see Kevin Samuels and Derrick Jackson in the same room together having a debate for comical purposes.
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I pretty much agree with you like 99%
I just think kevin is underrating the economic factors.
I do agree tho, there have also been social and cultural changes that have caused some women's standards to be unreachable high.
in order for women to make that much money they forstall child bearing,
until it's too late to have the amount of children they want to have.
and if you're a man in a relationship with a high earning career minded women,
you may want to have kids earlier but you can't until she's willing to put her career on hold.
so thus more money = less kids.
but if we live in a world where you don't need a million dollars to afford a decent sized house in an in demand city.
I think more women would be more willing to pause their careers. to have more kids.
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You know I stumbled upon this Kevin Samuels stuff,
and while I think some of his stuff tips into standard issue misogyny.
I think it exposes an interesting tension between the genders that is unique to our current times.
According to polling women say they want to have 2.6 kids, this number has stayed essentially the same 50 years.
but the number kids women end up having has declined rapidly.
Why?
1. The price of housing in basically every major city in north america has risen dramatically.
2. to afford a house (the primary means of generating wealth in north america) you have to go to college.
maybe even get a postgraduate degree.
which leads to the vicious cycle:
-but the price college has risen dramatically.
-so once you leave school you got a giant student loan bill,
-which makes it more difficult to afford said house.
so that means you probably need to advance in your career a bit before you can afford a house
that means more focus on your job less time to pursue relationships and get married.
By the end of this cycle you're prob in your mid to late 30's at the earliest.
so like KS says
If you pull this off as a man you're 40 making good, money ready to have some kids,
you can simply date younger women.
If you're a woman it's going to be very hard to attract those kind of men.
when they can just date a younger woman and be assured of having kids.
but i just don't agree that this is so much about feminism or whatever Kev is talking about
I think if housing was cheap and abundant,
and college was cheaper, people would get married younger and have kids at a younger age.
and there would be less older unmarried highly educated women calling into Kevs show.
Enhhhh. Child birth rates are dropping because people lack social skills and dudes rather look at women on IG/FB/TWITTER, etc. because they don’t know how to talk to women in PERSON. And vice versa. Same for women also. People simply have no social skills due to anxiety, lack of sex, etc.
People were still poor and disenfranchised backed then, and still had kids. Go out in public nowadays, and look how awkward social interactions are.
Babies aren’t being made because men and women do not know how to communicate nowadays. Simple as that
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No roast but who are you kicking it with these males that are dying to have kids?
I sure as hell don't know of any.
You keep mentioning putting off as if they are sacrificing? How about delayed gratification? Understanding that wealth creates wealth?
Homeownership is such a small piece. ****, most successful people I know rent (my age & single obviously)
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Masterclass with a typical Feminist. Kevin holds it down with his talking points.
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I agree with this. But the phrase lower your standards rubs people the wrong way. "Settling" rubs people the wrong way. "Why aren't I entitled to that 6'5 Adonis that makes 6 figures a year as a doctor or lawyer?"
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please explain how I’m wrong.... I’ll wait. A lot of people are awkward as hell out here. Add to that, the use of phones and “looking down” at your phone while in public. Pleaseeeeeeeeeeee tell me I’m wrong. 20-25 years ago, this wasn’t even a thing.
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per polling
women and men aren't that far apart on how many kids they want to have
when poled women have pretty consistently said around 2.6 kids, it's around the same for men.
per AP 8 in 10 want to be fathers.
1. home ownership is the biggest vehicle of wealth creation for average americans.
2. the lack of housing supply also increases rent prices.
so either rent or own if you want a house big enough to have 2.6 kids you need lots of money.
especially if you want to live in a city where all the high paying jobs are,
3. as kevin always stresses women's biological clock does not line up with their career ambitions.
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This may be true, but they don't align with WHEN they want to have them, which leads to the imbalance that Kevin speaks to....Women go from having all the power in their teens and twenties to that power disintegrating as they age towards their 50's. It's simple biology.per polling
women and men aren't that far apart on how many kids they want to have
when poled women have pretty consistently said around 2.6 kids, it's around the same for men.
per AP 8 in 10 want to be fathers.
1. home ownership is the biggest vehicle of wealth creation for average americans.
2. the lack of housing supply also increases rent prices.
so either rent or own if you want a house big enough to have 2.6 kids you need lots of money.
especially if you want to live in a city where all the high paying jobs are,
3. as kevin always stresses women's biological clock does not line up with their career ambitions.
Your argument is flawed because it states that if the housing supply was more plentiful demand would decrease and more women would settle. There are so many assumptions that are taken into account with this statement that it's difficult to wrap my arms around. It assumes that women value mortgages not wealth. It assumes that men with mortgages must be swimming out here no? We know that's false. Your point also adds to my belief that this is actually the problem not the solution. Mating should not be a checklist; mortgage? Check...Degree? Check etc....It should be a total sum arrangement that equals the best fit for you and your partner.
Now on to something I disagree with Kevin on. He is right to say the men care less about a woman's career but it still matters. Most of my peers met their wife in graduate school and even the highly successful couples still have their wives work because they CHOOSE to. I would say this lends itself to the fact that while men don't need a wife to be a doctor, they still search for certain traits that would lead to someone becoming one with regards to marriage.
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You're blaming lower birth rates to simply people looking at their phone more and not talking to each other. Come on you have to think deeper than that
read through this
The birth rate in the US has declined. One reason is economics not moral failure | Moira Donegan
For years the US has made domestic policy that has punished women for becoming mothers, and de-incentivized those who want to have as many children as they would like
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but birth rates been dropping pre social media.
don't get me wrong tho I think social media also has a part in this.
I think social media has conditioned women to be as shallow as men.
and to put greater emphasis on things like height, looks and other physical characteristics
and because social media makes women more class conscious it's also raised the job/career/money expectations
so you need to be borth handsome and 6'+ and
- have a high paying job
- have the same level of education.
I just think a lot of this would alleviated with cheap rents and abundant housing.
it's easier to "settle" when it doesn't cost that much to do so.
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You're blaming lower birth rates to simply people looking at their phone more and not talking to each other. Come on you have to think deeper than that
read through this
The birth rate in the US has declined. One reason is economics not moral failure | Moira Donegan
For years the US has made domestic policy that has punished women for becoming mothers, and de-incentivized those who want to have as many children as they would likewww.theguardian.com
Really? You really deduced that from what I said? I initially said people don’t have social skills, many have anxiety and to go further, some simply don’t have communication skills.
Less human interactions, less talking, equals a smaller number of people having sex. Which equals a DECLINE in babies being made. It’s simple logic.
If people are ignoring one another, not talking or having sex, less children will be born...
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What women say on social media and do in real life are two completely different things lol.
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i totally agree with this.
hate it or love it, home ownership is the primary means of wealth generation in america. that the purpose of mortgages insured by the government.
it was set up as way for average people to save money and generate wealth.
when people say they want to have kids
in order to do that people want stable housing in a nice neighborhood. with nice schools.
you can't do that if you don't have money. so women literally don't have the option of "settling" for man when they are younger
because it's not enough to afford "stable housing in a nice neighborhood. with nice schools."
you have to make more money. leading to you waiting to look for a husband have kids, but by the times that happens you are too old.
If we had cheaper housing and rents, it would be a lot easier for women to start looking for a husband earlier thus avoiding the power imbalance KS talks about.
hey maybe they won't,
maybe you are right an social media has made it impossible for women and men to build relationships at the same rate.
but there's nothing public policy wise we can really do about that
we can increase the supply of housing tho.
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exactly how I feel. Men dont really care that a woman is the ceo of her company or making 6 figures the way women care about men. Just her having a stable career is good enough for men and having a degree for me personally. I dont value a woman more because she has a phd over a bachelors or that she makes $100k over $60k
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we are not talking about what they say or post. We’re simply talking about human interactions. Ya’ll missing the whole point
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Which is why we are exactly in this predicament. A man should DEFINITELY care what a woman does for a living. It’s a two way street. If men started being just as selective, holding women accountable and start thinking with both heads, instead of just women, it’d make things much easier. A lot of people have been to coddled in relationships and in life, in general.
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You don't think it would make things HARDER for all parties involved? Curious as to why that would make things easier.
I come in peace/respect.
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Kevin sliced through that karen's argument like a ninja
I disagree. If she likes her job being a painter or running a coffee shop I’m happy for her. I don’t need her to quit and make 6 figures
it’s the same thing with her and my career. If we are happy with what we are doing in life that’s one less factor for strife in the relationship
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