Kobe's game 7

[bottom74bottom]

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

CP1708:

---

Friend of mine and I had a conversation last night.  He and I worked together back in 2000, we actually watched the finals at work with our boss. 

I remember clear as day, thinking to myself, "he's got a title, monkey is off his back, he can play his whole career now, and nobody can take this away from him, he's a champion"
Then he won in 01
Then in 02
But people still acted like he was Adam Morrison for some reason.  He had to have one without Shaq

For some reason? How is the reason not plainly clear to you?

Tell you what, you mentioned Morrison, so I'll run w/ him. What if Morrison was acting like he's badder than what he is? Just... what if? I guarantee the response would be 'Alright then, go win a championship as something besides a rostered cheerleader.' You want people to recognize you as greater than what you've accomplished, then the demand is going to be for you to step your accomplishments up.

You won 1, then 2, then 3 championships w/ Shaq as the MVP and you want people to recognize that you're 'franchise player' worthy? Then... win one w/o Shaq.

Now, the greater he got and the more impressive his resume became, the more the Jordan comparisons grew, and that had nothing to do w/ Kobe himself, so I'm not going to justify that. I will say that Kobe won't be the last person to have his every accomplishment measured by Jordan's standard. We both know that.

That's the part EYE hate. I'm always arguing with some hater trying to explain to them that the comparisons are all in their head.

" Kobe's just being Kobe. YOU (they) make the comparisons, Kobe doesn't. Kobe doesn't care.."
"But he still ain't better than MJ though"
"

.... and what does MJ being great actually have to do with how good Kobe is? Would you rather remember great games or watch them now? Stop living in the past. Me personally, if I spend the next 50 years watching the NBA, I'd hate to only have enjoyed Jordan's legacy, or Kobe's for that matter.. or else, what's the point?"


People defer to Jordan as if he's their Champion and it's his sworn duty to uphold their belief in him. I hate it. I love MJ, but I hate the force field around his sack. Jordan didn't win 6 rings with the Chicago Media & Fans Around The Globe, he played with the Chicago Bulls. So I really wish people would stop going to bat for him like he went to bat for them. The man's legacy is intact,. He's great. He's THE greatest. He beat the Jazz and everyone else without coming off screens from Media & Fans Around The Globe, so I'm fairly positive he doesn't need Media & Fans Around The Globe sticking up for his spotless resume anyway.  It's like as soon as some one actually gets close to matching his greatness, cats wanna come blow whistles..

"Nuh uh.... they hand checked MJ"
"What about the zones?!?! Lord Jordan would have..."
"Jordan never had a Shaq!!!"

"Kobe never had a Pippen... or a Rodman...right? I mean, that's one hell of a triangle O... right?"

There's always a counter argument for these guys, but WHY do we even have to have these debates? Can't we all just accept that  the whole "the next Jordan" title is played out? Only MJ was MJ, and most of the way you feel about it is great PR to be real. As good as he is, he was sold to us even better. And we fell for it.  It was worth it. We got to cheer him to 6 rings, buy thousands of dollars worth of shoes, and everything in between. It's truly been a generational cornerstone to say "I was apart of the Air Jordan legacy"....but that was then. Stop saving the past.. Embrace what is... and RIGHT NOW... Kobe IS that man.

 

[sooperhooper]

A lot of people don't like/are jealous of Kobe so they are going to be EXTRA critical of everything he does. The usual method is by attempting to discredit everything he does by comparing it to Jordan. These are usually Haters that attempt to do this. I even saw a dude on facebook with a shirt that said "Kobe is not Mike" as his profile pic

The hate is strong.

 

[sooperhooper]

A lot of people don't like/are jealous of Kobe so they are going to be EXTRA critical of everything he does. The usual method is by attempting to discredit everything he does by comparing it to Jordan. These are usually Haters that attempt to do this. I even saw a dude on facebook with a shirt that said "Kobe is not Mike" as his profile pic

The hate is strong.

 

[cedric ceballos 1995 lakers]

this is my take on kobe and he's my favorite player because i grew up watching his entire career.

when he has a bad game, the haters, people who got michael jordans dna between their teeth, and just anyone in general who's anti Laker will overreact and make that game sound way worse then what it really was and overreact on every little detail of it and it's pretty damn annoying.

when he has a good game, the Kobe stans, dudes that like Kobe way more then they do the Lakers, and the dudes who make Laker fans look bad, will come out and hype up every little thing he did in that game and be on his nuts worse then mark jackson is when he's announcing a Laker game on ABC

either way you get the worst of both worlds.

 

[cedric ceballos 1995 lakers]

this is my take on kobe and he's my favorite player because i grew up watching his entire career.

when he has a bad game, the haters, people who got michael jordans dna between their teeth, and just anyone in general who's anti Laker will overreact and make that game sound way worse then what it really was and overreact on every little detail of it and it's pretty damn annoying.

when he has a good game, the Kobe stans, dudes that like Kobe way more then they do the Lakers, and the dudes who make Laker fans look bad, will come out and hype up every little thing he did in that game and be on his nuts worse then mark jackson is when he's announcing a Laker game on ABC

either way you get the worst of both worlds.

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by Xtapolapacetl



Again, I remember both these things. I also remember that Duncan's bad shooting didn't go unnoticed and a player more deserving (Tony Parker) won the MVP. But of course, this wasn't the case for Gasol in 2010 because they "tend to play by different rules with Kobe".




Game 4 2000 Finals: 4-20, 8 points, 5 rebounds, 3 assists 
Game 1 2001 Finals: 7-22, 15 points, 3 rebounds, 5 assists, 6 turnovers
Game 1 2004 Finals: 10-27, 25 points, 4 rebounds, 4 assists
Game 3 2004 Finals: 4-13, 11 points, 3 rebounds, 4 assists, 4 turnovers
Game 4 2004 Finals: 8-25, 22 points, 0 rebounds, 2 assists
Game 5 2004 Finals: 7-21, 24 points, 3 rebounds, 4 assists
Game 1 2008 Finals: 9-26, 24 points, 3 rebounds, 6 assists, 4 turnovers
Game 4 2008 Finals: 6-19, 17 points, 4 rebounds, 10 assists 
Game 5 2008 Finals: 8-21, 25 points, 7 rebounds, 4 assists, 6 turnovers 
Game 6 2008 Finals: 7-22, 22 points, 3 rebounds, 1 assist, 4 turnovers
Game 4 2009 Finals: 11-31, 32 points, 7 rebounds, 8 assists 
Game 3 2010 Finals: 10-29, 29 points, 7 rebounds, 4 assists  
Game 7 2010 Finals: 6-24, 23 points, 15 rebounds, 2 assists, 4 turnovers  

That game 4 in 2000 is wrong dude.  Game 4 is the game that Kobe went off in OT after Shaq fouled out, and won the game, ON THE ROAD, at the age of 21, to put the Lakers up 3-1, after missing game 3, due to a severly sprained ankle, suffered in game 2.  But I'm sure you remember that. 

And as for your "Gasol should be MVP"  I posted every MVP from 1980 til today in the 2-3 zone thread, your Gasol argument died in that post.  From here on out, you can no longer claim that stuff without looking ridiculous.  I'll re-post it in here if you would like. 

  

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by Xtapolapacetl



Again, I remember both these things. I also remember that Duncan's bad shooting didn't go unnoticed and a player more deserving (Tony Parker) won the MVP. But of course, this wasn't the case for Gasol in 2010 because they "tend to play by different rules with Kobe".




Game 4 2000 Finals: 4-20, 8 points, 5 rebounds, 3 assists 
Game 1 2001 Finals: 7-22, 15 points, 3 rebounds, 5 assists, 6 turnovers
Game 1 2004 Finals: 10-27, 25 points, 4 rebounds, 4 assists
Game 3 2004 Finals: 4-13, 11 points, 3 rebounds, 4 assists, 4 turnovers
Game 4 2004 Finals: 8-25, 22 points, 0 rebounds, 2 assists
Game 5 2004 Finals: 7-21, 24 points, 3 rebounds, 4 assists
Game 1 2008 Finals: 9-26, 24 points, 3 rebounds, 6 assists, 4 turnovers
Game 4 2008 Finals: 6-19, 17 points, 4 rebounds, 10 assists 
Game 5 2008 Finals: 8-21, 25 points, 7 rebounds, 4 assists, 6 turnovers 
Game 6 2008 Finals: 7-22, 22 points, 3 rebounds, 1 assist, 4 turnovers
Game 4 2009 Finals: 11-31, 32 points, 7 rebounds, 8 assists 
Game 3 2010 Finals: 10-29, 29 points, 7 rebounds, 4 assists  
Game 7 2010 Finals: 6-24, 23 points, 15 rebounds, 2 assists, 4 turnovers  

That game 4 in 2000 is wrong dude.  Game 4 is the game that Kobe went off in OT after Shaq fouled out, and won the game, ON THE ROAD, at the age of 21, to put the Lakers up 3-1, after missing game 3, due to a severly sprained ankle, suffered in game 2.  But I'm sure you remember that. 

And as for your "Gasol should be MVP"  I posted every MVP from 1980 til today in the 2-3 zone thread, your Gasol argument died in that post.  From here on out, you can no longer claim that stuff without looking ridiculous.  I'll re-post it in here if you would like. 

  

 

[got shoes]

great find OP

 

[got shoes]

great find OP

 

[purplerelgn]

Originally Posted by CP1708

Originally Posted by Xtapolapacetl



Again, I remember both these things. I also remember that Duncan's bad shooting didn't go unnoticed and a player more deserving (Tony Parker) won the MVP. But of course, this wasn't the case for Gasol in 2010 because they "tend to play by different rules with Kobe".




Game 4 2000 Finals: 4-20, 8 points, 5 rebounds, 3 assists 
Game 1 2001 Finals: 7-22, 15 points, 3 rebounds, 5 assists, 6 turnovers
Game 1 2004 Finals: 10-27, 25 points, 4 rebounds, 4 assists
Game 3 2004 Finals: 4-13, 11 points, 3 rebounds, 4 assists, 4 turnovers
Game 4 2004 Finals: 8-25, 22 points, 0 rebounds, 2 assists
Game 5 2004 Finals: 7-21, 24 points, 3 rebounds, 4 assists
Game 1 2008 Finals: 9-26, 24 points, 3 rebounds, 6 assists, 4 turnovers
Game 4 2008 Finals: 6-19, 17 points, 4 rebounds, 10 assists 
Game 5 2008 Finals: 8-21, 25 points, 7 rebounds, 4 assists, 6 turnovers 
Game 6 2008 Finals: 7-22, 22 points, 3 rebounds, 1 assist, 4 turnovers
Game 4 2009 Finals: 11-31, 32 points, 7 rebounds, 8 assists 
Game 3 2010 Finals: 10-29, 29 points, 7 rebounds, 4 assists  
Game 7 2010 Finals: 6-24, 23 points, 15 rebounds, 2 assists, 4 turnovers  

That game 4 in 2000 is wrong dude.  Game 4 is the game that Kobe went off in OT after Shaq fouled out, and won the game, ON THE ROAD, at the age of 21, to put the Lakers up 3-1, after missing game 3, due to a severly sprained ankle, suffered in game 2.  But I'm sure you remember that. 

And as for your "Gasol should be MVP"  I posted every MVP from 1980 til today in the 2-3 zone thread, your Gasol argument died in that post.  From here on out, you can no longer claim that stuff without looking ridiculous.  I'll re-post it in here if you would like. 

  

Originally Posted by Xtapolapacetl

Again,I remember both these things. I also remember that Duncan's badshooting didn't go unnoticed and a player more deserving (Tony Parker)won the MVP. But of course, this wasn't the case for Gasol in 2010because they "tend to play by different rules with Kobe".

Parker avg 07 finals
25,5,3

Kobe avg 10 finals
28,8,4


Duncan avg 07 finals
18,11,4

Gasol avg 10 finals
18,11,4

 

[purplerelgn]

Originally Posted by CP1708

Originally Posted by Xtapolapacetl



Again, I remember both these things. I also remember that Duncan's bad shooting didn't go unnoticed and a player more deserving (Tony Parker) won the MVP. But of course, this wasn't the case for Gasol in 2010 because they "tend to play by different rules with Kobe".




Game 4 2000 Finals: 4-20, 8 points, 5 rebounds, 3 assists 
Game 1 2001 Finals: 7-22, 15 points, 3 rebounds, 5 assists, 6 turnovers
Game 1 2004 Finals: 10-27, 25 points, 4 rebounds, 4 assists
Game 3 2004 Finals: 4-13, 11 points, 3 rebounds, 4 assists, 4 turnovers
Game 4 2004 Finals: 8-25, 22 points, 0 rebounds, 2 assists
Game 5 2004 Finals: 7-21, 24 points, 3 rebounds, 4 assists
Game 1 2008 Finals: 9-26, 24 points, 3 rebounds, 6 assists, 4 turnovers
Game 4 2008 Finals: 6-19, 17 points, 4 rebounds, 10 assists 
Game 5 2008 Finals: 8-21, 25 points, 7 rebounds, 4 assists, 6 turnovers 
Game 6 2008 Finals: 7-22, 22 points, 3 rebounds, 1 assist, 4 turnovers
Game 4 2009 Finals: 11-31, 32 points, 7 rebounds, 8 assists 
Game 3 2010 Finals: 10-29, 29 points, 7 rebounds, 4 assists  
Game 7 2010 Finals: 6-24, 23 points, 15 rebounds, 2 assists, 4 turnovers  

That game 4 in 2000 is wrong dude.  Game 4 is the game that Kobe went off in OT after Shaq fouled out, and won the game, ON THE ROAD, at the age of 21, to put the Lakers up 3-1, after missing game 3, due to a severly sprained ankle, suffered in game 2.  But I'm sure you remember that. 

And as for your "Gasol should be MVP"  I posted every MVP from 1980 til today in the 2-3 zone thread, your Gasol argument died in that post.  From here on out, you can no longer claim that stuff without looking ridiculous.  I'll re-post it in here if you would like. 

  

Originally Posted by Xtapolapacetl

Again,I remember both these things. I also remember that Duncan's badshooting didn't go unnoticed and a player more deserving (Tony Parker)won the MVP. But of course, this wasn't the case for Gasol in 2010because they "tend to play by different rules with Kobe".

Parker avg 07 finals
25,5,3

Kobe avg 10 finals
28,8,4


Duncan avg 07 finals
18,11,4

Gasol avg 10 finals
18,11,4

 

[fro b giant]

I hate the comparisons because Kobe is NOT MJ he is Kobe. He is good enough to be mentioned in the same breath as MJ and that's that. I understand why the comparisons are made but I don't agree with them.

The body of work is so different, none of it is the same only the titles won is what we can take from it.

My God the leagues rules, teams, players are not the same to it is impossible to tell what WOULD have happened if their careers were played at the exact same time.

Let Kobe be Kobe and MJ, MJ.

When thinking of a players greatness I ask myself would I rather have that player on my team or play against him, for both MJ and Kobe I would want them on my team without hesitation or thought. I would hate to play against him, not saying there isn't a way to defend him but he is great enough to warrant teams having a "Kobe game plan" and STILL not be able to stop him from FINDING WAYS TO WIN! That is greatness! You want to put him in bad situations to make him take bad shots, ok but he's still going hard on defense and pulling down 15 rebounds, you can't stop him from everything. Only Kobe can stop himself.

I feel the same way about MJ, you could game plan him all day and still he would find a way to beat you. HE WANTED IT MORE THAN YOU! He found other ways to dissect your team and win. That to me is all that matters when you are talking about greatness! WIN and nobody can take that away.

Magic will widely be considered the greatest Laker still, but don't think he didn't have help. He had plenty of weapons on his championship team, he also just found a way to win. He was a different weapon though. He GOT OTHER PEOPLE POINTS and found ways to get the ball to the right people at the right time, a true art. I will consider him the greatest laker still, with Kobe close behind because he was a able to play all 5 positions effectively in one Finals game and be THE absolute best player on that floor in a situation where the odds were stacked against him pretty good, that to me is tough to pass. Could he do it 9 games out of 10? I don't know but he didn't have to, all he needed was that one night.

Bottom line is Kobe is in the upper echelon of players to ever play the game! If there are 5 reason to say otherwise I would like to hear them.

 

[fro b giant]

I hate the comparisons because Kobe is NOT MJ he is Kobe. He is good enough to be mentioned in the same breath as MJ and that's that. I understand why the comparisons are made but I don't agree with them.

The body of work is so different, none of it is the same only the titles won is what we can take from it.

My God the leagues rules, teams, players are not the same to it is impossible to tell what WOULD have happened if their careers were played at the exact same time.

Let Kobe be Kobe and MJ, MJ.

When thinking of a players greatness I ask myself would I rather have that player on my team or play against him, for both MJ and Kobe I would want them on my team without hesitation or thought. I would hate to play against him, not saying there isn't a way to defend him but he is great enough to warrant teams having a "Kobe game plan" and STILL not be able to stop him from FINDING WAYS TO WIN! That is greatness! You want to put him in bad situations to make him take bad shots, ok but he's still going hard on defense and pulling down 15 rebounds, you can't stop him from everything. Only Kobe can stop himself.

I feel the same way about MJ, you could game plan him all day and still he would find a way to beat you. HE WANTED IT MORE THAN YOU! He found other ways to dissect your team and win. That to me is all that matters when you are talking about greatness! WIN and nobody can take that away.

Magic will widely be considered the greatest Laker still, but don't think he didn't have help. He had plenty of weapons on his championship team, he also just found a way to win. He was a different weapon though. He GOT OTHER PEOPLE POINTS and found ways to get the ball to the right people at the right time, a true art. I will consider him the greatest laker still, with Kobe close behind because he was a able to play all 5 positions effectively in one Finals game and be THE absolute best player on that floor in a situation where the odds were stacked against him pretty good, that to me is tough to pass. Could he do it 9 games out of 10? I don't know but he didn't have to, all he needed was that one night.

Bottom line is Kobe is in the upper echelon of players to ever play the game! If there are 5 reason to say otherwise I would like to hear them.

 

[xtapolapacetl]

Originally Posted by CP1708

Xtapolapacetl wrote:

---

Again, I remember both these things. I also remember that Duncan's bad shooting didn't go unnoticed and a player more deserving (Tony Parker) won the MVP. But of course, this wasn't the case for Gasol in 2010 because they "tend to play by different rules with Kobe".




Game 4 2000 Finals: 4-20, 8 points, 5 rebounds, 3 assists 
Game 1 2001 Finals: 7-22, 15 points, 3 rebounds, 5 assists, 6 turnovers
Game 1 2004 Finals: 10-27, 25 points, 4 rebounds, 4 assists
Game 3 2004 Finals: 4-13, 11 points, 3 rebounds, 4 assists, 4 turnovers
Game 4 2004 Finals: 8-25, 22 points, 0 rebounds, 2 assists
Game 5 2004 Finals: 7-21, 24 points, 3 rebounds, 4 assists
Game 1 2008 Finals: 9-26, 24 points, 3 rebounds, 6 assists, 4 turnovers
Game 4 2008 Finals: 6-19, 17 points, 4 rebounds, 10 assists 
Game 5 2008 Finals: 8-21, 25 points, 7 rebounds, 4 assists, 6 turnovers 
Game 6 2008 Finals: 7-22, 22 points, 3 rebounds, 1 assist, 4 turnovers
Game 4 2009 Finals: 11-31, 32 points, 7 rebounds, 8 assists 
Game 3 2010 Finals: 10-29, 29 points, 7 rebounds, 4 assists  
Game 7 2010 Finals: 6-24, 23 points, 15 rebounds, 2 assists, 4 turnovers  

That game 4 in 2000 is wrong dude.  Game 4 is the game that Kobe went off in OT after Shaq fouled out, and won the game, ON THE ROAD, at the age of 21, to put the Lakers up 3-1, after missing game 3, due to a severly sprained ankle, suffered in game 2.  But I'm sure you remember that. 

And as for your "Gasol should be MVP"  I posted every MVP from 1980 til today in the 2-3 zone thread, your Gasol argument died in that post.  From here on out, you can no longer claim that stuff without looking ridiculous.  I'll re-post it in here if you would like. 

  


Yeah, okay, I should've posted game 5, but it was Kobe's 4th game of the series. Doesn't make any difference though..

And your argument that a top scorer = finals MVP is ridiculous. Just because most Finals MVPs of the past happen to be top scorers as well. You managed to find out that all but 3 Finals MVPs were top scorers (pretty sure that Kareem had a higher scoring average in 1980 than Magic, but Magic won Finals MVP because of his clutch performance). But tell me then, how many of those Finals MVPs shot .405 or under?

 

[xtapolapacetl]

Originally Posted by CP1708

Xtapolapacetl wrote:

---

Again, I remember both these things. I also remember that Duncan's bad shooting didn't go unnoticed and a player more deserving (Tony Parker) won the MVP. But of course, this wasn't the case for Gasol in 2010 because they "tend to play by different rules with Kobe".




Game 4 2000 Finals: 4-20, 8 points, 5 rebounds, 3 assists 
Game 1 2001 Finals: 7-22, 15 points, 3 rebounds, 5 assists, 6 turnovers
Game 1 2004 Finals: 10-27, 25 points, 4 rebounds, 4 assists
Game 3 2004 Finals: 4-13, 11 points, 3 rebounds, 4 assists, 4 turnovers
Game 4 2004 Finals: 8-25, 22 points, 0 rebounds, 2 assists
Game 5 2004 Finals: 7-21, 24 points, 3 rebounds, 4 assists
Game 1 2008 Finals: 9-26, 24 points, 3 rebounds, 6 assists, 4 turnovers
Game 4 2008 Finals: 6-19, 17 points, 4 rebounds, 10 assists 
Game 5 2008 Finals: 8-21, 25 points, 7 rebounds, 4 assists, 6 turnovers 
Game 6 2008 Finals: 7-22, 22 points, 3 rebounds, 1 assist, 4 turnovers
Game 4 2009 Finals: 11-31, 32 points, 7 rebounds, 8 assists 
Game 3 2010 Finals: 10-29, 29 points, 7 rebounds, 4 assists  
Game 7 2010 Finals: 6-24, 23 points, 15 rebounds, 2 assists, 4 turnovers  

That game 4 in 2000 is wrong dude.  Game 4 is the game that Kobe went off in OT after Shaq fouled out, and won the game, ON THE ROAD, at the age of 21, to put the Lakers up 3-1, after missing game 3, due to a severly sprained ankle, suffered in game 2.  But I'm sure you remember that. 

And as for your "Gasol should be MVP"  I posted every MVP from 1980 til today in the 2-3 zone thread, your Gasol argument died in that post.  From here on out, you can no longer claim that stuff without looking ridiculous.  I'll re-post it in here if you would like. 

  


Yeah, okay, I should've posted game 5, but it was Kobe's 4th game of the series. Doesn't make any difference though..

And your argument that a top scorer = finals MVP is ridiculous. Just because most Finals MVPs of the past happen to be top scorers as well. You managed to find out that all but 3 Finals MVPs were top scorers (pretty sure that Kareem had a higher scoring average in 1980 than Magic, but Magic won Finals MVP because of his clutch performance). But tell me then, how many of those Finals MVPs shot .405 or under?

 

[deuce king]

Definitely not entirely true and depends on the context. If someone mentions Jerry West casually, we might remember him as The Logo. If someone starts comparing Jerry West to Michael Jordan, you best believe everything negative about his career will be pointed out to show that he's not Michael Jordan. The same goes for every other player, depending on the magnitude of the claim made about him. And this where this whole article fails.

.......and that's where it all begins and ends for Kobe Bryant and the rest of his fanbase.  If only you Kobe fans wouldn't compare or even think to compare Kobe to MJ then you might be okay.  Instead you dudes make foolish accusations trying to say Kobe is on Jordan's level or even worse yet better than MJ.  Most of you Kobe fans dig your own graves when you try to compare Kobe to MJ, all you gotta dude is just look at Kobe for who and what he is and leave it at that.

You won 1, then 2, then 3 championships w/ Shaq as the MVP and you want people to recognize that you're 'franchise player' worthy?

 

Exactly, just another example of how Kobe played the role of Robin while Shaq played the role or Batman while they were together.

jordan is jordan, bird is bird and magic is magic they are the best in their position but its unfair to really compare these new guys to them

I couldn't agree more champ, now all you gotta do is spread that message to the rest of you Lakers brethren and this forum would be alot better

.

  

 

[deuce king]

Definitely not entirely true and depends on the context. If someone mentions Jerry West casually, we might remember him as The Logo. If someone starts comparing Jerry West to Michael Jordan, you best believe everything negative about his career will be pointed out to show that he's not Michael Jordan. The same goes for every other player, depending on the magnitude of the claim made about him. And this where this whole article fails.

.......and that's where it all begins and ends for Kobe Bryant and the rest of his fanbase.  If only you Kobe fans wouldn't compare or even think to compare Kobe to MJ then you might be okay.  Instead you dudes make foolish accusations trying to say Kobe is on Jordan's level or even worse yet better than MJ.  Most of you Kobe fans dig your own graves when you try to compare Kobe to MJ, all you gotta dude is just look at Kobe for who and what he is and leave it at that.

You won 1, then 2, then 3 championships w/ Shaq as the MVP and you want people to recognize that you're 'franchise player' worthy?

 

Exactly, just another example of how Kobe played the role of Robin while Shaq played the role or Batman while they were together.

jordan is jordan, bird is bird and magic is magic they are the best in their position but its unfair to really compare these new guys to them

I couldn't agree more champ, now all you gotta do is spread that message to the rest of you Lakers brethren and this forum would be alot better

.

  

 

[アミーゴ]

I dont get why he's even compared to these people that aren't playing the game right now...

How can he even be compared to Timmy?? Different positions, league is different, everything...

 

[アミーゴ]

I dont get why he's even compared to these people that aren't playing the game right now...

How can he even be compared to Timmy?? Different positions, league is different, everything...

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by Xtapolapacetl

Originally Posted by CP1708

Xtapolapacetl wrote:

---

Again, I remember both these things. I also remember that Duncan's bad shooting didn't go unnoticed and a player more deserving (Tony Parker) won the MVP. But of course, this wasn't the case for Gasol in 2010 because they "tend to play by different rules with Kobe".




Game 4 2000 Finals: 4-20, 8 points, 5 rebounds, 3 assists 
Game 1 2001 Finals: 7-22, 15 points, 3 rebounds, 5 assists, 6 turnovers
Game 1 2004 Finals: 10-27, 25 points, 4 rebounds, 4 assists
Game 3 2004 Finals: 4-13, 11 points, 3 rebounds, 4 assists, 4 turnovers
Game 4 2004 Finals: 8-25, 22 points, 0 rebounds, 2 assists
Game 5 2004 Finals: 7-21, 24 points, 3 rebounds, 4 assists
Game 1 2008 Finals: 9-26, 24 points, 3 rebounds, 6 assists, 4 turnovers
Game 4 2008 Finals: 6-19, 17 points, 4 rebounds, 10 assists 
Game 5 2008 Finals: 8-21, 25 points, 7 rebounds, 4 assists, 6 turnovers 
Game 6 2008 Finals: 7-22, 22 points, 3 rebounds, 1 assist, 4 turnovers
Game 4 2009 Finals: 11-31, 32 points, 7 rebounds, 8 assists 
Game 3 2010 Finals: 10-29, 29 points, 7 rebounds, 4 assists  
Game 7 2010 Finals: 6-24, 23 points, 15 rebounds, 2 assists, 4 turnovers  

That game 4 in 2000 is wrong dude.  Game 4 is the game that Kobe went off in OT after Shaq fouled out, and won the game, ON THE ROAD, at the age of 21, to put the Lakers up 3-1, after missing game 3, due to a severly sprained ankle, suffered in game 2.  But I'm sure you remember that. 

And as for your "Gasol should be MVP"  I posted every MVP from 1980 til today in the 2-3 zone thread, your Gasol argument died in that post.  From here on out, you can no longer claim that stuff without looking ridiculous.  I'll re-post it in here if you would like. 

  

Yeah, okay, I should've posted game 5, but it was Kobe's 4th game of the series. Doesn't make any difference though..

And your argument that a top scorer = finals MVP is ridiculous. Just because most Finals MVPs of the past happen to be top scorers as well. You managed to find out that all but 3 Finals MVPs were top scorers (pretty sure that Kareem had a higher scoring average in 1980 than Magic, but Magic won Finals MVP because of his clutch performance). But tell me then, how many of those Finals MVPs shot .405 or under?
It does not matter.  That's the point.  The historical precedence is set in stone now.  30 years (and it could go even further back, but checking that would be exhausting) 30 years AT LEAST, and the leading scorer is there each and every year save a couple.  And those couple were a difference of 2 total points one year, and a guy that was half a board and half an assist away from a triple double for the series.  Period, point blank, end of story.  The leading scorer, no matter how he got there, was MVP basically every year. 

Look at what Reign just put up about 07 and 2010.  That also shows you what you were asking for. 

And further, 28 out of 30 scored more then 20PPG.  The two that didn't, did not have a 20 ppg guy on the winning team, so they had to win. 

I don't know about 1980, I looked at that last night, and I saw Magic as the leading scorer, but I suppose you could be right.  Maybe I didn't pay enough attention on that one.  But still, Magic went 42 15 and 7 as a rook at a different position, on the road, without another superstar, I'ma go out on a limb and say this one was ok even if Kareem was the leading scorer. 

  

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by Xtapolapacetl

Originally Posted by CP1708

Xtapolapacetl wrote:

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Again, I remember both these things. I also remember that Duncan's bad shooting didn't go unnoticed and a player more deserving (Tony Parker) won the MVP. But of course, this wasn't the case for Gasol in 2010 because they "tend to play by different rules with Kobe".




Game 4 2000 Finals: 4-20, 8 points, 5 rebounds, 3 assists 
Game 1 2001 Finals: 7-22, 15 points, 3 rebounds, 5 assists, 6 turnovers
Game 1 2004 Finals: 10-27, 25 points, 4 rebounds, 4 assists
Game 3 2004 Finals: 4-13, 11 points, 3 rebounds, 4 assists, 4 turnovers
Game 4 2004 Finals: 8-25, 22 points, 0 rebounds, 2 assists
Game 5 2004 Finals: 7-21, 24 points, 3 rebounds, 4 assists
Game 1 2008 Finals: 9-26, 24 points, 3 rebounds, 6 assists, 4 turnovers
Game 4 2008 Finals: 6-19, 17 points, 4 rebounds, 10 assists 
Game 5 2008 Finals: 8-21, 25 points, 7 rebounds, 4 assists, 6 turnovers 
Game 6 2008 Finals: 7-22, 22 points, 3 rebounds, 1 assist, 4 turnovers
Game 4 2009 Finals: 11-31, 32 points, 7 rebounds, 8 assists 
Game 3 2010 Finals: 10-29, 29 points, 7 rebounds, 4 assists  
Game 7 2010 Finals: 6-24, 23 points, 15 rebounds, 2 assists, 4 turnovers  

That game 4 in 2000 is wrong dude.  Game 4 is the game that Kobe went off in OT after Shaq fouled out, and won the game, ON THE ROAD, at the age of 21, to put the Lakers up 3-1, after missing game 3, due to a severly sprained ankle, suffered in game 2.  But I'm sure you remember that. 

And as for your "Gasol should be MVP"  I posted every MVP from 1980 til today in the 2-3 zone thread, your Gasol argument died in that post.  From here on out, you can no longer claim that stuff without looking ridiculous.  I'll re-post it in here if you would like. 

  

Yeah, okay, I should've posted game 5, but it was Kobe's 4th game of the series. Doesn't make any difference though..

And your argument that a top scorer = finals MVP is ridiculous. Just because most Finals MVPs of the past happen to be top scorers as well. You managed to find out that all but 3 Finals MVPs were top scorers (pretty sure that Kareem had a higher scoring average in 1980 than Magic, but Magic won Finals MVP because of his clutch performance). But tell me then, how many of those Finals MVPs shot .405 or under?
It does not matter.  That's the point.  The historical precedence is set in stone now.  30 years (and it could go even further back, but checking that would be exhausting) 30 years AT LEAST, and the leading scorer is there each and every year save a couple.  And those couple were a difference of 2 total points one year, and a guy that was half a board and half an assist away from a triple double for the series.  Period, point blank, end of story.  The leading scorer, no matter how he got there, was MVP basically every year. 

Look at what Reign just put up about 07 and 2010.  That also shows you what you were asking for. 

And further, 28 out of 30 scored more then 20PPG.  The two that didn't, did not have a 20 ppg guy on the winning team, so they had to win. 

I don't know about 1980, I looked at that last night, and I saw Magic as the leading scorer, but I suppose you could be right.  Maybe I didn't pay enough attention on that one.  But still, Magic went 42 15 and 7 as a rook at a different position, on the road, without another superstar, I'ma go out on a limb and say this one was ok even if Kareem was the leading scorer. 

  

 

[xsalvioutlawx]

Some salty *!$ dudes in this thread. Have fun this summer having to hear about the greatest player in the world every single day.

Lmfao....

The time has come where the only person Kobe is being compared to is Jordan. That's simply how good he is.

Haters better stop watching the NBA now until Kobe retires because he will have number 6 by then.

 

[xsalvioutlawx]

Some salty *!$ dudes in this thread. Have fun this summer having to hear about the greatest player in the world every single day.

Lmfao....

The time has come where the only person Kobe is being compared to is Jordan. That's simply how good he is.

Haters better stop watching the NBA now until Kobe retires because he will have number 6 by then.

 

[c5a5d5a5]

oh dear god.

 

[c5a5d5a5]

oh dear god.