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lol
**LA LAKERS THREAD** Sitting on 17! 2023-2024 offseason begins
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by licensed to ball,
- Start date
D_eezus
formerly zombifed nach0
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Signed a 3yr / 15 mil deal with Houston
mans grinded into the league and Stuck around
Tore his Achilles only to Came back and lock himself 15 mil
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I cant make it to Vegas this year but a good turn out in Sac.
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Tsunami Papi or Justice please
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Looking at that list and it's clear the theme this Lakers offseason has been get back with the ex's.
Who got next
Who got next
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They need to stop playin and bring Troy Murphy back
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wow paul milsap still out there? remember that one guy who said paul milsap was gonna change the balance in the west?
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- Oct 28, 2013
- 42,109
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Can't imagine Oubre would come for the minimum.
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Millsap or Ed Davis seem like a cheap options to fill out the big rotation for insurance. The 2/3 spot is a weird place right now.
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Good quick listen to those that care so much about Jeanie’s pockets
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Frank Vogel’s expiring contract is the last question hanging over Lakers
This is quite the situation for Frank Vogel.
The third-year Lakers coach has just been gifted a roster with historic levels of talent. L.A.’s whirlwind roster makeover boasted the arrival of three more Hall of Famers to complement the two already in place in LeBron James and Anthony Davis. The 3-point shooting woes that gave Vogel headaches over the last two years were seemingly addressed with the arrival of five players who shot better than 38 percent from the perimeter last year.
Then again, Vogel still doesn’t have a contract beyond the upcoming season.
Coaching LeBron was already the most pressure-packed job in the NBA. Let alone having to do it as a lame duck. And his job just got a whole lot more challenging.
The Lakers are driven to maximize James’ remaining time with the franchise, and Vogel is suddenly steering a roster that resembles a classic heist flick. James is Danny Ocean, reuniting his old gang — in this case, fellow elder statesmen like Russell Westbrook, Carmelo Anthony, Trevor Ariza, Dwight Howard, Wayne Ellington and Kent Bazemore — for one last job before they sail into the sunset and the credits roll.
Like with a heist, when you build a roster from the ground up with veterans on one-year contracts, you really only get one shot at it. And the fact that Vogel’s contract currently lines up with the mercenaries who joined LeBron for this title run rather than James (signed through 2023) or Davis (through 2025) leads to some obvious uncertainties.
Obviously, the Lakers can put those to rest either by negotiating an extension with Vogel before the season or by putting the question off and winning a second championship in three seasons. But now that the Lakers have moved swiftly to fill out their roster, Vogel’s long-term status is the biggest question left for the franchise.
While Vogel no longer has the specter of Jason Kidd as a potential successor hanging over him, Kidd’s replacement on the bench, David Fizdale, has a deep relationship with James and will quickly be linked to the job should the Lakers struggle.
That’s a degree of speculation that Vogel absolutely does not deserve but is what the Lakers are signing up for in the absence of any clarity on Vogel’s future.
“Frank’s a guy that Kurt (Rambis) and I and the front office really enjoy working with,” Rob Pelinka said during his season-ending exit interview. “(Someone) that really does a great job with all our players, and we see him as a strong part of our future, for sure.”
But in the NBA, extensions speak louder than words.
The third year of Vogel’s contract may require the most nimble coaching performance since he arrived in L.A. With a historic collection of talent comes a historic collection of egos. And while Anthony and Howard have adjusted gracefully to second lives as role players over the last two years, there are still very real questions about how Vogel will make all of these new pieces fit around Westbrook, James and Davis.
Vogel has the credibility, having won a championship just 10 months ago in Orlando, but the trade for Westbrook on draft night signaled a full reset from that magical squad that breezed through the bubble playoffs with the efficiency of a FastPass holder at Disney World.
Only four players remain from the championship team, including Howard — by way of Philadelphia — and 20-year-old Talen Horton-Tucker, who only became a rotation player after the title run and is likely in line for a more prominent role after agreeing to a three-year, $32 million contract on Tuesday.
By any reasonable standard, Vogel earned more job security when he led the Lakers to a title in his first season at the helm, even after he had agreed in 2019 to join the franchise on a three-year contract that was below the industry standard and had been seen as insulting by other candidates for the position. However, Pelinka is known for wanting to maintain maximum flexibility and leverage, and from that vantage point, there may be little obvious incentive to give Vogel guaranteed money into an uncertain future where everything seems to change dramatically from year to year.
And though it has not yet been a year since Vogel hoisted the Larry O’Brien Trophy alongside Pelinka and James, the job now is virtually unrecognizable from the one he so deftly navigated to earn his first ring.
Being the right man for this moment, like he was for that one, will mean finding a way to build a proficient defense despite some uninspiring defensive personnel. The development of Horton-Tucker will be key to the Lakers progression on that side of the ball, but it was clear the Lakers were comfortable shifting their focus from a defensive identity when they were unwilling to outbid Chicago to keep Alex Caruso, sent Kentavious Caldwell-Pope to Washington and essentially swapped out Dennis Schröder for the defensively limited Westbrook.
To date, Vogel’s greatest imprint on the Lakers had been defensively, including coaxing out of his superstar some of the most committed defense James had played in years.
But if the Lakers are to win at a high level this year, it will likely be a byproduct of their offensive efficiency and their ability to outscore high-powered opponents even when they can’t stop them.
With all of that in mind and James just months away from his 37th birthday, the Lakers will enter the season with the same urgent expectations that were present for the storied franchise’s most bold and, ultimately ill-fated, super teams.
It has shades of the 2003-04 season, when an aging and beleaguered Lakers team lost in the Finals to Detroit despite having persuaded Gary Payton and Karl Malone to take steep pay cuts the previous summer. And the last time the Lakers assembled such an ambitious roster, in 2012-13, when the Lakers acquired Steve Nash and Dwight Howard in an effort to squeeze one more title run out of Kobe Bryant, head coach Mike Brown was fired five games into the season.
The fact that those two all-in seasons precipitated significant change, including on the sideline, does not mean the same thing will happen here. But they are good reminders of the stakes when this organization loads up so aggressively and so singularly in pursuit of a title.
If you’re the coach in that situation, you’d like to know you’ll have some security when the dust settles.
As it is, if Vogel’s contract isn’t extended before the start of the season in October, his future could hinge on the health and durability of more than half a dozen players who, despite prodigious God-given talent, are on the back ends of their careers.
For Vogel’s part, he has been unequivocal about his career goals in Los Angeles.
Asked in June about his contract status following the season-ending Game 6 loss to Phoenix, Vogel replied, “I hope to be a Laker for life.”
This is quite the situation for Frank Vogel.
The third-year Lakers coach has just been gifted a roster with historic levels of talent. L.A.’s whirlwind roster makeover boasted the arrival of three more Hall of Famers to complement the two already in place in LeBron James and Anthony Davis. The 3-point shooting woes that gave Vogel headaches over the last two years were seemingly addressed with the arrival of five players who shot better than 38 percent from the perimeter last year.
Then again, Vogel still doesn’t have a contract beyond the upcoming season.
Coaching LeBron was already the most pressure-packed job in the NBA. Let alone having to do it as a lame duck. And his job just got a whole lot more challenging.
The Lakers are driven to maximize James’ remaining time with the franchise, and Vogel is suddenly steering a roster that resembles a classic heist flick. James is Danny Ocean, reuniting his old gang — in this case, fellow elder statesmen like Russell Westbrook, Carmelo Anthony, Trevor Ariza, Dwight Howard, Wayne Ellington and Kent Bazemore — for one last job before they sail into the sunset and the credits roll.
Like with a heist, when you build a roster from the ground up with veterans on one-year contracts, you really only get one shot at it. And the fact that Vogel’s contract currently lines up with the mercenaries who joined LeBron for this title run rather than James (signed through 2023) or Davis (through 2025) leads to some obvious uncertainties.
Obviously, the Lakers can put those to rest either by negotiating an extension with Vogel before the season or by putting the question off and winning a second championship in three seasons. But now that the Lakers have moved swiftly to fill out their roster, Vogel’s long-term status is the biggest question left for the franchise.
While Vogel no longer has the specter of Jason Kidd as a potential successor hanging over him, Kidd’s replacement on the bench, David Fizdale, has a deep relationship with James and will quickly be linked to the job should the Lakers struggle.
That’s a degree of speculation that Vogel absolutely does not deserve but is what the Lakers are signing up for in the absence of any clarity on Vogel’s future.
“Frank’s a guy that Kurt (Rambis) and I and the front office really enjoy working with,” Rob Pelinka said during his season-ending exit interview. “(Someone) that really does a great job with all our players, and we see him as a strong part of our future, for sure.”
But in the NBA, extensions speak louder than words.
The third year of Vogel’s contract may require the most nimble coaching performance since he arrived in L.A. With a historic collection of talent comes a historic collection of egos. And while Anthony and Howard have adjusted gracefully to second lives as role players over the last two years, there are still very real questions about how Vogel will make all of these new pieces fit around Westbrook, James and Davis.
Vogel has the credibility, having won a championship just 10 months ago in Orlando, but the trade for Westbrook on draft night signaled a full reset from that magical squad that breezed through the bubble playoffs with the efficiency of a FastPass holder at Disney World.
Only four players remain from the championship team, including Howard — by way of Philadelphia — and 20-year-old Talen Horton-Tucker, who only became a rotation player after the title run and is likely in line for a more prominent role after agreeing to a three-year, $32 million contract on Tuesday.
By any reasonable standard, Vogel earned more job security when he led the Lakers to a title in his first season at the helm, even after he had agreed in 2019 to join the franchise on a three-year contract that was below the industry standard and had been seen as insulting by other candidates for the position. However, Pelinka is known for wanting to maintain maximum flexibility and leverage, and from that vantage point, there may be little obvious incentive to give Vogel guaranteed money into an uncertain future where everything seems to change dramatically from year to year.
And though it has not yet been a year since Vogel hoisted the Larry O’Brien Trophy alongside Pelinka and James, the job now is virtually unrecognizable from the one he so deftly navigated to earn his first ring.
Being the right man for this moment, like he was for that one, will mean finding a way to build a proficient defense despite some uninspiring defensive personnel. The development of Horton-Tucker will be key to the Lakers progression on that side of the ball, but it was clear the Lakers were comfortable shifting their focus from a defensive identity when they were unwilling to outbid Chicago to keep Alex Caruso, sent Kentavious Caldwell-Pope to Washington and essentially swapped out Dennis Schröder for the defensively limited Westbrook.
To date, Vogel’s greatest imprint on the Lakers had been defensively, including coaxing out of his superstar some of the most committed defense James had played in years.
But if the Lakers are to win at a high level this year, it will likely be a byproduct of their offensive efficiency and their ability to outscore high-powered opponents even when they can’t stop them.
With all of that in mind and James just months away from his 37th birthday, the Lakers will enter the season with the same urgent expectations that were present for the storied franchise’s most bold and, ultimately ill-fated, super teams.
It has shades of the 2003-04 season, when an aging and beleaguered Lakers team lost in the Finals to Detroit despite having persuaded Gary Payton and Karl Malone to take steep pay cuts the previous summer. And the last time the Lakers assembled such an ambitious roster, in 2012-13, when the Lakers acquired Steve Nash and Dwight Howard in an effort to squeeze one more title run out of Kobe Bryant, head coach Mike Brown was fired five games into the season.
The fact that those two all-in seasons precipitated significant change, including on the sideline, does not mean the same thing will happen here. But they are good reminders of the stakes when this organization loads up so aggressively and so singularly in pursuit of a title.
If you’re the coach in that situation, you’d like to know you’ll have some security when the dust settles.
As it is, if Vogel’s contract isn’t extended before the start of the season in October, his future could hinge on the health and durability of more than half a dozen players who, despite prodigious God-given talent, are on the back ends of their careers.
For Vogel’s part, he has been unequivocal about his career goals in Los Angeles.
Asked in June about his contract status following the season-ending Game 6 loss to Phoenix, Vogel replied, “I hope to be a Laker for life.”
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aside from the roster shakeup
we lost j. kidd and lionel hollins
but brought in fizdale ...any word on who else ?
we lost j. kidd and lionel hollins
but brought in fizdale ...any word on who else ?
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They promoted Penberthy to the front of the bench.
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I really wonder what will happen with Dennis.
At first it was fun and games...but man this really gotta be wearing on his mental state.
At first it was fun and games...but man this really gotta be wearing on his mental state.
MVP
Supporter
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I guess starting Marc and Ellington works spacing wise. Going to put pressure on Russ to give more effort than usual on defense though.
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I think I would start Bazemore at SG. Gasol and whoever is the other forward can alternate depending on match ups.
MVP
Supporter
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- Feb 28, 2008
Don't envy Vogel at all trying to divy minutes up between him/Monk/THT/Wayne
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- Jan 18, 2006
Gonna be a LONG season of us talking rotations....
