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Finally
**LA LAKERS THREAD** Sitting on 17! 2023-2024 offseason begins
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by licensed to ball,
- Start date
Finally
Boy you nailed this one......
So the franchise DID, in fact, leak that the coach was being fired, without telling him, or Bron/AD etc, and let it sit overnight.
That's the ownership/front office we got workin for us.
They fired the fallguy that had nothing to do with this season. (Spare me the 5-10% nonsense) I'm sure the next coach will can't wait to take this job......
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Glad to see the guys end the season all smiles.
Especially monk & reaves. Big for them going into next season.
As much as I hated NUNN, I think he can be a key contributor for us next season. ****, coming off a null season he SHOULD be balling for his LIFE next year.
I would love to bring back dwight, he’s still got alot left In the tank when he gets minutes. Always can use his size & energy.
I liked him but Melo gotta go, he can’t move his feet fast enough on defense and leaves everyone out of position & scrambling. He’s detrimental to our team defense unfortunately. It was fun while it lasted, wish him luck going forward.
I still believe in a LJ + AD core. Again, if we can get Buddy Heild, pair him with Nunn, Monk and Reaves, along with Wenyan and Stanley. Thats a solid foundation to build on fellas.
I bet we can get Sacramento to flirt with a Russ trade.
Especially monk & reaves. Big for them going into next season.
As much as I hated NUNN, I think he can be a key contributor for us next season. ****, coming off a null season he SHOULD be balling for his LIFE next year.
I would love to bring back dwight, he’s still got alot left In the tank when he gets minutes. Always can use his size & energy.
I liked him but Melo gotta go, he can’t move his feet fast enough on defense and leaves everyone out of position & scrambling. He’s detrimental to our team defense unfortunately. It was fun while it lasted, wish him luck going forward.
I still believe in a LJ + AD core. Again, if we can get Buddy Heild, pair him with Nunn, Monk and Reaves, along with Wenyan and Stanley. Thats a solid foundation to build on fellas.
I bet we can get Sacramento to flirt with a Russ trade.
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Shouts out to Frank Vogel. He is forever cemented in laker history during the 19-20 season where he essentially coached damn near perfectly.
Happy for change at same time as roster changes won’t be to his strength anyways.
Rambis 2022-23 era begins
Happy for change at same time as roster changes won’t be to his strength anyways.
Rambis 2022-23 era begins
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If we leaked it we are trash.
If wojo guessed what everyone already knew...
I mean we been talking about Vogel being fired since the all star break...
Him being fired was no surprise.
Wojo garbage for that tweet but we will never know if we gave him that information or if it was a very smart guess knowing what we already knew....
If wojo guessed what everyone already knew...
I mean we been talking about Vogel being fired since the all star break...
Him being fired was no surprise.
Wojo garbage for that tweet but we will never know if we gave him that information or if it was a very smart guess knowing what we already knew....
#Necessary
Rob's day will hopefully be next year when he's run out of people to blame. Then maybe we can start to be an actual franchise again. So interesting listening to Bron say "It's not my job" and follow up with "yea, I've been thinking about who we can bring in to help" That's not conflicting at all.
Doc, or Juwan, or Nurse, or Phil will fix it.....ya know, if we get about half a dozen other players on the roster of course.
darthska
Staff member
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Lebby when asked about Russy: "To have a guy that's reliable and can put on a uniform every single night, that's something I respect."
So now I'm counting down to when some media pundit interprets that as "Lebron takes a shot at AD."
-foe
So now I'm counting down to when some media pundit interprets that as "Lebron takes a shot at AD."
-foe
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The worst part is if they fix the roster and the next guy does well, Rob gonna be sitting there like I told you so when he is the one the failed Frank to being with.
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Wonder how many coaches will be cool with Kurt Rambis in their coaches meetings smh
darthska
Staff member
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We should honestly just turn right back around and give Vogel a lifetime contract, because of that championship. There's no such thing as bad coaches or good coaches, only championship coaches*. And bah gawd, that's what he is. #FOREVER!
*And coaches who don't have championships but it's only because of injuries.
-foe
*And coaches who don't have championships but it's only because of injuries.
-foe
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Rob live on ESPN.
Wonder what he was doin in there anyways.
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Luke was not a good coach...we saw that after he left us as well.
Byron was not a good coach either.
Mike brown? Lol
Vogel and maybe D'antoni are the only ones where you look back and say damn...maybe they got it wrong firing them.
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Dave pulled no punches with that question..and Rob dodged it...smh
Dave asked why fire Vogel when he didn't put the roster together and he can't control injuries.
Rob said this isn't a day for finger pointing and they felt it was time for a new leader....smh
Dave asked why fire Vogel when he didn't put the roster together and he can't control injuries.
Rob said this isn't a day for finger pointing and they felt it was time for a new leader....smh
darthska
Staff member
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In my experience, the one who says "We don't need to point fingers" is the one everybody's pointing a finger at, and they feel it.
-foe
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Glad they at least got Rob on the hot seat asking him the real questions.
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Woj wondering if the Lakers can pay for the new assistant coaches that come in.
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Wojo talking to talk. He don't know.
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LOL.
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We are in great hands...smh
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Lakers offseason primer: Finding a coach who fits, Russell Westbrook’s future, learning from mistakes and more
The Lakers couldn’t even enjoy the final bright spot of their dismal season without things turning chaotic and embarrassing.
Moments after their remarkable, 146-141 comeback win in overtime over the Denver Nuggets on Sunday — while players and coaches were still on the floor celebrating — news broke that head coach Frank Vogel was going to be fired.
The ESPN report led to an uncomfortable postgame news conference with Vogel, who said of his communication with the Lakers’ front office, “I haven’t been told ****. I’m going to enjoy tonight’s game, celebrate what these young guys did in terms of scratching and clawing and getting back in this game and getting a W. We’ll deal with tomorrow, tomorrow.”
The Lakers officially declined to comment. But it was clear based on the reactions from players, coaches and staffers from both the Lakers and Nuggets in the hallway outside of the respective locker rooms that the situation was viewed as both shocking and cold. The scene was surreal.
Vogel, who acknowledged postgame he was aware of the report, was one of the last members of the Lakers’ traveling party to leave the locker room after initially addressing the media fewer than 20 minutes after the report.
Vogel’s firing, which the team officially announced Monday, starts an offseason full of questions for the Lakers following their disappointing 33-49 season and missing the Play-In Tournament. Here are five of the biggest they need to answer.
What are they looking for in their next coach?
For months, the expectation in league circles was that it was a matter of when, not if, the Lakers moved on from Vogel.
While he certainly has his shortcomings, the Lakers’ two biggest hurdles over the past two seasons have been the health of LeBron James and Anthony Davis, and the calamitous ripple effects of the Russell Westbrook trade. Neither issue is Vogel’s fault, and neither problem will be solved by a new voice in the locker room.
Moving forward, the Lakers need to ask themselves what, exactly, are they looking for from their next head coach?
Do they want someone with gravitas, who commands the respect of James and Davis? Someone who’s objectively considered one of the best coaches in the league? Are they going to diverge from Vogel’s strengths and favor offense over defense? A pushover who will abide by the front office’s preferences? A coach with more modern principles? Do they need ties to the franchise, as has often been the case? How much are they willing to spend? Top dollar?
It’s reasonable to argue a different coach could have gotten more out of this season’s group — even with all of the injuries. The Lakers’ rotation and lineups were inconsistent, and the offense stagnated far too often. DeAndre Jordan, Avery Bradley, Rajon Rondo and Trevor Ariza had too prominent of roles for their level of production. Eventually, players began tuning Vogel out.
But Vogel was still a championship coach who enjoyed several successful playoff runs in Indiana earlier in the decade. It’s possible the Lakers find an upgrade, but it’s not a guarantee. The Lakers’ opening likely will be the top job on the market, and they need to think deeply about the culture and playing style they want their next coach to deploy.
What do they do with Westbrook?
This isn’t the most pressing matter — the Lakers need a new head coach before free agency — but this is arguably the biggest question of the franchise’s offseason. It’s difficult to envision a scenario in which Westbrook plays another season with the Lakers. The partnership was a disaster from the beginning — and both sides seemingly want to move on.
Westbrook never lived up to his $44 million contract or his designation as the Lakers’ third star. He didn’t carry the team when Davis and/or James were out, which was one of the primary reasons the Lakers claimed they acquired him. The Lakers were 20-37 in games Westbrook played with one or none of James and Davis available.
Next season, Westbrook has a $47 million player option. While playing in Los Angeles was clearly a miserable experience for him, he isn’t going to turn that money down. Thus, the Lakers technically have four options with Westbrook: They can trade him, waive and stretch him, buy him out or stand pat and run it back.
Trading him is obviously the most ideal option, as it could potentially improve the roster. The Lakers could look to deal Westbrook for a singular massive contract (think Houston’s John Wall or Charlotte’s Gordon Hayward) or several contracts (think the New York Knicks or Indiana Pacers). Los Angeles should have a few theoretical options.
Most teams will demand draft compensation, which could be a deal-breaker for the Lakers, much as it was at the 2022 trade deadline. The cost ultimately might be a first-round pick. Depending on an organization’s motives and cap sheet, Westbrook could hold reasonable value as a $47 million expiring contract. But the Lakers would have to be willing to take longer-term money back, and they have to be careful not to compound their mistakes.
Waiving and stretching Westbrook is probably too costly, considering he’d be on the books for three more seasons. Buying him out is the second-best outcome but unlikely barring an unforeseen free agency suitor that could help Westbrook recoup his loss in salary from the buyout. And running it back with Westbrook is nonsensical; there is little to no evidence that Westbrook will ever change his game or fit next to James.
The most likely outcome this summer is that the Lakers trade Westbrook. His future has the greatest impact on next season’s roster.
Why were the Lakers subpar with James and Davis sharing the floor this season?
Over the past three seasons, the thinking went that the combination of James, Davis and even an average trio of role players would be enough to compete with just about any other lineup in the league. James and Davis are top-10 players — Davis’ status has probably dipped to top 15 after this season — and that’s historically a recipe for contention.
In 2019-20, it worked as the Lakers won the championship. In 2020-21, the Lakers started 21-6 before Davis went down. They made the playoffs and led the Suns 2-1 in the first round before Davis was injured again. They looked the part of a contender when healthy.
But this season, that wasn’t the case. The Lakers weren’t good — even with James and Davis on the floor. Westbrook’s presence made things worse, but even without him, the pairing of James and Davis was subpar.
With James and Davis on the floor, the Lakers had a minus-2.5 net differential, per Cleaning The Glass. With James and Davis on the floor and Westbrook off the floor, the Lakers’ net differential improved to minus-1.6. That’s in stark contrast to previous seasons when James and Davis posted double-digit positive net differentials and ratings together.
Davis, who has been vocal about the what-if nature of the past two seasons and his confidence in the team when healthy, admitted they’re going to have to re-evaluate why they continued to struggle even when healthy this season.
“I think us two can,” Davis said. “We’ve shown that we can. … Just figuring out what’s best for the team to get back to championship mentality that we had our first year. So, that would be a very interesting conversation just from the standpoint of what changed. I mean, injuries, but even when we were healthy, I don’t think we were able to reach our full potential — for whatever reason.
“So, I think we want to figure it out and just get back to that championship pedigree that us as players know we’re capable of.”
As long as James and Davis are healthy, the Lakers remain a playoff team, if not a fringe contender (depending on the new coach and the rest of the offseason moves). But there are no assurances either player is healthy moving forward. They have combined to miss 131 games over the past two seasons.
The Lakers don’t have an alternative option — trading Davis is foolish for multiple reasons, including that his trade value is at an all-time low. Yet, there are many teams that would love to have the problem of entrusting their faith in the James-Davis tandem. But the two may no longer be enough to compensate for a limited L.A. supporting cast, like the one they had this season.
What will the supporting cast look like?
The Lakers should look back to 2019-20 and 2020-21 for the blueprint of the type of role players who work around James and Davis.
They need to find better two-way talent on the perimeter. Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, Alex Caruso, Kyle Kuzma and Danny Green were far better than the Lakers’ perimeter options this season. The Lakers should use their $6.3 taxpayer midlevel exception on the best wing available.
Talen Horton-Tucker, Austin Reaves, Kendrick Nunn and Stanley Johnson all should be on next season’s roster, meaning the Lakers need to prioritize more size, length and shooting with the rest of their perimeter options.
One of the most interesting developments of the season was Davis finally embracing playing center and James shifting up to center in small-ball lineups that scorched opponents (particularly bench units). Davis and James were the Lakers’ two best centers by a wide margin.
“I think we came in with the intention of me playing the five for a lot of this season, which I believe I did in games that I did play,” Davis said. “And just going to small ball with ‘Bron and ‘Melo in that second unit was very effective for us. … That might be something that we look at next year since it was successful for us.”
The Lakers have limited resources to improve the roster. But they need to prioritize youth, athleticism, length, shooting and defense as best as they realistically can with their remaining roster spots. It’s easier said than done, obviously.
Ideally, they nab a starting-level wing for the taxpayer midlevel exception and fill out the roster with cheaper options at center and point guard (which somewhat overlap with James’ and Davis’ offensive responsibilities).
Has the organization learned from its recent mistakes?
If the Lakers walk away from this season solely blaming the disappointing results on their injuries and Vogel, they’ll fail to diagnose all that is ailing them.
There was plenty that was out of the Lakers’ control this season. But there was plenty that was in their control — and many of those factors went awry.
The Westbrook trade was a colossal mistake. So, too, was not valuing Caruso at his market value. And heavily investing in Horton-Tucker over Caruso — and then failing to develop and carve out a proper role for him (somewhat on Vogel). The Lakers prioritized experience and accolades over skill set and versatility with their roster construction. Aside from Malik Monk and Anthony, the rest of their veteran minimum contracts were misses. They made the all-in, win-now move of trading for Westbrook only to subsequently look to cut costs in free agency and during the season. They should’ve made a move at the 2022 trade deadline — including admitting their mistake and doing just about whatever it took to trade Westbrook.
The Lakers undoubtedly have endured two snakebitten seasons. It’s possible that with better health, they would have won back-to-back championships, or at least had a more respectable playoff run last season.
But they need to learn from their mistakes — or risk repeating them.
“I think the truth starts with the individual,” Anthony said. “Each individual has to look themselves in the mirror and say, ‘What happened?’ What they could’ve done better. What could we have done better? … I think slowly, you’ll get to the answer. And everybody will probably have their different variation of what that answer is.
“You have to face yourself first. Then everybody just needs to be held accountable. We were all a part of this. It wasn’t just the coaches. It wasn’t just the players. We all were a part of this. And I think as a whole, we should all feel and take accountability for things not going our way.”
The Lakers couldn’t even enjoy the final bright spot of their dismal season without things turning chaotic and embarrassing.
Moments after their remarkable, 146-141 comeback win in overtime over the Denver Nuggets on Sunday — while players and coaches were still on the floor celebrating — news broke that head coach Frank Vogel was going to be fired.
The ESPN report led to an uncomfortable postgame news conference with Vogel, who said of his communication with the Lakers’ front office, “I haven’t been told ****. I’m going to enjoy tonight’s game, celebrate what these young guys did in terms of scratching and clawing and getting back in this game and getting a W. We’ll deal with tomorrow, tomorrow.”
The Lakers officially declined to comment. But it was clear based on the reactions from players, coaches and staffers from both the Lakers and Nuggets in the hallway outside of the respective locker rooms that the situation was viewed as both shocking and cold. The scene was surreal.
Vogel, who acknowledged postgame he was aware of the report, was one of the last members of the Lakers’ traveling party to leave the locker room after initially addressing the media fewer than 20 minutes after the report.
Vogel’s firing, which the team officially announced Monday, starts an offseason full of questions for the Lakers following their disappointing 33-49 season and missing the Play-In Tournament. Here are five of the biggest they need to answer.
What are they looking for in their next coach?
For months, the expectation in league circles was that it was a matter of when, not if, the Lakers moved on from Vogel.
While he certainly has his shortcomings, the Lakers’ two biggest hurdles over the past two seasons have been the health of LeBron James and Anthony Davis, and the calamitous ripple effects of the Russell Westbrook trade. Neither issue is Vogel’s fault, and neither problem will be solved by a new voice in the locker room.
Moving forward, the Lakers need to ask themselves what, exactly, are they looking for from their next head coach?
Do they want someone with gravitas, who commands the respect of James and Davis? Someone who’s objectively considered one of the best coaches in the league? Are they going to diverge from Vogel’s strengths and favor offense over defense? A pushover who will abide by the front office’s preferences? A coach with more modern principles? Do they need ties to the franchise, as has often been the case? How much are they willing to spend? Top dollar?
It’s reasonable to argue a different coach could have gotten more out of this season’s group — even with all of the injuries. The Lakers’ rotation and lineups were inconsistent, and the offense stagnated far too often. DeAndre Jordan, Avery Bradley, Rajon Rondo and Trevor Ariza had too prominent of roles for their level of production. Eventually, players began tuning Vogel out.
But Vogel was still a championship coach who enjoyed several successful playoff runs in Indiana earlier in the decade. It’s possible the Lakers find an upgrade, but it’s not a guarantee. The Lakers’ opening likely will be the top job on the market, and they need to think deeply about the culture and playing style they want their next coach to deploy.
What do they do with Westbrook?
This isn’t the most pressing matter — the Lakers need a new head coach before free agency — but this is arguably the biggest question of the franchise’s offseason. It’s difficult to envision a scenario in which Westbrook plays another season with the Lakers. The partnership was a disaster from the beginning — and both sides seemingly want to move on.
Westbrook never lived up to his $44 million contract or his designation as the Lakers’ third star. He didn’t carry the team when Davis and/or James were out, which was one of the primary reasons the Lakers claimed they acquired him. The Lakers were 20-37 in games Westbrook played with one or none of James and Davis available.
Next season, Westbrook has a $47 million player option. While playing in Los Angeles was clearly a miserable experience for him, he isn’t going to turn that money down. Thus, the Lakers technically have four options with Westbrook: They can trade him, waive and stretch him, buy him out or stand pat and run it back.
Trading him is obviously the most ideal option, as it could potentially improve the roster. The Lakers could look to deal Westbrook for a singular massive contract (think Houston’s John Wall or Charlotte’s Gordon Hayward) or several contracts (think the New York Knicks or Indiana Pacers). Los Angeles should have a few theoretical options.
Most teams will demand draft compensation, which could be a deal-breaker for the Lakers, much as it was at the 2022 trade deadline. The cost ultimately might be a first-round pick. Depending on an organization’s motives and cap sheet, Westbrook could hold reasonable value as a $47 million expiring contract. But the Lakers would have to be willing to take longer-term money back, and they have to be careful not to compound their mistakes.
Waiving and stretching Westbrook is probably too costly, considering he’d be on the books for three more seasons. Buying him out is the second-best outcome but unlikely barring an unforeseen free agency suitor that could help Westbrook recoup his loss in salary from the buyout. And running it back with Westbrook is nonsensical; there is little to no evidence that Westbrook will ever change his game or fit next to James.
The most likely outcome this summer is that the Lakers trade Westbrook. His future has the greatest impact on next season’s roster.
Why were the Lakers subpar with James and Davis sharing the floor this season?
Over the past three seasons, the thinking went that the combination of James, Davis and even an average trio of role players would be enough to compete with just about any other lineup in the league. James and Davis are top-10 players — Davis’ status has probably dipped to top 15 after this season — and that’s historically a recipe for contention.
In 2019-20, it worked as the Lakers won the championship. In 2020-21, the Lakers started 21-6 before Davis went down. They made the playoffs and led the Suns 2-1 in the first round before Davis was injured again. They looked the part of a contender when healthy.
But this season, that wasn’t the case. The Lakers weren’t good — even with James and Davis on the floor. Westbrook’s presence made things worse, but even without him, the pairing of James and Davis was subpar.
With James and Davis on the floor, the Lakers had a minus-2.5 net differential, per Cleaning The Glass. With James and Davis on the floor and Westbrook off the floor, the Lakers’ net differential improved to minus-1.6. That’s in stark contrast to previous seasons when James and Davis posted double-digit positive net differentials and ratings together.
Davis, who has been vocal about the what-if nature of the past two seasons and his confidence in the team when healthy, admitted they’re going to have to re-evaluate why they continued to struggle even when healthy this season.
“I think us two can,” Davis said. “We’ve shown that we can. … Just figuring out what’s best for the team to get back to championship mentality that we had our first year. So, that would be a very interesting conversation just from the standpoint of what changed. I mean, injuries, but even when we were healthy, I don’t think we were able to reach our full potential — for whatever reason.
“So, I think we want to figure it out and just get back to that championship pedigree that us as players know we’re capable of.”
As long as James and Davis are healthy, the Lakers remain a playoff team, if not a fringe contender (depending on the new coach and the rest of the offseason moves). But there are no assurances either player is healthy moving forward. They have combined to miss 131 games over the past two seasons.
The Lakers don’t have an alternative option — trading Davis is foolish for multiple reasons, including that his trade value is at an all-time low. Yet, there are many teams that would love to have the problem of entrusting their faith in the James-Davis tandem. But the two may no longer be enough to compensate for a limited L.A. supporting cast, like the one they had this season.
What will the supporting cast look like?
The Lakers should look back to 2019-20 and 2020-21 for the blueprint of the type of role players who work around James and Davis.
They need to find better two-way talent on the perimeter. Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, Alex Caruso, Kyle Kuzma and Danny Green were far better than the Lakers’ perimeter options this season. The Lakers should use their $6.3 taxpayer midlevel exception on the best wing available.
Talen Horton-Tucker, Austin Reaves, Kendrick Nunn and Stanley Johnson all should be on next season’s roster, meaning the Lakers need to prioritize more size, length and shooting with the rest of their perimeter options.
One of the most interesting developments of the season was Davis finally embracing playing center and James shifting up to center in small-ball lineups that scorched opponents (particularly bench units). Davis and James were the Lakers’ two best centers by a wide margin.
“I think we came in with the intention of me playing the five for a lot of this season, which I believe I did in games that I did play,” Davis said. “And just going to small ball with ‘Bron and ‘Melo in that second unit was very effective for us. … That might be something that we look at next year since it was successful for us.”
The Lakers have limited resources to improve the roster. But they need to prioritize youth, athleticism, length, shooting and defense as best as they realistically can with their remaining roster spots. It’s easier said than done, obviously.
Ideally, they nab a starting-level wing for the taxpayer midlevel exception and fill out the roster with cheaper options at center and point guard (which somewhat overlap with James’ and Davis’ offensive responsibilities).
Has the organization learned from its recent mistakes?
If the Lakers walk away from this season solely blaming the disappointing results on their injuries and Vogel, they’ll fail to diagnose all that is ailing them.
There was plenty that was out of the Lakers’ control this season. But there was plenty that was in their control — and many of those factors went awry.
The Westbrook trade was a colossal mistake. So, too, was not valuing Caruso at his market value. And heavily investing in Horton-Tucker over Caruso — and then failing to develop and carve out a proper role for him (somewhat on Vogel). The Lakers prioritized experience and accolades over skill set and versatility with their roster construction. Aside from Malik Monk and Anthony, the rest of their veteran minimum contracts were misses. They made the all-in, win-now move of trading for Westbrook only to subsequently look to cut costs in free agency and during the season. They should’ve made a move at the 2022 trade deadline — including admitting their mistake and doing just about whatever it took to trade Westbrook.
The Lakers undoubtedly have endured two snakebitten seasons. It’s possible that with better health, they would have won back-to-back championships, or at least had a more respectable playoff run last season.
But they need to learn from their mistakes — or risk repeating them.
“I think the truth starts with the individual,” Anthony said. “Each individual has to look themselves in the mirror and say, ‘What happened?’ What they could’ve done better. What could we have done better? … I think slowly, you’ll get to the answer. And everybody will probably have their different variation of what that answer is.
“You have to face yourself first. Then everybody just needs to be held accountable. We were all a part of this. It wasn’t just the coaches. It wasn’t just the players. We all were a part of this. And I think as a whole, we should all feel and take accountability for things not going our way.”
darthska
Staff member
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Honestly Pelinka's interview is exactly why I don't care about sports interviews even a little. Wouldn't hurt my feelings at all if we just did away with them, completely. Before the game, after the game, preseason, during the game, let's just stop.
-foe
-foe
