**LA LAKERS THREAD** Sitting on 17! 2023-2024 offseason begins

[shuges]

1. Yep, I already gave many examples in my initial post of what good luck/fortune looks like. Of the 16 teams to start the playoffs, some like the Mavs have started with misfortune. As you proceed through the playoffs, each matchup is determined by alllllll the things you named PLUS chance.

C CP1708 has already pointed out that there's no major difference between the empty suits selected to run a team. And YOU have already said "that team is NOT the only team with talent & a well constructed roster" as a point to show how coaching makes a difference.

I'm more like tupac003 where I feel it's a bit of both. And that the final determining factor is good fortune.

2. That's my point. You can't gameplan for your star player getting Covid right before an elimination game. Hence, it being a lucky break or good fortune or happenstance or whatever word you want to use for the TWolves.

I'd say Lue is a better coach than Finch. But all the coaching in the world can't overcome not having Kawhii or PG13 when you're playing on the road against a talented squad like Minny.

If Shaq's fat *** was injured and Kobe caught Covid before game 1 of the Finals, I don't care how good PJ is, he likely would have lost against whoever he was playing.

 

[darthska]

the difference between Jerry Sloan and Luke Walton.

Karl Malone and John Stockton.

Bruh.
35-47: Luke, no Lebby
37-45: Luke, Lebby
52-19, champs: Vogel, Lebby, AD.

Now, you are going to jump alllll over "ANTHONY DAVIS! That wasn't Vogel!!! It was AD!!"

Hold on there, sport. I agree it wasn't Vogel, as in 'The one reason for the turnaround was Vogel.' I agree: he wasn't THE reason. He wasn't even a MAJOR reason.

But... if players are the only thing that matters, how did getting... LEBRON JAMES... improve us by... two... whole... games?

I know: injuries. Lebron only played 55 games. We were making a push, but... injuries.



-foe

 

[darthska]

I feel it's a bit of both. And that the final determining factor is good fortune.

I agree with your entire post except those last 7 words here, but again, I'm taking this from a 'What can I control?' approach. I don't like leaving the last straw up to luck or destiny or the stars or thots & pears or anything like that. Kobe said something along the lines of feeling like every time he was working out, he was working against someone else out there also working out to prepare to face him. He had it in his mind that during that workout, that other person was not going to outwork him. He said he would push harder because he don't know how hard the other person is working and preparing.

I prefer that being the final determination, not, "Alright boys, all of us have prepared super good, both teams. I guess whoever doesn't get Covid will win the championship. So let's go out there and... not get covid I guess. Vaxx on 3..."

-foe

 

[CP1708]

Bruh.
35-47: Luke, no Lebby
37-45: Luke, Lebby
52-19, champs: Vogel, Lebby, AD.

Now, you are going to jump alllll over "ANTHONY DAVIS! That wasn't Vogel!!! It was AD!!"

Hold on there, sport. I agree it wasn't Vogel, as in 'The one reason for the turnaround was Vogel.' I agree: he wasn't THE reason. He wasn't even a MALE reason.

But... if players are the only thing that matters, how did getting... LEBRON JAMES... improve us by... two... whole... games?

I know: injuries. Lebron only played 55 games. We were making a push, but... injuries.



-foe

Sorry fam, I called it before it happened, 4 years ago.

I said Luke was gonna get fired BEFORE the roster was improved around Bron and whoever the next coach was would "miraculously" have a better record with the new roster.

AD added
Vogel hired

Title.

"Luke is trash, he never coulda done that!!!!!"

Cuz ya know, Vogel was crushin it in Orlando as you have pointed out.

Meanwhile, Luke in GS record with KD/Steph/Klay was.....?

Coincidences I'm sure.

 

[CP1708]

I don't care how good PJ is, he likely would have lost against whoever he was playing.

Phil lost to Doc Rivers (ironically) with Bynum and Ariza not fully available in 2008.

Phil also lost the 2 years MJ wasn't MJ.
And lost to MDA back to back years Kobe was ridin solo. Pau came in (with Kobe) 3 straight Finals.

Erik Spolestra was a video guy, had D Wade for 2 years, mid level team.
Add Bron/Bosh, many wanted Spo fired/replaced, went to FOUR STRAIGHT FINALS, Bron leaves, Bosh sick, Spo doesn't even make playoffs.

Same coach, completely different roster constructions.

Kerr wins titles as first time HC,, Five straight Finals, KD leaves, Klay hurt, Kerr misses playoffs completely.

I guess I'm twisting actual facts or something. *Shrugs*

 

[darthska]

Sorry fam, I called it before it happened, 4 years ago.

I said Luke was gonna get fired BEFORE the roster was improved around Bron and whoever the next coach was would "miraculously" have a better record with the new roster.

AD added
Vogel hired

Title.

"Luke is trash, he never coulda done that!!!!!"

Cuz ya know, Vogel was crushin it in Orlando as you have pointed out.

Meanwhile, Luke in GS record with KD/Steph/Klay was.....?

Coincidences I'm sure.

How many championships did Kobe & Jordan win in their non-Phil years? Issa lotta years. How many rings?

"Coincidence."

-foe

 

[darthska]

I guess I'm twisting actual facts or something.

You are, unironically. You are placing your ENTIRE dataset on dismantling the effect of a coach, ignoring the symbio...

... nevermind. Keep the 1 tsp of baking soda out of your cake batter because of how insignificant it seems. Thankfully you don't actually run a team.

-foe

 

[shuges]

I agree with your entire post except those last 7 words here, but again, I'm taking this from a 'What can I control?' approach. I don't like leaving the last straw up to luck or destiny or the stars or thots & pears or anything like that. Kobe said something along the lines of feeling like every time he was working out, he was working against someone else out there also working out to prepare to face him. He had it in his mind that during that workout, that other person was not going to outwork him. He said he would push harder because he don't know how hard the other person is working and preparing.

I prefer that being the final determination, not, "Alright boys, all of us have prepared super good, both teams. I guess whoever doesn't get Covid will win the championship. So let's go out there and... not get covid I guess. Vaxx on 3..."

-foe

This is why I amended my statement and changed it from just calling it luck to calling it chance, happenstance, good fortune, etc. I didn't want to imply that a team wins because they were simply "lucky". That's not the case.

As I said before, you need ALL the things you listed (scouting, coaching, management) PLUS a fair measure of good fortune/chance/luck.

LAL won the title in 2000 against the Pacers. In game 78 of that season, Duncan tore his meniscus I believe and didn't play again that season. Spurs (1999 champs) got eliminated in the 1st round by Phx and LAL kicks off their last dynasty. Misfortune for the Spurs opened the door for the Lake Show. Especially since SAS and LAL were in the same playoff bracket. LAL faced the Suns instead of the defending champion Spurs who had beaten LAL 3 - 1 in that regular season.

Pacers also beat the Knicks who were in the 99 Finals. How would a LAL squad who had never won it all before with that roster have done against the battle-tested Knicks? Obviously, we'll never know.

So much of this **** - life in general really - is determined by factors completely out of your control, no matter how hard we try to prep for it. Wearing your lucky shirt before the game ain't it.

At the end of the day, we're not too far apart with our views. We both agree on the main points which is that the Lakers need to fix this ****.

 

[shuges]

Phil lost to Doc Rivers (ironically) with Bynum and Ariza not fully available in 2008.

Phil also lost the 2 years MJ wasn't MJ.
And lost to MDA back to back years Kobe was ridin solo. Pau came in (with Kobe) 3 straight Finals.

Erik Spolestra was a video guy, had D Wade for 2 years, mid level team.
Add Bron/Bosh, many wanted Spo fired/replaced, went to FOUR STRAIGHT FINALS, Bron leaves, Bosh sick, Spo doesn't even make playoffs.

Same coach, completely different roster constructions.

Kerr wins titles as first time HC,, Five straight Finals, KD leaves, Klay hurt, Kerr misses playoffs completely.

I guess I'm twisting actual facts or something. *Shrugs*

Yep, a lot of this falls in the "good/bad fortune" category.

Injuries and/or acquiring/losing good players.

 

[tay1]

Read a rumor we can deal Westbrook for Randle, Kemba and Burks. Would y’all do it?

 

[moonman818]

Nah we need shooters

 

[lovehateself]

Read a rumor we can deal Westbrook for Randle, Kemba and Burks. Would y’all do it?

No

 

[DLF]

CP you should consult with all 30 owners of the nba.

They are overpaying coaches.

Just get a random guy off the street and pay them minimum wage.

No difference in outcome for teams

 

[pmatic]

Read a rumor we can deal Westbrook for Randle, Kemba and Burks. Would y’all do it?

Nah. Love Julius, but he's not needed. Kemba is washed up, Burks is decent though.

 

[MajinZuub]

Read a rumor we can deal Westbrook for Randle, Kemba and Burks. Would y’all do it?

Hell no

 

[tay1]

Nah. Love Julius, but he's not needed. Kemba is washed up, Burks is decent though.

Damn Kemba already washed? The injuries finally got him?

 

[MajinZuub]

Damn Kemba already washed? The injuries finally got him?

He's been on the decline last couple years.

 

[darthska]

I'd do it, depending on how often Randle is injured. Counting on having AD all the time is foolish at this point. When he's out, everything collapses. I want a front court that is strong when he's out, (which will be a lot), but STRONGER when he's in.

Plus I like Randle. And I think his game compliments Bron perfectly.

-foe

 

[tay1]

I'd do it, depending on how often Randle is injured. Counting on having AD all the time is foolish at this point. When he's out, everything collapses. I want a front court that is strong when he's out, (which will be a lot), but STRONGER when he's in.

Plus I like Randle. And I think his game compliments Bron perfectly.

-foe

Facts. I think Randle would work. He’d have the ball in his hand enough.

We do need additional shooters though.

 

[pmatic]

Damn Kemba already washed? The injuries finally got him?

32 year old 5'11 PG with knee trouble. No bueno.

 

[Brosizzlew30.23]

Erik Spolestra was a video guy, had D Wade for 2 years, mid level team.
Add Bron/Bosh, many wanted Spo fired/replaced, went to FOUR STRAIGHT FINALS, Bron leaves, Bosh sick, Spo doesn't even make playoffs.

I guess I'm twisting actual facts or something. *Shrugs*

Yes you are twisting actual facts. Because you conveniently left out how Spoelstra, the "Random Suit Guy" led a Bron-less, Wade-less, and Bosh-less team to the FINALS in 2020 that won 2 games vs the mighty Lakers without their starting PG and their starting Center. 2 years later, his Bron-less and Wade-less team is still 1st place in the East. You think an Uber Driver coulda done that? LOL

I'm embarrassed to know you have so little respect for this random NBA "video guy" as if he ain't proven jack cheese in his coaching career.

I wonder if Mike Brown, Mike Schuler, or Gene Shue could've led Karl Malone and John Stockton to the Finals had any of them coached Utah from 96-98 instead of Sloan in a loaded Western Conference playoff field. Hmm....

#coachingmattersBigTime

 

[darthska]

Wearing your lucky shirt before the game ain't it.

The devil is a LIE!!!

-foe

 

[atlsfinest]

I'd do it, depending on how often Randle is injured. Counting on having AD all the time is foolish at this point. When he's out, everything collapses. I want a front court that is strong when he's out, (which will be a lot), but STRONGER when he's in.

Plus I like Randle. And I think his game compliments Bron perfectly.

-foe

I might do it simply because Russell Westbrook's contract and presence on this roster are so toxic but I'm not a big fan of randall, especially not playing with LeBron. The Randle is a bad shooter (he had one aberration year when he shot the lights out last season but over the course of his career, he's a terrible shooter). He can't stretch the floor and he doesn't play defense.

His game doesn't compliment LeBron because he can't shoot, he needs the ball in his hands to be effective and he clogs the lane. He's literally the exact player we don't need.

 

[darthska]

I might do it simply because Russell Westbrook's contract and presence on this roster are so toxic but I'm not a big fan of randall, especially not playing with LeBron. The Randle is a bad shooter (he had one aberration year when he shot the lights out last season but over the course of his career, he's a terrible shooter). He can't stretch the floor and he doesn't play defense.

His game doesn't compliment LeBron because he can't shoot, he needs the ball in his hands to be effective and he clogs the lane. He's literally the exact player we don't need.

But I like Randle.

atlplz

-foe

 

[pmatic]

BIG WESTBRICK.