**LA LAKERS THREAD** Sitting on 17! 2023-2024 offseason begins

Brosizzlew30.23 said:
Imagine thinking Javale McGee is on that Keith Closs-Matt Fish level while not knowing about Javale's three rings, why Javale continues to get contracts with title contending teams, etc, etc, because Javale only averages 8 and 8 and 2 blks in 12 minutes of play :lol:

Imagine not knowing the difference between Javale and any another random big in the league who puts up similar numbers yet never makes a winning impact on their team :lol:
Click to expand...

What is the winning impact on DNP's? In the NBA Finals.

What is the going rate for those?
 
B72E8CA1-6432-4FC3-8E30-00048E981893.jpeg
 
Last edited:
Lizakers said:
I’m worried guys. Boston looking like a real legit contender to pass us and get #18
Click to expand...
Would make sense in Karma terms. Jeanie is awful and everything she has done lately has bee 90 percent disastrous. It would complete the karma if Celtics won.

Whatever team wins this year will deserve it.
 
Brosizzlew30.23 said:
I wasn't aware that McGee, Portis, Lopez, Howard, Morris, Siakam, Gasol, and Ibaka all logged DNP 's when they were in the Finals :lol:
Click to expand...

Oh, we switchin off Javale now. Ok. Let me adjust here a sec......

Bobby Portis. :lol: Well, that's certainly a take.
Brooke Lopez.....ok, noting this....
Siakam......is 6'9". So.......Kevin Durant = a big? I know I don't know basketball, but I believe Durant is taller than Siakam, so......

Magic/LeBron = bigs too. This is helping....

Kieff Morris......4th string Big. Glad we listed him.

Gasol and Ibaka.....

I'll be right back. :wink:
 
CP1708 said:
Ok, so how much should a guy play, to contribute?

A quarter?
A half?
30+ minutes a night?
40+ minutes a night?

Do they need to play in 4th quarters/overtime?

Roughly. How much? Is half a game fair? Old Duncan with Kawhi/Parker/Manu was about 28 minutes a night. Is that fair, or more, or even less?
Click to expand...
Easy answer. And it has nothing to do with how many minutes they play.

All i gotta say is the devil is in the details.

Which players, or in this case, which Bigs are the type of Bigs who make championship plays, who know positioning, who are all-hustle guys who you can depend on to hold their own when they have to defend the paint, etc etc. ? In other words, the intangibles.

Derek Fisher averaged what, barely 10 ppg? But why was that mf'r so gotdamn valuable? Same thing with Luc Longley, prime Tyson Chandler, Horry, AC Green, Javale McGee, Bogut, Ibaka, Portis, Rick Fox, Andrew Bynum, Odom, Perkins, PJ Brown, Leon Powe, the list goes on and on.

That's a Rhetorical question btw :lol:
 


The next Lakers head coach, why LA shouldn’t trade Anthony Davis and free-agency targets: Lakers mailbag, Part 1

In Part 1 of our two-part Lakers mailbag, we cover some of the team’s head coaching candidates, why trading Anthony Davis doesn’t make sense, wing free-agent targets for the taxpayer midlevel exception, Kendrick Nunn, if LeBron James and Davis can win another championship together and more.

(Submitted questions have been edited for clarity and length.)

What’s the first move to make? — @blackdragonroll

Shout-out to The Athletic’s Jerome Cheng, the star video editor of “Stargazing,” for the question to kick things off.

The Lakers’ first order of business this offseason should be hiring a new head coach. That monumental decision will have a wide-ranging impact on the direction of the roster, the best Russell Westbrook trade package (depending, of course, on the market for Westbrook) and the identity of next season’s team. James and Davis probably can keep the Lakers competitive in spite of their next coach’s weaknesses, but it would help if he was simpatico with his stars’ strengths.

The Lakers’ next head coaching hire could be one of the few ways the franchise could close the gap with the growing list of teams that have passed them. It’s going to be difficult to upgrade the roster dramatically, but the right coach could raise both their floor and ceiling.

From there, they need to trade Westbrook and fill out the roster with better-fitting pieces.

Do you think the Lakers pony up a five-year deal for a coach or continue doing short-term deals? Who are some of your personal preferences? — @pickuphoop

What kind of deal do you think the Lakers offer a coaching candidate? I imagine the coach would want a four- to five-year deal with certain perks. — @lakid213

I think it depends on the coaching candidate. The Lakers are aware their last coaching pursuit prompted backlash — from both the fan base and around the league — and I think they’re going to do their best to not repeat the same mistakes. They need to come correct with years and money.

If the Lakers are going to land a coach the caliber of Nick Nurse, Quin Snyder or Doc Rivers, they are going to have to offer a four- or five-year deal at or above market value (at least $7 million annually, but likely more).

That said, I don’t know how much their approach changes with a coaching candidate with less experience and cache. I could see them trying to finagle a shorter deal with a lesser-known candidate by leveraging the allure of the Lakers’ brand. It really depends on the name and experience.

Your top three coaching candidates? — @lelaker6

Among the rumored and reported candidates, my top three are Nurse, Snyder and Mike Brown. I prefer tactical ability over gravitas (a factor that Lakers vice president of basketball operations and general manager Rob Pelinka indicated is going to be atop the Lakers’ search).

Nurse is the obvious top choice. He’s a top-five, if not top-three, coach in the NBA. I assume his job is safe, even if the Raptors are swept by the 76ers. He won a championship just three years ago, and that historically means a coach is protected (unless you’re Frank Vogel). Nurse is a tactical wizard and one of the most creative minds in the league. There’s also the obvious Klutch connection. He should be the top candidate, though it’s unclear how available he actually is, or how much Toronto would demand in compensation for a coach still under contract.

Snyder’s reputation likely is going to take a hit if the Jazz lose to the Luka Doncic-less Mavericks after losing to the Kawhi Leonard-less Clippers last season. Part of that is on him for the team’s repeated meltdowns, its inability to carry over regular-season success to the postseason, and its struggles to counter when teams attack Rudy Gobert with five-out lineups. But a large part of that also is on Gobert’s limitations in the modern NBA, the front office’s roster construction and the weird vibes around the team the past couple of years.

Brown is a retread, as a former head coach and, specifically, as a former Lakers head coach. But he’s been on Steve Kerr’s coaching staff since 2016, with a front-row seat to two championships and three Finals (and perhaps another one this season). Jason Kidd is a great example of a coach learning and growing in an assistant coaching role in a championship environment and becoming a better head coach. It’s reasonable to envision similar success for Brown. He has a strong defensive reputation and is now steeped in Golden State’s motion offense principles.

Juwan Howard probably is my top honorable mention. He has NBA experience, both as an accomplished player and an assistant coach in Miami under Erik Spoelstra. He specializes in player development, has a good relationship with James and has done an impressive job in Michigan.

I have reservations about Rivers, Terry Stotts and Mark Jackson.

Are the Lakers seriously going to entertain trading Anthony Davis? — @sarathdasaraju

No, I don’t think so. If the Lakers were to trade Davis, they’d be trading him at arguably the lowest point of his career. His trade value isn’t where it was six months ago, to say nothing of where it’s dropped from 12 to 18 months ago.

Plus, Davis is still a top-15 player in the league when healthy. The “when healthy” caveat is an issue, of course, but the Lakers are unlikely to get another top-15 player in return for him. And even if they get increased and much-needed depth in return for Davis (think a 3-for-1 trade), you still need to flank James with a top-tier co-star to have a true shot at a championship.

I think trading Davis would be a death knell to the James era. I’ve never understood the idea. I’ll write about this later in the offseason.

Who should the Lakers target with the taxpayer midlevel exception besides Malik Monk? — @lakersview_

For as well as Malik Monk played this season, if the Lakers can find a 3-and-D wing/forward who fits well next to James and Davis, I think they need to spend their taxpayer midlevel exception on that type of player over retaining Monk.

I expect the market for Monk will be more robust than some project. I envision him becoming one of the league’s better sixth-man scorers (a la Lou Williams, Jamal Crawford and Jordan Clarkson). He’s probably going to cost more than the Lakers can afford.

As far as the types of players the Lakers should target with their taxpayer midlevel exception, I think these are some names that could be available: Bruce Brown Jr., Robert Covington, Nicolas Batum, P.J. Tucker, Otto Porter Jr., T.J. Warren and Andre Iguodala.

I think each player could fit around James and Davis in meaningful ways. Covington probably is the best fit. His jumper is erratic, but he has size and length and is a defensive playmaker. He might be the most expensive of the group.

Brown is undersized (6-foot-4), but he can defend bigger players, has shown he can shape-shift around stars and is underrated offensively. Batum and Tucker are older options with the risk of regression, but they’ve shown they can start and contribute in meaningful ways to winning teams. Warren is a wild card coming off foot injuries that have kept him out for almost two years. Iguodala can’t shoot anymore and seems to prefer staying in Golden State, but is worth a mention.

Joe Ingles also is worth monitoring, though probably not for the taxpayer MLE. The Lakers need to prioritize wings over bigs and/or guards, as it’s easier to find those types of players for cheaper, and they’re less essential around Los Angeles’ superstar tandem.

Could Jalen Brunson be a free agency target? — @ipodkillz

Could the Lakers possibly target and bring Cameron Johnson this offseason? — @RichardAller2

In short: No. Jalen Brunson and Cam Johnson are going to each be making eight-figure salaries next season. They’re far out of the Lakers’ price range.

I chose to answer these questions because it shows the constraints the Lakers have in building next season’s roster. Brunson and Johnson aren’t traditional third options, but they’d clearly be the third-best players on this Lakers team. And yet the Lakers won’t even be able to sign those types of players in free agency (one loophole would be trading Westbrook for a player in the Brunson/Johnson range).

I think the Lakers will continue to be a top free-agent destination and punch above their weight in terms of the caliber of players they can nab in spite of their financial constraints, but it’s going to be a challenge to find significant upgrades.

Most likely the Lakers get as head coach: Nick Nurse or Quin Snyder? — @God91In

I know Las Vegas odds disagree with me, but I’ll say Snyder, if only because he’s less likely to be coaching his current team next season than Nurse is.

Nurse is under contract for next season and would require compensation from the Lakers (similar to the Clippers trading for Rivers back in 2013). I’m not sure the Lakers would part with a pick for a coach.

Snyder, meanwhile, seems likely to be fired if the Jazz lose in the first round or are embarrassed by Phoenix in the conference semifinals. Therefore, by virtue of Snyder being the candidate more likely to be available, I would peg him as slightly more realistic.

Are the Lakers likely to keep Kendrick Nunn? Since his contract is basically a bargain next year. — @DomDolla22

Can Nunn be traded this offseason? If yes, when? — @SushantRao

Well, it’s not solely the Lakers’ decision.

Nunn has a $5.1 million player option, and he already said during his exit interview that he plans on picking it up and returning next season. So, odds are greater than not that Nunn will be on the roster next season. If Nunn can remain healthy and return to his Miami production, that’s a bargain for the Lakers.

However, the Lakers can still trade Nunn once he opts in for next season — and likely will try to. He can be traded once the free-agency period officially starts.

Can the Lakers win another championship with LeBron and AD, in your opinion? — @andres21vergara

Yes, but I think they missed their two best remaining chances (2020-21 and 2021-22).

The West is only going to be that much more difficult next season, with Kawhi Leonard, Jamal Murray, Michael Porter Jr. and Zion Williamson all healthy and theoretically returning to their teams (the Williamson situation is murky).

Leaguewide, Doncic, Jayson Tatum, Ja Morant, Devin Booker, Trae Young and Anthony Edwards are on the rise. Kevin Durant, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Stephen Curry, Nikola Jokic and Joel Embiid are top-seven players who are forces to be reckoned with in the postseason.

The Lakers’ supporting cast should be better than last season — it’s obviously difficult for it to be worse — but James and Davis each will be a year older with more mileage. I think the Lakers could return to contention, however ambitious that may currently sound, but their path to a championship will be as difficult as it’s been in the James-Davis era.

What did we do to deserve this? — @gameova38

On the one hand, the Lakers disrespected the basketball gods with their approach, attitude and effort this season. I also think they’ve chased names and experience over continuity, which continues to be one of the more underrated ingredients for team success (and was an underrated part of the 2019-20 group’s championship run). Investing in Westbrook as a third star also was a self-inflicted mistake.

On the other hand, I’m not sure what they did to deserve just 76 regular-season games from Davis and 101 regular-season games from James over the past two seasons. For all of the justified qualms with the Lakers’ roster-building since their title, I think the past two seasons look a lot different if Davis and James each play around 120 games (so, about 60 games per season). There’s some bad juju that needs to be cleared.

The million-dollar question: Will the Lakers move on from Russell Westbrook this offseason? — @ShowTime_32

The million-dollar answer: Yes.
 
CP1708 said:
Siakam......is 6'9". So.......Kevin Durant = a big? I know I don't know basketball, but I believe Durant is taller than Siakam, so......

Magic/LeBron = bigs too.
Click to expand...
No fr, it's becoming more and more clear you don't know basketball and have never played. 😂 Stats, thassit.

Tf does height have to do with the center position?

Copy pasta the following condescending, stubborn, snarky response:

"Oh so you can be short and play Center? Noted. A big can be......small?"

You don't get how Dray is INFINITELY better at being a big than Shawn Bradley, who is WHOLE FOOT 'big'ger. "Wait the small guy is a better big? Me no get it."

Yes, you need a solid big. No that doesn't mean Magic's height. No you're not even trying to understand, and you can't, because....Moneyball is what you know.

-foe
 
Lizakers said:
I’m worried guys. Boston looking like a real legit contender to pass us and get #18
Click to expand...
They would deserve it

Hired a non-big name coach. Got rid of their legacy gm and put someone there that understands modern basketball. Made trades for non-sexy big names and has the team humming.
 
darthska said:
No fr, it's becoming more and more clear you don't know basketball and have never played. 😂 Stats, thassit.

Tf does height have to do with the center position?

Copy pasta the following condescending, stubborn, snarky response:

"Oh so you can be short and play Center? Noted. A big can be......small?"

You don't get how Dray is INFINITELY better at being a big than Shawn Bradley, who is WHOLE FOOT 'big'ger. "Wait the small guy is a better big? Me no get it."

Yes, you need a solid big. No that doesn't mean Magic's height. No you're not even trying to understand, and you can't, because....Moneyball is what you know.

-foe
Click to expand...

Cuz, see, YOU told me not to be black and white. Grey area. Your words to me. Lot of factors to win titles. Luck, coaching, stars, role guys, etc.

"You gotta have bigs to win chips"

Kinda excludes all those ingredients you was preachin to me, no? :nerd:

Then I got thrown Javale's amazing career. Which, ok. That's not somethin I expected but I listened.

Then he countered with
Gasol/Ibaka/Siakam
Dwight/Javale/Kieff
Brook/Portis

Not all of them logged DNP's. He's right, I checked. :wink: :lol:

So don't live in a gray area where we say things like Bigs= rings. That excludes the other details, yes? :nerd:

The other details:
Kawhi/Lowry, + Durant/Klay getting hurt.
LeBron/AD + Elite perimeter Def (and Bam hurt)
Giannis/Middleton/Jrue

You have failed to notice I haven't even cared/used stats. I'm not breakin down Javale's PPG, or Brook Lopez's RPG or any of that. Moneyball is baseball, not Basketball. You don't win with cheap rosters, and if by Moneyball you mean analytics, well that part you would be wrong about. Analytics is what every NBA team uses now. Every single one. That doesn't just mean stats, it means trends.

Think of Rondo. (Not stat wise, analytic wise) Rondo could tell you how many dribbles a guy takes before he takes a step back. Or before he takes a turnaround, etc. That gives Rondo anticipation others wouldn't have.

I fully get the height thing. What I don't get is including Siakam as a Big, not a Wing, ala Tatum, 2009 Ariza etc. (Not the corpse of Ariza)

Every NBA team in History has a Center/Power Forward. That doesn't mean "you have to have a big" to win a chip explains the actual reasons for those chips. It's disingenuous.

I guess I could counter with "You have to have a PG, and SG, and SF to win a ring" Then we'd just agree to disagree?

But, I feel like him usin the grey area will be allowed ya know, cuz HE KNOWS Basketball. 💯

#BobbyPortis
#ThreeRingDNP's
#SmallForwardBigs?
 
CP1708 said:
YOU told me not to be black and white. Grey area. Your words to me. Lot of factors to win titles. Luck, coaching, stars, role guys, etc.

"You gotta have bigs to win chips"

Kinda excludes all those ingredients you was preachin to me, no? :nerd:
Click to expand...
No.

No it doesn't.

Here's what would exclude all those ingredients:

"You... ONLY... need bigs... to win chips."

Only.

ONLY.

But nobody said only.

Know why? Because GRAY AREA. If it were black-and-white, "You only need the best center in the league to win a championship," then the best center in the league would be the champion every year.

Is the best Center in the league the champion every year? Of course not. Know why? Because GRAY AREA.

"The best combination of all necessary components wins the championship every year." That is a gray area statement that makes no sense to an absolute thinker.

Instead of tryna preach to me about gray area flaws, try to understand it first.

(I know you won't, but it sounded good in my mind.)

-foe
 
Ok. I'll take that one word difference. That was my phrasing, or paraphrasing tho. I agree.

His original quotes were No Bigs, no chips. But I won't argue that far down word for word.

I'll agree in the name of random "bigs" like Kurt Rambis, Chris Anderson, John Salley and Boris Diaw and their importance to Championship winning Money errr Basketball.
 
Just jumping in this because #WhyNot

But the two things I’m prioritizing when it comes to winning (not the only things) are defense and rebounding. I think in previous eras you mostly got this from your 4/5’s but in this era of spread pick and rolls/switch everything defense it’s more important to have length at multiple positions instead of just size in the paint.
 
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