**LA LAKERS THREAD** Sitting on 17! 2023-2024 offseason begins

[trynafeelmink]

For all the doomers this pod gives some real reasonable insight on the promise of this Lakers squad & how it isn't worry time yet. Given all the injuries, Back to backs, & strength of schedule And the overall slow start of other "contenders" the Lakers are still in good shape

And in regards to Caruso, while i do like him the push to get him given that he has a vast market of suitors & isn't much of a shooter or playmaker himself is kind of weird, on top of only playing 60 games 2/6 seasons.

 

[pmatic]

Even with the everyone back, they need a guard that can get to the hoop. Reaves can do that to a certain point and that's not D'Lo-Vincent's games. While I wouldn't complain about having Caruso back, they need an athletic offensive guard (preferably that can shoot too) more.

That's where the interest in LaVine and even DeRozan has weight, but it's too much of a cost to get those guys and why Brogdon should be the trade target.

 

[sohi 23]

Didn’t realize Houston hasn’t won a road game all year. Hopefully they get hit with that La flu this weekend

 

[sohi 23]

Lakers basically only have the ammo for 1 trade. They have to hit with it. I’d just wait until the deadline and go for the best deal

 

[pdino]

Lakers basically only have the ammo for 1 trade. They have to hit with it. I’d just wait until the deadline and go for the best deal

Got that pick, but most teams want some players too. DLo playing well (offensively), but doesn't seem like any team is interested. Most teams want Reaves and/or Rui

 

[Brosizzlew30.23]

I think in general he's fine... a lot of coaching is subjective, so you won't always agree with every single strategy but there's a logical reason behind these moves. We won't always agree with every single rotation, but there's also backstories and locker room politics that influence these decisions.

You been listening to the Pete Zayas and Darius Soriano podcast lately?

Or are you Pete or Darius masquerading as grittyman up in here?

 

[Brosizzlew30.23]

ALL of this, ESPECIALLY about the coaches

Because literally outside of Pop (SPO might have gotten himself into that convo after that last run)... every other coach has been called trash & the fanbase wanted them fired

Mike Bown (literally been through this 3-4 times), J.Kidd, Steve Kerr, Mike Malone etc etc

Darvin Ham has his flaws and makes mistakes but people are acting as if the record reflects solely on his coaching as if he hasn't been down 3-4 major rotation players the entire season

When Gabe, Rui, Vando, and Cam are back at full strength with the team, do you honestly see this team going on any kind of 10-plus game winning streak this season and playing .700 basketball the rest of the way?

If so, then Ham gets nothing but props from me.

If not and they continue to regress from last year and play .500 ball, you already know what the storyline gonna be.

 

[grittyman]

You been listening to the Pete Zayas and Darius Soriano podcast lately?

Or are you Pete or Darius masquerading as grittyman up in here?

Not really but this is like common sense coach...you of all people should know this right? Assuming you've been in a locker room before and had to make these type of decisions.

 

[essential1]

I think what they end up doing is just piece together a bunch of the bench guys, the young guys and whatever pick to get the best player they can get out of it.

-Expiring deals are not worth what they use to. 10 even 5 years ago. And because DLo played himself out of a ton of money in the WCF. The cost benefit analysis of trading him is a negative. Meaning finding a better player in the salary range they can trade. And if that guy is even available. Brogdan isn’t going for DLo. He would be going for AR and the extra $3-4mil needed to make it work.
Anything could happen. But there’s an equal chance he gets traded as there is he signs another deal. The match made in necessity argument. DLo’s value is moreso in stacking for a big deal. But as seen with Lavine, the pieces needed to match make the team worse.
-They won’t include AR in deals.
- Don’t see where they put Rui in a deal. And if it’s not Rui. Then there’s not much to put together.

 

[Brosizzlew30.23]

Not really but this is like common sense coach...you of all people should know this right? Assuming you've been in a locker room before and had to make these type of decisions.

Wanna know know what's common sense too?

Everything I've been saying about the Lakers deficiencies.

And I'm sure you can easily comprehend and know how to count. You're a smart guy.

 

[Brosizzlew30.23]

I think what they end up doing is just piece together a bunch of the bench guys, the young guys and whatever pick to get the best player they can get out of it.

-Expiring deals are not worth what they use to. 10 even 5 years ago. And because DLo played himself out of a ton of money in the WCF. The cost benefit analysis of trading him is a negative. Meaning finding a better player in the salary range they can trade. And if that guy is even available. Brogdan isn’t going for DLo. He would be going for AR and the extra $3-4mil needed to make it work.
Anything could happen. But there’s an equal chance he gets traded as there is he signs another deal. The match made in necessity argument. DLo’s value is moreso in stacking for a big deal. But as seen with Lavine, the pieces needed to match make the team worse.
-They won’t include AR in deals.
- Don’t see where they put Rui in a deal. And if it’s not Rui. Then there’s not much to put together.

With The Robfather, anything is possible.

He could definitely improve the current roster by dealing any multi player combination below

Prince
Rui
Lewis
JHS
DLo
AR
Gabe
Plus a pick or two

 

[pmatic]

 

[lovehateself]

we byke byke

 

[Brosizzlew30.23]

Lakers' coaching staff already knows the numbers but Ham's hands are stuck in his pockets therefore he is unable to point the team in the right direction

The result is .500 basketball. What's funny is thinking Vando, Rui, and Gabe are the saviors and that all of sudden this team at full strength is going to flip the switch and turn into a legit title contender

When they all return it will be more of the same unless Ham goes 2-Big with AD the majority of his minutes unlike he's been doing thus far this season going with plenty of 1-Big 5-out lineups with AD. That's a recipe for mediocrity.

Lakers need to go Super Big with this roster if they wanna even have a chance at sniffing the O'Brien

 

[sohi 23]

Season starts on Saturday!

I’d go Dlo/cam/vando/bron/ad
Reaves and Rui as the 6th & 7th men

 

[essential1]

New Season. Time for some Mountain Dew C CP1708

 

[essential1]

What we should be looking at tomorrow

DLo/Cam/Vando/Bron/AD
AR/Max/TP/Rui/Wood

Biggest bright side. No Jaxon Hayes

 

[CP1708]

 

[noblekane]

austin reaves what is you doing?

 

[tupac003]

The first game I go to in a few years and our team is finally getting healthy. Can't wait until tomorrow now.

 

[Brosizzlew30.23]

Nurkic not scared to go right at Jokic in the low post, PHX goes to him down low three straight possessions and scores over Jokic twice, easily. While making life that much easier for KD.

Vogel is smart.

What big man does AD have to help him against the Joker's, Embiid's, and Sabonis's of the world? Nobody.

The streaking Suns are now beating the Nuggets after being down double digits early.

Nurkic has 26 points and counting. Jokic has 14 pts.

Lakers could sure use someone like a Nurkic.

I'm all in on trading for a white big bodied European center Valanciunas, Vucevic, Poeltl, give me any of em.

 

[pdino]

I'm all in on trading for a white big bodied European center Valanciunas, Vucevic, Poeltl, give me any of em.

 

[Brosizzlew30.23]

Lakers gotta keep up with the trend and get em one to help skinny bones AD

Bos - Porzingis
Den - Jokic
Phx - Nurkic
Sac - Sabonis

All legit playoff squads looking to make deep postseason runs.

 

[pmatic]

Spoiler

How good are the Los Angeles Lakers after 20 games? Even they don’t know

Through 20 games, the Los Angeles Lakers aren’t exactly sure how to evaluate themselves.

Are they the middling group that has struggled offensively and against above-.500 teams? Are they a sleeping giant decimated by injuries and a difficult early schedule? Somewhere in between?

“It’s hard to say what needs to change or what can get better without seeing our entire team,” Anthony Davis told reporters last week.

Analyzing the Lakers at the quartermark of the season is a nuanced affair. On the surface, their 11-9 record is disappointing for a group with championship aspirations. They’re 23rd in offense and 14th in defense, both subpar marks for a true contender. They’ve trailed at the end of the first quarter in 12 out of 20 games, including by double-digits eight times. They’re statistically the league’s worst 3-point shooting team. They’re just 5-9 against teams .500 or better. Davis, LeBron James, Austin Reaves and D’Angelo Russell have missed just two games combined — stellar health for the top of the roster.

At the same time, it’s impossible to ignore how injuries that have impacted their season. Jarred Vanderbilt has yet to play in a game. Gabe Vincent has missed 16 of 20 games. Rui Hachimura has now missed eight games, nearly half the season. Cam Reddish, who broke out as a starter in November, has missed four games. Los Angeles also has played somewhere between the eighth- to 11th-hardest schedule, depending on the metric.

“I mean, we haven’t been whole,” Lakers coach Darvin Ham said after Thursday’s 133-110 loss to the Oklahoma City Thunder. “It’s impossible to make an assessment (at the 20-game mark). … You have to continuously just be ready to have plan B-Z sometimes. … We know we have the pieces that once we do get everybody where they’re supposed to be physically, we’ll be able to make a ton of headway in terms of how we continue to progress through the season.”

James, who bluntly said “a lot” needed to change after the Lakers’ historic 44-point loss to the 76ers last Monday, was in a more upbeat mood after what he implied was a predictable loss to the Thunder, with the Lakers on the second night of a back-to-back and missing five rotation players (Vanderbilt, Vincent, Hachimura, Reddish and Jaxson Hayes).

“I have no idea what we are,” James said. “How? We don’t have a group yet. I know what some of us individually are, but as far as a team, we don’t have our group yet. I don’t know. We haven’t logged enough minutes with our group where we know, ‘OK, we got the starting group, we got the guys coming in, we got a good rhythm.’ I mean, we’re over .500. We’re 11-9 with literally not ever having our same group. That’s pretty impressive.”

Here are nine other takeaways from the first 20 games of the Lakers’ season.

1. The in-flux inactive list
The best recent news for the Lakers: They’re getting healthier. Let’s run through some injury updates:

• Vanderbilt (left heel bursitis) and Hachimura (nasal fracture) have both been cleared to return against the Rockets on Saturday. It’ll mark Vanderbilt’s first game of the season and Hachimura’s 13th. Vanderbilt is expected to return to his role as the team’s starting small forward next to Davis and James, but it’s unclear if he’ll start Saturday after missing so much time.
• There is no timetable yet for Vincent (left knee effusion). It’s been more than two weeks since he was supposed to be re-evaluated.
• Reddish (right groin soreness) and Hayes (left elbow soreness) are both probable against Houston and otherwise remain day-to-day.

2. The Clutch King
James’ crunchtime decision-making has long been scrutinized. Unlike many of his legendary scoring contemporaries, James would rather create the best shot possible — even if it means ceding control and passing to a teammate — than force a contested, lower-percentage shot (though he’s done that a fair share of times too).

The hilarity with national discourse surrounding James’ pass to Reddish in an early-season loss to Miami is that James has been dominant in the clutch this season, as he’s been for most of his career.

The Lakers have a negative point differential (-30) and have trailed for long stretches of this season. But if they get into a close game, they have one of the league’s best late-game directors at generating high-percentage shots and manipulating time and score.

They are 6-3 in games that have featured “clutch” sequences, defined as when the score margin is within five points with five or fewer minutes left. That is a testament to James’ ability to bend games to his will in crucial moments. James is fifth in the NBA in points scored in the clutch (45), first in field goals made (17), tied for fourth in field goals attempted (26) and fourth in field-goal percentage among the 73 players that have taken at least 10 shots in the clutch (65.4 percent).

He hasn’t been perfect — his decision-making in the team’s near-rally on Nov. 22 against the Dallas Mavericks was uncharacteristically poor — but he remains one of the game’s best closers.

3. AD’s atrophied jump shot
The buzz in training camp that Davis’ jumper had returned was unfounded. Not only has his shooting not improved this season, but it’s been significantly worse than in the recent past.

Davis has made just 3 of 11 3-pointers this season (27.3 percent) in 19 games. He’s averaging 0.61 attempts per game, his lowest figure since 2014-15, his third season in the league. That number is roughly one-tenth of the six attempts Ham asked for in training camp. Davis shot the 3-ball well in the preseason, making six of his 13 attempts in five games (about 2.6 attempts per game). But it hasn’t translated to the regular season.

It’s not just the 3s; Davis is struggling to make jumpers, period. He’s shooting just 17.7 percent outside of the paint and has made 15.0 percent of his mid-range jumpers, by far the lowest number of his career.

Teams no longer fear Davis’ jumper; they welcome it. That largely explains his offensive inconsistency and is a crucial reason the Lakers’ offense has been so easy to stymie. Teams rarely worry about Davis popping into a midrange jumper or 3-pointer; in essence, he has gone from a three-level scorer in the championship season to a one-level scorer now. As L.A. looks to juice up its offense and create more 3s, Davis’ jump-shooting — or lack thereof — will determine the effort’s success or failure.

4. A potentially fatal flaw
The Lakers’ offense has largely sputtered when not facing a lottery-level opponent like the Pistons, Trail Blazers, Jazz or Grizzlies. Their 23rd-ranked offense is the biggest blemish on their contender résumé.

There are several problems at play: The five-out offense hasn’t been as effective as they hoped, the roster lacks downhill creators outside of James and there hasn’t been lineup continuity due to injuries.

But the main factor has been the team’s crippling inability to make 3s. The Lakers rank 30th in the NBA in 3s made per 100 possessions, 30th in 3s attempted per 100 possessions and 28th in 3-point percentage. All three rankings are problematic, but the lack of attempt volume might be the most troubling when considering that a five-out offense should be creating driving lanes that lead to kick-out passes and a bevy of open 3s.

“Sometimes the game doesn’t allow for that to happen,” Ham said of his group taking more 3s. “And so we have to make solid plays continue and continuously just look in search for ways we can get (them) without it being forceful. It has to be organic, because we don’t want to give up or turn down a layup just so we can get more 3s. I want to get the best shot available. It’s something that we’re mindful of and something for sure we’ll get better at as we start to get bodies back in the lineup.”

The Lakers need to take more 3s — and, ideally, make more. They’re losing the math game too consistently against decent opponents.

On paper, this isn’t an issue that will be resolved by injured players returning. Only Vincent is a proven long-range shooter among the role players who have missed time — though Hachimura and Reddish are both shooting well on low volume this season. If the Lakers continue to operate as a bottom-10, if not bottom-three, 3-point shooting team, they’ll continue to flounder with mediocre offensive performances. They’re due for positive regressin.

5. Trade season is upon us
Trade season starts in two weeks on Dec. 15 (though discussions can certainly take place before then). That’s the date most players who signed contracts this past offseason are eligible to be moved.

For the Lakers, that includes Russell, Vincent, Taurean Prince, Reddish, Christian Wood and Hayes. Hachimura and Reaves can’t be traded until Jan 15. Davis can’t be traded until Feb. 6. Vanderbilt can’t be traded this season. Until Dec. 15, LeBron James, Max Christie, Jalen Hood-Schifino and Maxwell Lewis are the team’s only trade-eligible players.

The Athletic already reported on the Lakers’ interest in three Bulls players: Zach LaVine, DeMar DeRozan and former Laker Alex Caruso. The Lakers have interest in LaVine but would prefer to acquire DeRozan or Caruso, as their contracts are expiring (Caruso has a partial guarantee for 2024-25) and provide more flexibility. Caruso specifically fills a clear need as an elite backcourt defender, and he has already proven he can thrive alongside James and Davis.

That said, don’t expect a move immediately after Dec. 15. The Lakers plan to take a patient approach to the trade market, team sources not authorized to speak publicly tell The Athletic, and would prefer to see what their group looks like whole before making a monumental roster decision. They’re still evaluating their needs and will continue to monitor the league, including potential fire sales in Toronto, Washington, Utah, Brooklyn and/or Charlotte that could make useful rotation players available.

There’s always a chance they strike a move before the February deadline — similar to acquiring Hachimura a couple of weeks before last season’s — but a trade is far more likely to come later in the trading window than sooner.

6. Revisiting Reaves as a sixth man
Moving Reaves to the bench, done to split up him and Russell while balancing the Lakers’ second-unit lineups, has mostly worked so far. The Lakers are 8-4 since the swap, ranking 17th in offense and sixth in defense. Reaves is playing much better, though it’s unclear how much of that is due to his new sixth-man role versus him regaining his legs and having the ball in his hands more.

Here’s how he’s fared off the bench in comparison to as a starter.

Austin Reaves' starter-bench splits

Reaves is shooting the ball better, scoring more, getting to the free-throw line more, creating more opportunities and operating as more of a net-positive player overall after a slow start to the season. The move also has had a trickle-down effect, allowing Reddish and Christie to thrive in lineups that simplify their responsibilities to merely be 3-and-D role players around James, Davis and Russell.

Nonetheless, Reaves isn’t satisfied with his recent play and feels like he has a ton of room for improvement, pointing to his shooting as an area that can lift L.A.’s below-average offense.

“I mean, I can speak for myself only and I just haven’t shot the ball well,” Reaves said Thursday. “I like the shots that I’ve gotten and I’m shooting them confidently. It just hasn’t went in.”

There are several theories for Reaves’ early-season inefficiency: fatigue from his Team USA stint, opponents defending him differently now that he’s closer to the top of their scouting reports, his own adjustment to the Lakers playing him more at point guard, a simple early-season slump and others. Reaves admits he has seen different defensive looks, but insists he’s getting the types of shots he wants.

“I think it’s a little bit of both,” Reaves said when asked if he’s noticed different defensive strategies against him this season. “I don’t think I’ve gotten shots that I don’t like. I think I shot three 3s in the first half (against the Thunder) and they were all good looks. I just didn’t make them. And like I said, that’s just basketball. Coaches and everybody players-wise are telling me to keep shooting them. So, that’s what I’m going to do.”

Whether he’s starting or coming off the bench, the Lakers haven’t figured out how to maximize Reaves yet this season. He can also play better and more consistently. But calculating the best way to use him should be one of the Lakers’ top priorities over the next quarter of the season.

7. Which lineups are working?
With the obvious caveat that we’re still dealing with small sample sizes, here is some interesting lineup data from the first 20 games.

• The Lakers only have three five-man units that have played 50 or more minutes: Their three starting lineups. The original one — Davis, James, Taurean Prince, Reaves and Russell — has gradually become a positive, with the group logging minutes in the middle of first and third quarters when Reaves checks in. The Lakers are plus-7 in that group’s 89 minutes. The Lakers are plus-6 in 69 minutes with the next group — Davis, James, Reddish, Prince and Russell — on the floor. Finally, the Lakers’ most recent starting fivesome of Davis, James, Prince, Christie and Russell is a plus-12 in 53 minutes.
• The Lakers’ best two-man combination, minimum 100 minutes: James and Wood. Los Angeles has outscored opponents by 71 points in their 212 minutes together. Wood’s spacing and shooting have been a beneficial pairing with James’ downhill attack.
• The Lakes’ worst two-man combination, minimum 100 minutes: Reaves and Christie. Los Angeles has been outscored by 43 points in their 129 minutes together. These minutes have often come in either bench units or end-of-first/third-quarter units, both of which have struggled in general for the Lakers.
• The Lakers are plus-69 in the 375 minutes that James, Davis and Russell have played together. They are (surprisingly) minus-15 in the 238 minutes that James, Davis and Reaves have played together and plus-3 in the 172 minutes that James, Davis, Russell and Reaves have overlapped on the floor.
• Lineups with Davis and Wood have outscored opponents by nine points in their 195 minutes. Lineups with Davis and Hayes have outscored opponents by one point in 31 minutes together. Lineups with Wood and Hayes have been outscored by 27 points in their 122 minutes together. The two-center lineups haven’t been as successful in recent weeks.
• Most of the Lakers’ best lineup combinations feature James, Russell, Wood, Vincent and Reddish. Most of their worst feature Reaves, Prince, Christie and (also) Wood.

8. The fifth starter
Vanderbilt is expected to return to the starting lineup — if not right away, then shortly thereafter. That creates a potential opening with the fifth starting spot between Prince, Reddish, Christie and, yes, Reaves.

Prince is the incumbent who has started since opening night. He impressed early, winning the starting battle in training camp and scoring 18-plus points in two of the first three games. But he’s cooled off considerably since then, shooting just 20.9 percent on 3s over his next 11 contests. While he’s recovered to go 8-of-15 on 3s in his last three games, he’s been outplayed by Reddish and Christie, who plug important needs as point-of-attack defenders and superior rebounders. Prince should stand to lose the most minutes with a fully healthy roster, though he’s so far earned Ham’s loyalty despite his play.

Reddish is tracking to be latest successful Lakers reclamation project, joining the likes of Malik Monk, Lonnie Walker IV and Stanley Johnson in past seasons. His insertion into the starting lineup was surprising considering he had yet to justify a promotion with his play, but it has worked. Here are Reddish’s splits as a starter and bench player:

Cam Reddish starter-bench splits

He’s a menace defensively, ranking first in the league in steals in November before his injury two weeks ago. The biggest factor that will cement his role is if his long-range shooting sustains; he’s made 41.2 percent of his 3s as a starter.

Christie has been the biggest beneficiary of the team’s recent slew of injuries. He has been thrust into a starting role and trusted to be the team’s primary guard defender. He did well when matched up against Donovan Mitchell on Nov. 25, limiting the Cavaliers’ All-Star to five points on 1-of-7 shooting, per NBA.com.

Christie’s footwork, posture, hand quickness and intelligence make him an effective defender. He’s also a smart cutter with a knack for finding empty spaces. It will be tough to keep him out of the rotation.

And then there’s Reaves. The Lakers know the lineup of Davis, James, Vanderbilt, Reaves and Russell worked in the 2022-23 regular season and the first two rounds of the 2023 playoffs. Vanderbilt’s length, energy and athleticism cover up many of the deficiencies of the Reaves-Russell combo defensively and on the glass. It’s probably worth another shot.

9. In-Season Tournament optimism
The Lakers are one of the success stories of the inaugural In-Season Tournament, which has brought out the best in them. They earned the West’s No. 1 seed behind a dominant plus-74 point differential, the best in the league by a substantial margin.

In hindsight, their group was relatively easy. Memphis has been the league’s biggest underachiever without Ja Morant. Utah has been notably worse than last season. Phoenix’s big three has yet to play a second together, and Devin Booker didn’t play in either matchup against L.A. (including the In-Season Tournament game the Lakers won in Phoenix). Two-game win streak aside, Portland is arguably the worst team in the West.

Still, the Lakers’ matchups were out of their control, and they obliterated their group. A win against Booker and the Suns on Tuesday would do wonders for the team’s morale and the perception of their start to the season. A win also guarantees that each player will earn at least $100,000 (and upwards of $500,000 if they win the championship).

The Lakers are serious about playing in Las Vegas. Let’s see how this group fares with real stakes.

 

[MIKE LOWERY]

Bron doing his thing. Someone's getting moved come January.

That's where the interest in LaVine and even DeRozan has weight, but it's too much of a cost to get those guys and why Brogdon should be the trade target.

Definitely. Grant as well.



















Miles Bridges too.