- Aug 2, 2008
- 37,549
- 13,052
Also he ain’t wrong.
The lack of off ball play calling can be frustrating.
And he’s not wrong, if he misses they take him out. Cam could throw the ball at the scoreboard and he’ll play.
**LA LAKERS THREAD** Sitting on 17! 2023-2024 offseason begins
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Also he ain’t wrong.
The lack of off ball play calling can be frustrating.
And he’s not wrong, if he misses they take him out. Cam could throw the ball at the scoreboard and he’ll play.
MVP
Supporter
- Feb 28, 2008
- 83,036
- 85,625
Cam does his main job which is to defend. Any scoring you get is a bonus.
D'Lo is supposed to score if he doesn't do that then there's nothing to fall back on. And he actively hurts you on the defensive end.
That's the difference. D'Lo is actively trying to get moved though from the looks of it.
D'Lo is supposed to score if he doesn't do that then there's nothing to fall back on. And he actively hurts you on the defensive end.
That's the difference. D'Lo is actively trying to get moved though from the looks of it.
- Aug 2, 2008
- 37,549
- 13,052
He’s been better than AR in almost every metric. Sooooo shrugs.
Further, not only has he been better. Every other player on the team plays better with him.
Further, not only has he been better. Every other player on the team plays better with him.
- Feb 5, 2013
- 39,364
- 40,820
darthska
Staff member
- Apr 30, 2004
- 46,975
- 31,599
I agree with you on Vogel. He's not great, as evidenced by PHX basically right where we are.
But 2 things I keep in mind with that:
#1. Like I mentioned, I remember when Spo was constantly on the hot seat. Now? Almost everyone regards him as a top coach in the league. So let's rewind back to when he was on the hot seat. I don't think he would be almost unanimously regarded today as a top coach in the league if Riley had axed him back when he was on the hot seat. He would be with another team, floundering, and Heat fans would be going "See? If he's such a great coach then why is his current team still trash?"
#2. roster > coach
And I'm not saying that we should have kept Vogel. I'm saying that Spo (and Kidd, and Lue) are all regarded as top coaches in the league, and it wasn't very long ago that there were different jokes being said about all 3 of them being head coaches.
- Sep 5, 2010
- 92,809
- 129,116
D'Lo's passing does help the offense.
- Feb 29, 2000
- 88,762
- 47,972
anyone is better than hayes at this point
what team is wenyen on?
what team is wenyen on?
- Sep 5, 2010
- 92,809
- 129,116
Last I saw, the Bucks G-League team.
MVP
Supporter
- Feb 28, 2008
- 83,036
- 85,625
Yea, but Bron wants to play PG and AR is more versatile so it just leaves him as spotting up mostly.
- Apr 8, 2010
- 12,730
- 6,203
I’m not into the numbers but this is interesting.
- Sep 5, 2010
- 92,809
- 129,116
LeBron/Lakers won't have the patience to tolerate D'Lo's pendulum swings between being good and so disgustingly poor. It's really hard to blame them after last spring. It can be game to game, quarter to quarter. 
- Aug 2, 2008
- 37,549
- 13,052
Here it goes.
In simple stats
DLo +53 (1st on the team)
AR -93 (Last on the team)
Offensive Rating
DLo 114.0 (T-1st with AD)
AR 111.0 (7th)
Defensive Rating
DLo 112.3 (9th)
AR 115.2 (Last)
Net Rating
DLo +1.7 (3rd)
AR -4.2 (11th only one worse is Hayes)
Net Rating In 1st Quarters
DLo -9.1
AR -19.6
Net Rating In 2nd Quarters
DLo +9.1
AR -0.9
Net Rating In 3rd Quarters
DLo +4.0
AR +0.4
Net Rating In 4th Quarters
DLo +5.7
AR +0.6
2-Man Lineups
AD & DLo 798 minutes 114.4/112.3
AD & AR 799 minutes 112.1/116.3
Bron & DLo 675 minutes 112.6/108.9
Bron & AR 721 minutes 111.9/114.6
3-Man Lineups
AD + Bron & DLo 535 minutes 112.4/107.8
AD + Bron & AR 488 minutes 111.6/116.9
5-man lineups:
DLo/Cam/TP/Bron/AD 151 minutes 108.8/108.5
AR/Cam/TP/Bron/AD 94 minutes 111.1/121.6
DLo/Max/TP/Bron/AD 72 minutes 117.5/104.4
AR/Max/TP/Bron/AD 24 minutes 117.5/115.8
DLo/Cam/Rui/Bron/AD 17 minutes 92.7/89.7
AR/Cam/Rui/Bron/AD 27 minutes 106.8/112.1
In Isolation
DLo 1.19 PPP
AR 1.13PPP
In Transition
DLo 1.12 PPP
AR 1.04 PPP
I finally found a stat. P&R
DLo 0.88 PPP
AR 1.12 PPP
Spot Up
DLo 1.13 PPP
AR 0.95 PPP
Defended FG%
DLo 49.2%
AR 49.7%
Passing
DLo 45 passes per game
AR 46.6 passes per game.
DLo has 1.3 more assists and secondary assists per game
Assists to AD. DLo 59 to AR 36
Assists to Bron. DLo 43 to AR 54
Assists to TP. DLo 30 to AR 21
Team with DLo vs w/out DLo
2P FG% .566 vs .546
3P FG% .369 vs .337
MIKE LOWERY
formerly chuck finster
- Mar 1, 2007
- 7,599
- 4,732
Yeah, I don't think the biggest issue is DLo's play. I think Bron/AD/Ham flat out don't like him/have no patience for him. Which is why I think he's the one that gets moved. For better or worse. Go back to the first game of the season. Bron was mic'd up. What he said was pretty telling about what he felt about DLo. His pod might be making it worse if he actually wants to stay.
- Jul 29, 2012
- 4,735
- 5,520
HAM and Bron can’t stand when DLo misses his defensive rotations, boxing out, helping/switching. AR generally makes the correct plays and is in right position, he’s just a un-athletic, weakling so his contests aren’t effective.
- Jan 18, 2006
- 40,371
- 45,126
essential1
I know D.lo is your guy. I know the advanced stats show he is better than AR.
But sadly I don't think D.lo fits...and it may not be basketball wise....personality may not fit with the squad.
I just want the team to get better and in order to do that D.lo may have to go....
Or maybe they just play better and see how it shakes out...I don't know.
- Jan 2, 2010
- 82,790
- 118,318
- Sep 19, 2012
- 7,730
- 10,701
Man let’s stop the
and keep it a 100, most of us in here probably don’t care about any of these advanced stats for DLo… we’ve seen him play long enough, we know what he is and what he is not. I think it’s safe to assume most of us want him off this team cause he ain’t it… a lesser talented player who’s more reliable will do just fine.
- Aug 2, 2008
- 37,549
- 13,052
Advanced stats are results. Even the regular stats say the same thing. The “eye test” means nothing if it isn’t backed up by results (stats).
And sure all signs are pointing to a trade. But if you actually said to yourself “I want to field the best team, and get the best trade I can get for the best player I could get. AR is the guy you trade 100 times out of 100.” (Neither should be traded by the way).
grittyman
actually deserves just due because he has said yup you could or should trade AR too.
And sure all signs are pointing to a trade. But if you actually said to yourself “I want to field the best team, and get the best trade I can get for the best player I could get. AR is the guy you trade 100 times out of 100.” (Neither should be traded by the way).
grittyman
actually deserves just due because he has said yup you could or should trade AR too.
- Aug 2, 2008
- 37,549
- 13,052
Anyway. Moving on.
As much as Bismack makes sense (should have signed him in the off-season). Felt like he was available forever.
I wonder how bringing him in would fit with Wood playing well, and deserving of minutes.
Or is it just to get Hayes out of the way of even possibly being used. Saving Ham from himself.
And how would a Bismack move reverberate down to the forward log jam because if you have AD, Wood and Bismack, that will bleed into minutes at the 4. Which will lead to Bron playing the 3.
It gets super tricky because it’ll be
AD, Bron, TP, Rui, Vando, Wood, Bismack vying for 144 minutes. Good problem to have though. But feel it’s missing 1 guy. And as I’ve said all year. The bridge between DLo/AR and Bron/AD from a schematic fit.
As much as Bismack makes sense (should have signed him in the off-season). Felt like he was available forever.
I wonder how bringing him in would fit with Wood playing well, and deserving of minutes.
Or is it just to get Hayes out of the way of even possibly being used. Saving Ham from himself.
And how would a Bismack move reverberate down to the forward log jam because if you have AD, Wood and Bismack, that will bleed into minutes at the 4. Which will lead to Bron playing the 3.
It gets super tricky because it’ll be
AD, Bron, TP, Rui, Vando, Wood, Bismack vying for 144 minutes. Good problem to have though. But feel it’s missing 1 guy. And as I’ve said all year. The bridge between DLo/AR and Bron/AD from a schematic fit.
- Sep 19, 2012
- 7,730
- 10,701
I know what they are… stats without any context are mostly just meaningless numbers imo.
And yes, I don’t believe a team can be successful with two guards who will be targeted relentlessly on defense by opposing teams. I’m sure your response will be something about contracts and value so I’ll save you the trouble and just let you know that I do not care about that. It’s not about plugging salaries into the trade machine to say well you might as well keep this guy because this is what you’d get back…not my point. At the end of the day against the elite teams DLo will be played off the floor and I don’t believe Austin’s offense is enough to offset how terrible he is on defense… but maybe he can at least be serviceable on that end, I do think he has shown that ability in previous seasons.
- Apr 24, 2006
- 18,754
- 13,105
You can find any stats to support your narrative
What’s the old saying? There are three types of lies….Lies, damn lies and statistics
Fact is no coach GM or scout has Dlo over AR
teams want AR in any trade not Dlo
AR ran the offense and we reached the WCF, where Dlo was hunted and exposed by Bruce freakin Brown who hasn’t been heard of since. Dlo lost all his confidence and gave us nothing that series after having sporadic good games in previous series
AR is a way better player with a better motor, better competitive spirit and better attitude who isn’t emotionally unstable on and off the court.
What’s the old saying? There are three types of lies….Lies, damn lies and statistics
Fact is no coach GM or scout has Dlo over AR
teams want AR in any trade not Dlo
AR ran the offense and we reached the WCF, where Dlo was hunted and exposed by Bruce freakin Brown who hasn’t been heard of since. Dlo lost all his confidence and gave us nothing that series after having sporadic good games in previous series
AR is a way better player with a better motor, better competitive spirit and better attitude who isn’t emotionally unstable on and off the court.
- Sep 19, 2012
- 7,730
- 10,701
Just to clarify though my stance has always been that the only untouchables on the roster is Lebron and AD... I'm in favor of whatever deal can be made to upgrade the roster, and if there isn't a deal then they'll just have to work with the pieces that are available.
- Jul 29, 2012
- 4,735
- 5,520
AR objectively better asset than DLo: younger, significantly cheaper Contract, AR has positional flexibility (PG/SG), started showing improvement last year, with potential to continue to improve (DLo is 28 y/o and we know what he is).
Total cap is gonna be 140+ mill next year, getting a younger starter for 10% of your cap space is a win for any team.
With that being said, it’s hard to get back greater value trading AR, with AR making 14mil/year.
Total cap is gonna be 140+ mill next year, getting a younger starter for 10% of your cap space is a win for any team.
With that being said, it’s hard to get back greater value trading AR, with AR making 14mil/year.
- Sep 19, 2012
- 7,730
- 10,701
I think if (or when) Bron saw this clip he'd probably had the same response that Denzel had in Training Day... "You think you run ish here? You just live here" lol
Bottom line is this... yes DLo is a good pick and roll playmaker, but he's not better at doing it than Lebron.. So the moment when Lebron decides that's how he wants to play again the writing was kinda on the wall for DLo to either accept that shooter role or you can still be that lead ballhandler guy but it'll have to be with the second unit.
And of course Ham has to fall on the sword, so the media will leak reports about how players are upset w/ their roles and how they're being utilized... whatever, loser mentality. If you're on this roster and are all in on the goal of competing for a title, your mentality should be to sacrifice for the greater good of the team...that's all that matters. I don't have a problem with being upset about coming off the bench, I think as a competitor that's probably something you should never want LESS minutes or a SMALLER role.
