let this thread die (NYK)

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Fields is not the worst player in the L.

I can see him going somewhere else and flourishing even if it's because of the system.
 
I tend to agree with MaxElite that its the coaching more than the players.

Yes Amar'e and Melo are similar players but there are 2 sides of the floor on offense.

We could torture opponents if we had creative offensive schemes. Have Melo light it up from one side of the floor then STAT knock down midrange shots from the other side. Then switch baseline or off the pick and roll. Defenses would constantly be off balance all types of space would open up. When we swing it around the perimeter we do get some great shots. Thats when you see Landry/Bill and the role players knocking down good 3s or driving for easy attempts. Thats how you get the most of your role players. But thats few and far between with this 7 seconds or less nonsense...aka TD wildly jacking up 20+ shots a game. 

There was a play in the first quarter yesterday that finished up with Chandler passing it off to Amar'e for an easy slam. That should be all day or vice verse, Amar'e to Chandler....but we don't run anything out of the post except Melo isolations. You can't leave STAT or Chandler alone in the post, but you have to get the ball into the post for that to matter. We have a great frontline and a coach who refuses to use it.

What we are looking at as bad roster, another coach would have clicking on all cylinders.

While its true we don't have a good post entry passer, we also don't swing the ball enough ( shown in our lackluster assists totals).

And as far as defense, that's all about effort and basic basketball...that comes straight from the attitude of the head coach. We can't just bring in Tyson and think everything is gonna change. Thats gotta come from the top.

Did y'all see the post game last night?...the first thing Pringles did was laugh saying that "well, at least the offense is good...". Its clear dude doesn't give a f_ about the other side of the floor and hes not really that good on the offensive end either.

All players have bad habits, Kobe, LeBron, Durant...you name em but if your coach doesn't have the balls to set them straight they will never improve in those areas.
 
I've been saying it for years....New York City is the Mecca of basketball...and our style of play and city culture revolves around good point guard play and tough nosed defense.

Our PG sucks and our coach doesn't have defense in his heart, until those 2 things change, we will continue to crash and burn.

Chicago may be our mortal enemies but they got this one completely right.
 
Interesting tidbit about the loss against Toronto.
 As bad as things look for the Knicks, a positive sign emerged from their back-to-back clunkers against the Raptors and Bobcats. On their final offensive possession of the Toronto loss, Anthony missed a 3-pointer and told everyone afterward that the play called for him to go for a tie with a quick 3. This made no sense when 17 seconds allowed plenty of time to go for a quick two and foul. Sure enough, sources say that's what the play D'Antoni drew up actuallydid call for Anthony to do, but point guard Toney Douglas ran the play wrong. Douglas was supposed to split Anthony and Chandler, causing defensive confusion and allowing Chandler to set a screen for Anthony, who would either pass to Chandler for a dunk, drive to the basket or take a 3-pointer as a last resort. Instead, Douglas ran to the corner, botching the timing and the spacing for Chandler's screen-and-roll. Anthony, exhausted at that point and positioned behind the 3-point line with no screener, had no choice but to launch the errant 3. So what's positive about this? Instead of throwing Douglas under the bus, Anthony covered for him and took the blame himself. The negative is that Douglas' mistakes only continue to underscore the Knicks' need for a point guard to orchestrate their offense, which would allow Douglas to occupy his ideal role as a scorer off the bench -- and off the ball.
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Link

Obviously a negative that Douglas botched the play, but it does explain that play and at the very least Melo didn't throw his teammate under the bus.

Desperate for positives
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Originally Posted by airmaxpenny1

Originally Posted by MaxElite

I mean whats the difference between Ronnie Brewer and Fields? Or CJ Watson and Douglas? Or Jeffries and Joel Anthony?
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Aside from CJ Watson and Douglas there is actually a rather huge difference with all of those.

Fields might be the worst player in the league.  I knew he was a fraud since last year only did well cause of the pace we played.  When your SG's best attribute is rebounding...well there is something wrong there.
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ain't gonna win no close game when the knicks shot selection is straight doo doo and they continue to play non existent D. they dont run any damn plays man. 1 quick screen and roll and then either drive and dish or pullup/force it, that's how people at the Y play, its sickening. D'antoni has this terrible offense that isn't fit for melo,amare, or chandler. these are halfcourt set kinda guys. it doesn't take a genius figure that out. Run some plays and work the ball around. .done venting
 
If the Knicks keep struggling, the focus will spread from the coaching to the roster, and sources advise not to be surprised if the notion of a possible deal sending Amar'e Stoudemire to Orlando for Howard gains traction. If the Magic opt to convert Howard into a superstar of reasonably comparable stature, they could do a lot worse than selling Stoudemire -- a central Florida native -- to their restless fan base. The biggest issue would be Stoudemire's uninsurable knees, but there is risk involved in every scenario Orlando will be presented with between now and March 15. From the Knicks' standpoint, such an arrangement would break up the ill-fitting offensive combo of Stoudemire and Anthony and allow the versatile Chandler to move to the power forward spot, where he'd be a terror as a weak-side shot blocker and in Stoudemire's spot as the roll man in D'Antoni's pick-and-roll offense. A deeper question exists in whether Madison Square Garden chairman James Dolan would sign off on trading Stoudemire, who was the only star willing to commit to the Knicks and embrace the challenges of New York in July 2010. For the aforementioned reasons, sources say it's plausible but unlikely that the Knicks and Orlando would be able to get any such talks off the ground. For one thing, it makes too much sense.
Don't see it happening. Better defensive presence in the paint, other players stills suck.
As bad as things look for the Knicks, a positive sign emerged from their back-to-back clunkers against the Raptors and Bobcats. On their final offensive possession of the Toronto loss, Anthony missed a 3-pointer and told everyone afterward that the play called for him to go for a tie with a quick 3. This made no sense when 17 seconds allowed plenty of time to go for a quick two and foul. Sure enough, sources say that's what the play D'Antoni drew up actually did call for Anthony to do, but point guard Toney Douglas ran the play wrong. Douglas was supposed to split Anthony and Chandler, causing defensive confusion and allowing Chandler to set a screen for Anthony, who would either pass to Chandler for a dunk, drive to the basket or take a 3-pointer as a last resort. Instead, Douglas ran to the corner, botching the timing and the spacing for Chandler's screen-and-roll. Anthony, exhausted at that point and positioned behind the 3-point line with no screener, had no choice but to launch the errant 3. So what's positive about this? Instead of throwing Douglas under the bus, Anthony covered for him and took the blame himself. The negative is that Douglas' mistakes only continue to underscore the Knicks' need for a point guard to orchestrate their offense, which would allow Douglas to occupy his ideal role as a scorer off the bench -- and off the ball

Oh.
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Originally Posted by LovesIt

Lol. So now Amare was never good and Melo is overrated?
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I know a lot of us are a bunch of disgruntled Knicks fans right now but plz just step away from the computer for a bit.
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Word...
 
Yeah, I watch the Blazers thinking that's somewhat the team we should've/could've had. Good pg, uptempo offense, all-star PF, rebounding C, 6th man that's a 3rd option and can create/penetrate.

Feeling salty watching Crawford work the Lakers.
 
It seems unfair to assume this squad would be better w/o Melo and with Gallo/Wil/Felton...Yeah, that's a solid team but Gallo and Wil were in D'Antoni's system for awhile when Amar'e arrived..Not to mention, Amar'e played years under D'Antoni as well..Felton took like 20 games to fit into the system..Wasn't the team like 5-8 to start the season last year and people were saying Felton was buns? Let's not get ahead of ourselves now..Melo played under the same coach (Karl) for his entire career so of course he's still adjusting..Plus, the majority of the role players on this team are really young and are adjusting to playing with 2 players like Amar'e n Melo



Also, the lineups keep changing game in n game out because of injuries..First game, Jeffries n Shump came off the bench then they both get injured..So then Jorts comes off the bench to backup Amar'e..Then Amar'e gets hurt so Jorts has to start 2 games...Then Amar'e comes back n Jorts basically gets no minutes and Shump comes off the bench for a big part of the game..Then Jeffries is gonna return, and eventually Davis will become a starter..This team has a lot of adjustments to make..The Mavs are also struggling because they changed around a lot of pieces. Nobody comes out the gate with a bunch of new players and goes 10-0 to start the season
 
Originally Posted by Cyber Smoke

Fatboy Felton lookin like a beast out there vs. LA
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I miss the way he used to push the tempo
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Very solid player

  
 
Originally Posted by Big J 33

Originally Posted by MaxElite

Coaching makes the role players better. People say the roster is garbage, so how is Chicago so successful? Their roster is filled with role players. It's about putting role players in positions to succeed and contribute. D'Antoni can't do that unless you're a 3 point shooting big man. It's annoying.
 
The main problem is coaching. They don't enforce rebounding or defense and so no one is held accountable for it. All a reflection of the coach.
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All of their starters deserve to be starters, and a few of their bench players would start on other teams. Their role players actually have roles that they're good at. I'm not making excuses for D'Antoni, but part of the blame needs to be put on our owner and GMs. One of the risks of making the Melo deal was pledging so much of your cap to two players, which makes signing these role players harder. 
A lot of people assumed "the players will be lining up to play for us", yeah well that didn't really work out.
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I don't know how you can call Dantoni bad ith role player when he's gotten the most out of them is entire career... The last Knicks team was full of former role players that looked like stars (Felton, fe).The problem is the Knicks' role playing talent s absolutely abysmal, horrible, bottom of the league nets-starting-lineup status. Even role players need talent.m You compare them to the bulls?.. Uhhh the difference there is talent. Even role players can e good nd bad.
 
Chicago may be a logical landing place for Dwight Howard. With fellow Adidas superstar Derrick Rose a member of the Bulls, and Joakim Noah a defensive big man who could be sent to Orlando in a trade, Howard could wind up joining Rose. 

Adidas would be delighted with that turn events, as the Nike rival ironically locks down the big Chicago market that Michael Jordan once ruled.

"They'd love to corner those two markets," said a person connected to the sneaker industry. "They'd be in heaven, I can tell you that."

A report in December from Adrian Wojnarowski countered that Adidas would prefer not to have their two big stars in the same market.

The Knicks could also emerge as a potential spot for Howard.

Ken Berger not to be surprised if a trade sending Amar'e Stoudemire back to his native central Florida for Howard begins to gain traction.  Stoudemire's uninsurable knees and James Dolan's willingness to sign off on a trade parting with the All-Star forward are seen as the two biggest obstacles to such a deal.  It could also be that the Knicks would have to include Tyson Chandler in any such discussion with the Magic.
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I don't like Dwight Howard but at this point I would definitely welcome trading STAT for him.
Not looking forward to anymore trade rumors and media drama though. I just want us to play better right now.
 
We'll win tonight. They'll get it together....the sooner the better with this short season. I don't want to see this team trying to dig themselves out of a hole when the playoff race gets really tight.
 
my stomach hurts
Opening Tip: Tyson Chandler's impact
January, 6, 2012
By Jared Zwerling
Every morning throughout the season, ESPNNewYork.com will tackle a burning question about the Knicks in our "Opening Tip."

Today's Burning Question: How much of an impact is Tyson Chandler really making?

In a point guard-heavy league, it makes all the difference to find that one game-changing center. Tyson Chandler was that for the NBA champion Mavericks last year.

So when the Knicks had a chance to get a player who could help change the tune of two of their worst categories, defensive and rebounding, it was understandable why Chauncey Billups was let go.

But the Knicks can't thank the amnesty clause just yet.

While Chandler's averages are on their way up -- they currently stand at 11.0 points, 6.7 rebounds and 2.2 blocks -- he hasn't had an overall influence on the Knicks. Not only has the team performed better on defense when Chandler is not in the game, but he's had a negative impression on their offense, too. That can be assessed by looking at the team's offensive and defensive ratings (points allowed per 100 possessions) with Chandler on and off the court.

Knicks With And Without Tyson Chandler

[table][tr][td]
[/td][td]On Court[/td][td]Off Court[/td][/tr][tr][td]Offensive Rating*[/td][td]100.5[/td][td]102.0[/td][/tr][tr][td]
Defensive Rating*
[/td][td]
104.8
[/td][td]
101.1
[/td][/tr][/table]*Offensive/defensive rating: team points scored/allowed per 100 possessions

Source: Justin Havens from ESPN Stats & Info

From a broader perspective, the Knicks overall numbers have not improved either. Two areas in which you would expect Chandler to have a significant impact would include points allowed and rebounding rate. The Knicks have not improved, relative to the league, in either of those categories. The team has allowed 3.7 more points per 100 possessions with Chandler on the court and have scored 1.5 more points per 100 possessions with him off the court.

Knicks Ranks Last Two Seasons

[table][tr][td]
[/td][td]2010-11[/td][td]2011-12[/td][/tr][tr][td]Defensive Efficiency[/td][td]21st[/td][td]23rd[/td][/tr][tr][td]Rebounding Rate[/td][td]28th[/td][td]28th[/td][/tr][/table]
*The team is 1-4 in their last five games

Chandler was also brought in for his vocal leadership, which he displayed in Dallas. But after the Knicks watched film of their defensive collapse against the Bobcats Wednesday night, Carmelo Anthony said there wasn't any verbalizing going on. Chandler needs to be the anchor of this team initiative.

"The thing that kept coming back was communication," Melo said. "We weren't talking. We weren't acting, we were reacting. ... You could look at guys' faces and see that they're thinking too much. It's just a matter of us just loosening up."

One thing all the players have agreed on is that Chandler has improved the spacing on the court. Guys are feeling more open on the perimeter -- they're just not knocking the threes down yet -- and they're finding that passing lanes to the basket are becoming more accessible. Case in point: In the early part of the first quarter versus Charlotte, the Knicks found Chandler rolling to the basket three times and Amare Stoudemire for another. They combined for four dunks in only five minutes.

Of course, it's still very early in the shortened season. In any other year, the Knicks would be starting for real now. But tonight, there are no excuses. They're playing the winless 0-6 Wizards, and Chandler needs to stay out of foul trouble and have a bigger impact on both sides of the ball.
Link

I know I know 'chemistry' ... Carlisle+Casey > Pringles+Browless

we are winning tonight.
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Originally Posted by Cyber Smoke

Stoudemire , Fields, and Chandler for Dwight and Hedo. Otis Smith please respond.
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*insert full government*

HELL NO!

Hedo is washed up and his contract is the worst.

Shump should come off the bench other wise we'd have to rely on Jeffries.
 
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